Clarify the Doctors can't use guns rule.

[Sadokist]

I'm in favor of a Doctor being able to pick up a gun, fire it a few times, but have it coded so that there is a 4% chance of the doctor(civilian) getting knocked out, dropping the gun, or getting random major brute to the head/chest with each shot fired due to recoil they do not know how to compensate.

that actually sounds like a really cool idea :3

[KeyWii]

I'm in favor of a Doctor being able to pick up a gun, fire it a few times, but have it coded so that there is a 4% chance of the doctor(civilian) getting knocked out, dropping the gun, or getting random major brute to the head/chest with each shot fired due to recoil they do not know how to compensate.

Jeez, just have it randomly explode in their hands while you're at it.

[Sadokist]

Jeez, just have it randomly explode in their hands while you're at it.

that sounds even better

[monkeysfist101]

I'm in favor of a Doctor being able to pick up a gun, fire it a few times, but have it coded so that there is a 4% chance of the doctor(civilian) getting knocked out, dropping the gun, or getting random major brute to the head/chest with each shot fired due to recoil they do not know how to compensate.

I'd be okay for this on a weapon to weapon basis.
As far as recoil goes:
Most modern assault rifles have negligible recoil.
Most adults can handle the recoil of a .45 pistol and 12 gauge shotgun.
It is difficult to control a 9mm submachinegun and a .44 magnum for an untrained adult.
It is dangerous to use any of the specialist weapons without proper training.

[Wickedtemp]

Recoil isn't likely going to be a problem. Teenagers can handle a .45 and a 12 gauge. Doctors won't really be able to use a shotgun anyways because of the inability to carry too many extra shells. That leaves the pistol.

[SkyeAuroline]

Suggestion, hopefully viable.

* Pistols are free game. Both the .44 and the M4A3. Anyone aboard the ship is allowed to carry/use one in case of emergency (see: boarding, ongoing rioting, etc), barring survivors unless the CO/XO/someone gives them the clear for it.
* Each job (as of when the player joins the game) is capped on certain weapons they can use properly, to simulate training. With jobs that don't qualify for a given weapon, dispersion/spread/term of choice is increased significantly (100% increase might be too severe, but I'll leave the details to their later implementation or lack thereof). Attachments can mitigate this to an extent, but someone without training will always be significantly less accurate than someone who has it.
* I'd consider Vrai's low chance of brute damage (not knocking out or dropping the gun) for shotguns only, but that's because I admittedly near broke my shoulder the first time I shot one from not holding it properly. Rifles are negligible; the recoil won't kill you off anything that we have.

As far as per-job qualifications go, I'd say the bridge crew and the doctors should likely be limited to pistols only, engineers as well but possibly throwing shotguns in there too. Non-specialists aren't qualified for the specialist weapons. Barring the flamethrower, since it's just a reskin of the base flamethrower, and I don't know how you'd model accuracy there. Submachine guns, you could give to the non-combat classes as well if you wanted. They're 9mm and fairly solid, they can be shot pretty easy. Or maybe give them a reduced penalty to unqualified people compared to assault rifles.


Discuss?

[Wickedtemp]

There's really no reason to make some special nerf for medical crew or anything. It REALLY is as simple as changing the rule to "Doctors are allowed an M4A3 Service Pistol if the Sulaco is under direct threat. Having a weapon before this point will result in a job-ban."

This is all that needs to be done.

[SkyeAuroline]

There's really no reason to make some special nerf for medical crew or anything. It REALLY is as simple as changing the rule to "Doctors are allowed an M4A3 Service Pistol if the Sulaco is under direct threat. Having a weapon before this point will result in a job-ban."

This is all that needs to be done.

While I agree, the fact this hasn't concluded already is pretty telling that it's not going to be that simple. So if a gameplay nerf needs to be attached, I suggested the simplest and least negative one I could think of.

[Wickedtemp]

While I agree, the fact this hasn't concluded already is pretty telling that it's not going to be that simple. So if a gameplay nerf needs to be attached, I suggested the simplest and least negative one I could think of.

The only issue is that some of the Staff all think that, as soon as this rule change would be implemented, every doctor will drop their medical equipment and go fight aliens. One of the problems with that line of thinking is that, a doctor doing so would be breaking the rules...which happens to begin with... The doctors that would break the rules aren't going to care what the rules say. They're not going to care if the rules are "NO GUNS EVER NOT EVEN ONCE, EVEN IF IT'S TO SAVE HUMANITY!" like they currently are, or "If your life is threatened, fight back." they're going to break them either way. That's what Staff neglects to see.

