Admin Report - Jackieestegado

[solidfury7]

Your Byond Key: Solidfury7

Your Character Name: William 'Jester' Crimson

Their Byond key:Jackieestegado

Approximate time and date of the incident (Central Us Time for best results): Around 7:30pm GMT (01:30 CT) 20/12/2016

Which Admin Protocols (viewtopic.php?f=57&t=5647) were broken:
2. Investigate the situation
a. Contact anyone involved and get their side of the story. Also, check logs. It may not be immediately visible WHO caused the situation, and you may need to talk to several people to figure it out. Try to do this as quickly and efficiently.
6. PIN NOTES TO PLAYERS
a. Take proper notes after, or when banning players, warning players, and when noticing excessively bad behavior from players.

Description of the incident:
I, William 'Jester' Crimson was moving towards the Rasp to gather the two wounded marines on it, as I was making my way to drag the two critical marines off the Rasp (Which someone maliciously launched without PO permission) a CT in a ripley began to block me at the window so I could not grab the marines, just before the Rasp launched, he then proceeded to push me off, sending the marines back down to the over-run planet. We trade words and I hit his Ripley with an unmodified Assault Rifle (No bayonet or anything) a few times, he tells me something along the lines of either "Fuck off" or "Do that again", which in response I hit him again, obviously frustrated that I lost two marines (LZ was overrun, they were dead for sure).He then suddenly begins chasing me, I pause to type things (As some of you all know, I'm a huge roleplayer so even in potential combat situations, I try to RP) after moving away and he then proceeds to clamp my leg with the ripley, resulting in fractures, internal bleeding, external bleeding, 60 units of brute damage and imminent paincrit.

Now, after having my leg nearly tore off for hitting the mech, the equivalent of punching someone in the face and being shot for it, I proceed to destroy his ripley before paincrit took me down, by this time, the marines around me join in and lynch the guy along with me, blowing his head off after I explain what he did.

Now, the round continues until normal, the rasp comes up, we fight them boarders, I'm cloning the dead, healing the wounded and I get boinked.

The investigation by Jackieesegado starts off the usual "I heard you did this because 'X'". Now, the issue I take issue with more so than the ban (which irked me to say the least) was the fact that the banning admin admitted that he had a lot of cases to deal with so he was going to let me off with a warning.

Now, the fact he was going to give me a form of punishment, despite being unable to work out the situation due to time demands. Now, I am an admin at another large server which deals with a huge amount of traffic and admin requests so I really can sympathise. However the fact that he was willing to off-handedly dish out punishment because he didn't time is sloppy and sets a poor example.

I am sure the playerbase would rather have an administration team which would investigate cases correctly albeit at a slowly rate, and not make incorrect judgements resulting in bans merely so they can get to another case and repeat the same sloppy procedure. Incorrect judgements merely breed discontent within the community at the administrations ability to resolve things.

Now, perhaps you could say "Solidfury, you're being a salty little rascal." And perhaps I am, however in all administration judgements against me , I have admitted all wrong-doings and apologized because I was in the wrong. However in this case I adamentely believe the judgement is incorrect.

Now, the thing which REALLY rubbed me up the wrong way was the fact that after he asked a question (I believe it was 'He ripped your leg off') he proceeded to ban me, after I said "One moment, I'm speaking with family" after they walked in the room asking how to print stuff off (You know what families are like) after what must have been 60 seconds, I returned to reply to the administrator to explain that I was back, however I was banned, despite only being told I would be warned. (Which even that I disagreed with.)

NOW, the thing which actually caused the rivers of the sea to try up and create the Great Salt Mines of Solidfury. The ban description "Killed a guy unnecesearly that due to incompetence caused a few marines to die"

That outright is a falsity, it either shows him unable to investigate sufficiently or outright lying. It has no context, nor does it expand on the situation, most of all it is completely inaccurate. It merely sounds like I said "Fuck this guy, he sent down rasp" and shot him rather than the completely different situation which unfolded.

