Its time to ban research nades

[TheSpoonyCroy]

-snip-

Seriously all your complaints can easily be countered by range but everyone thinks its a great idea to fist fight a giant space lizard with acid blood (almost a few steps away from 40k just need some chainswords...). Spitters have been nerfed so their spit range is around 4 or 5 tiles (bullets on the other hand are ∞ (infinite) they don't stop moving until they hit something) Queen's stun is around 6 tiles and spacing seems to be your issue there with the being blocked part. Yes a competent researcher (even though making 240u grenades is very simple but mind numbing work) is rare even though it shouldn't be, there should still be rules/restrictions against this incredibly cheap move. Also I hear people always complaining about huggers breaking their skulls but that just because of the brute damage from removal, marines should really learn to stop fighting and heal up since holy hell, playing as a doctor or medic is just a hassle with these suicidal marines (arm hanging from a few tendons, Marine shouts" TIS BE A FLESH WOUND!" shortly before charging back at the xeno threat. Where he dies and complains about incompetent medics in dchat...)

[MrJJJ]

Seriously all your complaints can easily be countered by range

Ironically, this is the same shit i could say with research nades, but we all fucking know that when it comes, there is not much time to get away from it, now is it?

But everyone thinks its a great idea to fist fight a giant space lizard with acid blood (almost a few steps away from 40k just need some chainswords...). Spitters have been nerfed so their spit range is around 4 or 5 tiles (bullets on the other hand are ∞ (infinite) they don't stop moving until they hit something) Queen's stun is around 6 tiles and spacing seems to be your issue there with the being blocked part. Yes a competent researcher (even though making 240u grenades is very simple but mind numbing work) is rare even though it shouldn't be, there should still be rules/restrictions against this incredibly cheap move. Also I hear people always complaining about huggers breaking their skulls but that just because of the brute damage from removal, marines should really learn to stop fighting and heal up since holy hell, playing as a doctor or medic is just a hassle with these suicidal marines (arm hanging from a few tendons, Marine shouts" TIS BE A FLESH WOUND!" shortly before charging back at the xeno threat. Where he dies and complains about incompetent medics in dchat...)

Okay look, marines don't rush to punch a alien, they SHOOT it, or if they lack a weapon, knife it, and most of the time, thanks to accuracy, you have to get close to hit anything, otherwise most of your shots will be missing otherwise, spitters nerf range is basically beh if spitter is on either open ground OR defending a hive or fighting in a closed space, which is what's 90% all fights are, queen's stun 6 tiles is still a big range as well, how is research nades a cheaper move compared to IMMIDEATLEY getting nested after being tackled by a random runner, then having a drone run up and build a nest over you and gg, hug you after they go off to get huggers, then unnest and place you in a more secure one, or even getting repeatedly spammed with neurotoxin as you and 2+ people can't do shit? or you know, queen coming out of a resin door and INSTANTLY Screeching, with no chance to even run away?

Also I hear people always complaining about huggers breaking their skulls but that just because of the brute damage from removal, marines should really learn to stop fighting and heal up since holy hell, playing as a doctor or medic is just a hassle with these suicidal marines (arm hanging from a few tendons, Marine shouts" TIS BE A FLESH WOUND!" shortly before charging back at the xeno threat. Where he dies and complains about incompetent medics in dchat...)

You do realise, marines DO try to heal up, and medics DO try to heal them, but because you are in the squad of at least 6+ people, its preety fucking hard to treat everyone and stay alive yourself NOT getthing hugged, then if they get a broken skull, have to get medivaced before they get enough brain damage to go into perma crit, its not as easy as you damn think, sure, there is a few of those rambos, but its more likely they will die from local ravager than hugger repeatedly fucking his skull

TLDR
Researcher nades don't need a nerf, if you can't deal with it, then its xenos problem they got unlucky, not marines that they got a competent researcher to help them

[TheSpoonyCroy]

-snip-

Again you are missing the point. This is a discussion around the use of research nades on the ship and specifically around the rasp when its landing. To counter your arguments lets go 1 by 1

"Ironically, this is the same shit i could say with research nades, but we all fucking know that when it comes, there is not much time to get away from it, now is it?"

except you aren't stuck in a metal tube that lands in the same exact space every time which stuns the xenos when they touch down even if they rest prior to landing. So the researcher can easily plant all the explosive around the landing site and once it touches down boom, most of hive is dead and they have no counters to that since the rasp is one of the only ways to get on the ship. You can complain that it would realistic if you know the giant space lizards are coming just blow up landing craft ship, yes but you know what would be more realistic saying fuck it we lost enough men to this planet, and glassing the planet but that not fun for either side. Honestly allowing this tactic just brings back memories of bullshit hangar defenses since marines intentionally fall back early just so they have enough men and equipment to make a rock solid hangar defense and win a round that they clearly lost (I do admit their straight banning of all building in the hangar was a tad too far, wished you could at least place down table defenses (which are crap but still better than nothing)).

