What is the cause of most Marine losses?

[Crab_Spider]

The title says it all. Marines are shit at getting victories, they have the equipment, and sometimes the skills needed to win, but somehow the Rasp gets boarded by xenos and even then no one can push them back. I get the Sulaco is an extremely small and cramped environment (y'know, the ideal conditions for xeno combat), but how are 26 combat capable soldiers taken out within a span of 13-28 minutes by 18 alien lifeforms? Sure, xenos come in all shapes and sizes necessary for just about any situation, but even then, all it takes at most are up to 3 rifle mags and you're done, with the Queen and you cripple xenos ability to progress any further.

[Derpislav]

Retardation.



I'll edit this post with something more elaborate once my will to live returns.

[Shust]

This happned a few seconds before you posted this. I was such an efficient medic, but healing is sometimes dangerous.



Incase your wondering, yeah they just walked away like it never happened and went to the other medic who just landed.

[Simo94]

imo its just becuz xenos are that powerful really, but if there must be a reason id say lack of good specs (stop going sniper) and command staff and also the fear of death which leads to over retreating, cuz death is harsh in this game, but back to my point, marines generally win cuz xenos did bad, if xenos are played by robust players marine's chances become slime to none really

[Renomaki]

There are many causes of marine losses, some of them you could easily prevent, others that are all up to fate.

One major factor is supply lines. In order for marines to survive and win, they need supplies, and thus during longer rounds, it is important to have a steady and effective supply line. However, if cargo is understaffed [or staffed with lazy, uncaring workers], it'll hurt the marines pretty bad in the long run. I had one round recently where I made a supply request to command, and after requesting supplies several times, they finally sent what I asked for... An hour later, after the xenos had pushed the marines back all the way to the FoB, where they were quickly overwhelmed. Good cargo staff are quick on their feet and communicate often with both each other and the marines.

Another factor is leadership. Sometimes you have rounds where not all squads have SLs, which makes it hard to manage everyone on the ground. It is also common to be short on BOs, making it harder to overwatch all the marines effectively. And if a round is lacking a commander and/or XO, well.. It won't end well. But even if you have enough SLs and bridge staff to run smoothly, if your SLs are crap, you won't get much done. And don't get me started if you have a bad commander, hoo boy..

And of course, there is friendly fire, which has become a sort of "meme" at this point, a running gag, a cliche of the marines. This is caused by a NUMBER of things, be it fear, carelessness, selfishness, or by sheer accident all together. It is hard NOT to friendly fire at times, moreso if marines are in the a bottleneck and someone panic shoots a hunter in front of another marine. It is a bad habit that marines struggle to break, and while I try to avoid it, I myself can't hide the fact that I did a LOT of friendly fire of my own, which really sucks..

I could go on and on about what marines do that costs them victory, but I think I'll leave that to other posters to cover what I don't.

[slc97]

Marines.
Marines are the cause of most marine losses.
If we got rid of Marines, marines would never lose.

[Heckenshutze]

Apophis and his definition of "Balance".

[Arkatos]

In order for marines to even have chance to win, they need SO many things to "click":

- Medical not functioning? Forget cloning, slow surgeries, wounded marines are not coming back to combat fast enough, medbay is clogged by patients, who out of boredom go SSD/ghost
- Cargo not working? Keep up your broken helmet, you wont be getting new one, or anything, for that matter
- Command launching OBs on friendlies? Retreating when marines have advantage and attacking when they are outnumbered? That will cost some precious manpower
- Engineering blowing half of Sulaco with SM? Combat engineers not making proper FoB? This will not help either
- Marines not listening to orders and ramboing north, getting captured in the process? Even when everything else on Sulaco is properly working?

- > Yeah, you are fucked.

[Renomaki]

In order for marines to even have chance to win, they need SO many things to "click":

- Medical not functioning? Forget cloning, slow surgeries, wounded marines are not coming back to combat fast enough, medbay is clogged by patients, who out of boredom go SSD/ghost
- Cargo not working? Keep up your broken helmet, you wont be getting new one, or anything, for that matter
- Command launching OBs on friendlies? Retreating when marines have advantage and attacking when they are outnumbered? That will cost some precious manpower
- Engineering blowing half of Sulaco with SM? Combat engineers not making proper FoB? This will not help either
- Marines not listening to orders and ramboing north, getting captured in the process? Even when everything else on Sulaco is properly working?

- > Yeah, you are fucked.

This pretty much sums up the general issues with marines.

If any one of theses is faulty, expect the marines to have a bad time.

[Jakers457]

When people build a single line of weak tables and say, 'here's our defense, this will hold.' Before getting fucked left, right and center quite literally.

[RuiXon]

Supply is the #1 reason why Marines lose. I've seen matches where Standards and a few Medics wiped out Xenos while the Specs and SLs were dead because they had their gear whereas everyone is alive but have to resort to SMGs and Shotties because they ran out of ammo for everything else which leads to Xenos obliterating everything they see.

[Scrat505]

Definitely the longer the round goes, the less a chance the marines have. As the marines are deployed for longer, Squad Leaders, engineers, medics, specialists, doctors, cargo techs, and Command all die or go SSD until it's basically entirely Standards with one SL of four and one BO. The marine logistics chain has many levels to ensure the ground op goes smoothly.