TLDR -
- I hit a ripley with melee after he purposely pushed me away from critical marines and got them killed
- Guy crushes my leg with ripley,
- I shoot his ripley
- He pulls gun out
- I shoot him
-Marines proceed to help me lynch him
- Admin admits he's too busy to investigate properly, he'll let me off with a warning
- I begin to explain my situation in more detail, cut off mid explanation, tell him 'One moment, family issues'
- Bans me regardless after telling me it's only going to be a warning while I'm briefly AFK (60-120seconds)

Now, I've been here for almost a year now and have only received 6 notes (3 of them being new to mechanics and the RP setting aka pre-cloning, 1 a misfire, 2 mistakes of my own which were explained by me to the admin team) and I take my punishments/notes on my chin, however I can honestly say that I cannot disagree more with the administrators handling of the situation. It sets a poor precedent and such things must be fixed before they impact more of the community.


Evidence (screenshots, logs, etc): None, I assumed the ban was a mistake (Hilariously enough, due to the poor description given) However I'm sure logs will certainly be a huge help to this situation.

How you would punish the accused: I do not believe punishment is necessary or would even yield anything, however I do believe the admin in question needs some extreme guidance on certain aspects of administration.

Additional notes - Ban was for 7 hours.

[slc97]

I'll investigate this when I get home from work. Expect results in a few hours.

[Jackie Estegado]

I decided to ban you because you did murder the CT (there was no lynching, one other guy put 2-3 shots into you but I asked him why and he didn't even know what went on), I didn't wait for you to come back because I was really hurrying because a guy was on a murder rampage, which I admit might had been a mistake since I could have just dealt with you later.

[solidfury7]

An individual used a Mech to attempt to kill or at the very least cripple me(Which he succeeded in doing), this likely provides a legitimate response for lethal a lethal response
My prior actions did not pose a threat to him and would be considered 'vandalism' (Melee damage against a Mech from a gun is rather minor I believe)

My actions would at maximum be a minor inconvenience, his actions were life threatening.

I strongly believe that the death of the CT was one of his own making and is merely an example of escalation gone wrong on his part, he chose to in essence, potential kill a marine and he was killed for it, during a critical situation.

[apophis775]

Why was a mech even on the lower deck causing problems?

[solidfury7]

I cannot say, the closest guess I'd get to is that the CT was bored and decided to try be as irritating as possible by blocking and pushing.

No crates were present on the lower deck and the Rasp was grounded (So he'd have no real reason to be moving supplies down there, unless he was moving the wounded but his actions show otherwise)

[Jackie Estegado]

Currently putting logs together, seems like he was actualy putting supplies on.

[slc97]

Okay, so there aren't logs for you hitting the mech or the mech clamping you, so I'm going to have to speculate as to those a bit.

[13:31:58]SAY: Michal Prevatt/The flying banana gaming : Theres some critical stuf for the marines
[13:32:13]SAY: William 'Jester' Crimson/SolidFury7 : Faggot
Guessing this is where you hit him the first time.
[13:32:19]SAY: Michal Prevatt/The flying banana gaming : WTF DUDE
[13:32:35]SAY: Michal Prevatt/The flying banana gaming : IL BRAKE YOU TO BITS ARSE
[13:32:41]SAY: William 'Jester' Crimson/SolidFury7 : Try it, I got AP ammo
[13:32:43]SAY: William 'Jester' Crimson/SolidFury7 : You fucking ape
[13:32:52]SAY: Michal Prevatt/The flying banana gaming : FUCK YOU MORRON
[13:33:03]SAY: Michal Prevatt/The flying banana gaming : DONT
Guessing this is where you him the second time
[13:33:16]SAY: William 'Jester' Crimson/SolidFury7 : So slow hahaha
Then he clamped you.


