Gameplay Discussion: Predators

[Boltersam]

Side note.

Preds have a sniper like hunting gun that fires the same plasma projectile which oftens confuses people into thinking its the plasma caster.

I haven't used it yet myself, but is it allowed for regular hunting, or emergencies similar to the Plasma Caster?

[Feweh]

I haven't used it yet myself, but is it allowed for regular hunting, or emergencies similar to the Plasma Caster?

Its a Sniper.
Mainly used for when your prey is hiding in a group of people.

[northcote4]

Its a Sniper.
Mainly used for when your prey is hiding in a group of people.

Seems kind of dishonourabu.

[Feweh]

Seems kind of dishonourabu.

Why would it be dishonourable?
Your target flees and hides within a Squad of Marines. Hes no longer granted honor and can be killed any means.
Technically speaking, you can kill him cloaked at that point if you really wanted to. (Generally avoided to reduce players crying)

Honor Code only applies to 1 vs 1 fights and mainly against your SPECIFIC target. If a Predator is simply roaming the map and a marine fires upon him for no reason hes not granted the honor code. Just because a marine comes along and wants to fight doesnt mean you HAVE to fight him UNLESS hes your target.

[northcote4]

Why would it be dishonourable?
Your target flees and hides within a Squad of Marines. Hes no longer granted honor and can be killed any means.
Technically speaking, you can kill him cloaked at that point if you really wanted to. (Generally avoided to reduce players crying)

Honor Code only applies to 1 vs 1 fights and mainly against your SPECIFIC target. If a Predator is simply roaming the map and a marine fires upon him for no reason hes not granted the honor code. Just because a marine comes along and wants to fight doesnt mean you HAVE to fight him UNLESS hes your target.

I suppose you have a fair point, with the retreating into a squad of marines. Though I disagree about the whole 'killing by any means (including cloak)' part. Cloak kills on designated prey go against the larger predator honour code, not just the subset for honour duelling, from what I can see.

But yeah, fair point. I guess it could be used honourably, then!

[Feweh]

I suppose you have a fair point, with the retreating into a squad of marines. Though I disagree about the whole 'killing by any means (including cloak)' part. Cloak kills on designated prey go against the larger predator honour code, not just the subset for honour duelling, from what I can see.

But yeah, fair point. I guess it could be used honourably, then!

Not at all, in the movies/comics/games Predators kill their targets cloaked all the time. The entire first movie had te Predator kill 75% of his targets cloaked and with a plasma caster. Remember he was thr one actively hunting the squad as they fled.

Hell have you seen the second predator movie? Its a fucking slaughter with the Predator cloaking and kill massive amounts of guys.

Just for CM weve balanced it out so Predators dont run around murderboning to shit. Its also why we have a whitelist and only have players with common sense playing.

[northcote4]

Not at all, in the movies/comics/games Predators kill their targets cloaked all the time. The entire first movie had te Predator kill 75% of his targets cloaked and with a plasma caster. Remember he was thr one actively hunting the squad as they fled.

Hell have you seen the second predator movie? Its a fucking slaughter with the Predator cloaking and kill massive amounts of guys.

Just for CM weve balanced it out so Predators dont run around murderboning to shit. Its also why we have a whitelist and only have players with common sense playing.

Oh, yes, yes! Sorry, in regard to the part about cloak-kills I was just referring strictly to the server rules and such.
Yes, as you say in the canon honour code, let the stealth-slaughter begin.

[Feweh]

Oh, yes, yes! Sorry, in regard to the part about cloak-kills I was just referring strictly to the server rules and such.
Yes, as you say in the canon honour code, let the stealth-slaughter begin.

Here's an example of him killing an entire "group" basically cloaked.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMAx6Cb6etE

Here's another with most deaths being plasma caster or cloaked kills.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zrw7D-YXlo0

But as I said, we didn't want Predators to aim for that direction in CM.
So you'll never see Predators freely doing what they are in the movies like the clips above.
(It happens, but rarely)

[northcote4]

Here's an example of him killing an entire "group" basically cloaked.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMAx6Cb6etE

Here's another with most deaths being plasma caster or cloaked kills.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zrw7D-YXlo0

But as I said, we didn't want Predators to aim for that direction in CM.
So you'll never see Predators freely doing what they are in the movies like the clips above.
(It happens, but rarely)

Oh for sure. I damn near know the movies like the back of my hand. For better or worse, in some cases.
(Though, on the topic of cloak kills, my personal favourites go to the wristblade kills from AvP)

[Steelpoint]

When I think of Predators I don't think of Predator #123253 hanging out with Marines as the Marines are forced to yet again act in the most illogical manner when confronted with a giant alien monster.

The Predator films would not have been great if the Predator spent most of the movie hanging out with the buff military dudes before occasionally shooting one of them.

My problem with some Predators is the fact they can ally with a faction in such a overt manner. They should be fighting anyone not helping everyone.

[northcote4]

When I think of Predators I don't think of Predator #123253 hanging out with Marines as the Marines are forced to yet again act in the most illogical manner when confronted with a giant alien monster.

