Gameplay Discussion: Predators

[MrJJJ]

If you complain about their armor,then you dont know about the new marine tactic of "AP rounds for everything"

If you think preds are harder to kill than an Elite queen,then you havent played pred

AP rounds don't do much against invinsible targets with plasma, and even then the armor is still quite well
And 10 machette hits STILL don't kill preds, but can kill a elite Queen rather easily if you hit, not even approaching a 10th hit, meanwhile preds can live quite easily, and are dodgy as hell...

[doodeeda]

You, my friend, are very very wrong. Many preds have been taken down by aliens, MANY. if its not 1v1 preds will ALWAYS lose thanks to spit spam and pounce spam and tacklespam. ive watched a pred survive all round for two spitters and a hunter to take him down.

What's silly to me is that when a mob of aliens takes down a stunlocked predator, they have to whale on it for so long with the predator taking so much punishment. Predators shouldn't have to fight more than one alien in order to have a fun challenge. There's little room for tense RP between an alien and a predator because the alien player knows he could die so easily and that he should just run away if he wants to have fun playing more. Or, get some more friends in order to mob the predator which does work, but why is that that necessary?

[ParadoxSpace]

What's silly to me is that when a mob of aliens takes down a stunlocked predator, they have to whale on it for so long with the predator taking so much punishment. Predators shouldn't have to fight more than one alien in order to have a fun challenge. There's little room for tense RP between an alien and a predator because the alien player knows he could die so easily and that he should just run away if he wants to have fun playing more. Or, get some more friends in order to mob the predator which does work, but why is that that necessary?

B18 armor is literally the same exact thing.

[coroneljones]

AP rounds don't do much against invinsible targets with plasma, and even then the armor is still quite well
And 10 machette hits STILL don't kill preds, but can kill a elite Queen rather easily if you hit, not even approaching a 10th hit, meanwhile preds can live quite easily, and are dodgy as hell...

AP rounds ignore armor....
And a machete blocks melee hits,and can knock out a pred,so theres that

[northcote4]

AP rounds ignore armor....

Is that really the case, though?

While they certainly do for marines, are exoskeleton deflections or 'your armor absorbs the blow!' not examples of the armour doing it's job?

[doodeeda]

B18 armor is literally the same exact thing.

It does remind me of B18 armor, but the predator is also very strong on attack and maneuverability as well. Not many alien players have a chance in my opinion 1v1.

[MrJJJ]

AP rounds ignore armor....
And a machete blocks melee hits,and can knock out a pred,so theres that

Uh no, AP rounds simply have better armor penetration.
It can knock out a pred for a few seconds from what i saw, and even then with those extra hits you can add, its still gonna be able to get up, and keep fighting, thats some bullshit right there.

[Steelpoint]

Predators should be hard mode.

Your a unblooded Predator, with only the bare essential equipment, off to hunt some of the most 'dangerous' game on a highly volatile war zone. Ranging from the elite of the USMC to the deadliest breed of Xenomorphs, from crack Mercenaries to desperate survivors.

A Predator player should face a monumental challenge, they must sweat blood and tears to fight against a entire company of well armed Human Soldiers and a hoard of the most dangerous breed of Xenomorphs this side of the galaxy.

If a Predator player succeeds in culminating a set number of skull points it should be seen as a triumph, something that would've taken a lot of time and skill to achieve. Not something they can do half asleep because they're armour and weapons offer them a near unstoppable advantage that one can only dream of getting in a standard round of SS13.

[Toroic]

Predators should be hard mode.

Your a unblooded Predator, with only the bare essential equipment, off to hunt some of the most 'dangerous' game on a highly volatile war zone. Ranging from the elite of the USMC to the deadliest breed of Xenomorphs, from crack Mercenaries to desperate survivors.

A Predator player should face a monumental challenge, they must sweat blood and tears to fight against a entire company of well armed Human Soldiers and a hoard of the most dangerous breed of Xenomorphs this side of the galaxy.

If a Predator player succeeds in culminating a set number of skull points it should be seen as a triumph, something that would've taken a lot of time and skill to achieve. Not something they can do half asleep because they're armour and weapons offer them a near unstoppable advantage that one can only dream of getting in a standard round of SS13.

In practice predators usually observe while invisible, metabuddy a little with friends or with marines, murder a rambo T3 and sit around a lot.

[ParadoxSpace]

Predators should be hard mode.

Your a unblooded Predator, with only the bare essential equipment, off to hunt some of the most 'dangerous' game on a highly volatile war zone. Ranging from the elite of the USMC to the deadliest breed of Xenomorphs, from crack Mercenaries to desperate survivors.