" you have to get close to hit anything, otherwise most of your shots will be missing otherwise"

If you mod your gun improperly, or just set yourself to burst fire, sure accuracy will be an issue but other than that marines should keep their distance. Xenos are melee fighters after all, yes xenos have tools to close the distance but marines shouldn't be actively running closer to xenos.

"spitters nerf range is basically beh if spitter is on either open ground OR defending a hive or fighting in a closed space, which is what's 90% all fights are"

Yes you are correct most fighting will be in closed and claustrophobic spaces because that general vibe of the aliens franchise (especially the horror attributes to the franchise) but marines need to learn when to pick their fights and move tactically. Seriously using the hive as a rasp comparison is so far from the truth. The Rasp is a confined space while the hive/caves are generally expansive and it has multiple entrances (several of which marines can make on their own with mining tools.)

" queen's stun 6 tiles is still a big range as well"

I want to say I made a guess on the 6 tile range ( I believe in 6 tiles you still get a soft stun ie you stand still for a second or so) but there is only a single queen who can screech, which can be used once before being put on a cooldown of "no clue" while reseracher nades are only limited to how many nades the researcher decided to have in their reserve but it generally X>1. Second part of your complaint from being block when a queen surprises you, the issue is you marines fail to space themselves out, I have seen countless times marines in the caves that are shoulder to shoulder and back to back, so when a surprise queen comes out and screeches and a squad gets wipe its not because its a cheesy move, its because the marines set themselves to fail since being StS/BtB denies them their chance to run or move freely. Yes the first set of people are always going to get fucked but that is a risk of being the pointman

" cheaper move compared to IMMIDEATLEY getting nested after being tackled by a random runner, then having a drone run up and build a nest over you and gg, hug you after they go off to get huggers, then unnest and place you in a more secure one, or even getting repeatedly spammed with neurotoxin as you and 2+ people can't do shit?"

In the scenario you set up, it seems the marines are rushing a tad too quickly and aren't clearing out weeds and are stretching themselves thin. Also this requires quite a decent amount of communications (between the xenos) which seems to be lacking with the marines in this example

"You do realise, marines DO try to heal up, ... its not as easy as you damn think ... his skull"

Yes and No. Yes marines try to heal up but they "try" to do it on the front, if you want to heal up which takes a few minutes sit in the back and not the front, who would of guessed... especially when you are at risk at skull breaking


So to cut a long comment up

• Marines have expansive caves to fight in while xenos have to be stuck in a metal tube that lands in the same exact spot which can easily be rigged with explosives, and this metal tube is likely the xenos' only way onto the main ship
• There is only 1 mass stunning queen around while marines have a pile of mass stunners in a crate somewhere in research
• Xenos get stunned when landing, so they literally can't run away
• Marines are suicidal.... (with their actions and tactics)
• Pointmen will always die, they are meant as fodder
• Sitting in the back is a good thing to do when you need to heal

PS. I'm not even a xeno player, I mostly play on the marine side, I'm just not a person who likes to see cheap shit occur, this doesn't mean the xenos are faultless in this

[MrJJJ]

Again you are missing the point.

I am preety sure this is you missing the point, i litteraly summed everything up, and other above posters did, but you still argue this crap.

This is a discussion around the use of research nades on the ship and specifically around the rasp when its landing. To counter your arguments lets go 1 by 1

"Ironically, this is the same shit i could say with research nades, but we all fucking know that when it comes, there is not much time to get away from it, now is it?"

except you aren't stuck in a metal tube that lands in the same exact space every time which stuns the xenos when they touch down even if they rest prior to landing. So the researcher can easily plant all the explosive around the landing site and once it touches down boom, most of hive is dead and they have no counters to that since the rasp is one of the only ways to get on the ship.
You can complain that it would realistic if you know the giant space lizards are coming just blow up landing craft ship, yes but you know what would be more realistic saying fuck it we lost enough men to this planet, and glassing the planet but that not fun for either side. Honestly allowing this tactic just brings back memories of bullshit hangar defenses since marines intentionally fall back early just so they have enough men and equipment to make a rock solid hangar defense and win a round that they clearly lost (I do admit their straight banning of all building in the hangar was a tad too far, wished you could at least place down table defenses (which are crap but still better than nothing)).

