Medical Doctors & Firearms: Electric Boogaloo

[Steelpoint]

Kicking off yet another thread on the never ending controversial subject.

I'm only going to address a minor opposition I have to the current Medical Doctor weapon policy, in particular this one.

• * If you are unarmed and there is a rifle on the ground, you may pick it up and fire it at an alien who is IMMEDIATLY THREATENING YOUR LIFE. Once the alien is gone, you must drop the weapon and leave the area. Your job is MEDICAL not combat, fighting on the front-lines will result in a job-ban.

My opinions aside on when a Doctor can get access to a firearm, my main problem with this policy is what sane person would pick up a weapon in self defence, to fight off a lovecraftian horror, only to DROP their gun the moment said horror either dies or runs away?

There is absolutely no logical reason that anyone would follow this train of thought. I believe this restriction is simply unreasonable, I can fully understand any issues of MD's rushing off to fight, but I disagree that you want to essentially force them to disarm themselves in a obtuse manner, especially when the odds of you encountering a Xenomorph with a ready to fire rifle being at your feet is very small.

Therefor, I think the rule should be changed so that a Doctor is allowed to arm themselves with a weapon, any weapon, after the confirmation of the Sulaco is being boarded. I would imagine that high command would want all able bodied personal to be able to defend themselves, and speaking from experience after a long round its not that hard to pick up a discarded M41A or a M39 SMG someone left behind in the medbay. Oft it takes more effort to actually find a Pistol than a Rifle, why would you run across a open battlefield to get a pistol from the other side of the ship when there's a fully loaded rifle right in the middle of medbay?

Its just a bit of a pet peeve for me.

[Jeser]

I will never understand this rule and Apop failed to explain me logic of this rule.
Also


No logical reasons AT ALL to not carry pistol or this one for a doctor after aliens boarding Sulaco.

[ChickenShizNit8]

The Doctors on the Sulaco count as 'Civilian

PRETTY MUCH meaning they are like your average Doctor. They do get .45s and those aren't THAT bad, but eh...

[Steelpoint]

While off topic but rule wise Doctors can only get a Pistol if the ship is being boarded, otherwise its zip zilch nada zilch.

But I digress, I'm not talking about WHEN Doctors can get access to firearms (if I am I would say spawn Docs with a Holster with a Pistol inside it) but on the type of weapons they can take when they are being boarded.

As I said, I think if the ship is being boarded then MD's, as well as any "civilian" (on a military ship?) role, should be able to equip any weapon on hand to defend themselves.

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Imagine this scenario, your on a ship that is being boarded by lovecraftian horrors, many of which are head over feet taller than you, and with massive claws that could eviscerate you in one fell swoop. You rush down to the armoury, sweat pouring down you from a combination of the horror assaulting you and the rush to get here, only for some invisible hand forcing you to nab a flimsy Pistol over a Assault Rifle.............

Bloody Ripley proved sufficiently adept with a Pulse Rifle with bare all training, your telling me people stationed, long term, on a MILITARY SHIP, have no idea how to wield a gun. Please explain what mental gymnastics one must go through to not want to take the most effective weapon you can get to defend yourself.

It's like your being asked to crack open a crate, and you take a pocket knife over a crowbar. Sure the pocket knife could eventually get the job done, but there is no logical reason to take the knife over the far superior crowbar.

[Jeser]

While off topic but rule wise Doctors can only get a Pistol if the ship is being boarded, otherwise its zip zilch nada zilch.

But I digress, I'm not talking about WHEN Doctors can get access to firearms (if I am I would say spawn Docs with a Holster with a Pistol inside it) but on the type of weapons they can take when they are being boarded.

As I said, I think if the ship is being boarded then MD's, as well as any "civilian" (on a military ship?) role, should be able to equip any weapon on hand to defend themselves.

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Imagine this scenario, your on a ship that is being boarded by lovecraftian horrors, many of which are head over feet taller than you, and with massive claws that could eviscerate you in one fell swoop. You rush down to the armoury, sweat pouring down you from a combination of the horror assaulting you and the rush to get here, only for some invisible hand forcing you to nab a flimsy Pistol over a Assault Rifle.............

Bloody Ripley proved sufficiently adept with a Pulse Rifle with bare all training, your telling me people stationed, long term, on a MILITARY SHIP, have no idea how to wield a gun?

