The feeling of hopelessness (could we fight this?)

[Dailychaos101]

Being cuffed makes it so they can't nade. So them being able to blow themselves up is slightly the aliens fault.

So now aliens have to keep marines cuffed all the time or risk a grenade? I can guarantee that not even a single marine has ever been cuffed all the time while nested if they where at least somewhat attempting to break free. You just break free, attempt to remove cuffs, get nested and finish while nested. I have only once been recuffed before being able to remove the old ones and rarely get recuffed again after breaking them. This is not the fault of the aliens but rather because it is difficult for the few that can cuff to keep track of all the nests and recuff people, especially considering that there is no visual ways to tell if they are cuffed. The aliens are always less numerous until the very end so to change things so even more aliens have to stay in the hive and watch hosts would require balance changes elsewhere.

[Kreydis]

So now aliens have to keep marines cuffed all the time or risk a grenade? I can guarantee that not even a single marine has ever been cuffed all the time while nested if they where at least somewhat attempting to break free. You just break free, attempt to remove cuffs, get nested and finish while nested. I have only once been recuffed before being able to remove the old ones and rarely get recuffed again after breaking them. This is not the fault of the aliens but rather because it is difficult for the few that can cuff to keep track of all the nests and recuff people, especially considering that there is no visual ways to tell if they are cuffed. The aliens are always less numerous until the very end so to change things so even more aliens have to stay in the hive and watch hosts would require balance changes elsewhere.

You missed my point entirely, before you used to have no options. Now you do.

[Dailychaos101]

You missed my point entirely, before you used to have no options. Now you do.

And you missed my point. Giving the marines this option would be unfair to the aliens. The reason why it takes time to burst is so the aliens have to set up a nest and defend it and so marines have an opportunity to save their comrades. Marines nested shouldn't be able to easily break out or commit suicide. They should require some sort of assistance to really do anything, whether that means marines coming to save them or coordination with marines already down there. Any easier and all of a sudden you have another problem of aliens complaining about having many aliens have to stay in the hive doing nothing but watching marines in nests, occasionally recuffing them and putting them back in nests. This really just shifts the problem of the nesting process from be boring for marines to being boring for aliens while also being resource intensive and potential requiring further rebalancing.

[Mech__Warrior]

I usually have another weapon on me (Usually a pulse rifle) just in case I get caught so I can raise a little bit of hell after I'm captured. I managed to escape the hive once with two other marines, so it's not entirely hopeless. The situation is definitely against you but you should never lose hope. If you lose hope and the will to fight, then the enemy has already won. Now that they're doing away with cloning, I can't help but feel being infected is more of a death sentence now than ever if you can't get to a doc in time. Few marines make it back as it stands.

[Kreydis]

-Snip-

You're taking everything I'm saying out of context to hell and back. I don't give a shit about this new proposed mechanic, I don't give a shit about your ideas on gameplay, I don't give a shit about you at all. All I was saying is that aliens now have a method of stopping suicide grenades. Not a good one, but it's fucking better then the >pop up BOOOOOOOM< That was months ago.

[Dailychaos101]

You're taking everything I'm saying out of context to hell and back. I don't give a shit about this new proposed mechanic, I don't give a shit about your ideas on gameplay, I don't give a shit about you at all. All I was saying is that aliens now have a method of stopping suicide grenades. Not a good one, but it's fucking better then the >pop up BOOOOOOOM< That was months ago.

Oh, I thought you were defending the mechanic that person proposed that I was disagreeing with. My bad. Now I feel like an idiot.

[Desolane900]

you are not supposed to be the most robust marine on the server.

Yes, that title belongs to me.

[MrJJJ]

You have more than enough opportunity to fight back. I've escaped xeno cuffs, checker hives, checker hives in the caves, and so forth numerous times. I've taken down tier 3s with me in the hive itself with a knife, while infected, and I've seen infected marines kill off the hive after escaping. Really competent marines don't even get captured a lot of the time, they go down fighting instead.

