Marines should be losing.

[Derpislav]

Yep, there, I said.

To calm some of you down with your "STAFF IS BIASED AGAINST MARINES", I'm a marine-only player. Alien mechanics are just too dull for me.

See, the thing is, we have reached such a point in balance where marine gameplay is very movie-like. Losing is cinematic. Before the recent-ish updates, every marine victory was painstakingly grinded and frustrating for aliens, while every marine loss warranted a "oh COME ON man" reaction.
Currently, every marine victory is heroically earned, every draw tense to the last moment, and every loss makes you feel like the last 3 surviving marines from X movie, standing back to back taking as many as they can with them or avoiding the foe in the dark halls of the lost ship for as long as possible, hoping to not bump into a group and disturb the beast.
And with the incoming updates, it's bound to only get an even better experience.

I wanted to know how many of you think the same.

[Feweh]

Its more fun when marines lose.

No one enjoys hunting down the last 2 aliens at round e d who are endlessly delaying.
Everyone loves the final sulaco sieges, theyre great

[bmoreno830]

@above could you perhaps fix the server?

[LocalizedDownpour]

Honestly I'm inclined to agree. I play both sides of the fence...mainly Xeno after I die. I wouldn't say that marines should be losing...but I think that victory should be far from assaured.

Two victories that marines had last night were pretty hard fought. Holding onto firebases as you gave see 6+ aliens scurrying around about outside the walls hearing the click of that last mag and firing that last rocket. It was /hard/ and it felt earned

Ontop of all the losses that make great RP as my characters friend get dragged off into the dark, hearing their cries for help before they just stop coming, or her and her buddy side by side shooting into a horde only for the Ravager to charger in and take her friends head, desperately trying to triage wounded in the fob during that last hold out where two minutes feels like hours as you're treating six plus people with dwindling supplies knowing full well you'll only be able to save a fraction of who comes to you as you're surrounded on all sides the healthy firing without there being a break in the attack and the dying all begging for help.

Sense the update almost all of my rounds have been memorable in one way or the other, win or lose they've been extremely fun and that's what matters.

[Monoo]

This thread has honestly opened my eyes a bit. I've been one of those complaining in deadchat about muh balance and how the aliens are pretty OP. However, it just dawned on me that they're SUPPOSED to be that way. This isn't a competitive FPS; the struggle of the marines is supposed to be a slanted fight. T3 xenos are supposed to be giant, unstoppable killing machines, and taking them down should definitely never, ever feel less rewarding than it does right now.

[Egorkor]

it was always fun to lose. the other thing is that you were unable to fight back like in the first tests of the current update, which made some people angry.
about the taking down the T3s, it does feel rewarding but. not when they're spammed, which makes it boring. "great job taking down that crusher lads, now we've won us a break. oh wait, they've 4 more and 4 more carriers, why give these fools a fight when we can retreat and fuck them in the hangar".

[Feweh]

Think about it.

Marines winning is boring for EVERYONE.

Sulaco command, medical and cargo have nothing to do if marines are winning.

Marines sit around doing nothing most round trying to catch the last few aliens round delaying.

Theres a lot more RP and interesting events transpiring when marines are under constant pressure.

[MrJJJ]

Marines winning is boring for EVERYONE.

Theres a lot more RP and interesting events transpiring when marines are under constant pressure.

When was it boring ever for marines again to win against unstoppable xenos?

If you guys want OP xenos, then sure, go ahead, watch how FUN it is for the other side to be fighting unstoppable force, and speaking of which.

This isn't a competitive FPS; the struggle of the marines is supposed to be a slanted fight.

Where is this info coming from? who even said this? i remember Apop saying this is a ACTION Medium RP server, this is kind of competitive too, Marines Vs Aliens, while not FPS, its still 2 sides fighting each other.


Yeah i am generally against that Marines should be losing, in pre-alpha this was almost 50/50 and balance sometimes tipped as marines and xenos found ways to exploit things, but now the tip has been at xenos side for quite a bit too long to be honest, and it would rather be preferable that Apop tells us If we are suppose to be 50/50 anymore or marines are now suppose to lose almost every damn round so this debate can really stop.

