Predator Whitelist Thing

[Inspiregona]

To my understanding, predators' whitelist app is being redone. While this is a good thing, I also believe everyone who is on the whitelist should re-apply, then be held accountable for their actions as predator. All predator topics of late have just been gameplay discussion or a poll. While I support having predators, and support how they are currently balanced, most of the current complaints against predators, bar the ones claiming OPness, have been about the players behind them. Most of this can simply be fixed by the honor code being upheld on the player side and being forced on the server staff side. Feel free to discuss what I've said or pick it apart from the inside... actually, PLEASE discuss this.

_{I don't really know where else to put this, so it goes on this board.}

[LordeKilly]

It is enforced staff side. The problem is most of the staff is on in short durations with short numbers at a time. So the only preds could be 2 players and one staff. Now that staff can't hold himself accountable really, because it's biased to handle anything related to you icly. Also we unfortunately don't have a whitlist. We do, however, have a whitelist. Feel free to check it out when it's done.

((((:

[Inspiregona]

Schittt, thanks for pointing out my spelling error....

[Hycinth]

...I one hundred percent agree on having preds reapply, do a trial hunt, etc.

[Seehund]

Can't see why that's necessary - staff already ARE held accountable, but I think the problem is another.

People keep complaining about pred players, but hey, take a look at thi-- oh.
I'm seeing no specific complaints, when THAT is the most reasonable thing you could do in the event of a bad predator - certainly saner than removing the whitelist from everybody, so the same people can copy paste their whitelist, be reaccepted with no change at all and... ?

If you think they should be held MORE accountable, that's certainly a valid point, but I honestly, truly, really don't see how having everyone reapply would bring any benefit, other than an immediate bother for the head staff, having to process 18 applications that had already been accepted, again.

By the way, most, if not all current predators HAVE undergone at least one trial hunt, supervised by another predator.

[Grypho]

The main cause of problem has been clear for me for a while. It is jealousness. If predators would really be so horrible and bad at playing their role, there would be approved complaints about them with proper evidence (pictures, logs, etc..). And no, I am not whitelisted, so I am not talking from the predator representives´ side. Predators usually only attack marines when they are either assaulted by the marines or if the marines are about to kill the final alien. And honestly they are not that OP... if you stick to the group, have SADAR and medic guys... they really can´t do much.

There is no need for trial hunts in my opinion as I see it only boosts people´s ego and satisfies their jealousness.

[Inspiregona]

To Grypho: Oh, yeah, I completely agree they aren't OP. And I agree that some are good at their role. However, I've witnessed first hand some predators running from a fight they could easily win, plasma-caster spamming against solo targets, and just general crappy stuff. (Note that I'm generally new to the Colonial Marines, so pardon some ignorance on my part.) Most of the time, it's people complaining in dead chat about predators not following the honor code, while I mostly disagree with them, they say that no complaints will even be considered because of some supposed staff bias. (Note again that I think that claim is bullshit, love you guys.)

To Jack: See last part of paragraph above. And while looking back, having everyone re-apply is a bit much, a bit more accountability and responsibility among the whitelisted would be well within reason. The only reason I suggested a re-apply is because the application is being re-worked, so the whitelisted should have to pass by the new standard. While I'm not complaining about preds, it sucks really hard to get purple/pink walled while dead about predators. As for the trial hunt, consistency is really what matters. Doing really good in the trial hunt then shitting it up during an actual round is kinda defying the point of actually having a trial hunt. I understand that sometimes people have bad days, that's completely cool with me, just responsibility needs to be taken on those days.

[forwardslashN]

Maybe not everyone, but definitely some people who have not been active in the community for some time should re-apply. Example: some guy no one ever seen play before on the server joined as pred last night. Apparently went on a blood feud against xenos early on killing a bunch, including a larva, died, had all of his stuff stolen, was cloned, worked with the marines to kill the crippled xenos, had marines use his teleporter to get on his spaceship, wore marine armor, etc. I didn't see most of this happen, but there were a lot of people on, observing. My point is, some of the people on the whitelist haven't even played pred in a while and could probably do with a re-appl.