Look, no Offense, but because "i did this a few times" means nothing, You are one guy, different skill level, different circumstances each round, what you said is essentially worthless other than just bragging about yourself, majority never escape, minority do, yes this is not the norm, but bragging it about it just makes you look silly really, just because the xeno team was bad or because they left you alone or because they were busy with something else isint what happens EVERY single round to everyone, you know?

[forwardslashN]

Look, no Offense, but because "i did this a few times" means nothing, You are one guy, different skill level, different circumstances each round, what you said is essentially worthless other than just bragging about yourself, majority never escape, minority do, yes this is not the norm, but bragging it about it just makes you look silly really, just because the xeno team was bad or because they left you alone or because they were busy with something else isint what happens EVERY single round to everyone, you know?

By that logic, anyone that says anything about their personal experience has no clue what they are talking about. That is obviously not everyone's experience because it is my experience, and escaping nests isn't even remotely an accomplishment in my opinion. If I wanted to brag, I would have picked something better.

[MrJJJ]

By that logic, anyone that says anything about their personal experience has no clue what they are talking about. That is obviously not everyone's experience because it is my experience, and escaping nests isn't even remotely an accomplishment in my opinion. If I wanted to brag, I would have picked something better.

Yet you still told us about it to show that its "possible" to escape..

[Youngblood]

Yet you still told us about it to show that its "possible" to escape..

That's literally the point of his post, it's possible, yet highly improbable (and rightfully so). It would be a disaster if escaping the nest were a common occurence and thus considered a piece of cake. The way things are set up, it very much looks like you're supposed to look for a gap, any lucky chain of events that leads to the possibility of escape. (arguably bad) aliens, that happen to be busy with something else like a marine assault or other survivors trying to flee, is exactly what you should be looking for. Without any of the above taking place, you should probably just accept the fact that you're holding the shit end of the stick and won't be coming out on top when you put up a last stand.

[Kreydis]

If I wanted to brag, I would have picked something better.

I placed C4 on a non afk queen while escaping as a survivor. Aliens didn't know how to alt click and trying to knock down a marine 1 square above a t3 is a paiiiiiiinnnn.

[MrJJJ]

That's literally the point of his post, it's possible, yet highly improbable (and rightfully so). It would be a disaster if escaping the nest were a common occurence and thus considered a piece of cake. The way things are set up, it very much looks like you're supposed to look for a gap, any lucky chain of events that leads to the possibility of escape. (arguably bad) aliens, that happen to be busy with something else like a marine assault or other survivors trying to flee, is exactly what you should be looking for. Without any of the above taking place, you should probably just accept the fact that you're holding the shit end of the stick and won't be coming out on top when you put up a last stand.

Well here is a thing for you buddy
Its ridiclously easy, team or no team, to get infected, just simply due to the arsenal and abilities of xenos they willing to do to win
Almost all the games you WILL be nested because someone didint pull you, because you where in crit from some asshole, etc
This is not fine at all, there is nothing of feeling hopelessness other than just feeling cheated that you got stunned so easily and nested forever, which drones sometimes even love to "combat nest" which is even worser

[Renomaki]

It would be a disaster if escaping the nest were a common occurence and thus considered a piece of cake. The way things are set up, it very much looks like you're supposed to look for a gap, any lucky chain of events that leads to the possibility of escape. (arguably bad) aliens, that happen to be busy with something else like a marine assault or other survivors trying to flee, is exactly what you should be looking for. Without any of the above taking place, you should probably just accept the fact that you're holding the shit end of the stick and won't be coming out on top when you put up a last stand.

Honestly, it would be nice to have more of those "The xenos aren't looking, maybe now is my chance" moments, yuh know? Maybe it is just me, but when you have xenos watchin you like a hawk, it does come off as a bit annoying. Sure, you distract a xeno or two for awhile, but until something comes around that draws their eyes away (which is pretty rare in my experience), you are stuck there in a state of frustration.

[forwardslashN]

I placed C4 on a non afk queen while escaping as a survivor. Aliens didn't know how to alt click and trying to knock down a marine 1 square above a t3 is a paiiiiiiinnnn.

