New sprite evaluation/improvement discussion

[Monoo]

I've gotten a chance to see the new sprites and am thoroughly impressed with the amount of work and detail that's gone into them. However, I have some constructive criticism to offer. Anyone that feels the need can add to this list, and hopefully staff sees and evaluates our collective opinions.

- The stance of all the alien castes is very wide. Feet are planted far apart. SS13's movement system does not have any form of walking animation, so the sprites that look the best moving around are the ones with legs close together. All the old xeno sprites had this setup, and looked much better and less stiff while moving.

- One of the most important features of team and/or class-based gameplay is the ability of players to easily tell the difference between types of opponents. Our old xeno sprites were able to be told apart at a moment's notice; Hivelords and Praetorians were immediately separated by color, and Sentinels and Hunters by posture. The new sprites do VERY little to separate alien castes, and it is much harder for a marine to notice at a glance what, exactly, they're fighting - something that can cause them to make fatal mistakes.

- No sprite for the change between stalk/hunt.

- The huggers on the new Carrier's back are brown. Hugger sprites are tan. One of the two needs to be moved to the other for the sake of continuity and immersion.

- The head crest is missing from the Hivelord. I'm not sure if this was an intentional design choice, but it doesn't make sense considering all upper casts have a larger crest. HIvelord currently looks like a Drone on stilts.

- The tails are a bit too complex. They spread over onto other tiles and obscure objects on the ground, as well as appearing extremely stiff during movement. The old tail positions were much better and more streamlined in this regard.

- The current xenomorph color pallet is much too dark to fit in with the Colonial Marines and general SS13 artstyle. The sprites all need to be lightened up a bit and made maybe a bit less blurry so that we can see actual features better.

- Crusher has no charging animations.

[masterspots]

They look like the dumb stick aliens from men in black.

[TopHatPenguin]

- The stance of all the alien castes is very wide. Feet are planted far apart. SS13's movement system does not have any form of walking animation, so the sprites that look the best moving around are the ones with legs close together. All the old xeno sprites had this setup, and looked much better and less stiff while moving.

I think this is probably the main one that makes it break immersion for me.

[RoswellRay]

The aliens really don't have the same feel of the game like the old ones and the marines do. They are almost too detailed and rigid it feels like if you cut a photo out of a magazine and started moving it around by hand on the map. I don't know how to fix this exactly but they just feel like they don't fit with the rest of the world around them.

[ParadoxSpace]

The aliens really don't have the same feel of the game like the old ones and the marines do. The feel like very obvious shoehorned in cardboard cuttouts or chess pieces moving on a board and it's honestly makes it a bit harder to stay immersed. I don't know how to fix this exactly but they just feel like they don't fit with the rest of the world around them.

Apop said that the rest of the sprites are going to be updated to fit.

[Monoo]

Apop said that the rest of the sprites are going to be updated to fit.

That... doesn't quite make sense. This is SS13, not some grimdark Garry's Mod XenoRP. That's honestly one of the things I would change the most about the sprites. Make them brighter.

Again, Apop and crew has worked hard to bring this update, but I'd rather they not base future updates entirely on their own personal opinions. Things like the Star Wars prequels have shown that giving one person the sole right of creative development isn't the best choice.

[Adelarth]

The sideways sprites aren't bad. The main problem imho are the facing north/south sprites. That and that the dead sprites having brown blood....

[NoShamNoWow]

The sprites don't fit our sprite style whatsoever, and I don't think anyone wants this server do be grim and dark. Bring back the old xenos sprites pls.

[ParadoxSpace]

Personally, I'd love the server to be more grim and dark.

[Varnock]

Having had a chance to look at the sprites, but not see them in action, I'm pretty in the middle.

I like the larva, huggers, and Ravs from what I've seen, but am meh on the T1 and T2s.

Queen and Prae look pretty similar when facing south too, but I'm pretty sure that's canonish anyways.

[RoswellRay]

I made this picture to express how I fell about the new xeno sprites.

[Fritigern]

Can someone please post the sprite images so we can discuss them? In particular I actually like the new silhouette of the runner, but I think it would look better with different shading and I'd like to take a crack at offering an alternative.

[Joe4444]

I have a small thing about the boiler sprite...it looks like its wearing a backpack. I think it'd be better if it has its entire back orange now just the small bit that looks like a engineering backpack gone wrong

[Morrinn]

I don't want to be harsh. Whoever made those sprites obviously put a lot of effort into them. That being said, WJohn's original xeno sprites were amazing, highly stylized and wonderfully crisp. The updated WJ sprites that were present in the code were even better, and I always wondered why they weren't rolled out.

So, the new sprites... I mean, I guess I can sort of see CM going for a certain look. The palette has a fairly distinct style to it I suppose, and it's not a terrible color scheme. It's a little drab for my taste, but to each his own. The sprites themselves though, I can't stand them. The posture is goofy, the texture is messy and the whole thing looks off.

We had a problem with the old carrier model where since the sprite was slightly up scaled, the sprite was fairly blurry. I would have thought someone would have learned from that error, but it seems some of the new sprites fall into the same pit trap. The new runner is blurry and some of the tier 2's also seem like they are out of focus.

If the server runners are happy with the change and stick with it, that's their prerogative of course. I'm not angrily demanding they reverse their decisions or anything, but for me, the new aesthetics are enough to put me off CM for a while, probably for good.

[Fridge]

Can someone please post the sprite images so we can discuss them? In particular I actually like the new silhouette of the runner, but I think it would look better with different shading and I'd like to take a crack at offering an alternative.

I would but that would probably mean probably posting all the raw sprites which apop wouldn't like but I do have a few sprites here and there people could look at if they'd like. When I get time this week I'll probably be spending it on the T1s. I think the current sprites might be adjusted and smoothed a bit to become walking sprites and make new ones for running. I haven't decided yet.

[Tristan63]

Id like to point out their heads face the sky all the time.

[Fritigern]

I would but that would probably mean probably posting all the raw sprites which apop wouldn't like but I do have a few sprites here and there people could look at if they'd like. When I get time this week I'll probably be spending it on the T1s. I think the current sprites might be adjusted and smoothed a bit to become walking sprites and make new ones for running. I haven't decided yet.

Is there a rule against posting the raw sprite images?

[an confused rock]

why don't crushers have charging sprites

[Monoo]

why don't crushers have charging sprites

Added to the OP

[Ocnjak20]

Jeebus guys, stop stomping the team. Be happy that they are updating stuff and making it interesting. Sprites do require some polishing and it will happen with time. They've wanted to show us what to expect of ss13 in the future and right now as their sprite making has advanced quite a lot. I like the new aliens, and cant wait to see the sprites being finished and everything else that has to be added in.

[Monoo]

How is this in any way stomping on the team? We're practicing constructive criticism here and trying to work with all parties to make the sprites look their best.

[apophis775]

Is there a rule against posting the raw sprite images?

Without confirming with me first, it's a huge violation of the trust placed into them as developers, since they have access to a LOT of resources on our closed source.

[jalen earl]

Biggest thing for me is stances. Especially on the t2 s the feet and angle of head just dont look right. And the t3s look cool but are just too detailed and dont match the surrounding world

[apophis775]

Yeah, right now the stances are duplicates. I think one of the things on the list, is that we are going to adjust the stances a bit.

[jalen earl]

Yeah, right now the stances are duplicates. I think one of the things on the list, is that we are going to adjust the stances a bit.

Less upright more forward leaning on t2s and less forward leaning on the t3s would be a good start as they kinda look like they are in a perpetual sprinters starting stance