Marines should be losing.

[Telegnats]

So what do we change? Do we change anything? Is the number of marine losses low enough to warrant buffs or nerfs? Aren't marine victories mostly 'hard won' anyway? What's the difference between a hard won victory and a boring victory? Are marine victories ever 'fun' for everyone?

What's fun about the marines killing off the last few stragglers? That's generally how every single marine victory is won, and apparently it's boring. There's almost no way to fix that unless we make drastic changes to the game mode. So what do we do? Should we just make aliens artificially stronger? Should we make marines weaker?

[Disco Dalek]

I honestly enjoy losing much more than I enjoy most victories. As a doctor/medic, easy victories mean I don't get to do very much while slow painful defeats keep me entertained for hours.

[Ms.Degrasse]

Yep, there, I said.

I wanted to know how many of you think the same.

I think the same, but actually I felt the game now is actually much easier for a standard "vanilla" marine (equipped with the pulse rifles).

The underslung grenade launcher added the stun feature marines were lacking.

By putting it to good use, anyone can go alone and kill any tier 3 alien that isn't a crusher on a 1v1 battle.
- It's just a matter of using it carefully, aiming properly and having in mind the context and environment.

[MasterZ01]

Some believe: the server should focus on a balanced fight between Xenos and Marines, and it'll be fun either way irregardless of Lore/probability.
Others believe: the server should focus on a Lore/cinematic style game where it's tipped in the favor of the Xenos because that's what the lore dictates, as this is a RP game.

What we've run into is a Roleplay vs Action argument. This was never really clearly defined to satisfy both parties presuming they were right. Now this has become an issue as a result; We must decide which way the server will lean: Action or Roleplay, we could try both but that will lead to conflict if not clearly defined.

[Boltersam]

hah.
how about no.

But it was. I remember the whole thread on picking which to have, prison map or sadar. Prison map won, salt-dar was supposed to be removed.

[Derpislav]

It was because the saltdar would make prison unplayable, not because of what it is as a weapon (a salt cannon). Plus it's not as bad as it used to be, certainly not after xeno speed buff.

[Azmodan412]

It was because the saltdar would make prison unplayable, not because of what it is as a weapon (a salt cannon). Plus it's not as bad as it used to be, certainly not after xeno speed buff.

Near, if not an instant hit.

[Egorkor]

Near, if not an instant hit.

lemme tell you a secret. with the recent speed buff, you can dodge the rockets because they're slower related to xenos now. happened a lot to me.
not to mention the most important question - if the SADAR is dangerous, then why rush it and test your luck trying to fuck with the rocketeer, then get mad if you die. ranged attacks exist, and the aliens can noscope from almost a screen away (mechanically).

[flagsteeler]

it's fine as it is. i see a lot of marines wins, and i see a lot of alien wins, the only thing i care about is lag

[Peachy2912]

Personally I enjoy playing marines the most whenever its a long drawn out defeat. Trying to defend a location for 20+ minutes (sometimes a lot more) while under constant assault from Xenos of all shapes and sizes, as the perimeter slowly collapses around you and ammo starts to run low makes it really feel like you and you're buddies are trying to survive.

The experience is only enhanced if, by some miracle, you and the ragged survivors manage to evac on the drop ship with as many wounded as you can carry to get patched up and live to fight another day. Only for the Drop ship alarm to go off and reveal to you how truly fucked you are. It then turns into a true fight for survival as what's left of the crew desperately tries to resist the wave of alien claws.

Experiences like these remind me so much of the Pre-alpha game play where the marine side would desperately try to hold out in briefing only to eventually succumb to superior numbers and superior strength after a long and hard fought battle.

I don't see the appeal of winning as either side if said victory doesn't create great moments that leave you feeling exhausted but satisfied with the outcome. Sure it sucks to lose but surely the importance of winning is trumped by the importance of creating epic and memorable moments within a round for both sides.

[Edgelord]

Losing is fun because it generally ends up in better battles, cave sweeping makes me want to off myself.