I think, M41a is a bit too much, but SMGs should be permitted to carry after boarding, that's for sure.

[Nubs]

Oh god not this argument again!

Since i play a shitload of doctor, let me tell you that when aliens board i'm so busy most of the time i don't even remember to pick up a .45.. If i do have a pistol i'm usually arms deep in the chest of a wounded marine when the xenos appear. I wouldn't carry a rifle, cause i need hands free and would have nowhere to put it, and smgs don't fit in backpacks anymore.

[Wesmas]

Adding a vendor with a little bit of supplies in medical would help. Armor, helmet, whatever guns we are allowed and some spare ammo. Lock it so it cannot be opened unless code blue/red, depending on staff choice, and make it so it unlocks if the queen uses the console.

[Jen_Llama]

Surgical handgun locker.

[Jeser]

Adding a vendor with a little bit of supplies in medical would help. Armor, helmet, whatever guns we are allowed and some spare ammo. Lock it so it cannot be opened unless code blue/red, depending on staff choice, and make it so it unlocks if the queen uses the console.

Actually, pretty good idea.

[Arachnidnexus]

Letting anyone use any weapon when aliens board is just gonna lead to powergaming. "Of course as a doctor I'm training in the smartgun. Because aliens boarded, that's why." Reminds me of when doctors would hoard rifles and SMGs in fire closets "just in case."

[Releasing]

I'm perfectly okay with how the doctors with guns rule is handled right now. I wouldn't want to see some doctor running around with a rifle or shotgun, that would just make me think 'they should of signed on as marines'. Pistols are just enough for doctors, and they can enlist marines to protect them while they operate on the marines. And honestly, as someone said before, I'm usually much too busy to even think about picking up a weapon when aliens board.

If you want to fight, join as a marine.

[Lorenz Artz]

Having tried playing as a Doctor over the past few days for the first time, I've come to understand that as a Doctor, there is really no need for weaponry to be present in the Medbay unless the Aliens board the Sulaco in large numbers. However, the moment they do so, the Medbay becomes one of the prefered areas for them to climb upstairs and more often than not, massacre the Medical Staff and patients since marines very rarely go there to defend them.

As such, I find the following two proposals to help improve roleplay without giving any large advantage to the Marines:

- Either place a vendor in the Medbay with helmets and pistols that can only be used when a red alert is issued, or a locker inside the CMO's office with pistols that can only be dispensed if the Sulaco is boarded by large numbers of enemies.

A person may not know how to properly use a rifle and recharge it, but anyone is capable of using a pistol in self-defense, much more in a chaotic situation, such as the Sulaco being boarded.

[Wesmas]

Thinking about it, command needs to actualy station a squad in medical as soon as the hanger is lost. They could hold off the xenos, allowing doctors, patients and supplies to be evacuated, as well as slowing their advance into the top deck.

[Davidchan]

Its a military ship in a combat zone/combat mission. It makes no sense IC or OOC for personnel, civillian or military, to be unarmed during boarding action or in a combat mission while away from the ship.

The rule is nonsense. Far too many of the rules restrict player actions because of sloppy mechanics.

[RhMoore]

The whole idea of the "pistol only and "drop the gun" rules are so that we don't have rambo doctors running around.
It would be really bad if all of a sudden our doctors rushed off into the field and all the people in medbay who could've gotten surgery died.

It's sadly a necessary evil.

[Davidchan]

The whole idea of the "pistol only and "drop the gun" rules are so that we don't have rambo doctors running around.
It would be really bad if all of a sudden our doctors rushed off into the field and all the people in medbay who could've gotten surgery died.

It's sadly a necessary evil.

Doctors are already restricted to the sulaco and FOB in very special circumstances. Why they are civs is beyond me, every branch maintains its own medical corp from nurses to surgeons. The CL gets a gun too, so the doctors being told no despite being an actual target just encourages the meta to rush medbay or cargo instead of the bridge.

[Steelpoint]

Besides if you manage to crawl into surgery and ambush a Doctor it won't matter what gun they have, by the time they notice you, drop their surgical equipment and pull out a gun you'll already be all over them.

[Jeser]

And again:

I think, ALL non-combat personnel SHOULD be able to use SMGs when aliens boarded. That includes doctors. In last defence in brief, for example, if there are any doctors and aliens surrounded Brief and melting through every sides, everyone would grab some weapon and shoot at all sides. Even doctors. Even those who don't know how to shoot properly.