So, all we can really do is continue to make threads about it. This has got to be at least the third one addressing this topic because it's just a dumb rule and it leads to medbay getting absolutely slaughtered. The times doctors have broken the rules and used weaponry to defend, at least the rounds I've been there for, it's all been fun. Some real cool stuff going on, trying to protect the patients. Course, that gets ignored...

[Wesmas]

I have been playing medical a fair bit the last week. I have had several rounds where a single runner comes in through the vent or ladder and atacks. Even if I can avoid getting killed instantly, I have no way to call for help because tying and running are nearly impossible to do at the same time. The ladder which goes down doesnt help, because it gives aliens an easy route into the squishiest bit of the upper deck.

[Wickedtemp]

I have been playing medical a fair bit the last week. I have had several rounds where a single runner comes in through the vent or ladder and atacks. Even if I can avoid getting killed instantly, I have no way to call for help because tying and running are nearly impossible to do at the same time. The ladder which goes down doesnt help, because it gives aliens an easy route into the squishiest bit of the upper deck.

It's one reason why I stopped playing medical. The moment aliens board, you're almost useless. Medbay gets overrun and most of the time the other doctors didn't know they should've stocked up their medical belt with USEFUL stuff instead of inaprovaline. So they're useless without the vendors. Normally it tends to be me being the only doctor who actually has any useful stuff on them, but then a solo xeno decaps me because "lel hippo oath makes u a pussy"

[Derpislav]

I don't have a problem with doctors not being allowed sidearms - at the point in the round when they would need it, the floor is guns - just lean down and pick one that you fancy.

But that sinking feeling when you're treating several wounded in medbay when aliens board, they're all too unstable to evacuate, briefing ladders are already swarming with ravagers, and you see a runner pop up from the vents/ladder... And you can't even pick up one of the bazilion guns you're drowning in to try to scare it away.

[Jack McIntyre]

I like the idea of doctors having sidearms, pistols should be fine for a doctor, however that being said I also agree with apop's side of the argument because I remember coming onto the server and I was told to check out medbay. A doctor had left a medbay full of wounded marines to go grab a pistol from the marine prep and there were no other medical staff in medbay. From seeing that I kinda of feel like the medical staff have to earn the right to carry a pistol. Until they prove that they will always put their patient first over going to fight aliens, kinda of defeats the purpose of allowing them guns if they are going to go straight into the fight because they want to try and get kills. If your in medbay your job is to save lives and keep them in the fight, you don't get to have a kill count that round . Your priority is to keep the marines up even if you feel the xenos circling medbay, you have to count on the guys you treating to defend you, the person basically keeping them in the fight and breathing alive.

Yes it sucks, but from players abusing any rights to carry as a doctor to ignore their job, sort of feels like they can just grab one from a dying marine if it were really required to save a patient.

[Wesmas]

Yes it sucks, but from players abusing any rights to carry as a doctor to ignore their job, sort of feels like they can just grab one from a dying marine if it were really required to save a patient.

Exept you cant. Using a gun as a doctor at any time gets you frozen by admins. Regardless of where you, who needs help and how serious the danger is. There was a point where three doctors, pne being me, were on an escape pod. The moment one used an SMG to try and hold the aliens off, even though it would have made no difference to our deaths or the alien victory, the doctor was frozen. I am not saying doctors should be given guns, but not being allowed to use them when there is nobody else to defend you, nothing else you should be doing and no chance of you being able to actualy kill off the aliens seems weird.
I know there is this fear that people will abuse it, but admins have the power and the right to stop this as it happens. Please, just give us the right to use what we can grab from the floor. Job ban the ones who cant cope with the fact we shouldnt atack as doctors, but give those of us who want to operate on people in peace the ability to do something, because just running in circles feels like a cartoon, not how someone would be likely to react to an atack.

[HalfdeadKiller]

I was the doctor who fired the SMG with two extra mags that I grabbed and left on the pod floor, in case we were attacked in the pod due to most of the marines dieing and comms breaking. Upon firing about 5-7 shots at the aliens charging the pod, I was sleep-verbed. Do note there were ~3 doctors in the pod, and I grabbed only ONE smg with TWO extra clips of ammo. It wasn't like I grabbed rifles for everyone to turn the doctors into marines. It was a SMG and limited ammo, to try and defend ourselves since we had no idea where marines were and the pods were launching.

[apophis775]

The problem was, that doctors were "stockpiling" weapons. Several rounds in a row, I saw many weapons hidden INSIDE lockers/fireclosets in medbay, with the intention of using them to defend medbay later.

I will give you that, I am thinking about changing to allowing pistols, but here's the thing. Where is the doctor going to put the pistol? Are they going to dump medical equipment for a gun and ammo?

