Okand37 - Mapper Application

[Okand37]

Byond ID: Okand37

Age: 18 1/2

Gender: Female

How would you define yourself? (Coder, Mapper, Spriter): Mapper

If Coder, what languages?
N/A. I've never truly coded and have minimal experience in such.

Any previous experience developing with SS13?
I have had about two years experience of mapping and developing work over the course of time I've spent playing SS13. My first development project was a station map that now exists as "DeltaStation" across the /tg/ codebase and another forks or adaptments. Along with DeltaStation, I've also produced a smaller map known as "OmegaStation" which is also included in the previously stated rotation. /tg/station's currently CentComm base is also constructed by myself, and I've also worked on a number of event maps as well as other projects. I have experience mapping with both /tg/station and baystation12 codebases.

Proof of any previous or current work:
Github: Profile
2016-2017 Delta Station: Fullview and forum topic
2016-2018 Omega Station: Fullview and forum topic
2017 Central Command: Fullview and github pr
2018 Bearcat 2.0 (Sabercat): Upper Deck Fullview (unreleased/unfinished)
2018 Planet Station: Upper Z-level Fullview (unreleased/unfinished)

How well do you know Git?
Having used github for pull requests, I know my way around git enough to use it to keep an up-to-date code folder and create pull-requests as well as amend/update existing pull requests.

Your primary job is server development, not policing the server. You may be given Moderator-level of access but you should *not* be invoking any administrative actions unless there are no moderators or Admins online. Do you understand? (Yes/No)
Yes

Anything else you'd like to add?
I would like to note that the more up-to-date 2018 based works are likely my best and most presentable ones. While most of the maps shown are all station-based, I do have experience with terrain/planetary mapping as well, but I haven't ever worked on a fully fledged and complete project featuring such. Although I do have experience working with /tg/station, I am no longer an active contributor or game staff.

[WinterClould]

While I think your experience in making space stations can really be a bonus for our map development team in regards to making creative layouts for any maps that further down the line, what exactly makes you most interested in developing maps for us instead of Vanilla SS13?

[Okand37]

While I think your experience in making space stations can really be a bonus for our map development team in regards to making creative layouts for any maps that further down the line, what exactly makes you most interested in developing maps for us instead of Vanilla SS13?

One thing I really like about the prospect of developing maps for colonial marines is the creative freedom that may come with it. When it comes to vanilla SS13, you're fairly restricted to making "station" based maps that tend to follow a somewhat linear design pattern and have a fair amount of requirements to accompany the variety of jobs and positions that crewmembers can play as. The maps in colonial marines, however, aren't bound by these exact restrictions and serve more as settings for narratives, stories, and struggles to take place. I love making environments and scenic "worlds" that are both appealing to the eye and enjoyable to experiment and play on, and I think the type of mapping I enjoy most would blend well with the gameplay experience that colonial marines offers.

Additionally, I believe it is important for an individual to like the community that they're in and to enjoy the work they do to ensure that they're working at their best capacity. When it comes to colonial marines, I think the people here are fairly nice and enjoyable, and the mapping style is one I absolutely adore to both play on and create. I am sure it could be quite a lot of fun!

[spookydonut]

If you're not staff stop posting +1 and asking questions per rule 2.

[spookydonut]

How much CM have you played and what do you think goes into making a good map for it?

[Okand37]

How much CM have you played and what do you think goes into making a good map for it?

As for how long I've played on colonial marines, I'd say about two weeks, although I would like to think I have a decent grasp on the systems as most SS13 codebases generally tend to only deviate from the core mechanics so much. I think I have had an enjoyable experience immersing myself in the community thusfar, though!

What goes into making a good map? Personally, I think a good map is one that has a good amount of fluidity of movement while still allowing certain chokepoints to be setup. One that allows the use of strategical plays between the xenomorph and marine players and has a variety of close-quarters and more open areas. Additionally, I think a good map should be interesting and enjoyable both visually and mechanically, and I think it is important to have both function and form. I'd say it is also a good quality for a map to be large and fortified enough across different areas for the xenomorph players to have some room in which they can maneuver and create nests.