The Predator films would not have been great if the Predator spent most of the movie hanging out with the buff military dudes before occasionally shooting one of them.

My problem with some Predators is the fact they can ally with a faction in such a overt manner. They should be fighting anyone not helping everyone.

I agree, Steel. Whenever I see marines just chilling with an uncloaked predator I skree internally.

[Nubs]

Yeah, yesterday during a low pop round we had a predator leading marines on an assault against the hive. It wa a marine major, of course.

[Tristan63]

The biggest issue I see with predators currently is how drastically they can stack the odds against a faction should they choose to, intentionally or unintentionally. For example, a few rounds ago a predator destroyed the engineering APC and severely damaged the wiring to turn off the lights. It was repairable, but due to constant xenomorph and predator harassment it was never repaired. Meaning that the entire colony had no lights. Then the predators went on to assault the FOB and blow massive holes in it and take out a few marines forcing the marines off planet pretty early in the round effectively giving the Xenomorphs free reign. Now if the Predators had shifted over to assaulting the Xenomorphs with the same force as they had attacked the marines, it might have played out very differently. However the predator players at that time had to leave, which is understandable, but gave the Xenomorphs an enormous advantage of choosing when to assault (They had managed to get something insane like 6 Crushers + other T3s at this point too).

I'm not saying that the actions the predators took above were necessarily in the wrong. But the way it can heavily skew game balance against a faction might need to be mitigated. Perhaps a "No attacking the FOB or the Main Hive" rules. Or no disabling critical systems with the plasma caster.

Normally we predators attack xenos first, giving YOU marine players the advantage. I myself normally never attack marines, A because they give me too much damn salt and im frankly not in the mood for being reprimanded of my pred rights because a salty marine player doesn't know the join xeno verb and B because when a Predator or a few of them decide the oomans are winning and should be targeted rather than Xenos, the marines blame the predators for their shortcomings. For instance if a Predator blows up a turret to get to its prey, 40+ marines shoot at it, so to deffend itself it has to fire its plasma weapon and run away. So the marine players use this situation to their advantage to Ahelp and complain that the predator is RDMing or some bullshit, which makes the admins agitated and leads to reports, and sometimes bans. But running when you are dripping blood and being followed by sweaty marines is hard, and the predator most likely dies. So in short if you attack marines as pred you are probably going to be hated and killed instantly unless you are the most robust motherfucker, or meet an actually good RPing marine.

[ShortTemperedLeprechaun]

Normally we predators attack xenos first, giving YOU marine players the advantage. I myself normally never attack marines, A because they give me too much damn salt and im frankly not in the mood for being reprimanded of my pred rights because a salty marine player doesn't know the join xeno verb and B because when a Predator or a few of them decide the oomans are winning and should be targeted rather than Xenos, the marines blame the predators for their shortcomings. For instance if a Predator blows up a turret to get to its prey, 40+ marines shoot at it, so to deffend itself it has to fire its plasma weapon and run away. So the marine players use this situation to their advantage to Ahelp and complain that the predator is RDMing or some bullshit, which makes the admins agitated and leads to reports, and sometimes bans. But running when you are dripping blood and being followed by sweaty marines is hard, and the predator most likely dies. So in short if you attack marines as pred you are probably going to be hated and killed instantly unless you are the most robust motherfucker, or meet an actually good RPing marine.

I'm actually an inverse of tristan in this aspect. I spend my time trying to set a mood for marines. They're on a dark and abandoned colony, which is scary as hell. Sadly, most marines don't act like this, so I try to ya know, make it a bit more immarsive by breaking stuff in their line of sight, throwing stuff near them, parroting them. I find it brings out a good role play aspect, even from some of the worst rp'ers in the community. I can't do this with xenos, because 99% of the time, it's either run, or jump me before I can try to interact.

[Boltersam]

So, I had an idea. Can an extra line be added to the honor code for prey, that Elites and above are worthy prey regardless of caste for Xenomorphs? I say this, because by all accounts, an Elite or Ancient Runner is worthy prey, and a difficult kill, but Young and Mature isn't even close to worthy.

It would help in clearing up the stance on Xenomorphs a bit, at the very least.

[northcote4]

So, I had an idea. Can an extra line be added to the honor code for prey, that Elites and above are worthy prey regardless of caste for Xenomorphs? I say this, because by all accounts, an Elite or Ancient Runner is worthy prey, and a difficult kill, but Young and Mature isn't even close to worthy.

It would help in clearing up the stance on Xenomorphs a bit, at the very least.

I always interpreted it as being up to the Pred's discretion.
A particularly un-robust pred might consider a notably robust mature-runner to be worthy prey.

But that's just my two cents. If there was a list designating specifically what is and isn't worthy prey, people might get extra salty.

[Boltersam]

I always interpreted it as being up to the Pred's discretion.
A particularly un-robust pred might consider a notably robust mature-runner to be worthy prey.