A Predator player should face a monumental challenge, they must sweat blood and tears to fight against a entire company of well armed Human Soldiers and a hoard of the most dangerous breed of Xenomorphs this side of the galaxy.

If a Predator player succeeds in culminating a set number of skull points it should be seen as a triumph, something that would've taken a lot of time and skill to achieve. Not something they can do half asleep because they're armour and weapons offer them a near unstoppable advantage that one can only dream of getting in a standard round of SS13.

I mean that really isn't what it should be.
Predators I'm sure aren't changing anytime soon except balance wise because an ancient alien can easily dunk them.

[Toroic]

I mean that really isn't what it should be.
Predators I'm sure aren't changing anytime soon except balance wise because an ancient alien can easily dunk them.

Ancient spitter, maybe. Generally though you shouldn't see ancient T3 and only see ancient T2 near the end of the game.

[Boltersam]

Ehhhh.

On the topic of toughness, bullets do a lot more to Predators than you think, is all I can say. Even non-AP rounds will cause broken bones and internal damage with a couple of shots, and AP rounds are worse, even if they do less damage, they still get inside more often, and can cause internal damage more easily, that Predators only have a difficult method to heal, that requires and extended period of time to work.

With machetes, you can keep hitting a Predator and it will knock them out, leaving them defenceless, if a marine keeps hitting the KO'd predator with the machete, it will kill them, there is no way for the Predator to defend themselves.

As for Aliens, spit keeps Predators down for quite a bit, even with their stun resistance. I estimate a Spitter could keep a Predator down indefinitely, allowing for other Aliens to slash it to death, and a Sentinel would be able to keep it down long enough to cause some damage, and if a Ravager gets in on it, the Predator is doomed.

As for the, "Make Predators very weak Unblooded", I mean no offence, but that's ridiculous. In fact, that objective system would make them try to kill people even more than at current times! Predators need that strength, because they use it to roleplay. But, if they're just weak punching bags, people will kill rather than roleplay.

Sure, Predators have raw power. But the thing is, you'll notice that the application does not require you to be robust, it requires you to be a good roleplayer. Do you want to know why?

Because, being a Predator isn't about being skilled enough to take down a Ravager with severely underpowered gear. It's about roleplaying, regardless of your skill level. At least, that's how I interpret it. Hell, I'm unrobust as fuck, but I showed with my application that I'm a good roleplayer. Going a little off track here, but that's the point. Without that raw power, I'd be killed a lot more than I am now, and I probably wouldn't have had any of the excellent moments I've had during predator rounds.

[Toroic]

Ehhhh.

On the topic of toughness, bullets do a lot more to Predators than you think, is all I can say. Even non-AP rounds will cause broken bones and internal damage with a couple of shots, and AP rounds are worse, even if they do less damage, they still get inside more often, and can cause internal damage more easily, that Predators only have a difficult method to heal, that requires and extended period of time to work.

With machetes, you can keep hitting a Predator and it will knock them out, leaving them defenceless, if a marine keeps hitting the KO'd predator with the machete, it will kill them, there is no way for the Predator to defend themselves.

As for Aliens, spit keeps Predators down for quite a bit, even with their stun resistance. I estimate a Spitter could keep a Predator down indefinitely, allowing for other Aliens to slash it to death, and a Sentinel would be able to keep it down long enough to cause some damage, and if a Ravager gets in on it, the Predator is doomed.

As for the, "Make Predators very weak Unblooded", I mean no offence, but that's ridiculous. In fact, that objective system would make them try to kill people even more than at current times! Predators need that strength, because they use it to roleplay. But, if they're just weak punching bags, people will kill rather than roleplay.

Sure, Predators have raw power. But the thing is, you'll notice that the application does not require you to be robust, it requires you to be a good roleplayer. Do you want to know why?

Because, being a Predator isn't about being skilled enough to take down a Ravager with severely underpowered gear. It's about roleplaying, regardless of your skill level. At least, that's how I interpret it. Hell, I'm unrobust as fuck, but I showed with my application that I'm a good roleplayer. Going a little off track here, but that's the point. Without that raw power, I'd be killed a lot more than I am now, and I probably wouldn't have had any of the excellent moments I've had during predator rounds.

Tbh, most of the RP I've seen from predators has been cringeworthy, metagamey, and godawful.

I've seen predators return heads for cloning, drag marines to safety from xenos while invisible, get revived by admins after going up to the sulaco, uncloaked on the dropship after metabuddying with a survivor to give them a gift.

As a xeno-only player I get annoyed when I see it is a pred round because I know that preds are going to camp the sandstone temple (just outside of one of the stronger hive locations) and there's a high potential that they will pick off T3 xenos.