Bullshit hangar defenses while yes, were bullshit, researcher nades are like winning a lottery, its so rare to even get one

" you have to get close to hit anything, otherwise most of your shots will be missing otherwise"
If you mod your gun improperly, or just set yourself to burst fire, sure accuracy will be an issue but other than that marines should keep their distance. Xenos are melee fighters after all, yes xenos have tools to close the distance but marines shouldn't be actively running closer to xenos.

Accuracy still will have you miss EVEN 1 tile shots, All T1's and All T2's expect hivelord, Crusher, Ravager, Carrier are fast and can close distance quickly if marines don't have quick reactions (which majority don't) and don't immideatley fire as it appears (again, majority) causing FF sometimes as well after they appear and immideatley go away, or go between marines if they are a runner
"spitters nerf range is basically beh if spitter is on either open ground OR defending a hive or fighting in a closed space, which is what's 90% all fights are"

Yes you are correct most fighting will be in closed and claustrophobic spaces because that general vibe of the aliens franchise (especially the horror attributes to the franchise) but marines need to learn when to pick their fights and move tactically. Seriously using the hive as a rasp comparison is so far from the truth. The Rasp is a confined space while the hive/caves are generally expansive and it has multiple entrances (several of which marines can make on their own with mining tools.)

Have you actually ever fought in caves? i seen marines use mining tools, but that doesn't happen every single round, and some of them backfired horribly, plus, only generally the actuall hive is expansive, the entrances to it and trying to get into it? yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah....no Its around 6 yeah, there is also one single researcher who makes these nades, and him existing is already a game of chance, him making researcher nades requires even greater luck.
Also, marines can't space themself out withnout being ridiclously vulnerable or having very small firepower by the end, or even immpossible if you are in caves and have like, 2 squads attacking, you can't do shit about it, at all, its a chessy move (because marines hate anything that stuns for more than 3 seconds) and not marines fault that they can't seperate themself in tight ass hallways. Uhhhhhh...what?
It doesn't matter if you rush too quickly or aren't clearing weeds, spitters have alot of plasma to keep 3 people down if they are elite/ancient to murder them if they need to, and drones can just make weeds on spot...it doesn't also really need communications much, you just need to have a drone/some other alien cooperating.

"You do realise, marines DO try to heal up, ... its not as easy as you damn think ... his skull"
But thats where MEDICS HEAL!, they go out in front, to heal you back up into condition to keep fighting against the xenos, if they leave the front to make some guy with 4 bleedings and tons of damage but no broken bones/organs go back to the back and fix him, there may be no front when you come back.
No they don't, caves are much smaller than rasputin in areas where marines fight.
In one case, she is always there, getting stronger as round goes on, while researchers are there with most likely chance of fucking it up and stunning marines as well
You can still plant doors for more chances of survival
Actually more cowardly, there is only a few, me included that are suicidal as fuck
Nothing to say
Expect good luck getting to it after receiving serious injuries

[TheSpoonyCroy]

-snip-

We might just have to agree to disagree but I still call bullshit on the claim on "researcher nades are like winning a lottery." They are incredibly simple to make as I said in my first post (its literally 2 parts Potassium and water and that it...)

[Godzillan]

Aliens bitched about mines, you got your ability to slash and marines being wounded from them now.
ID locks on specialists.
Elite+ Queen can now regen screech really quickly.
Attempts on cornershooting(which was stated a feature really long time ago) to get removed and classified as "glitch", ban players for doing so.
Now researcher nades, the only thing that actually gets us some wins, barely any competent researchers around anyways.

What else are you going to remove that made marine fun?

I've seen plenty of marine victories which didn't heavily rely on research grenades, and I definitely wouldn't call them the only thing which wins games for marines. Though, I don't know if removing them is the best way to go about this. maybe just reduce the damage/raidus a little and prevent them from being used on the sulaco as others have suggested. I wouldn't call them a complete exploit like girder stacking was, at least with this aliens still have a chance to avoid the explosions, with that you were just stuck in the dropship for five minutes at which point everyone would be dead.

