Gameplay Discussion: Predators

[forwardslashN]

Less immediate running away when their mask gets knocked off. Less cloaking running away whenever they get stunned. Less running away in general. A lot of it has to do with SS13 mechanics, but I'm really getting annoyed watching a predator run away every time they are in any possible danger. Xenos have to chase them around or box them in to have any real way of winning. Marines stand a better chance simply because they can engage at range, but they are far squishier. I would say that if a predator uncloaks, they should be ready to fight it out to the end.

Otherwise, I don't really have an issue with them. I do wish they acted more like solitary hunters rather than ROAR I CHARGE THE HIVE. Or ROAR A MARINE SHOT AT ME I BETTER SWEAR HOLY VENGEANCE ON ALL HUMANS!

[Derpislav]

If only they melted my face while I'm being an innocent bystander medic less often...

That snarky remark aside, they're good as they are right now in terms of their general concept. Some mechanics have to be slightly adjusted, some players have to be called out some less-than-desirable things they do as preds. But as a whole, I like them.

And running away happens mostly when PLAYER THREE HAS ENTERED THE GAME rather than in 1v1's. And even if they run away from a single xeno, I can feel them - with how strong huggers are. And aliens know this.
Not defending the ones that run from fair danger, though.

[SecretStamos (Joshuu)]

EDIT: This is probably for a different thread. I am yet to see a player who has seen me play as a predator actually say I was "bad". Only staff, because it's easy to agree with one of the head admins and hop on the band wagon. You don't even know what I did wrong (I still absolutely disagree with the stupidity of the RP issue that had me removed).

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[11:44:56]SAY: Ghost/Spheretech : well i breached the ship because the queen and praetorians were killing me
[11:13:25]SAY: Unknown/Spheretech : If the humans cannot help me, they must pay for what they did to my shrine
[11:07:14]SAY: Unknown/Spheretech : I need your surgery doctors.
Spheretech/(unknown)->SecretStamos/(Joshuu 'Josh' Joshua): I just had a different opinion, I found clinging to life as much as possible despite the odds more honorable

Yeah no.

But back on subject (It wasn't my intention to derail but I recognize my earlier comment directly caused that, and I apologize for that), I really don't think removing Predators is a smart idea. They're a role that took a lot of effort from the development staff to implement. They're quite polished in terms of features, and I think removing them would be an absolute waste.

I am not even authorized to play Predator, even though I had a very large hand in their development. What does that tell you?


It's ultimately not my decision, but I REALLY don't think removing Predators is a good one. It's a complete disregard for a feature that took the development team a lot of time to build, and it frankly only hurts the round variance.

[Feweh]

I've played Predator from basically day 1 and I've experienced every measure of problems with them... so I'll try to give my best opinion and view on them.

Predator's in theory are a great addition to our server. You have this third independent force that has the ability to change rounds drastically and produce something eventful. They also give players the chance to achieve something greater in the community and in the game. The potential for Predators is almost limitless, they have a huge history of interesting interactions with Marines and Aliens in the canon lore.

However... Predators never achieve anything interesting during rounds aside from kicking ass and killing a bunch of aliens and marines. This is in due part because of the BYOND engine and the players playing Predator themselves. See one of the main issues with Predators is that it's so dependent on the people playing them to be fair and understanding. It's as so many players have said... a lot of power place in the hands of a single person.

Another HUGE over-sight with Predators is how PEOPLE will interact with them.. We put a lot of faith and understanding that players will simply UNDERSTAND how Predators operate and how over-powered they are. This is our downfall because simply put... the common player is fucking stupid.
Almost all of CM is made [Stupid-Player Proof], we put mechanics in the game to stop players from being stupid and doing stupid things. (Un-breachable walls, floors, grenade explosive limits etc)
Yet when it comes to Predators we've completely forgotten this! Most of the Predators rules ALLOW for Predators to easily kill and dispatch stupid players who have no business fighting Predators 1 vs 1. This people is what creates the most issues with Predators.... Stupid fucking players who don't understand how Predators function and complain about it after.

As I was saying, my experience with Predator is very LINEAR.
The same thing happens every round.... Establish a Lodge/Base and have 5-10 ^Stupid Xeno players^ attack only to die. You are then forced to attack the marines to help balance it out and completely wipe them out early on. Rinse and repeat every fucking round as a Predator.