On the flipside, Aliens only get stronger as time goes on and have no logistical issues ever. It takes an especially competent marine team or a really dumb alien team to secure many Marine victories.

[Psilo]

In short: Xenos.
Xenos cause the marines to lose.
What marines can do to not lose to Xenos might be the right thing to ask here

[ZDashe]

1. Incompetence
- Command staff not giving instructions/coordinating squads
- PO leaving the dropship unattended
- CE or MTs fuck up and SM blows
- Cargo not providing supplies on time
- Doctors not cloning the dead
- SL acting like a glorified grunt
- Medics not patching wounded or medivacing
- Engineers not utilizing their sentries actively
- Specs not utilizing their gear effectively before dying

2. Marines not staying together in their squads
- Metarushing rambos
- Scattered forces get picked off one by one

3. Boots
- FF
- Not removing facehugger
- Not shaking up downed marines
- Not bringing wounded to the rear
- Dragging wounded to death instead of using grab
- Blocking lanes of fire
- Rushing into chokepoints
- Not cutting weed/resin before advancing
- Knifing fellow marine in head to remove facehuggers

TLDR: Marines.

[Casany]

I don't get why winning is so important. Maybe if marines focused more on the FUN element instead of always winning, they would win a bit more

[slc97]

I don't get why winning is so important. Maybe if marines focused more on the FUN element instead of always winning, they would win a bit more

Exactly this. I have never enjoyed winning nearly as much as I've enjoyed a good last stand, epic death, or valiant showdown. Winning is boring.

[Crab_Spider]

I don't get why winning is so important. Maybe if marines focused more on the FUN element instead of always winning, they would win a bit more

A marine victory is important because it reflects our ability to, as humans, overcome a threat no matter the size. From a storytelling perspective, I don't want the protagonists to lose hope, or die with the lives of others in jeopardy.

[Simo94]

yall need to remember that the same marine who FF killed 3 teammates and took all the AP mags and got hugged gets 5 kills and 50 captures playing as xeno

[Renomaki]

Exactly this. I have never enjoyed winning nearly as much as I've enjoyed a good last stand, epic death, or valiant showdown. Winning is boring.

While winning is awesome and all that, I often notice that my best moments were not glorious charges, but horrific last stands, fighting to the death and refusing to give up until the last breath.

There is just something that awakens when you are holding the last dropzone, knowing full well that if it falls, the marines will have no hope of recovery. It pushes you to fight harder and braver than you ever would on an average round, and makes your fall all the more climactic.

In a way, CM, and SS13 in general, is like Dwarf Fortress: Where losing is where all the fun is. If marines won all the time, it would make the few victories marines do have less satisfying.

[TopHatPenguin]

I don't get why winning is so important. Maybe if marines focused more on the FUN element instead of always winning, they would win a bit more

Exactly this. I have never enjoyed winning nearly as much as I've enjoyed a good last stand, epic death, or valiant showdown. Winning is boring.

Winning as a squaddie marine can be highly boring yes due to a multitude of factors mainly xenos running away or marines just spending hours searching for one xeno in the cave.

However the opposite can be said when you play a command role, as a RO/CT and upwards if you win the round you get a sense of satisfaction knowing that you've done your job well, if you lose on the other hand most of the blame normally, if not always falls onto the command staff, mainly the CO/XO/BO and RO.

[Feweh]

Admins

[Surrealistik]

In a nutshell, Team Marine has a lot of moving parts, and if any of them fuck up, there will probably be disastrous consequences.

[Steven Sneider]

A marine victory is important because it reflects our ability to, as humans, overcome a threat no matter the size. From a storytelling perspective, I don't want the protagonists to lose hope, or die with the lives of others in jeopardy.

Thing is in movies, books, and other lore stuff, the main protagonists are protected by plot armor.
In here no one is the main protagonist, we are just grunts of the USCM.

[Stingray]

Marine victories require everyone to have some degree of competency - medical, cargo, command, engineering, and of course the marines themselves. People are always going to have trouble winning if all the standards are baldie rambos, or if engineers create wooden tables as the only line of defense.

In a nutshell; no teamwork.

[Dogar]

Plenty of people have listed issues with marine behavior, so here's some general balance issues.

1. Recovery: A badly wounded alien can quickly recover on weeds in a matter of seconds, while a similarly damaged marine can be down for many minutes, depending on medic and doctor competency.

2. Range: Marines have an advantage in numbers of ranged weapons, but aliens have a longer LOS due to night vision, and can snipe at marines from a distance. Flares aren't very reliable, as the aliens can easily re-position.

3. Autonomy: The alien front line grunts can easily act on their own, picking off stragglers. Even if they get attacked by many marines, they can easily escape beyond sight or hide. Lone marines are easy meat.

4. Attrition: Every dead alien is one point for marines. Every captured marine is two points for the aliens: One for the marine, one for the chestburster.

5. Boredom: Being a marine involves a lot of sitting on your ass waiting for command to give the go ahead on a push to the north, all the while being pelted by acid blobs. People get bored and frustrated, and start trickling north or chasing wounded xenos just so they can actually enjoy the game. Xenos can begin engaging marines almost immediately.