Whiskey Outpost feedback thread

[Infernus]

So, we had a pretty fun gamemode few rounds ago.

To help me rebalance and fix this faster, post your feedback here. Did the waves spawn too little xenos? Were they way too slow at beginning, and way too fast at the end? Did marines have enough ammo and equipment that came with supply drops trough the whole round?
What was the most useful thing you got from those supplies, what was not?

Here is my plan on fixing and changing over the next few days:

General:

• Rebalance waves. Minimum wave time raised up, big break before Teir III arrives
• At the last defense lane (Closest to the middle), replace rocks with bushes so it is easier for marines to defend it, as bushes can be cleared to shoot further
• Make medbay doors ID restricted so aliens cannot rush it

Marines:

• Replace pump shotguns with combat shotguns
• SLs spawn with machetes
• Buff fire damage against bushes
• Stationary middle turrets should be set to burst mode
• Ammo drops should be more common and should spawn with more ammo
• Give some advanced meds to doctors
• Some marines should spawn with a knife
• Spread out starting positions even more

Aliens:

• Runners should not pass tables or barriers anymore

[coolsurf6]

To be honest, what is this gamemode? Is it official or was it just a random thing?

[Infernus]

It is official.
Marines spawn on whiskey outpost map and must hold it for 1 hour until main forces arrive. They get supplies every wave if the Commander is alive.
They have 4 sides to defend, with 3 layers of defenses, with medbay in the middle.

Xenos spawn in masses every wave with health regen disabled, but with join delay removed, so as soon as you die, you can take a new one and shove yourself in marine defenses. Xenos spawn faster and faster and with stronger castes after each next wave.

That was a first public test, so it had some issues.
We tested 2 times with 6 admins and I fixed all the bugs we could find. Now it is time to rebalance it.

[coolsurf6]

Uhhh wait is this CM? I think this suits it better than the default way... Survival against marines, being held up waiting for reinforcements. But what of friendly fire? will broken bones be removed for just extra brute?

[Egorkor]

when is the next est, missed this one?

[Ocnjak20]

It is official.
Marines spawn on whiskey outpost map and must hold it for 1 hour until main forces arrive. They get supplies every wave if the Commander is alive.
They have 4 sides to defend, with 3 layers of defenses, with medbay in the middle.

Xenos spawn in masses every wave with health regen disabled, but with join delay removed, so as soon as you die, you can take a new one and shove yourself in marine defenses. Xenos spawn faster and faster and with stronger castes after each next wave.

That was a first public test, so it had some issues.
We tested 2 times with 6 admins and I fixed all the bugs we could find. Now it is time to rebalance it.

Nice one just by seeing it I already love it. Enable friendly fire, that would be reality but make penalty for those that shoot their teammates. Overall I would love to play it sometimes

[LordLoko]

When we are doing this next? I don't want to live forever.

[Infernus]

In a day or two, maybe even in few hours if I manage to fix it quickly.

[Feweh]

PLEASE expand the actual outpost.
Its just a giant medbay currently.

And add the drop pod area as you said for special stuff/erts etc.

[Infernus]

Middle area will be expanded later, when this gets stable enough.
Once I'm done with balancing and fixing, I'll talk with Apophis about some special events we may add and talk about expanding it.

[Fritigern]

So I've played on the map three times now and I think I can generate some thoughts on the matter.

I completely understand the horde-mode nature of the map and that marines are basically being set up to fail, but I feel like their collapse happens too quickly, and there are many reasons leading to that. Some can be accounted for, others can't.

Things that are out of everyone's control would be things like bad doctors and command staff, who basically give no orders. Can't really fix that, but it makes a big difference.

Some issues that could be addressed, though? The alien respawn timer right now is too oppressive, I'd say. There is no room for personal drama in the story of the outpost. There's barely any time to register who the people standing next to you even are, and you hardly notice if they get killed or wounded because you're too busy focusing on the constant stream of aliens to notice or care, you just know you're losing people. I find that pretty dull, honestly. Having just a minute between waves to catch your breath and go "Oh boy we lived!" would be really nice. I think that would improve the overall feel of the map.

Just some random observations and gameplay gripes: Medical should start off with some more advanced drugs ready to go from the start. Right now you could very easily get injured at the start of the round and never make it out of the medical area before the end happens. The attack 'lanes' could stand to be wider. Reduce the obstructing vegetation in the lanes by around half. Aliens don't need it to hide or sneak up on marines, they only have to throw themselves at the marines and they'll win anyways, and very easily at that. Put the machetes on the squad leaders on spawn, rather than have the only 4 that exist laying on the ground for some idiot to run by and grab and never be seen again, especially when they're all you have to clear out further vegetation. Shotguns need to be fixed, right now they are buggy. The supply drop system needs some changes, maybe have conveyor tracks going out in the cardinal directions so that you can load a crate of supplies and have it sent to those lanes from the central area, instead of making people do runs. A more predictable stream of medical supplies and ammo would be nice. Specialists that get anything other than smartguns feel extremely useless, I'd just give all of them that as default so they continue to be combat effective. Oh, and give marines their boot knives. Everyone wants to see the last marine stabbing a ravager with a knife before he gets torn apart.

Overall, fun mode but needs some balance and quality of life changes.

[LordLoko]

Can we have a picture of the map?

[forwardslashN]

Some issues that could be addressed, though? The alien respawn timer right now is too oppressive, I'd say. There is no room for personal drama in the story of the outpost. There's barely any time to register who the people standing next to you even are, and you hardly notice if they get killed or wounded because you're too busy focusing on the constant stream of aliens to notice or care, you just know you're losing people. I find that pretty dull, honestly. Having just a minute between waves to catch your breath and go "Oh boy we lived!" would be really nice. I think that would improve the overall feel of the map.