All in all, I'd say it is important for a map to be balanced for both the xenomorph and marine players while being intuitive and flexible enough to make room for creative planning, flanking, fortification, and deployment that can lead to victory or defeat for either side.

[spookydonut]

How would you improve ice colony?
What do you think is wrong with big red?
Would removing the fog from LV improve that map?
How would you stop meta rushing by the marines on prison?
Do you have a concept for a new map in mind and/or what kind of map would you make?

Based on you only having played two weeks (we checked), I'm inclined to say no to this app baring some very insightful answers. I do like your work and if this app is denied I'd encourage you to reapply in a month or so when you've played more CM.

[Okand37]

How would you improve ice colony?

Personally, I believe ice colony may be difficult for marine players due to the nature of a two z-level map and the resources as well as manpower it requires to hold the grounds. There are a lot of opportunities for flanking, which is good, but due to the size and magnitude of the map as well as the greater amount of entry-points I believe it is more difficult to hold critical mission areas for marines due to the increased strain on resources and manpower. When it comes to marines trying to push into the lower levels, I think it is fairly easy for xenomorph players to hold the entry/exit points and they can be very harshly punished ambush points. Lastly, due to the extensive size of the map (especially since its multi-z) I'd personally say the xenomorphs have too much room to use and fallback on. I believe that ice colony would be more enjoyable if it was compacted into one z-level, or if both z-levels were compacted more, but that's just my opinion!

What do you think is wrong with big red?

I think big red is a very enjoyable map to play on but there is often the issue with the xenomorph nests being too close to the marine deployment areas, such as the lambda research lab. It's very easy for marine players to follow xenomorphs back to their nest(s) and the xenomorphs don't have a lot of other places that offer the same advantages as lambda does for their nest. I think if big red had one or two more "equal" nesting grounds it could be more interesting and allow for more diverse xenomorph nest placement, which would make the rounds more intuitive and enjoyable(?)

Would removing the fog from LV improve that map?

In my opinion, the fog is both beneficial but also restrictive. I think a map that wants to include "barriers" that restrict immediate rushing or full-on engagement should do so in a natural way, such as big red having shortcut blastdoors that require explosives or the longer route of cavern systems to bypass them. The idea behind the fog can be useful for gameplay, but I think it would try to be done in a way that is less forced, such as perhaps making the jungle more "dense" and tricky to navigate. You could even include some way for the machetes to be useful in this regard for cutting down some dense foliage and rewarding specialized equipment per map.

How would you stop meta rushing by the marines on prison?

Honestly, I haven't seen this as an overly pressing issue, but I would restate what I had to say about LV and big red. I think it is good that there are some naturally occurring barriers that can be bypassed through the use of special equipment. Big red is interesting in that you require explosives to move through the airlocks, and you could incorporate the use of machetes to cut through foliage on LV. Perhaps a similar idea could be brainstormed for prison station through the use of security checkpoints or other?

Do you have a concept for a new map in mind and/or what kind of map would you make?

This is something I thought about and I think that before I really give a proper answer I would like to garner some ideas and feedback on what players might like to see. I would, however, like to make a new and unique environment to ensure that the maps provide a variety in play and scenery. I did have some passing thoughts regarding a volcanic environment, but one thing that really struck me was something asimilar to adapting the theme of halo 3's "crows nest" into a playable map. That being, a semi-underground complex with openings in a dense (likely tropical) environment, with a fair mixture of roofed CQC halls and rooms as well as open areas exposed to the outside air. That way there would be some areas protected from orbital bombardment or supplies and others open their usage. I think I'd want to garner more input on what parts of the other maps are(n't) enjoyable to the community beforehand, though.

Based on you only having played two weeks (we checked), I'm inclined to say no to this app baring some very insightful answers. I do like your work and if this app is denied I'd encourage you to reapply in a month or so when you've played more CM.

That is perfectly fine, and I'd be elated to be able to re-apply if it comes down to that! : )

[WinterClould]

That's a good answer to my question for sure. Just to say again, your talents are quite clear but your play time is something I'd like you to have more of.

