This Weekends Xeno Update has some adjustments...

[Dyne]

If you're pounced by a runner, you're down for a very short time, barely enough to use their huggers.

Please. It only takes a moment.
And with the current timer you dont even need huggers.
Pounce-slash/slash, run, pounce out.

[apophis775]

Good points: caste limits.
Not so good points: Doombunnies and GatlingSpitGuns.

Overall a fun update.
Sadly it in no way improves xeno coordination and communication.

Can we please ask coders to do some work on the long proposed 'Make higher tiers louder in Hivemind' idea?

When we get to it.

By coders, I assume you mean currently "Me", since Infernus is working on something special ATM you'll see soon, and Snail is finishing his finals (I think?).




Also, this update, is changing gameplay sort of how I wanted. I want solo-marines to get totally and unequivocally FUCKED.

And there will be Tier Limit soon, which will limit some of the stuff. Someone earlier said they had trouble against a carrier/crusher with a squad, which is how it should be. Because a Carrier/Crusher combo, is probably filling all the T3 slots for the Xenos.

And if you don't want to be "tackle-slashed" have someone with a shield in front (tackling a shield, gives a 50% chance to just stun the Xeno) or STAY IN YOUR SQUAD.

I shan't cater to rambos.

[Dyne]

Tier limit is a great idea.

Tackle isnt that much of a problem as a Doombunny that jumps in, recks, jumps out.
Essentially a xeno ignores the shieldbearer, jumps on the next one, runs off.
Possible to counter with mines and sentries, but not so much with anything else.

[MrJJJ]

Tier limit is a great idea.

Tackle isnt that much of a problem as a Doombunny that jumps in, recks, jumps out.
Essentially a xeno ignores the shieldbearer, jumps on the next one, runs off.
Possible to counter with mines and sentries, but not so much with anything else.

Have you even pounced as runner? hosts get up in like a mini second the momment you pounce, allowing them to instantly move away from you the momment you change your intent into harm to slash their ass, its more usefull to disarm them and quickly drop the hugger to use TBH

[Dyne]

Have you even pounced as runner? hosts get up in like a mini second the momment you pounce, allowing them to instantly move away from you the momment you change your intent into harm to slash their ass, its more usefull to disarm them and quickly drop the hugger to use TBH

Yep, I have. Its scary Doombunny.
And you can pounce on harm already, if you are up to it, or use hotkeys for intent switch.

[MrJJJ]

Yep, I have. Its scary Doombunny.
And you can pounce on harm already, if you are up to it, or use hotkeys for intent switch.

As i said, hosts take a mini second to get up, you can get 1 slash in if you already on harm, and with hotkeys (which i use) to change intent i was still unable to get a slash in

[lcass123]

So I had a little discussion with apop about this on the server which was quite interesting , I do feel that if it does take an hour or so to get to fully evolved then you are basically going to have one person with that and they will have probably just been hobbling around the hive for an hour not really doing anything , this brings up the issue that runners get killed pretty damn quickly and the chance they will survive that long is tiny. I think overall the time needs reducing so that it is easy for the castes with a lower chance of survival to upgrade otherwise you just end up with a silly amount of T1 with advanced ayylamlien because they get killed every other second. What happens when you have say 13 aliens? How do the proportions work out , do you round up the max number per caste so you would have 3 t2 and 3 t3 or does it stay at 2?

Regarding the actual layout of the proportions I think it should be maintained independently with each caste so that having a bunch of hivelords hogging up all the positions doesn't happen and maybe only allow certain castes to be chosen given the number of people playing each caste. Eg 70% of people can be runners/hunter caste and 30% can be sentinel/spitter caste , the reason I say this is during a few previous round I found that they got a bit spammy with boilers etc because they were so powerful and which debuffing boilers is a solution it does take away the fun from playing as a boiler.

I think a sort of talent system should be added regarding the upgrades instead of the one time evolution , for instance instead of getting all your abilities with 1 upgrade and having 1 huge sprite change why not allow a new ability to be picked each time you upgrade (from a list) and with this ability your appearance is changed. So you could have a runner gain a stealth ability which turns their carapace black and allows them to become almost invisible with a severe speed impediment.
The more you upgrade the more devastating the abilities become so a higher level sentinel may be able to upgrade and choose to get bombard which changes their sprite significantly and gives them a big yellow chin (think of the head of the boiler). This would need some integration with the previously described systems because it basically throws away with evolving at all and instead allows for custom aliens which I think is quite a neat idea although the balancing needed would be immense.