Marine players have become so HOSTILE towards Predators now that they don't even bother RPing with them and I myself as a Predator don't even attempt to because I get shot on-sight. There is such a negative and shit stigma towards Predators that Aliens and Marines just fucking go for the kill.


I love playing as a Predator, it's fun, interesting and it's something new. Yet the community fucking hate's Predators with such a passion that I don't understand why we are adding them as another faction. Why are we adding something into the game that causes SO MUCH GRIEF AND PROBLEMS? If 90% of the community is complaining about something and dislikes it.. well it's probably not a good idea to put this in.

As I said, Predator has a lot of potential... But that's all they have going for them is the POTENTIAL to be interesting and add fun. Due to the mechanics of CM and the players playing them... they'll never be "fun" for the server. I hate to see something that had a lot of work put into it... But I can't imagine us opening the Applications at this point, honestly people.... we have so many issues and complaints with staff playing Predator, just imagine when John Doe starts at it.

I'm all for keeping Predators, but at this stage they need to be re-worked or a good chunk of current white-listed players removed.

[spheretech]

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[11:44:56]SAY: Ghost/Spheretech : well i breached the ship because the queen and praetorians were killing me
[11:13:25]SAY: Unknown/Spheretech : If the humans cannot help me, they must pay for what they did to my shrine
[11:07:14]SAY: Unknown/Spheretech : I need your surgery doctors.
Spheretech/(unknown)->SecretStamos/(Joshuu 'Josh' Joshua): I just had a different opinion, I found clinging to life as much as possible despite the odds more honorable

Yeah no.

But back on subject (It wasn't my intention to derail but I recognize my earlier comment directly caused that, and I apologize for that), I really don't think removing Predators is a smart idea. They're a role that took a lot of effort from the development staff to implement. They're quite polished in terms of features, and I think removing them would be an absolute waste.

I am not even authorized to play Predator, even though I had a very large hand in their development. What does that tell you?


It's ultimately not my decision, but I REALLY don't think removing Predators is a good one. It's a complete disregard for a feature that took the development team a lot of time to build, and it frankly only hurts the round variance.

I agree that predators are too cool to be simply removed, alot of work was put into them, obviously. I was only saying that I would not mind at all if they were gone. We've lived without them for ages. Not suggestion a removal.

[outordinary]

Isn't that where the pred can then just cloak and fire upon the marines? It shouldn't be that hard once cloaked. What I also want is for them to stay cloaked and observe those that do acts that make them worthy and quite possibly a list being put down instead of them just going "I've found that random xeno or random human that I've decided to face in melee combat at first sight!" Maybe something such as this human has killed xxx amount of xenos or this SL has commanded his squad and coordinated well with them. This xeno has done such and such to give the humans a rough time and has become a worthy hunter of being hunted.

This, this is the shit I would like to see. Pick a person/xeno and study them, if they are robust as fuck, get into a fight with them.

[forwardslashN]

If 90% of the community is complaining about something and dislikes it.. well it's probably not a good idea to put this in.

I think it is more likely that 10% of the community has a problem with predators while the vast majority do not. Predators are not perfect, but from what I've seen of the response, predator rounds are looked forward to as something unique and different rather than unwanted. I am honestly confused as to why you think the community hates predators. As for whitelisted players, lordekilly is probably my favorite predator as someone who doesn't cloak run ever 10 seconds and actually fights when things are not looking his way. Good rper too, though I don't think I've never encountered him as a marine.

This, this is the shit I would like to see. Pick a person/xeno and study them, if they are robust as fuck, get into a fight with them.

The thing is, it's almost impossible to robust a pred 1v1 unless the pred specifically makes it fair by taking off their armor or something. If you are a xeno or marine, a predator is just too tough to fight alone, and they can cloak and run the moment things don't go down their way. If a predator uncloaks in front of me and I am a marine, I'm getting out of dodge. IC and OOC, my chances of survival are not looking so good, so I want to have backup. Which leads to squads chasing down preds et cetera. Unless I am a ravager or crusher, and maybe queen, I have no real chance of taking down a pred as a xeno, and even then I am very likely to get killed without somewhere to retreat and heal. Running is always the best option, followed by a xeno lynching mob.

Mechanically, predators encourage mob behavior because you cannot fight them alone. It's kind of fun for me, since it's a challenging task that is rewarding, but I'm not sure it's intended?