A lot of our mapping requires a firm grasp on the meta of our game, how it could change at any moment, and how our players will always, if given the chance, exploit any and all minor flaws in your design for their advantage. Even the time it takes to walk from point A to B is very important in making our maps. Mess up the timing to get to key locations and you can give one side a very big advantage over the other. I'm of the firm belief that unless you've had a firm grasp on these concepts in other competitive games (CS:GO, MOBA's, maybe overwatch?) you'll need to spend a lot more time, give it probably a month like spooky said before you come back to us with your app again.

One more question. Our colonies frequently look messy, but not exactly lived in or fought over, save for a few cades here and there, or an arm over there and some gibs over here. Would you feel like our current maps could use additional well placed sprites and objects that are more obvious and clear to see that show what happened to the colony instead of needing Survivors or pieces of paper to tell you exactly whats happening or what happened?

Going along again with what spooky said I'd love to still hear what kind of answers you have to their questions. As well as your replies to all of what I've just said and asked here.



-Opps you've gone an answers spookys questions while I was typing this, time for me to read them-

[spookydonut]

These are very good answers but I think they definitely highlight you may need another month or so of CM.

[Okand37]

A lot of our mapping requires a firm grasp on the meta of our game, how it could change at any moment, and how our players will always, if given the chance, exploit any and all minor flaws in your design for their advantage. Even the time it takes to walk from point A to B is very important in making our maps. Mess up the timing to get to key locations and you can give one side a very big advantage over the other. I'm of the firm belief that unless you've had a firm grasp on these concepts in other competitive games (CS:GO, MOBA's, maybe overwatch?) you'll need to spend a lot more time, give it probably a month like spooky said before you come back to us with your app again.

Indeed! I've had my fair share of running events throughout various games including SS13 that featured my custom made maps and I've had a lot of experiences to consider how to balance and rebalance the maps that I make. I also play a fair amount of games that focus on these essential map components (rainbow six siege, for example) and would like to say that I have a good grasp on these more mechanical and technical aspects of mapping.

One more question. Our colonies frequently look messy, but not exactly lived in or fought over, save for a few cades here and there, or an arm over there and some gibs over here. Would you feel like our current maps could use additional well placed sprites and objects that are more obvious and clear to see that show what happened to the colony instead of needing Survivors or pieces of paper to tell you exactly whats happening or what happened?

As I mentioned previously, I've always had an affinity for creating maps that "tell a story." You may have noticed from most of my work that my maps tend to look more cluttered or lived in and have a fair amount of attention to detail and equipment placed about, although they are often fairly stocked. Personally, when it comes to mapping, one of my favourite parts is creating an environment and a "history" to be interpreted from it. I think that having maps with a sure sign of "struggle" without telling an exact case of what happened could be enjoyable for fluff, character, and roleplaying purposes as well as to help immerse people into the game they are playing!

These are very good answers but I think they definitely highlight you may need another month or so of CM.

Ultimately, it is up to you guys, and I'd be more than happy to be given the chance to try again in the future if it comes down to that!

[Nicboone]

as far as mapping goes, these look decent. Id like to see what you do with something more organic, like a planet to really capture the shapes of the environment. Im not swayed to + or - yet, but I agree with spooky, another month of active play should let us get a better guage as well. I think some of the other devs, like ribbon and dylan should chime in, they are a better guage for mapping than myself.

If you were accepted, youd be the youngest we have on the dev team. Do you think that you can handle critique, feedback, and revisions well?

[Okand37]

as far as mapping goes, these look decent. Id like to see what you do with something more organic, like a planet to really capture the shapes of the environment. Im not swayed to + or - yet, but I agree with spooky, another month of active play should let us get a better guage as well. I think some of the other devs, like ribbon and dylan should chime in, they are a better guage for mapping than myself.

While it isn't exactly perfect or the most detailed interior-wise, I set up a small environment this morning to demonstrate some level of ability in creating a space that blends terrain with structure. Although I haven't posted a lot of terrain-orientated pictures, I would like to say I have a fair amount of experience with shaping both buildings and terrain in a meaningful but scenic way!

