A question about preds...

[Warnipple]

They technically are events since they spawn every 5 rounds right?

I have no problem with preds since they won't kill you without warning.

[Iatots]

As the others said, they stick out too much in a round they are in. This comes from their ability to tank shots pretty well. Turn them from tanks to rogues with sidestep abilities and 1.5 dodge multiplier.

[Feweh]

It's about time we buffed preds.

Deflect Sadar rockets back at the shooter.
Flame/Fire resistant
Explosion immunity
Perma Cloak

[Joe4444]

It's about time we buffed preds.

Deflect Sadar rockets back at the shooter.
Flame/Fire resistant
Explosion immunity
Perma Cloak

and the bracer that blows up the entire planet

[Boltersam]

I don't believe I should vote due to bias as a Predator player, but I'll add my two cents.
A lot of the community doesn't like Predators. Be that a vocal minority, or the majority. While Apop has the final say on the matter, the fact stands that the community doesn't seem to like Predators.

From my own experiences, I couldn't roleplay much with Alien players, and this wasn't much aided by the occasional random starting a fight during it. With marines, there's more flexibility, and they open up many more options.

However, within the Marines there is a more prevalant need to avoid or attack Predators, due to difference in strength, and greed and hate.

The majority of it, though, is instilling fear, or challenging someone to a duel after a lengthy period of stalking them. Sure, sometimes people won't be too sore about their death,but it had a negative effect on the majority of those that died, which may go contrary to the goals of the Predator role.

I've found it strange that you'd see a predator casually walk up and ask a marine for a duel, but sometimes that's the only option to have an impact on either side,besides self defense, because there's a risk of being banned for murderbone if you stalk and actually "Hunt" someone, or someones, because without their prior knowledge, it can be perceived as grief. Killing is rare for me, but it can be a large part of some rounds.

It was a bit centered on the Predator side of things, but that's what I had to say.

[crono23]

I'm just gonna say this:

If a single thing can cause so much salt, what's the point in keeping it around?

[Renomaki]

I'm just gonna say this:

If a single thing can cause so much salt, what's the point in keeping it around?

If you think preds are bad, try playing vanilla SS13.

Nuke ops, Changlings, blobs, traitor heads, I experienced a lot of frustration and "salt" having to deal with such antags, both as a mere crewmen, member of security and captain. Nothing sucks more then a powergaming traitorhead or a blob that the station just can't seem to kill due to lack of coordination. I'd take a pred any day to a team of murderboning nukeops, let alone a WIZARD.

And yet, a lot of those antags are still around. Why? Because otherwise people won't be able to appreciate the smaller things, or on the other hand, build character as they do their best to deal with the threat rather than whine about it.

While some people might want to remove preds, I myself am still fine with their presence. Yes, they are FUCKIN SCARY when they are around, but on the other hand, it is a real test of one's skill as a marine/xeno to be able to continue and complete their mission despite having a wrench in their plans. You either wiggle it out or you just leave it in there to jam everything up.

[Kevinthezhang]

I thinks more apt comparison is that xenos are the traitors/primary a tags while preds are side-antags like space ninjas

[doodeeda]

Naturally, people aren't too fond of being killed and taken out of the round. Nothing huge usually comes of it when someone joins deadchat other than a little expletive or something if they've been killed by an alien or a human because being killed by a marine/alien is to be expected. Marine vs. Alien has also been heavily tested and balanced by all of the community and not just staff. Being killed by a Predator is something new which is why there's always such a ruckus. I don't mind dying, but I suspect those that do get angry in deadchat is because they believe their death was unfair. If the rest of the community had a chance to be involved with the decision-making in regards to Predator balance and playstyle, they'd be able to accept it more even when they die in-game.

I suppose that's probably off the table though as it seems like we don't want regular players to know too much in order to keep the scare-factor and newness, but an observer can be easily wow'd by a Predator or pissed off at what they perceive as OP or unfair due to the opaqueness of it all.

[EMT_321]

If you think preds are bad, try playing vanilla SS13.