But that's just my two cents. If there was a list designating specifically what is and isn't worthy prey, people might get extra salty.

I'm not asking for a list, we all know that would be horrendous,
But, with the addition of the Upgrade system, even Sentinels and Runners that are Upgraded to Elite or Ancient, pose a serious threat, and there should be an exception made in the prey section of the honor code for upgraded Xenomorphs, to clear it up with non-whitelisted players as well as whitelisted.

[Imperaxum]

Had my first interaction with a Predator today on CM. Took a moment to stand still alone outside a dome, wondering which door to hack next - far behind the front lines, as the other squads assaulted over the river, and suddenly a Predator decloaks three paces away from me, instacrits me with a single blast of some sort, and then decaps me. Zero interaction, fun, or HUNT. Ten minutes of prep and deciding to spend my afternoon on CM and that's it, round over, GG, fuck you. I must say, I'm really not impressed with this. My first real unpleasant experience on Colonial Marines, and I've faced my share of hull breaches and pounce/hugger game overs.

[Toroic]

Had my first interaction with a Predator today on CM. Took a moment to stand still alone outside a dome, wondering which door to hack next - far behind the front lines, as the other squads assaulted over the river, and suddenly a Predator decloaks three paces away from me, instacrits me with a single blast of some sort, and then decaps me. Zero interaction, fun, or HUNT. Ten minutes of prep and deciding to spend my afternoon on CM and that's it, round over, GG, fuck you. I must say, I'm really not impressed with this. My first real unpleasant experience on Colonial Marines, and I've faced my share of hull breaches and pounce/hugger game overs.

That's because there's no standards about how preds will behave, just a vague honor code.

In this thread one pred admitted they just target xenos, another just targets marines, and they don't appear to have any duty to balance the round.

Preds are a neat idea that CM is better without.

[Feweh]

Had my first interaction with a Predator today on CM. Took a moment to stand still alone outside a dome, wondering which door to hack next - far behind the front lines, as the other squads assaulted over the river, and suddenly a Predator decloaks three paces away from me, instacrits me with a single blast of some sort, and then decaps me. Zero interaction, fun, or HUNT. Ten minutes of prep and deciding to spend my afternoon on CM and that's it, round over, GG, fuck you. I must say, I'm really not impressed with this. My first real unpleasant experience on Colonial Marines, and I've faced my share of hull breaches and pounce/hugger game overs.

Open a player report.
Also, the same thing will happen with a hunter.. so its not far off from current game mechanics. Pounce and hug you. The only difference is thats acceptable and Predators arent supposed to do that.

[Imperaxum]

Open a player report.
Also, the same thing will happen with a hunter.. so its not far off from current game mechanics. Pounce and hug you. The only difference is thats acceptable and Predators arent supposed to do that.

It was solved in-game, or at least resolved to the point where I don't feel any particular salt. Turns out the Predator was an admin, TR-Blackdragon, or something like that. Apparently he had stalked me as I walked around the science dome trying out the engineer class for the first time, hacking doors. I mean, at least I know who did it, and that there were marines sorta nearby. I'm still upset that there was no hunt, fight, no chance to fight back, but what's done is done. It was resolved a little further what I'm saying, but that's the meat of it. I still think that Predator instakilling are a whole different beast from Hunters - pounced/hugged, I went alone in an unsafe area, but I was in a safe area and it's quite a different experience to be shot into crit from a guy who decloaked a second earlier and then decapped. I'm not particularly upset with the admin anymore, but Predators... really don't sit well with me. My first experience with them was shitty, anyway.

[Felkvir]

I feel like these few preds now and then are giving the overall whitelisted population a bit of a bad reputation .. At least I know they have had that before.

[Feweh]

I feel like these few preds now and then are giving the overall whitelisted population a bit of a bad reputation .. At least I know they have had that before.

Actually the opposite, we've had less complaints regarding preds this time around than we did on the previous whitelist.

Selection is a lot more serious and takes way longer to get whitelisted. Which in the ends make the players whitelisted more inclined to take the role seriously.

Its not to say deadchat doesnt get salted up, but that'll never change.

[Felkvir]

Actually the opposite, we've had less complaints regarding preds this time around than we did on the previous whitelist.

Selection is a lot more serious and takes way longer to get whitelisted. Which in the ends make the players whitelisted more inclined to take the role seriously.

Its not to say deadchat doesnt get salted up, but that'll never change.

Eh ... Players before when I played took the role very seriously 99% of the time, even if it was horribly hyped. The only ones I can think of that really did not take the role seriously at times were a few /staff/ members..

[Feweh]

Eh ... Players before when I played took the role very seriously 99% of the time, even if it was horribly hyped. The only ones I can think of that really did not take the role seriously at times were a few /staff/ members..

Well from a actual technical aspect, we removed 4-5 Predator players on the previous list for breaking rules/being bad. This was from a list of about 15 I believe, which is a pretty shitty removal %.

Where as so far we've only had 1 serious issue with a Predator player who ended up quitting CM all together. They also made the Predators so it was kind of a slippery slope.