I agree with this. The first time we ran it, the delay between jumping into a xeno made waves a joke. Now we need some breathing room for the marines since aliens respawn immediately.

[Tristan63]

Give us a citadel to defend and it shall be ours.

For the emperor.

[Rob606]

A general rule of game design for wave-style gameplay is that the players need adequate breathing time between waves. This is definitely needed at the moment.

On top of that, the map is far too tight - It's easy for runners to break through and just get to the centre in less than a minute and start fucking up the doctors.

[Tornadium]

Main issue is friendly fire caused by runners being able to run past all of the defenses with nothing to stop them.

In the last test Alpha lost 8 marines in the first 25 seconds of the first wave because the idiot SL decided to spray the entire line of marines in an attempt to kill one runner that got through.

All 8 marines never made it out of medbay due to incompetent doctors. Having the aliens have to break the defenses instead of running past them (especially with how fast they respawn without the delay) would be a great fix I think.

[SovietKitty]

I'm not sure what's listed so I'll just state what I think should happen without pointing out the obvious.

* Incendiary grenades should burn down vegetation/dense forestry.
* The long winding flanks should be removed because you're not really incentivized to actually move forward it would just be smarter to focus your one squad where you can't get flanked. Or maybe the Marines will just smarten up to it.
* Would it be possible to add a preference tab that you start with?
* Runners and the plasteel barricades seem to be a problem.
* Creative use of the colony flood lights can create an obscene chokepoint until acid ruins your day.
* Magical cryo bone healing gel. Or just get better Doctors, or just don't get shot.
* It might just be me, but aliens seem to be ramping up way to fast / rapidly during the mid game of the hold out. But again the map is new.
* I personally think some of the lanes are too wide.

[Infernus]

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1. Incendiary grenades should burn down vegetation/dense forestry.

It does. I'll buff the damage so it takes it down quicker.

2. The long winding flanks should be removed because you're not really incentivized to actually move forward it would just be smarter to focus your one squad where you can't get flanked. Or maybe the Marines will just smarten up to it.

I'll talk with Apophis. It is not hard to cover the flanks. One guy is enough to defend a 2x wide tunnel, provided that he placed barricades.

3. Would it be possible to add a preference tab that you start with?

What do you mean? For weapons?

4. Runners and the plasteel barricades seem to be a problem.

Runners can no longer run past them.

5. Creative use of the colony flood lights can create an obscene chokepoint until acid ruins your day.

If they use it for defensive purposes, it's their problem.

6. Magical cryo bone healing gel. Or just get better Doctors, or just don't get shot.

Maybe. We'll see how the next test will look like with runners not able to run past the tables.

7. It might just be me, but aliens seem to be ramping up way to fast / rapidly during the mid game of the hold out. But again the map is new.

Yeah. I upped the timers and made a biggish break before the tier III castes start coming.

8. I personally think some of the lanes are too wide.

If they are too short, marines wont have enough place for them to defend.

Can we have a picture of the map?

You can follow the progress on the first page.

[Sargeantmuffinman]

The map was not meant for 120 people.

And we had an abundace of supplies once they started to drop.

With runners going under metal barricades (no idea if that was intentional or not).

Shit hit the fan VERY quickly. Very fun.

But, it was fun to hold out against the hordes of the xeno masses!

[MrJJJ]

Its preety fun, especially when xenos have no regen, makes "HORDE RUSH THEM, EVEN ONE SLASH WILL BE GOOD ENOUGH AS LONG AS IT DOES DAMAGE FROM YOU" more better, makes fire more dangerous as well

[Joe4444]

maybe have a way to pick what gun you have? Alpha was full of buggy shotguns except for one guy who had a M41A and me who had a SMG.A way to pick your guns would be good, Maybe a way to fix broken bones faster? less cover for the xenos? its a horde mode right? so the xenos should be pressured into charging into the marine ranks not sitting behind a rock trying to get us to waste our ammo.

[Infernus]

I replaced pump shotguns with combat shotguns (requires no pumping, thus no bugs).
I'll think of a way to let you choose your gun.

[Joe4444]

I replaced pump shotguns with combat shotguns (requires no pumping, thus no bugs).
I'll think of a way to let you choose your gun.

maybe a pop up menu with a list of guns to choose from?

[Nubs]

Its a game mode that shows alot of potential and it will be fun to test as it changes and improves:

my suggestions:

Small armoury with say, 5 rifles, 5 shotties and 5 smgs in the commander's quarters that can only be opened by him.
Medbay should spawn with, (or a special chem vendor that slowly refills) with bicardine, peridaxon, etc.
New chemical (only for WO) Calcitofix: 5 u fixes 1 broken bone, but causes immense pain while doing so, and moderate tox damage, so you can't use it in combat or immediately jump back into the fray.
Medibot spawns in the medbay.
Each engineer to get a small amount of plasteel? 10 sheets or so?
Docs spawn with armour and helmet, as the colony is hella dangerous.
Ability to move and change the setting of the preplaced turrets.
Recycler accepts empty weapons, mags, unused armour and helmets, giving a good chance to later supply these items.
Commander gets an announcement computer (if they don't already)

[SpanishBirdman]

One problem I ran into a couple times was jumping into abandoned dying xenos. Someone would get critted and ghost out of the xeno, resulting in a me taking it over and immediately being in crit for the rest of my life. If crit xenos died faster when not on weeds this wouldn't be an issue.