► Show Spoiler

Since the xeno resin door sprites aren't present in the mapmaker for baystation12's codebase, the line of four uranium doors is meant to represent them.

If you were accepted, youd be the youngest we have on the dev team. Do you think that you can handle critique, feedback, and revisions well?

Out of my own personal philosophy, I believe it is important to always be flexible and willing to co-operate with others. Having been a mapper for an open-source codebase, I do know what it is like to receive critique and feedback and have always been one to try to incorporate or revise accordingly. I always try to take criticism in a neutral and constructive way, and am always more than willing to discuss changes or ideas, especially regarding the things I make!

[RibbonFlex]

I'm up for you joining, your previous work shows you know how to map well enough, at-least for the usual ss13 maps.
I guess I'll mimic the other's sentiments about playing more however.

If you're not accepted this time around, maybe a concept map to show what you have in mind for balance if you re-apply.
Otherwise I'm in favor personally.

[phil235]

Out of curiosity, why did you leave /tg/ and your admin status there?

[Okand37]

Out of curiosity, why did you leave /tg/ and your admin status there?

Honestly, I grew rather distant towards its playstyle and community mindset. I'm one who tends to favour roleplaying and more slower gameplay, which /tg/ doesn't really offer to a large extent, especially compared to cm. Average rounds on /tg/ tend to last anywhere between 30 minutes to an hour, and although they can reach longer times, I feel there isn't enough substance for me to be occupied during that time. Whereas in cm, I think it is enjoyable and easier to roleplay in due to the slower-paced gameplay and more indepth mechanics, and I find that the setting it is in makes it very easy to react to the situations unfolding around you as a marine.

As I mentioned earlier towards WinterCloud, I believe it is important for a developer or artist to enjoy the environment in which they work. In this case, I think it is important that they enjoy the game they are developing for, and for me personally, cm is a very enjoyable experience and is much more my style and pace.

[Snypehunter007]

Honestly, I grew rather distant towards its playstyle and community mindset. I'm one who tends to favour roleplaying and more slower gameplay, which /tg/ doesn't really offer to a large extent, especially compared to cm. Average rounds on /tg/ tend to last anywhere between 30 minutes to an hour, and although they can reach longer times, I feel there isn't enough substance for me to be occupied during that time. Whereas in cm, I think it is enjoyable and easier to roleplay in due to the slower-paced gameplay and more indepth mechanics, and I find that the setting it is in makes it very easy to react to the situations unfolding around you as a marine.

As I mentioned earlier towards WinterCloud, I believe it is important for a developer or artist to enjoy the environment in which they work. In this case, I think it is important that they enjoy the game they are developing for, and for me personally, cm is a very enjoyable experience and is much more my style and pace.

Its definitely harder to roleplay depending on here, depending on your role.

A last question for you, which of the maps on CM is your favorite and why in comparison to other maps?

[Okand37]

A last question for you, which of the maps on CM is your favorite and why in comparison to other maps?

Honestly, I'm not sure I necessarily have a favourite map, as I'd have to say I thoroughly enjoy LV, prison, and big red for varying reasons. I enjoy LV for the "jungle" vibe it gives and the flow of game progression and combat. Although it can be rather linear in how engagement and contact tends to go, the domes and the river are enjoyable places to move and fight between and the overall aesthetic is enjoyable. When it comes to prison, I enjoy the different routes you can take and the different places that the xenomorphs can place the hives, since it allows for some variety and configuration in strategy. The close quarters hallways mixed with open dome-like rooms is a nice mixture of combat situations that can favour either the marines or the xenomorphs in engagements. Lastly, when it comes to big red, I enjoy the scenery but I also enjoy the variety in places you can move to and from when you're initially deploying as a marine. Additionally, I like the building-to-street like combat since it offers an interesting feel and the opportunity for ambushes.

Although there might be more reasons as to why I like these maps in specific, I would say the desired aspects and traits I view in a map are ones that allow flexibility and strategy. An environment that can be used to its fullest by either side and the ability to vary in deployment for marines and nesting for xenomorphs while still allowing for engaging and meaningful combat or interaction is what I'd think are good goals to pursue when map-making.