[ParadoxSpace]

Honestly I agree with Pink here. It's the same thing as xeno first contact, predator first contact.
Tip: It doesn't include roleplay. It's just 'kill that lizard/big guy'

[monkeysfist101]

As someone who regularly encounters predators while playing marine, the problem isn't with predator mechanics and mindset, but with the marine mechanics and mindset. Marines don't have an honor code; they have a machine gun and a cloning facility.

9/10 times that the predators take off their mask and try to start a 1v1, the marines open fire and get torn to pieces only to be cloned. I don't want to derail the thread, but this loops back to the removal of the cloning mechanic to make marine players realize that putting their arm in a meat grinder isn't a good idea.

On the other hand, we need to establish that predators are brutal creatures that don't give a damn about the value of life. Everyone on the planet is armed and in a combat zone making them fair game for the hunt. People need to stop complaining when they're killed as a medic. If you watch "Predator" you'll notice that the radioman was killed by a cloaked predator while his weapon was slung. One of the best things I've seen a predator do when the marine they were stalking got injured was not drag them to a doctor or a medic and expect not to get gunned down, but instead found a the headless body of a medic and threw it at the guy.

I might have rambled some but I got the point across.

[Xenomorph Dominatrix]

Rarely do they get cloned because the predator is running at full pelt, faster than even aliens for some bizarre reason, to their Space Weeaboo (this is what I call them with an unfortunate amount of awareness of the lore of them) hideaway while moonwalk-slashing the downed person and then beheading/gibbing the body from what I've observed....

http://avpmud.com (use CMUD from http://zuggsoft.com to connect to it, the port thing is 4000) never managed to balance predators in about more than 10 years? (http://pastebin.com/raw/kwJyAydv) The way they tried to deal with it was less armour and health then a marine, less run speed than an alien, but it was STILL weighed against the fact they have the advantages of both sides in being able to shoot like a marine and melee like an alien at the same time so marines can't win by shooting and aliens get killed in melee, magic tech powers and invisibility, and still not a fair fight for either - I'd say they should be an admin event but we've seen how admins play them as 1 person killing sprees too, so... I don't know what the solution is to that is other than turning them off for now at least, they definitely shouldn't be so common that it's a random "Fuck you all, THIS IS NOW A PREDATOR'S [possessive] ROUND" thing, it's horrible

[Adjective]

I will be the middle ground.

Yes predators are really strong and have potential to be abused, this is why we have player reports, admin investigations, and a whitelist.

Two, there are indeed players who strive to make RP more fun than to kill spree.

I myself, when entering a pred round, do not kill everything in sight. I more frequently than not kidnap good marines and test them as a predator, often resulting in them getting a pred weapon.

Three,

There is no privelage, anyone can be a predator if they submit a decent application and have a good community standing. There is however, admin bias, which is why a Head/Host makes the decision. No votes in a predator application count unless it comes from Lost, SAS, Rahlzel, or Apophis. Even Joshuu's vote doesn't count.

[Boltersam]

Rarely do they get cloned because the predator is running at full pelt, faster than even aliens for some bizarre reason

The majority of the Aliens are slower than the Marines. it's not bizzare because Marines got the speed advantage instead of the aliens for some ridiculous reason.

[spheretech]

The majority of the Aliens are slower than the Marines. it's not bizzare because Marines got the speed advantage instead of the aliens for some ridiculous reason.

Most xenos obviously have a speed advantage or go as fast, even carriers go faster I'm pretty sure

[Boltersam]

Most xenos obviously have a speed advantage or go as fast, even carriers go faster I'm pretty sure

Only the runner is faster than a marine, last I checked.

[spheretech]

Only the runner is faster than a marine, last I checked.

The ravager, hunter are definitely faster. Crushers obviously in their charge. Carrier and sentinel MAYBE. But they are all faster than humans on weeds anyway so.

[Azmodan412]

The ravager, hunter are definitely faster. Crushers obviously in their charge. Carrier and sentinel MAYBE. But they are all faster than humans on weeds anyway so.

Off weeds, the Carrier definitely is faster than a marine. I tested it.

[Boltersam]

The ravager, hunter are definitely faster. Crushers obviously in their charge. Carrier and sentinel MAYBE. But they are all faster than humans on weeds anyway so.