Nuke ops, Changlings, blobs, traitor heads, I experienced a lot of frustration and "salt" having to deal with such antags, both as a mere crewmen, member of security and captain. Nothing sucks more then a powergaming traitorhead or a blob that the station just can't seem to kill due to lack of coordination. I'd take a pred any day to a team of murderboning nukeops, let alone a WIZARD.

And yet, a lot of those antags are still around. Why? Because otherwise people won't be able to appreciate the smaller things, or on the other hand, build character as they do their best to deal with the threat rather than whine about it.

While some people might want to remove preds, I myself am still fine with their presence. Yes, they are FUCKIN SCARY when they are around, but on the other hand, it is a real test of one's skill as a marine/xeno to be able to continue and complete their mission despite having a wrench in their plans. You either wiggle it out or you just leave it in there to jam everything up.

Most antags in SS13 have weaknesses. Predators are designed to be far stronger then marines and aliens alike, complete with high damage resistance, increased speed, infinite healing (on a short cooldown) and incredibly powerful weapons/cloaking. They are essentially a mix of Nuke Ops and Space Ninja. It is incredibly frustrating to experience a player who has innate superiority over you, and have your round irrevocably altered from the norm.

It is less a "wrench" and more a total derailing of the round. A predator exploding on the sulaco or in the FOB cripples the marines, likewise if it were to explode in the larva room for aliens. Predators derailing the round is enjoyable for a minority of the online playerbase, especially when people have had complaints made against them for targeting predators.

I believe that predators should have some curtailing done so that they dont derail rounds quite as significantly.

[TR-BlackDragon]

Predators have weaknesses it's just we don't flaunt it out there, it's one of them, You got to figure it out kinda deals. Which makes it all the more thrilling

[EMT_321]

Predators have weaknesses it's just we don't flaunt it out there, it's one of them, You got to figure it out kinda deals. Which makes it all the more thrilling

I have reason to believe several of the weaknesses are hardly extant, and those that were extant have been rectified.

One that's been quoted to me here, on the forums, is that predator healing crystals can OD them and kill em if used in rapid succession. Yet I have seen several crystals used fairly rapidly together in a predator/xeno duel, which calls into question that limiting factor. If that is the case, then they possess infinite rapid healing at any point with no limit on use besides however many you spawned earlier. Neither marines nor xenos have the luxury of healing anywhere at any time from any wound (except fractures, apparently).

We all know they have tanky armor, and resistance to facehuggers. Given the last time a doctor tried to pull a hail mary with an anesthetic pen on a sualco-bound predator and it got up and smacked them, I'd even hazard to say they dont process chems the same way marines do.

Being as that the meta at least a few months back was apparently OD'ing predators with quickclot, this leads me to believe said strategy was nerfed/removed. Perhaps for good reason in this specific instance, given its cheese factor, but it still implies there are ongoing boons to predator survivability. I have yet to experience any novel weaknesses.

Finally, whenever someone speaks as to ways to kill predators (such as when Feweh told me my throwing knives put a hurt on a predator, and I later passed that info along to others) they run the risk of being called out for meta by other predator players (as I was in this instance, and Victor Orbitl Kaipov was for attacking predators in another). This creates an environment which seems to perpetuate predator survivability beyond that of in-game values, which are already strong.

Cloaking memes speak for themselves, to an extent.

I dont dispute that predators are an interesting part of the game, nor that they can bring both good action and RP. I do dispute that placing all that power in the hands of a few players, and then giving them carte blanche privilege when a new marine/xeno attacks them to absolutely rip apart a round makes for fun emergent gameplay in a game dependent on shared experiences. Dismissing all criticism of predators as they stand on the server as "salt" does not do much to bridge the gap with players who have qualms as to their current state. The current rate at which marines encounter predators only exacerbates these issues in a way that would be unlikely to happen if predator spawns were curtailed

[Jdobbin49]

Predator round are a 1/5 chance of occurring if I'm not mistaken because yesterday there were 2 pred rounds one right after the other. Rather than making preds special event only why not just lower the chance slightly so that it still may happen on a regularish basis.