[Joe4444]

I like it when marines lose,It leads to some tense moments of marines back to back in the FOB holding out against all the xenos they can.I've had some of my best moments after this new update(expect for pre alpha) and they were really fun s you know your going to lose,I go into the game knowing we're probably going to lose but its still fun anyway,I like when marines lose even though they bitch about it in OOC

[LordeKilly]

I'm kind of the person you were talking about derp, and what I said was it was situational. If marines have baldies who run into xenos, it only feeds their push. If aliens make some early shit plays, it feeds the marine push. I simply stated, it's probably going to end up getting worse with this xeno buff abby was talking about. From what I see, it's at a 60% for marines, 40% for xenos, but with too much of this xeno upgrade buff thing, it could offset it a lot.

[forwardslashN]

I've always maintained that xenos are more powerful than marines if played competently, and that is probably intended since they have to fight an uphill battle against far greater numbers. And I basically agree, that marine victories hard won are a lot more satisfying than curb stomping the xenos. Being in that last line of defense, holding down alien hordes while injured and bleeding out makes for a far better story than being a random marine that was there at some point when the aliens were wiped out. It's more personal and ultimately more satisfying. Hell, even surviving with your fellows on the escape shuttle feels like an accomplishment, because it was earned.

[LordeKilly]

I've always maintained that xenos are more powerful than marines if played competently, and that is probably intended since they have to fight an uphill battle against far greater numbers. And I basically agree, that marine victories hard won are a lot more satisfying than curb stomping the xenos. Being in that last line of defense, holding down alien hordes while injured and bleeding out makes for a far better story than being a random marine that was there at some point when the aliens were wiped out. It's more personal and ultimately more satisfying. Hell, even surviving with your fellows on the escape shuttle feels like an accomplishment, because it was earned.

I agree, competent queens lead to xeno victories, as it should be. I think i'm just a little salty when hanger defense is just blown through by an asston of tier threes. Like today, tristan played a godly queen, the hive was jacked, marines didn't even last 5 minutes after the aliens got on the sulaco. I just have that mentality of pushing back xeno sieges and then going in for a final assault, all tattered and worn.

[SpanishBirdman]

I think this idea is a ridiculous example of lore>gameplay, which is a shame since it is usually the other way around. I play both sides, but marine exclusive players WILL quit the server if the balance remains as bad as it is now, it's simply a matter of time until their annoyance overpowers their enjoyment of the server. Balance is good for the health of the server. In addition, being under siege in the FOB as a marine when you know you can't make it to the shuttle, or having to sit in the FOB for 45 minutes because the aliens won't attack and command isn't confident in the troop numbers to mount an assault SUCKS. The best times I have had as a marine are mostly the big assaults, when the squads storm the caves with fire and steel, medics hurriedly patching up the wounded, walls of marines advancing through the tunnels. It's so goddamn cool, especially when the assault doesn't break. I agree that hunting the last couple aliens through the caves is very boring, and perhaps I might come up with a suggestion to make the very end of the round go quicker, but attacking the Sulaco can be just as boring. Once the major areas of resistance have been wiped out, there are always 8 or so marines in various pockets of the ship that the aliens have to spend 15 minutes searching for and killing, especially when one of the players has walled them self in somewhere.

[forwardslashN]

I agree, competent queens lead to xeno victories, as it should be. I think i'm just a little salty when hanger defense is just blown through by an asston of tier threes. Like today, tristan played a godly queen, the hive was jacked, marines didn't even last 5 minutes after the aliens got on the sulaco. I just have that mentality of pushing back xeno sieges and then going in for a final assault, all tattered and worn.

I'm actually in favor of restricting the number of tier threes available to aliens. Three crushers and three ravagers with some basic support can more or less take down anything in their way. But with the xeno update coming pretty soon, we'd need to really take a look at how that all fits together.

[Boltersam]

I'm actually in favor of restricting the number of tier threes available to aliens. Three crushers and three ravagers with some basic support can more or less take down anything in their way. But with the xeno update coming pretty soon, we'd need to really take a look at how that all fits together.

I agree. After the Xeno update, we can take a look at things properly. Let's not spam T3 limit suggestions just yet.

I'm a painfully pro-alien player, and I enjoy the recent speed buff a lot, now marines are in a lot more danger out in the open, and there are more waves of aliens crashing against the marine defences. That boulder will eventually crack, one way or another. Marines are not badasses if they steamroll everything. They are badasses because they face a larger, faster, and harder hitting force that grows stronger with time.