A "good" doctor should be equipped with the following:

Belt: Combat Lifesaver BElt
Backpack: 1 of each medkit, 1 defibulator
Pockets: Syringe, Health Scanner
Suit Pockets: Bottle of Spaceecillin (for infections), spare bottle of Tramadol or Oxycodone pills (for treating pain while performing triage)


That setup, will allow you to treat MANY marines and keep people stable nearly forever.

[HalfdeadKiller]

You put the pistol and a single clip of ammo in your backpack then. As a doctor I've never filled my backpack. And I don't really see the point in carrying one of every medkit. Those are in storage for storage. The vendors and sleepers should sustain you for as long as power is up. If power goes down, you can then go into the storage room and use those supplies.

[monkeysfist101]

Like I suggested earlier, Apop, put a weapons locker in medbay that unlocks when the shit hits the fan.

[Wickedtemp]

The problem was, that doctors were "stockpiling" weapons. Several rounds in a row, I saw many weapons hidden INSIDE lockers/fireclosets in medbay, with the intention of using them to defend medbay later.

I will give you that, I am thinking about changing to allowing pistols, but here's the thing. Where is the doctor going to put the pistol? Are they going to dump medical equipment for a gun and ammo?

A "good" doctor should be equipped with the following:

Belt: Combat Lifesaver BElt
Backpack: 1 of each medkit, 1 defibulator
Pockets: Syringe, Health Scanner
Suit Pockets: Bottle of Spaceecillin (for infections), spare bottle of Tramadol or Oxycodone pills (for treating pain while performing triage)


That setup, will allow you to treat MANY marines and keep people stable nearly forever.

Backpack. When my belt is fully stocked, I'll normally carry a kit filled with Quick-Clot, splints, and maybe an oxygen first aid kit because that tends to be needed more than the others. Toxins generally aren't a problem, burns are a bit more serious, brute can be healed with bicard as long as there's no bleeding cut, and in that case my belt has an advanced trauma kit just for the occasion. As a doctor I've been able to carry a sidearm and one extra clip without too much trouble. I don't normally carry defibs with me unless I'm evacuating medbay and have time to grab one, there's no real need to have one on-hand when there's a cloning station nearby.

As for holding more chems... Syringe cases. Those things are SUPER useful and I hardly see them used. Just take out the useless inaprovaline they come with and fill them up with bicard, KeloDerm, Tramadol, Dexalin Plus, Dylovene, and then have a burn kit and a trauma kit in a standard medical belt. Done. Peridraxon pill bottle goes in suit storage, syringes in labcoats, tricord hypospray in pocket along with a health analyzer. Spaceacillin pills are normally put in my bag, or inside of the Quick-Clot kit I pack.

The only problem now is that the doctors would have to leave medbay in order to get guns... Maybe if there was a pistol/pistol ammo ONLY vendor in the medbay prep area that would unlock once the Queen accesses the shuttle console? I would put more than five pistols in it, with five or so extra cilps. Maybe helmets as well.

EDIT: As for the vendor, again, only accessible once the Queen uses the shuttle panel, like how marines weren't able to build anything in the hangar until that happened. If somebody finds a loophole in that or something, I'd recommend just a straight up perma-ban unless there's a REALLY DAMN GOOD REASON, like they're facing imminent death or some shit. Also, ID locking it to doctors/BO/CO might be a good idea so MP doesn't waltz in and take all the guns for the lulz.

[Wesmas]

The idea of an alert based dispencer for pistols and armor in medical makes sense to me. I would say that at code red or queen shuttle message it unlocks.
As for the medical layout stuffs, I reguarly have 1 spare slot in my bag. That might not be much, but its enough to at least deter something from comming at you.

[coroneljones]

The rule is to stop doctors from getting a weapon and carrying it on them at all times i belive,they can USE them in desperate times when hes alone,but not carry it on them all the time,they should focus on healing not using weaponry and joining the firing lines
Atleast thats how i see it
TL;DR-Use guns from the floor or nearby,dont carry one around and start running,let the marines do the shooting

[apophis775]

I'm debating adjusting the rule anyway to possibly allow "Service pistols" (no revolver). Still though, the rule would say "in self defense or defense of wounded" to prevent front-line combat doctors.

[SkyeAuroline]

I'm debating adjusting the rule anyway to possibly allow "Service pistols" (no revolver). Still though, the rule would say "in self defense or defense of wounded" to prevent front-line combat doctors.

Perfectly fair, I'd support it. They'd have something, at least.

[Wesmas]

Sounds fair to me.

[HalfdeadKiller]

I am alright with that rule edit.