[Joe4444]

Tried this once....pred caught evey single throwing knife I threw at em...then threw them back.We were just throwing knives at each other for about...5 minutes.

[TR-BlackDragon]

EMT, I will say that the knife thing is real. And yes preds will react accordingly if they see someone throwing knives . As they slow us down... for some reason that's unknown..... anyway then there is the part you said about that new noobs marine shooting the pred while it's rping... if the rest of you didn't also start shooting because that one stupid marine did. Then their wouldn't start a shit fest. 90% of the time the pred just targets that one who shot them in self defence then every marine starts unloading into the pred. So yes. I've ran into that exact situation and yes, I then proceed to rock that entire squad of marines up, while trying to only kill the one who started the shit fest and then I attempt to leave.

Usually though this rarely leaves me able to continue the round as I tend to take to much damage and something breaks or I'm chased down and I blow up.

[Kevinthezhang]

From a roleplay perspective I don't think the marines can know the intent of the predator (hunting the one that shot it).

If one of your squadmates is being pursued by a pred, your natural in-role reaction would be to protect them (just like if they were attacked by a hunter or runner). You wouldn't just let them die and say "Oh its his fault he shot that alien thing".

You're asking marines to have assume things about preds that they have no reason to assume, barring meta-knowledge.

[Joe4444]

EMT, I will say that the knife thing is real. And yes preds will react accordingly if they see someone throwing knives . As they slow us down... for some reason that's unknown..... anyway then there is the part you said about that new noobs marine shooting the pred while it's rping... if the rest of you didn't also start shooting because that one stupid marine did. Then their wouldn't start a shit fest. 90% of the time the pred just targets that one who shot them in self defence then every marine starts unloading into the pred. So yes. I've ran into that exact situation and yes, I then proceed to rock that entire squad of marines up, while trying to only kill the one who started the shit fest and then I attempt to leave.

Usually though this rarely leaves me able to continue the round as I tend to take to much damage and something breaks or I'm chased down and I blow up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixfTJ3y0Y6o
just gonna leave that there for you....

[TR-BlackDragon]

That may be, but no pred ever will just let someone shoot them and not react. Unless you know.... use a small arm pistol. Lol I actually had someone fire the standard pistol at me and every shot bounced off my armor.

My pred just tilted his head and laughed

[Fritigern]

EMT, I will say that the knife thing is real. And yes preds will react accordingly if they see someone throwing knives . As they slow us down... for some reason that's unknown..... anyway then there is the part you said about that new noobs marine shooting the pred while it's rping... if the rest of you didn't also start shooting because that one stupid marine did. Then their wouldn't start a shit fest. 90% of the time the pred just targets that one who shot them in self defence then every marine starts unloading into the pred. So yes. I've ran into that exact situation and yes, I then proceed to rock that entire squad of marines up, while trying to only kill the one who started the shit fest and then I attempt to leave.

Usually though this rarely leaves me able to continue the round as I tend to take to much damage and something breaks or I'm chased down and I blow up.

This right here is my biggest complaint with predators, and it's a basically a method of play being endorsed at the highest level. "Yeah just let this one marine die or else I'll just go crazy and murder you all and guarantee an alien major."

What the fuck, man? You know what predators did when people attacked them en masse in the movies? They fucking ran away. The whole point of a predator is to catch prey, not get involved in a giant clusterfuck of a fight, taking 30 bullets to the face in the process. This is why we can't have nice things.

[Feweh]

I feel like Predators would best be without so many rules.
It causes conflict for every side arguing about what they can and cant do.

As Fritigern said, it's silly that marines have to avoid stepping on egg-shells just to not get slaughtered. Then you have certain players who want to fight the Predator and other's who just want to avoid it.
A rookie mistake on most predators is to use any justification to murder-bone, like killing all the marines simply because one player is an asshole and shot the predator.

We have all these restrictive rules that most of the player base doesn't understand and we have no mechanics in-place to really enforce fair balance.
I'm so tired of dealing with predator complaints and reading DSAY during pred rounds.