[Azmodan412]

They are badasses because they face a larger, faster, and harder hitting force that grows stronger with time.

Hmm, larger, faster and harder hitting. Larger in numbers oh hell to the fuck no. Larger in relative size? Maybe. Faster yes. Harder hitting: Harder than a SADAR?

[Reimer]

Think about it.

Marines winning is boring for EVERYONE.

Sulaco command, medical and cargo have nothing to do if marines are winning.

Marines sit around doing nothing most round trying to catch the last few aliens round delaying.

Theres a lot more RP and interesting events transpiring when marines are under constant pressure.

While I agree that the Sulaco sieges are one of the most fun things that can happen on the server, I have to disagree with you. Even when the Marines are winning there is a constant stream of casualties to the Medbay, the Marines are still burning ammo, so Cargo is still needed, and Command still has to organize the whole mess. It's that way even when the Marines are losing if it's before they pull off the planet.

It's the boring times supporting the Marines from behind the frontlines that make the fun times defending it when it all comes crashing down fun, I argue.

Besides, it'd be far worse (in the long run) if the Aliens were to win every round, why bother trying if it's all going to end the same way?

[Wickedtemp]

I'd agree with this, for the most part. The constant 'Marine Major Victories' that we'd have a while back were actually the reason I stopped playing Marine and went to Doctor or MP instead, so I'd actually have something to do rather than sit at the FoB the whole round. Several times while playing Medical, NOBODY would come up injured, we had NOTHING to do, and then all of a sudden?

"GOD, HAS A HARD-ON FOR MARINES. BECAUSE WE KILL /EVERYTHING WE SEE/!"

It was boring. I honestly had MUCH more fun during the alpha testing last year, and it was a Xeno victory nearly every round. And at that time I played exclusively marine. So, no, they shouldn't win EVERY round, but I do agree with the general statement.

[Boltersam]

Hmm, larger, faster and harder hitting. Larger in numbers oh hell to the fuck no. Larger in relative size? Maybe. Faster yes. Harder hitting: Harder than a SADAR?

Weeeeell, later in the round the aliens start snowballing with numbers.

The salt-dar was slated to be removed. By all rights it should not exist.

[Egorkor]

hah.
how about no.

[Telegnats]

If staff thinks marines should be losing then why don't we get rid of marine win conditions altogether? Just autospawn queens and aliens whenever the last one is killed?

[Derpislav]

Mainly because, 1: all staff members that has spoken there are mods, which can't do shit, not only because they're not allowed to, but don't even have the tools.
2: all of them play either 50/50 or mostly marine.
3: take a moment to read the thread after the title. If you still think it's about the victory itself, read it again.
4: feel free to make a report against my alien bias.

[Telegnats]

Okay, so we want marines to be ABLE to win... But we don't want them to win. Correct me if i'm wrong, but I get the feeling that's essentially what you're saying.

[ShortTemperedLeprechaun]

I feel I should agree here. Marines should feel like they have to struggle for every inch of ground, every moment of victory, in my opinion. While I usually play marine, I also play xeno, so this isn't exactly biased. I mean, look at the movies we're based off of. Marines had to struggle to even fucking survive to escape, you should struggle even harder for the win.

[KittyLava]

Okay, so we want marines to be ABLE to win... But we don't want them to win. Correct me if i'm wrong, but I get the feeling that's essentially what you're saying.

I believe it's more along the lines, the marine victories should be felt like they're won from hard work to fighting, cooperation against heavy stacked against odds. Honestly this is like Dwarf Fortress where loosing can be fun, learning to adapting. I do play upon both sides be it engineer, medic, doctor, etc. Same with the alien's side.

Kind of, just the feeling of topping a victory over whom knows what. Enemies out numbering you, surrounded, etc. To be honest more often than not in some job roles/positions, it's stressing or trying to await through dull shifts on their end, not much to do. Think there was a few rounds being a doctor, we never really had a single patient come up. Engineering the most some could do is experiment with the engine a bit, but once it's set up, generally you are needed as often repair requests for the drop-ship aren't needed.

Sure there's occasionally an alien that may get on board, but doesn't always happen. Part of the value in winning is how challenging conditions get.