[MrJJJ]

We might just have to agree to disagree but I still call bullshit on the claim on "researcher nades are like winning a lottery." They are incredibly simple to make as I said in my first post (its literally 2 parts Potassium and water and that it...)

I know they are simple to make, its just lottery to actually have one to make them

[saronsen]

Just make those nades breach the sulacos floor, walls, and windows.

That'll teach the marines for using literal bombs on a pressurized can.

[Mech__Warrior]

So, are they using nitroglycerine grenades or is this just the standard potassium/water grenades? I know nitro would fuck anybody's shit up and leave a huge hole in the ship.

[Daman453]

Want to hear a joke? Marine buffs

[completelynewguy]

Just ban research grenades after the Research update. Resin paste for broken helmets and acid-away spray is more useful than IEDs.

[Joe4444]

So, are they using nitroglycerine grenades or is this just the standard potassium/water grenades? I know nitro would fuck anybody's shit up and leave a huge hole in the ship.

potassium/water grenades friendo

[Mech__Warrior]

potassium/water grenades friendo

Plebs, might as well annihilate the entire lower deck if you're going for mutually assured destruction.

[hawkshot86]

The only time I've ever seen research grenades is when Harlequin plays researcher, and they're usually not that game changing. You gotta remember the biggest threat to marines is FF half the time, bigger grenades isn't something everyone gets, usually the SL and the spec are the only ones because no one wants a baldie with an OB in a can.

On a side note, OBs seem pretty underwhelming considering how hard they are to coordinate.

[TopHatPenguin]

On a side note, OBs seem pretty underwhelming considering how hard they are to coordinate.

Might be due to how the firing system for the OB is bugged on the X axis? or are you talking more about the firepower?

[hawkshot86]

Might be due to how the firing system for the OB is bugged on the X axis? or are you talking more about the firepower?

Didn't notice that it was bugged lol I don't play BO that much though. That makes sense, I've heard of people getting hit by their own OBs, but always chalked it up to baldies.
And yeah firepower. Everytime I've gotten them to actually be used they don't seem very... Bombard-y? It feels like a glorified grenade that is harder to throw right now.

[Recounted]

Make if rsr grenades are going to be nerfed by the whining xenos how about adding more than one thing for the RSR to make so he don't resort to making grenades. of course that will be a difficult thing to do since it would be a long time before anything more is added for RSR to make since he can barely create anything at all

[solidfury7]

The grenades are not a major issue, make research more interesting and give them more paths to take rather than they currently have.

[Warnipple]

Also research grenade seems to do percentage of HP in damage and knockdown the same for both races.

So its very profitable to suicide bomb with research grenades.

1. It wont kill the suicide bomber and the same time of knockdown for your enemy.

2. It does more damage to your enemies than it does to yourself. The trade off is huge.

[hawkshot86]

Also research grenade seems to do percentage of HP in damage and knockdown the same for both races.

So its very profitable to suicide bomb with research grenades.

1. It wont kill the suicide bomber and the same time of knockdown for your enemy.

2. It does more damage to your enemies than it does to yourself. The trade off is huge.

Ok that should probably be fixed lol

[Aracino]

Just make those nades breach the sulacos floor, walls, and windows.

That'll teach the marines for using literal bombs on a pressurized can.

If I could thumbs you up, I would.

[Karmac]

At least figure out a way to make these grenades still worth putting on my GL spec, or else I'll have to hold RO hostage until they waste all their points on buying me three explosives crates so I can have one clip of actually good grenade launcher ammo...

[Desolane900]

- 9x9 knockdown for all xenos. Damages and does knockdown up to 5 tiles away.

Most of all. Its not fun.

Gee, wonder why marine players hate crusher stomp and queen screech...

[saronsen]

Both have a cooldown and plasma cost and don't deal massive amounts of damage the same time they stun.

Crusher only stuns 2 tiles away, Queen only.. 4?

That and there's a limited number of these creatures.

Research nades can be handed to everyone.

[Mephiliso]

Research nades are pretty AIDS if the researcher is someone like Suro Ruro who will dedicate quite a lot of time to making them. Having the entire hive come up onto the Rasputin only to be stunlocked and cucked by about 5 research nades makes for some very salty xenos.