To be honest, there's no real way to check into predator complaints.
There are so many variables that make bypassing certain predator rules acceptable that no matter of logs can properly show that.

Predators will be fun when we put mechanics in that enforce the ruleset we have in-place.
Or we do away with a good chunk of rules.

We do have a very strong whitelisted group of predators currently and any that break rules are quickly punished. The player base does need to chill the fuck out though with the constant crying in dead-chat and thinking predators are breaking rules all the time.

[Fritigern]

I feel like Predators would best be without so many rules.
It causes conflict for every side arguing about what they can and cant do.

As Fritigern said, it's silly that marines have to avoid stepping on egg-shells just to not get slaughtered. Then you have certain players who want to fight the Predator and other's who just want to avoid it.
A rookie mistake on most predators is to use any justification to murder-bone, like killing all the marines simply because one player is an asshole and shot the predator.

We have all these restrictive rules that most of the player base doesn't understand and we have no mechanics in-place to really enforce fair balance.
I'm so tired of dealing with predator complaints and reading DSAY during pred rounds.

To be honest, there's no real way to check into predator complaints.
There are so many variables that make bypassing certain predator rules acceptable that no matter of logs can properly show that.

Predators will be fun when we put mechanics in that enforce the ruleset we have in-place.
Or we do away with a good chunk of rules.

We do have a very strong whitelisted group of predators currently and any that break rules are quickly punished. The player base does need to chill the fuck out though with the constant crying in dead-chat and thinking predators are breaking rules all the time.

If you make predators less tanky, then I would be completely fine with removing the vast majority of their restrictions. If they want to go crazy and start murdering people that's fine, but I don't want them to be nearly invincible in the process. Just embrace them as a random force that will kill people, sometimes for good reasons and with good RP, sometimes not.

[hawkshot86]

I like the idea of a Predator game mode focused more on the predators than the aliens. Maybe like the Predators movie or something similar that adds some extra predators. New bloods looking for their first kills maybe?

I think predators should stay in regular game, they're a cool spontaneous element that adds to the round. Predator duels are always cool to watch and partake in and I would be sad to see them go.

[Feweh]

If you make predators less tanky, then I would be completely fine with removing the vast majority of their restrictions. If they want to go crazy and start murdering people that's fine, but I don't want them to be nearly invincible in the process. Just embrace them as a random force that will kill people, sometimes for good reasons and with good RP, sometimes not.

Ya, the reason they're so tanky is to compensate for being insta shot during RP situations.
They take a lot of extra hits from xenos/marines simply because they are following a honor code which doesn't let them engage targets to the best of their abilities.
I'm not saying we should remove this but it might be more beneficial to take a look at.

[TR-BlackDragon]

I'm a tell you the truth. I USED to just run away. But marines will chase you down. Instead of chasing g a little and backing off. I won't die with out a fight. There is no honer in that. So trust me I don't just murder bone. I will wound to stop the marines from chasing. Trust me if I could run away with out being gunned down, I would. But when we go invisible a lucky stray bullet can cause us to decloak and we have a cool down before we can cloak again. I've died many time in the beginning because some random douch wants to shoot the pred while it's being peaceful.

[saronsen]

I haven't encountered a Predator as a Marine yet, but I run into them consistently as a Xeno. I've had rather good interactions with them, especially as a Queen during xeno-lowpop. Forming an ''''''allliance'''''' with them so they don't murder all of us if some little shit runner attacks them is an interesting experience. I straight up tell them to bring me their hide if someone in the hive disobeys their queen. Other times, the predators get a little cocky, and end up screeched in the middle of a pack of T2s and T3s 'cause they start hunting down all of the young xenos because a single one pissed them off.

I have yet to experience a round-ending event with the Predators. Killing off one of my Elite Hunters hurts, but it adds to the challenge.

I'm all for there being different kinds of Predators. The tanky, honorable duel ones that aren't so keen on killing everything, and the fast, brutish ones that just find honor in shedding as much blood as possible. And whatever you can fit in between.

Just my newguy two cents.