[SecretStamos (Joshuu)]

I must say, I like your application and your chibi marine sprites that have been floating around the forums.

[apophis775]

I've got a few questions. I apologize in advance if these seem accusatory or aggressive. I'm sure you can understand that due to us being a closed-source codebase we have extra concerns. Also, the last time a /tg/ staff member (goofball) tried to apply as a dev here, it was so they could gain access and then leak our code. I'm not saying that's your intention, but it's made me extra cautious. So again, I apologize if my questions are a bit aggressive.
EDIT/CORRECTION: It has come to my attention that I was misinformed about Goofball being on /tg/ staff. My mistake came from not realizing that anyone could run for Headmin on /tg/ and I believed only Admins could. I apologize for my mistake.



1. What other servers have you played on?

2. Are you aware of our restriction on being staff on multiple servers? /tg/ shows you as a global moderator on the server, and I believe someone told me you were still a game master.

3. I was given some information that you apparently (until a few weeks ago) never played on any server other than /tg/ so it seems a bit weird to me that you'd make the jump from /tg/ directly to us when a fair bit of the playerbase and even some staff on /tg/ oppose us heavily. Is there a specific reason you left /tg/?

4. I noticed that you had infrequent commits on the /tg/ github, including 10 months of inactivity at times and that you primarily only commited anything during December 2016 - Jan 2017 and then November 2017-Jan 2018 (I am getting this information from here, if the information is incorrect, let me know). Our dev team is fairly active with sometimes updates being placed in several times a day. The workload and expectations can be very strenuous at times. Are you sure you will be able to commit the time and energy that our dev team typically expects from other developers?

[Okand37]

I've got a few questions. I apologize in advance if these seem accusatory or aggressive. I'm sure you can understand that due to us being a closed-source codebase we have extra concerns. Also, the last time a /tg/ staff member (goofball) tried to apply as a dev here, it was so they could gain access and then leak our code. I'm not saying that's your intention, but it's made me extra cautious. So again, I apologize if my questions are a bit aggressive.

No worries at all, I understand the desire for caution as it is a much more sensitive nature than contributing to an opensource codebase.

1. What other servers have you played on?

Primarily, just /tg/station. I'd scarcely visited any other servers during my stay on /tg/ but had recently been trying other servers (aurora, FTL, etc.,) until I settled on playing Colonial Marines.

2. Are you aware of our restriction on being staff on multiple servers? /tg/ shows you as a global moderator on the server, and I believe someone told me you were still a game master.

I try to be diligent in reading over requirements, restrictions, obligations, and expectations that would come as the result of applying for something. As of the moment, /tg/ tends to have a separation over who moderates the forumbase and the server. To explain the latter first, I was formerly a game master but recently resigned on April 19th of this year. If it helps, here's my feedback thread from the periods I was an administrator on the server. Elaborating on the former, when I retired, I mostly stopped doing anything with the server-both forums and especially ingame-and currently don't really do a whole lot. In essence, while I do hold the global forum moderator rank, I scarcely partake in it and would be willing to formally resign from the position if necessary.

3. I was given some information that you apparently (until a few weeks ago) never played on any server other than /tg/ so it seems a bit weird to me that you'd make the jump from /tg/ directly to us when a fair bit of the playerbase and even some staff on /tg/ oppose us heavily. Is there a specific reason you left /tg/?