I once boxed with a carrier for a good five minutes as an infected after escaping a nest. I eventually got killed, but I'd like to think that was a memorable fight, since the aliens had to kill an unarmed marine. Or that one time I spawned in while the Sully was getting evacced, and got cornered by a crusher+hunter combo in bravo prep. Killed both while missing a leg. Collapsed into crit and died of blood loss shortly after, but that's how it goes. I have a lot more cool moments as a xeno than marine though.

[MrJJJ]

I have a lot more cool moments as a xeno than marine though.

Yeah suprisingly going against more people bring MUCH better momments somehow, it just feels...more acomplished...like as if you REALLY did something amazing...with your skills..

[Renomaki]

Yeah surprisingly going against more people bring MUCH better moments somehow, it just feels...more accomplished...like as if you REALLY did something amazing...with your skills..

You and me both, pal..

Maybe one day I'll get the same riot inducing respect that people like Xur get, and not be considered a bald loser.

[Youngblood]

Honestly, it would be nice to have more of those "The xenos aren't looking, maybe now is my chance" moments, yuh know? Maybe it is just me, but when you have xenos watchin you like a hawk, it does come off as a bit annoying. Sure, you distract a xeno or two for awhile, but until something comes around that draws their eyes away (which is pretty rare in my experience), you are stuck there in a state of frustration.

Perhaps a rule along the lines of "nested people may be periodically checked on, but not camped" would be a compromise then? Just throwing that out there, I realize this may be difficult to enforce and/or leaves room for interpretation. (like can i check on nested players every 2 seconds if i'm not allowed to camp? and so forth)

[Toroic]

Perhaps a rule along the lines of "nested people may be periodically checked on, but not camped" would be a compromise then? Just throwing that out there, I realize this may be difficult to enforce and/or leaves room for interpretation. (like can i check on nested players every 2 seconds if i'm not allowed to camp? and so forth)

Not only is this completely unenforceable...

This is not a movie, you are not the hero.

Unless you can demonstrate otherwise through action, you're just a dumb boot that's destined to die.

You want to be important? Play better.

[Youngblood]

Not only is this completely unenforceable...

This is not a movie, you are not the hero.

Unless you can demonstrate otherwise through action, you're just a dumb boot that's destined to die.

You want to be important? Play better.

I understand that, my previous posts should suffice as evidence for that. I would dare say that it's possible to enforce, difficult sure, but not impossible. This wouldn't be the first competitive game with restrictions on camping. In any case, the source of a lot of issues (and conflicting opinions) seems to stem from balancing between roleplay and what's supposedly realistic, and what allows for competitive, fun gameplay.

[Toroic]

-snip-

I can promise you that the answer is not adding casual mechanics.

Lets keep that in call of duty.

Plus, your suggestion wouldn't be effective even if you could somehow enforce it, because the more annoying you make taking hosts alive the less xenos won't just kill you outright.

[Youngblood]

My proposal wouldn't make taking captives annoying, perhaps retaining them. And "casual" mechanics would probably be the appropriate answer to some extent, if the server is interested in making the playing field more even, and therefor more competitive. I'm okay with things as is (as far as this suggestion goes) and you make valid points, but if we're going to discuss this at all, we're going to have to start going into the specifics.

[Toroic]

My proposal wouldn't make taking captives annoying, perhaps retaining them. And "casual" mechanics would probably be the appropriate answer to some extent, if the server is interested in making the playing field more even, and therefor more competitive. I'm okay with things as is (as far as this suggestion goes) and you make valid points, but if we're going to discuss this at all, we're going to have to start going into the specifics.

Except in a properly built hive, the chance of successful marine escaping is 0. Even if you get out of your checkerboard, you aren't getting through 3 sets of doors and multiple rooms to escape. Effectively, you're dead already, camping or no camping.

Casual mechanics are the opposite of competitive play. If we want to raise the marine win-rate, buff marines or give them new toys.

[Youngblood]

Mechanics and rules can level things out, when they're already (arguably) one-sided.

[Renomaki]

Well, after all this, at least I get my answer to the question at hand. I might not like it, but I guess I'll just have to accept it.