[Jack McIntyre]

Just going to put out even a good pred can use a plasma caster against 1v1, but they set rules. I usually just engage in hand to hand combat, but if you run from me and I can catch you them caster is going to come out. But I agree I haven't been on in a while, but I have gotten a few byond messages about preds breaking the rules even though I wasn't staff anymore. That being said the preds I have hunted with in rounds usually haven't had problems, but that was other staff members at the time and I can personally say my first hunt I was mentored and had a mentor during my first hunt to keep a eye on me. So on the fence about reapplying, but would say we could have everyone go though a group hunt for first hunt with staff again. Just to make sure no one is being a bad pred.

[Feweh]

Theres no reason for the current whitelist to re-apply.

We've thought about it and most of the shit players have already been removed. The one's that would have to re-apply would most likely just be re-accepted already as they are currently playing fine. If anything the current Predators are under more watch and scrutiny right now than possibly anyone will be in the future.

Trials runs are actually one of the worst ways to test someone, simply being because BYOND and SS13 functions on a RNG. I've had runs where I was shot once and it destroyed my lungs and I've died as a Predator before. All a Trial run would be good for is seeing if the person can RP... and honestly if you're a Predator at this point then we already know you can RP.
In my opinion most accepted applicants are known players in the community, this is the only way Predator really works. We would never let some brand new player who just started playing CM be in such a vital position.. no matter how good the application was.

Also, no offense but bringing a topic like this up when you've just registered for the forums really isn't going to hold much water. One of the biggest issues and debates we have with predators is the community being jealous and salty about them. If you're not active in the community and your first few posts are regarding Predators, then it's difficult to take you seriously in those regards.

Maybe not everyone, but definitely some people who have not been active in the community for some time should re-apply. Example: some guy no one ever seen play before on the server joined as pred last night. Apparently went on a blood feud against xenos early on killing a bunch, including a larva, died, had all of his stuff stolen, was cloned, worked with the marines to kill the crippled xenos, had marines use his teleporter to get on his spaceship, wore marine armor, etc. I didn't see most of this happen, but there were a lot of people on, observing. My point is, some of the people on the whitelist haven't even played pred in a while and could probably do with a re-appl.

If you see things like this... REPORT IT please!

[Inspiregona]

Alright, that makes sense, Feweh. I've only seen people complaining, then figured I'd post at least something about it. -shrugs-

[apophis775]

The problem is, when a Pred "TRIES" to honobru hunt, the marine immediatly calls for help, and 30 other marines appear to make him a lead sandwich. And the first time that happens, the Marines are shown to have "no honor" and thus, most preds change tactics to "isolate/kill" from "honorable duel". I've done rounds where I've tossed a weapon to a marine to face me, we are fighting, another marine comes up, and grenades/rockets us both to death.

A big problem with preds right now, is not just the pred-side, but MARINES. And Marines can't get "salty" when a predator who was fighting legit combat against another marine owns the face off of marines who interfere.

[Egorkor]

there's also the thing, like, preds are helping the marines to fight, then suddenly they drag off a marine spearing him to death in the middle of the defence, thus making the marines hostile toward them, and then they start to off them with the casters.
that happened today and brought a rain of SADAR shells upon them, but rocketeers aren't there most of the time.

[Inspiregona]

Okay, so looking back, this post was an extremely bad idea on my part, given my lack of experience with the community in general. Last night it seemed like a good idea... no so good now. So, uh, sorry for wasting you guys' time.

[Seehund]

Okay, so looking back, this post was an extremely bad idea on my part, given my lack of experience with the community in general. Last night it seemed like a good idea... no so good now. So, uh, sorry for wasting you guys' time.

No post is bad if it incites civil discussion, and this one has.

I'd say the OP has some good points about holding up the preds to a stricter honor code, but the reapply thing isn't necessary, per se.