Furthering on the above, I tend to enjoy "settling down" when I find somewhere that seems comfortable to me, and I often tend to stick to a specific server for an extended period of time as opposed to playing on or trying multiple at once. Personally, I enjoy the variety that the different servers can offer, but acknowledge that at times the niche community that SS13 brings often tends to breed a sense of "brand-loyalty" for people and their respective servers. I think with communities on the internet, you're bound to find a large amount of people with varying opinions, especially in a place like /tg/ that doesn't necessarily have a designed "scope" of the type of people it wishes to attract or cater to. As for why I left /tg/station, I've mostly posted my reasoning(s) above, so to repeat what I responded to phil's question of the same nature with:

Honestly, I grew rather distant towards its playstyle and community mindset. I'm one who tends to favour roleplaying and more slower gameplay, which /tg/ doesn't really offer to a large extent, especially compared to cm. Average rounds on /tg/ tend to last anywhere between 30 minutes to an hour, and although they can reach longer times, I feel there isn't enough substance for me to be occupied during that time. Whereas in cm, I think it is enjoyable and easier to roleplay in due to the slower-paced gameplay and more indepth mechanics, and I find that the setting it is in makes it very easy to react to the situations unfolding around you as a marine.

As I mentioned earlier towards WinterCloud, I believe it is important for a developer or artist to enjoy the environment in which they work. In this case, I think it is important that they enjoy the game they are developing for, and for me personally, cm is a very enjoyable experience and is much more my style and pace.

4. I noticed that you had infrequent commits on the /tg/ github, including 10 months of inactivity at times and that you primarily only commited anything during December 2016 - Jan 2017 and then November 2017-Jan 2018 (I am getting this information from here, if the information is incorrect, let me know). Our dev team is fairly active with sometimes updates being placed in several times a day. The workload and expectations can be very strenuous at times. Are you sure you will be able to commit the time and energy that our dev team typically expects from other developers?

You might be able to piece it together from my feedback thread, but I resigned some time in late 2016-early 2017 and eventually rejoined around the end of 2017 up until early 2018. If the question of activity or ability to work and carry my load is in question, I'd ask you take a look at the list of things I've made above along with their respective threads. Hopefully, that should give you an idea of my willingness and drive to map and work. One thing is that I generally tend to upload all my work in large segments as opposed to smaller updates, so that might account for my low github activity.

[apophis775]

Thanks for answering my questions. I've also contacted /tg/ through the host-chat and received nothing but good reviews and remorse at you leaving them.

[Bmc777]

Hey, sorry for taking so long to get to this. Your previous maps are very impressive. The detail is really great.

I'm going to go ahead and give you a test. The only concern I have at all is that you don't have much experience with CM style mapping, just stations. So this will not be a station.

Map a military base where Marines might perform basic training. A proper atmos setup is not needed, though add vents and piping for those vents for show. Include wiring and proper areas. This doesn't need to be anything massive. 100x100 is plenty, and not all of that space necessarily needs to be filled, as long is it looks good and seems like it could be a functional base.

Use whatever codebase you'd like, and don't be afraid to get creative. Take as long as you'd like, and feel free to post progress pictures here as you are able.

[Okand37]

Hey, sorry for taking so long to get to this. Your previous maps are very impressive. The detail is really great.

I'm going to go ahead and give you a test. The only concern I have at all is that you don't have much experience with CM style mapping, just stations. So this will not be a station.

Map a military base where Marines might perform basic training. A proper atmos setup is not needed, though add vents and piping for those vents for show. Include wiring and proper areas. This doesn't need to be anything massive. 100x100 is plenty, and not all of that space necessarily needs to be filled, as long is it looks good and seems like it could be a functional base.

Use whatever codebase you'd like, and don't be afraid to get creative. Take as long as you'd like, and feel free to post progress pictures here as you are able.

I'm glad to hear you like what I've been able to present thusfar! I've started a bit on the base, and currently am working on the landing zone / entrance area. At the moment, I'm creating the barracks and surrounding preparations area. I'll be using a fork of baystation12 to create the project. 100x100 map size.

EDIT: V.2: Includes the preparations, cafeteria, and barracks area along with the briefing room and operations control center.

[Okand37]

Put in a bit more work last night and today and ironed out most of the lower utility section. Engineering is present with placeholders for the geothermal generators, an SMES room, chief engineer's office, lobby, supply area, break room, storage, and telecommunications (monitoring) station. Next door is the warehouse! Here's a higher quality view version of the image below.

► Show Spoiler

or click here for a higher quality view

Additionally, here's an upscaled version of the minimap from the editor!

► Show Spoiler