For xenos, predators don't offer any RP potential because they have no ability to communicate, and the attitude (among players) is that xenos are cannon fodder with no personality, which isn't in line with the lore.

What I am sure of is that a predator will help the marines more than they help the xenos, and that ultimately they will end up delaying the round an hour or more. I've heard that marine players like predators, but from what I've observed and experienced their RP isn't any better than marines and they don't improve rounds.

[Boltersam]

Tbh, most of the RP I've seen from predators has been cringeworthy, metagamey, and godawful.

I've seen predators return heads for cloning, drag marines to safety from xenos while invisible, get revived by admins after going up to the sulaco, uncloaked on the dropship after metabuddying with a survivor to give them a gift.

As a xeno-only player I get annoyed when I see it is a pred round because I know that preds are going to camp the sandstone temple (just outside of one of the stronger hive locations) and there's a high potential that they will pick off T3 xenos.

For xenos, predators don't offer any RP potential because they have no ability to communicate, and the attitude (among players) is that xenos are cannon fodder with no personality, which isn't in line with the lore.

What I am sure of is that a predator will help the marines more than they help the xenos, and that ultimately they will end up delaying the round an hour or more. I've heard that marine players like predators, but from what I've observed and experienced their RP isn't any better than marines and they don't improve rounds.

Returning heads for cloning is allowed, I asked Feweh about returning the body of a marine killed dishonourably in an honor duel, and he said it's fine. As for the survivor friending, if the survivor can kill several Aliens with only scavenged firearms and no armour, they're worthy of notice from a Predator.

Actually, I don't think many of us go to the temple anymore, because every single time Xenos will acid their way in and weed everything, putting up resin doors and walls everywhere.

...Yes, Predators do have the ability to communicate. As for Xenos being cannon fodder, I don't think that was a very popular attitude among players to begin with, especially now that Xenos have the potential to upgrade and become much stronger than their standard Young form.

There's a reason for that, being that Xenos will slash Predators on sight, usually. Marine players like predators? Eh. Some people do, I suppose, the rest are either indifferent or shoot Predators on sight.

[ShortTemperedLeprechaun]

It's kinda hard to rp as a pred with xenos. IT's either usually, they'll attack you out of nowhere and tyr to hug you, run, or just hit AND run. Our rp options are limited with xenos, because they don't really have a personality, they don't have base emotions, they're killing machines. I mean, I can emote stabbing at you before I try if you want toroic, we can have a fun duel. We rp every strike for strike? I'm not being sarcastic either, this sounds fucking awesome.

[Toroic]

It's kinda hard to rp as a pred with xenos. IT's either usually, they'll attack you out of nowhere and tyr to hug you, run, or just hit AND run. Our rp options are limited with xenos, because they don't really have a personality, they don't have base emotions, they're killing machines. I mean, I can emote stabbing at you before I try if you want toroic, we can have a fun duel. We rp every strike for strike? I'm not being sarcastic either, this sounds fucking awesome.

Thing is, no predator ever honored a xeno's prowess. A xeno of exceptional skill and intelligence is simply more worthy prey, or if it has defeated predators needs to be killed to avenge their deaths.

Of course, predators honoring humans is a pretty dumb concept as well considering predators have no issues with kidnapping and hunting humans, slaughtering them by the dozen.

As far as xenos not having personalities, that simply isn't true. They have their own personalities and variable intelligence. 6 and grid being the most famous examples.

As far as I can tell, every xeno is a fully formed individual except if a queen is around they lose free will, and due to the queen's telepathic power. Essentially, they're slaves to the queen to the degree that she wishes to enforce her will.

As a xeno, I probably would be open to an honor duel, but if the queen ordered me to kill I would have to attempt no matter what occured before.

Slaves don't have the choice to be honorable. That doesn't mean they don't have personalities or emotions. They just don't have the freedom to express them.

[doodeeda]

Currently, xenos, most of the time, are too weak compared to predators to offer any challenge and any basis for tense RP in a 1v1 interaction as I've said before. What Toroic said above me is lovely and I believe it, but I simply cannot see it ingame when I've observed predator/xeno interactions.

[Toroic]

Currently, xenos, most of the time, are too weak compared to predators to offer any challenge and any basis for tense RP in a 1v1 interaction as I've said before. What Toroic said above me is lovely and I believe it, but I simply cannot see it ingame when I've observed predator/xeno interactions.

Well, that is because Xenos don't have that much raw hp, and they rely on stuns and deflecting bullets to combat marines, who are weak to stuns and almost exclusively use bullets and explosives.

Predators resist huggers, recover quickly from stuns, use melee which does not take many hits to crit even a queen, and Predators themselves can absorb an enormous amount of melee damage.