[Egorkor]

runners don't die quickly anymore because they become hunters in 10 minutes.

[Jroinc1]

How are you going to deal with "tier-locking"?
20 xenos, so 2 can be tier 2, 2 can be tier 3.

What if I evolve to spitter, and someone else goes hunter, and then we both pick advanced options? How will the tier 3 slots be filled, since no one can evolve to tier 2 to GET to tier 3?

[Viveret]

At least with the tier limits we may limit the ridiculousness of the praespam.

The update is good for rambos. I like dealing with runners now that they don't paw at you.

Edit: By good I mean bad. Also, survivor is immensely hard to play now.

[lcass123]

I do think that survivors need something a bi better to start with , even something as simple as a backpack with very basic weaponry.

[Moonloon]

I do think that survivors need something a bi better to start with , even something as simple as a backpack with very basic weaponry.

The map has a ridiculous amount of russki guns scattered about. It's really easy to get armed to the teeth as a survivor, especially if you're willing to take a risk and go past the river.

[lcass123]

Yes but the issue is it ends up being 2 - 3 guys against 8 runners which never ends well , there is no moderately easy way to access secure areas I mean even something like opening up the armoury but leaving it empty would be enough because it provides a defensive position.

[Mitchs98]

Liking the update so far. Xenos seem a BIT OP due to all the buffs, but this'll be fixed when the caste limit gets put into place. Good work ^-^

[MrJJJ]

Yes but the issue is it ends up being 2 - 3 guys against 8 runners which never ends well , there is no moderately easy way to access secure areas I mean even something like opening up the armoury but leaving it empty would be enough because it provides a defensive position.

Uh, field strip dragunov, then sit somewhere and turn on burst fire, 2-3 shots will put them down into crit, and this is not even speaking about mar-40 rifle and mar-30 carbine, so if you can't kill 8 runners as 2-3 survivors in security/engineering/securestorage/corporate compound, then that is your problem all alone

[apophis775]

So, let me explain something to you.
It's called "imperfect balance" and it's what you want in a game like this.

The enjoyment and fun for a game like CM, comes from being overwhelmed and outmatched. There are NOWHERE NEAR AS MANY stories about heroic times you hunted the last Xeno into extinction, or the standard assault into the hive.

The stories, and a lot of the enjoyment and stuff that stays with us from CM, are the times when your outmactched and SURVIVE.

One of my favorite times in CM, was when me and 3 others got stuck in the center of the FOB after covering a medical-evac. We had 1 single turret that we set to 360 degree and a bunch of barricdes. Eventually, we weathered the waves of probably 6-8 attacks by all matter of Xenos before reinforcements arrived to releive us. By that time, we were all a blood mess and nearly dead, but the fun came from how outmatched we were, and how we stood like a rock in a storm.

Or look at our example photos, "Last stand" of the Marines holding the bridge against an onslaught of Xenos, desperately hoping for some sort of aid or help.

Our goal, is to create moments like that. Moments, when the marines are pushed back as far as they can be, and the aliens just keep on coming. It gives a similar feel to the Aliens Movie, when the marines were just totally overwhelmed.

Our balance is (and will always be) skewed towards the Aliens being able to overpower the marines. Because if it was a perfect balance (which is nearly impossible) the game would get repetitive and boring. Having it skewed so the Aliens have an advantage does a lot of things.

Firstly, it ensures there's ALWAYS tension on the marine side. A single marine that wanders off alone, should be totally WRECKED by even a solo-runner.
Second, it gives the marines something to fight against that's a challenge.
Third, when the marines DO achieve victory, it feels better overall. That you came together and overcame and actual challenge in the opposition.

For me as a designer, I really want to give the feeling of accomplishment that marines might feel after a lengthy battle which has decimated both sides, as well as keep marines always scared to venture too far alone or with too few forces.