[Wickedtemp]

Adding a vendor with a little bit of supplies in medical would help. Armor, helmet, whatever guns we are allowed and some spare ammo. Lock it so it cannot be opened unless code blue/red, depending on staff choice, and make it so it unlocks if the queen uses the console.

I made this exact suggestion last time a thread like this popped up, I got a response of "Eh. It'd require coding." from some people so I assume it was ignored.

But yes, +1 to this.

[RadiantFlash]

I can understand why some doctors might be civilians, but the fact that the chief medical officer has access to the bridge, and is similar to the CE, but absolutely no authority in the command structure bothers me. As it is, you might as well just remove their bridge access, and call them, Head Civilian Doctor.

That said, Just having doctors with only pistols, is fine with me. They shouldn't be expecting to fight, and shouldn't really have to, if the MP's/marines are doing there job. The temporary use, makes sense to me, from a gameplay pespective

[Davidchan]

Besides if you manage to crawl into surgery and ambush a Doctor it won't matter what gun they have, by the time they notice you, drop their surgical equipment and pull out a gun you'll already be all over them.

Unless there is more than one doctor/researcher, which quite often is the case. VS unarmed opponents even a drone can take on the entire medical staff, if they had PDWs this wouldn't be the case.

Your entire argument is that in a game mode in which both sides must utterly destroy the other, that specific roles are forbidden from defending themselves even when locked in their assigned area. If drones or hivelords weren't allowed to carry facehuggers outside of the hive, people would lose their shit, but doctors not even being allowed to carry a weapon when it's very clear that hostiles have boarded the ship is asinine.

I can understand why some doctors might be civilians, but the fact that the chief medical officer has access to the bridge, and is similar to the CE, but absolutely no authority in the command structure bothers me. As it is, you might as well just remove their bridge access, and call them, Head Civilian Doctor.

Actually doctors not having authority over combat troops or operations is probably the one part about our Chain of Command that's actually accurate, everything else about the ranking system is broke but in a real world situation, Anyone outside the Operational unit (I.E. anyone but the CO/XO/BOs) would have 0 authority over the Marines unless it was directly related to their job (Medical personal declaring specific marines unfit for duty, MPs arresting UCMJ violatiors, Supply refusing unreasonable requests, ect...), aside from that if bridge crew was wiped out it would fall down to the SLs to organize the push back against the Xenos or decide if they should fall back and request reinforcements or retreat.

[RadiantFlash]

Actually doctors not having authority over combat troops or operations is probably the one part about our Chain of Command that's actually accurate, everything else about the ranking system is broke but in a real world situation, Anyone outside the Operational unit (I.E. anyone but the CO/XO/BOs) would have 0 authority over the Marines unless it was directly related to their job (Medical personal declaring specific marines unfit for duty, MPs arresting UCMJ violatiors, Supply refusing unreasonable requests, ect...), aside from that if bridge crew was wiped out it would fall down to the SLs to organize the push back against the Xenos or decide if they should fall back and request reinforcements or retreat.

I see what your saying on that point,
But still, the Chief medical officer should have SOME sort of authority. it's a bit odd to me, that a command staff wouldn't have more authority then a private marine.

[Davidchan]

The easiest way to describe it to someone without Military experience is Star Trek. McCoy and Crusher, from TOS and Gen were both 'bridge' staff in their own right, but never took command of the ship unless EVERYONE else who served on the bridge was incapable of doing so. But, as CMO both could confine the Captain or any other member of the ship regardless of rank due to medical reasons. So while their opinions and advice were often taken and considered by the CO or acting CO of the ship, they had no real authority outside of their medical bay.

In CM terms, If the CO/XO/BO and SLs were all out of commission, then it logically would fall to the RO/CE and CMO to decide what to do next, as their own responsibilities encompass the safety of the ship and crew. The RO (Ensign, why the fuck are marines using Navy ranks?) being above CMO in CoC makes no sense. A more accurate CoC would be CO>XO>BOs>CE>SLs>CMO>RO>Anyone left. But Apop likes the one we have so we are stuck with it.

[Steelpoint]

Yes except I'm 100% certain that both McCoy and Crusher both had access to, and carried, a personal fire arm.

[Stivan34]

The rule is stupid, You grab a rifle on the ground and shoot the alien with it and then drop it, You go somewhere and a alien finds you but you may not have the same luck...