I completely get what Derpislav is saying, the marines in Aliens were at IMMENSE disadvantage. Gameplay > Lore, I won't deny it; but in my own experience tension is the key to a great experience. You don't get tension from an equal playing field, you get tension when you know you can get steamrolled if you make a bad decision. Going out alone? I don't care if you're a specialist you should be taken care of with minimal effort. Hell even the SADAR is based around teamplay due to its stunning nature and damage model.

[Dyne]

There is losing because you fought hard and failed...
...and then there is losing because Command is incompetent and bullet accuracy suddendly is off.

[forwardslashN]

Marines have been winning a bit in the last few days, usually by grenading the hell out of the shuttle. So I guess not much has changed.

[LocalizedDownpour]

Marines are adjusting. Things are getting more...even?

[Lostmixup]

Winning should be fun for both sides, same with losing, losing shouldn't be encouraged though because it's more fun unless it's the point of the game/server. I dint like losing as marine because it feels like wasted effort personally.

[forwardslashN]

I played a few rounds as xeno and marine recently. Xenos actually feel pretty weak now, and marines curbstomp them handily in the hanger. Mines insta crit anything below T3, turrets are absolutely insane, and the underhanded grenade launchers are super handy to have.

[LocalizedDownpour]

I played a few rounds as xeno and marine recently. Xenos actually feel pretty weak now, and marines curbstomp them handily in the hanger.

Marines are falling back much earlier now as the most sure way to win is have a sizable force in the hanger as to nade spam the aliens. I am curious to see if aliens will somehow adapt?

[forwardslashN]

Marines are falling back much earlier now as the most sure way to win is have a sizable force in the hanger as to nade spam the aliens. I am curious to see if aliens will somehow adapt?

You are starting to see more cautious aliens, where they stay near the hive. But even then, an even number of marines in the hanger can kill half of the aliens within the first two minutes of a hanger defense. Not to mention if they have a sentry or two. Even complete victories on the planet are nothing, and marines may lose 75% of their forces and still easily win.

[Derpislav]

That's when you send two forces - Crushers and spitters in the dropship, and all the hunters, runners and carriers in the drop pod.

[LocalizedDownpour]

You are starting to see more cautious aliens, where they stay near the hive. But even then, an even number of marines in the hanger can kill half of the aliens within the first two minutes of a hanger defense. Not to mention if they have a sentry or two. Even complete victorious on the planet are nothing, and marines may lose 75% of their forces and still easily win.

I think this is a direct result of how marines are handling defenses now with the loss of grilles both electric and normal, I wonder if the Xeno update will push things more in a favor of balance, or if we'll see a new alien meta emerge. It's fun to watch these things in real time.

[EXOTICISME]

That's when you send two forces - Crushers and spitters in the dropship, and all the hunters, runners and carriers in the drop pod.

But queen can't call pod from the planet side. Unless the marines leave it behind...

[forwardslashN]

That's when you send two forces - Crushers and spitters in the dropship, and all the hunters, runners and carriers in the drop pod.

I've seen this many times, but I have never seen this work. Splitting your forces may sound good in theory, but it does not work out in practice. It usually means the pod group is cut off from support and will be quickly overwhelmed by the marines already present in the hanger. And the pod is usually recalled, too.

[LordLoko]

But queen can't call pod from the planet side. Unless the marines leave it behind...

I remeber that once that the marines had leaved the pod behind. But NOT the shuttle, the queen called the shuttle from the sulaco and the marine starting fortifying it, then all the aliens entered and launched on the pod.

Everyone was confused and we flanked them while they were preparing to attack the shuttle, it was GLORIOUS

[Rabidgam3r]

This is exactly why I play marine, to get that true badass feel. Not badass because I punched the queen in the face with my rippling muscles and steamrolled everything, but because I somehow fucking survived a giant assault with my squad (or in most cases, without my squad. rip). Nobody likes marine steamrolls, aliens get frustrated with dying and marines don't get any of the actual enjoyment of the game, just a bunch of shooting and you're done.

[60000]

Marines are falling back much earlier now as the most sure way to win is have a sizable force in the hanger as to nade spam the aliens. I am curious to see if aliens will somehow adapt?

No-Retreat CO's when?