If I'm dueling a predator, my only option is to hit and run with huggers (which their mask deflects more than 2 of) or weave a dozen slashes in with my tacklespam, which isn't fun for anyone.

Plus, if a predator is losing in melee they can kite and use their plasmacaster, or simply cloak and run away.

Bullets fuck up predators much more easily, and marines dual wielding machetes can block melee hits.

The end result is that predators are much easier for a solo marine to fight off than a solo xeno, and the fights will be a lot more interesting.

[ShortTemperedLeprechaun]

Thing is, no predator ever honored a xeno's prowess. A xeno of exceptional skill and intelligence is simply more worthy prey, or if it has defeated predators needs to be killed to avenge their deaths.

Of course, predators honoring humans is a pretty dumb concept as well considering predators have no issues with kidnapping and hunting humans, slaughtering them by the dozen.

As far as xenos not having personalities, that simply isn't true. They have their own personalities and variable intelligence. 6 and grid being the most famous examples.

As far as I can tell, every xeno is a fully formed individual except if a queen is around they lose free will, and due to the queen's telepathic power. Essentially, they're slaves to the queen to the degree that she wishes to enforce her will.

As a xeno, I probably would be open to an honor duel, but if the queen ordered me to kill I would have to attempt no matter what occured before.

Slaves don't have the choice to be honorable. That doesn't mean they don't have personalities or emotions. They just don't have the freedom to express them.

The main issue I've found, is despite a preds best efforst (Or at least in my expierence), xenos will almost always try to knock the mask off, and hug them, ending any potential fun that could have ensued in a battle. A pred doesn't naturally heal like a xeno, so a xeno's best tactic would be to keep moving and fight. But like I said, xenos tend to rely on lolhugger more than anything else, making a pred hesistent to battle them or do any rp, because all it takes is one lucky hunter who thinks he's the shit to pounce you, have rng be on his side to knock the mask off, hug you, and go "Yea, I did it, I'm cool". No one likes a stun fight or a knockout fight, it's one sided and quite boring to be honest.

[Toroic]

The main issue I've found, is despite a preds best efforst (Or at least in my expierence), xenos will almost always try to knock the mask off, and hug them, ending any potential fun that could have ensued in a battle. A pred doesn't naturally heal like a xeno, so a xeno's best tactic would be to keep moving and fight. But like I said, xenos tend to rely on lolhugger more than anything else, making a pred hesistent to battle them or do any rp, because all it takes is one lucky hunter who thinks he's the shit to pounce you, have rng be on his side to knock the mask off, hug you, and go "Yea, I did it, I'm cool". No one likes a stun fight or a knockout fight, it's one sided and quite boring to be honest.

It is extremely difficult to do hit and run fights unless you're a spitter because preds are faster than most xenos and survive 15 melee hits to a xenos 3-7 hits.

That's not a winnable fight without CC.

[doodeeda]

Xenos don't naturally heal since the duel would probably happen off weeds as that would be fair. Even with all the moving and slashing in the world, a xeno will still die easy if the predator can hit the xeno once to every 5 slashes.

[coroneljones]

Xenos don't naturally heal since the duel would probably happen off weeds as that would be fair. Even with all the moving and slashing in the world, a xeno will still die easy if the predator can hit the xeno once to every 5 slashes.

Most of the time the duel happens on weeds,even more since xenos love running away

[doodeeda]

Most of the time the duel happens on weeds,even more since xenos love running away

Well, can ya blame them? Not many players are willing to go down a route which will lead to their death and then having to wait to play again. Even less as the experience of the fight won't be that satisfying for either player since it's so one-sided.

Perhaps if predator's attack strength wasn't so strong? Their defense could stay the same as predators aren't expected to be the most robust of the server population, so they could survive as they do now. With less attack, duels between an alien and a predator could last longer and perhaps make it more fun for both sides? I'm not sure as it'd take a loong time for the predator to die..for any average alien at least.

[Toroic]

Most of the time the duel happens on weeds,even more since xenos love running away

The only viable xeno tactic is ambush and guerilla warfare unless crushers/boilers/queen is there.

That means either they run away or die. Combined that with almost always being outnumbered, and it is not so much that aliens love to run away as they have no other choice

[ShortTemperedLeprechaun]

It is extremely difficult to do hit and run fights unless you're a spitter because preds are faster than most xenos and survive 15 melee hits to a xenos 3-7 hits.

That's not a winnable fight without CC.

The trick is to keep moving in a circle pattern if you will. ss13 melee combat is horribad, and if you're like me, you tend to click a millisecond too long when trying to hit a moving target, meaning it won't register.