Sentinels, spitters, praetorians, hunters, drowns, hivelords, crushers when this charge is off and the Queen.

Even if you don't count the crusher, the slower than human aliens are in the majority.

[ZDashe]

Ok before we get sidetracked about speeds...

Lets just say that it takes two hands to clap. I agree with the problems faced upon first contact:

Honestly I agree with Pink here. It's the same thing as xeno first contact, predator first contact.
Tip: It doesn't include roleplay. It's just 'kill that lizard/big guy'

More often than not, some marine just decides to fire upon the unknown dreadlock warrior upon sight, and then it becomes open season for all... I remember one round when I brought a voice analyzer and we were trying to communicate with the Predator upon first contact. All it took, was one marine in our squad to run around, and opened fire repeatedly at the Predator. RIP RP.

Aside from predator guidelines, I suppose we might need guidelines for Marines on first contact with a Predator too? We got Honor Code guidelines for Predators, but it's hard for Predators to have honorable 1v1 hunts when the other side doesn't comply... Predators should NOT be removed, because I agree that a majority of player still enjoy their presence in a round.

On a sidenote, I enjoyed observing Predator fights myself. On a few occasions, some robust marine would 1v1 the Pred and put up a really good fight, but they ultimately lost. Like the one who disarmed the Predator and used his own weapon against him. Except one occasion when I saw a dishonorable Pred actually ran away from a fight with a B18 spec with riot shield after failing to do enough damage... Also, not to mention the moments when Xenos swarm the Pred, and hugs it. That feeling of satisfaction as Alien: 10/10.

[LordeKilly]

The predator in the movie, "Predator" the predator did run away cloaked when the dhitlers shot towards him.

[Derpislav]

There's a major difference between challenging a marine to a duel and running when it turns out he doesn't die to the first blow, and running because he called 30 friends and you're one failed sidestep away from becoming a lead statue with some meat thrown in.

[outordinary]

So far I see weaken the predators a bit and make it so they can't just cloak and run when getting robusted.

[Rey]

Predators seem fine to me, but I haven't seen that many of them nor have I played one myself.
I think some rule and honor code changes should be enough, but like I said I have not had many encounters with them

[Inspiregona]

To me, personally, predators are fine how they are. Maybe a bit of an honor code clarification or rules clarification and we'll be golden. Most of the predator problems come from players going, pardon my language but it's the only thing that fits, full-retard on both sides. Most of the time, marines brainlessly attack the huge muscle man who hasn't done a thing. Aliens... meh, they get a break for this one seeing how they have to spread the hive and all that. Predators plasma-spamming and cloak fighting in a 1v1. Just generally non-honorable things. That's what really gets the community mad. However, most of the time, it's un-needed salt when someone's chosen for a fight. Preventing extinction of one side and getting a nice hunt is the goal, most people don't seem to realize that.... That's my two cents however, if I'm wrong on something, please point it out.

[Gelonvia]

Vara'ule V'var-de for predator whitelist removal - working with the humans, using a /riot shield/ to wipe out the last aliens, that's against the lore of them to deliberately wipe out the aliens though?

Another notable part: After fighting a ravager, "EAST SIDE BITCH!", I looked in the rules and the rule against "gangster" talk is for aliens, I'm assuming that stuff is a whitelist issue anyway...

I adminhelped the former part and got 0 response, Ordukai and Gentlefood were online, I don't think whitelists can solve these kind of issues, as soon as people get given privileges on the internet it tends to not be long before it gets abused if there's no one trying to do any oversight of it.

OKAY.. SO I asked Ordukai about where the Predator Complaint Section went and tried to find it myself, and it's nowhere, so I am also trying to poke Rahlzel for you sense he handles alot of Forum stuff and I know Apop is usually busy. My biggest suggestion is if your still super serious about the complaint that you use the "Player Complaint" section of the forum, i'll also see what Rahlzel says, maybe he would know.

[Egorkor]

last pred complaint I saw was in player complaints.
on topic - I think that the pred regulars' opinion weighs more here, since they played that role and have experience in it, so they can tell what's possibly wrong with them.
all I can say here is probably tweak the map a bit so there're more places for the predators to set up a camp in, mostly it's the sandtemple as mentioned above and it almost always ends up in hive getting popped because of that "shite runner" or sentinel that decided to attack.