[Boltersam]

Apop, somehow it's working. A few days ago I saw a HORDE of T1-2 Xenos suicide rush a turret, and they didn't even try to save themselves, they actually went all in! Four of them died, but they still took down the damn sentry!

People aren't so worried about saving their own hide, since they can quickly get back to where they were if they die. That actually looked like Xenos, not just resprited cowardly marines. I hope to see much more of this behaviour in the future.

Y'know, this is the kind've stuff that makes me want to take a course in Psychology in college.

[LordLoko]

To be fair, xenos can quickly respawn if they were smart and infected every monkey possible.

[lcass123]

I think that whilst having the aliens always slightly more powerful than the marines is a good thing it should not result in the marines losing basically every round , during my time on the server yesterday I think there were at most 2 marine victories and well over double that in terms of alien victories. Whilst the aim of this might be to stop the game getting repetitive it really doesn't , sure you get last stands and memorable moments but they are all very similar. For instance your last stand in the bridge must have happened 4 times yesterday and it was very similar with the only differences being how long they defended and which aliens tore their heads off , the actual chance of winning that situation is probably 0 which is something that makes doing it at all slightly futile. The other thing I observed yesterday was an excellent defence set-up in the sulaco with full plasteel supports and turrets set up all around the rasputin with basically every marine firing their weapon , what happened? They all got slaughtered extremely quickly , they were even flanked just head on assault from the xenos. The amount of team work that went into that was immense and yet 4 xenos died , this is where balancing becomes an issue.

Way back a few months ago before all the xeno-roids I remember setting up a defence inside engineering and not even having turrets with 3 marines myself included surrounded by tables and false walls , a huge assault of xenos occured however due to good defensive positions and covering all sides most of them were killed off and only after having one of the other marines die and all the walls being melted did they actually take hold. That was a memorable moment because it showed that good defence allowed the marines to keep a foothold against the aliens and gave them a fighting chance. I don't want to go back to launch way back last year where it was marines every other round I agree that is always pretty shitty because it ends up being really drawn out as the xenos slowly spawn in but there should be at least a decent chance that a proper defence can hold up against their assaults.

[apophis775]

The thing is, what's more interesting in a round?

A quick Marine victory on the planet, or a slow and brutal marine defeat as they fight for every single tile of space they have to give up?

Personally, I think the rounds when marines lose are more fun/interesting and present more of a challenge.

[lcass123]

I don't mean a quick marine victory quite the opposite , I mean allow the marines to put up a good defence not a good assault. The weapons in their current state are perfectly fine but the actual methods of defence are sub par and often result in total destruction , I agree that the marines should get slaughtered unless they do a proper assault on the caves but I also think that have an equal number of xenos attacking head first into a well defended room of an equal number of marines should atleast give the marines a good chance of defending. Most if not all times this happens the aliens come out victorious with the marines doing significant damage but there being no way they could win.

[jalen earl]

Problem with marines is the same problem that effects xenos too many solo rambos. Usually some specialist or 2-3 in a high pop round thinking they can bust a hive and end up forfeiting sadars,grenades,snipers etc
When taken

or a huge fob but not enough marines to cover it usually ending up with all the marines at the north of tcomms and xenos flanking from the south. This is the same tactic i use all the time , lead a strike team under the pod landing with a crusher or rav and through the back door of the fob.

Marines would take a hive easy if they actually flanked as well but most hive assaults are cramming 20 guys into a bottleneck and dying from friendly fire

[lcass123]

couldn't agree with that more actually , the number of rounds where I have died to friendly fire are far greater than the number of rounds I have died to aliens. I would say ramboers are one of the main causes but I also think just generally not listening to your leaders orders results in deaths.

I will say that with the last few rounds I have played the more competent I have noticed the marines are and infact the more victories that have occured and whilst I still think there should be more in the way of marine defence I will retract my statement that it is pretty terrible and infact defences are frequently successful.

[jalen earl]

There was one round I remember where the marines dug a tunnel into the hive during an assault,a really simple idea. Xenos were too busy to form a defensive line at the tunnel because of the main push and ended up losing that hive because of it.

I personally love this update as its going to force tactic changes for marines if they want to win

[lcass123]

How do you build a tunnel? I thought that only hivelords could do it.