Here's the firefight

[13:33:30]ATTACK: William 'Jester' Crimson (solidfury7) shot Michal Prevatt (theflyingbananagaming) with a the armor-piercing rifle bullet
[13:33:36]ATTACK: William 'Jester' Crimson (solidfury7) shot Michal Prevatt (theflyingbananagaming) with a the armor-piercing rifle bullet
[13:33:36]ATTACK: William 'Jester' Crimson (solidfury7) shot Michal Prevatt (theflyingbananagaming) with a the armor-piercing rifle bullet
[13:33:36]ATTACK: Michal Prevatt (theflyingbananagaming) shot William 'Jester' Crimson (solidfury7) with a the pistol bullet
[13:33:37]ATTACK: William 'Jester' Crimson (solidfury7) shot Michal Prevatt (theflyingbananagaming) with a the armor-piercing rifle bullet
[13:33:37]ATTACK: William 'Jester' Crimson (solidfury7) shot Michal Prevatt (theflyingbananagaming) with a the armor-piercing rifle bullet
[13:33:40]ATTACK: William 'Jester' Crimson (solidfury7) shot Michal Prevatt (theflyingbananagaming) with a the armor-piercing rifle bullet
[13:33:41]ATTACK: William 'Jester' Crimson (solidfury7) shot Michal Prevatt (theflyingbananagaming) with a the armor-piercing rifle bullet
[13:33:42]ATTACK: William 'Jester' Crimson (solidfury7) shot Unknown (as Michal Prevatt) (theflyingbananagaming) with a the armor-piercing rifle bullet
[13:33:43]ATTACK: William 'Jester' Crimson (solidfury7) shot Unknown (as Michal Prevatt) (theflyingbananagaming) with a the armor-piercing rifle bullet
[13:33:57]ATTACK: Severov Filippovich (mullvad420) shot Unknown (as Michal Prevatt) () with a the shotgun slug
[13:34:00]ATTACK: Severov Filippovich (mullvad420) shot Unknown (as Michal Prevatt) () with a the shotgun slug
[13:34:03]ATTACK: Severov Filippovich (mullvad420) shot Unknown (as Michal Prevatt) () with a the shotgun slug

Here's all the PMs between the CT and Jackie.

[13:34:20]ADMIN: HELP: The flying banana gaming/(Michal Prevatt): william jester crimson juist murderd me - heard by 4 non-AFK admins.
[13:39:05]ADMIN: PM: Jackie Estegado/(Bloody Larva (108))->The flying banana gaming/(Michal Prevatt): Alright, sorry but I had other murder case to solve, Please explain.
[13:40:34]ADMIN: PM: The flying banana gaming/(Michal Prevatt)->Jackie Estegado/(Bloody Larva (108)): so i went down to the hangar to with my ripley to put some crates on the ship so i did the aliens launched the ship i was still on and tried to get out but william was blocking the way so he gets out of my way and when it was gone he punched my ripley i said DUDE WTF
[13:41:01]ADMIN: PM: Jackie Estegado/(Bloody Larva (108))->The flying banana gaming/(Michal Prevatt): Logs actualy say you squeezed him with the ripley.
[13:41:26]ADMIN: PM: The flying banana gaming/(Michal Prevatt)->Jackie Estegado/(Bloody Larva (108)): and then some shit later i said dont do it again so he dose it again i am trying to pinch hem i pinch him and he shoots my to bits
[13:41:45]ADMIN: PM: The flying banana gaming/(Michal Prevatt)->Jackie Estegado/(Bloody Larva (108)): yeah i did becous he fucking warned him not to but he did
[13:42:08]ADMIN: PM: The flying banana gaming/(Michal Prevatt)->Jackie Estegado/(Bloody Larva (108)): and i pinched him and he filled me with lead
[13:42:22]ADMIN: PM: The flying banana gaming/(Michal Prevatt)->Jackie Estegado/(Bloody Larva (108)): ow and some other marine shot my head of
[13:42:30]ADMIN: PM: Jackie Estegado/(Bloody Larva (108))->The flying banana gaming/(Michal Prevatt): So you squeezed him because?
[13:43:05]ADMIN: PM: The flying banana gaming/(Michal Prevatt)->Jackie Estegado/(Bloody Larva (108)): he punched me so i warned him to do it again i pinch him he did it again i pinched him shot to bits
[13:43:21]ADMIN: PM: Jackie Estegado/(Bloody Larva (108))->The flying banana gaming/(Michal Prevatt): There is no log of him punching you.
[13:43:32]ADMIN: PM: The flying banana gaming/(Michal Prevatt)->Jackie Estegado/(Bloody Larva (108)): yeah i mean the ripley
[13:43:55]ADMIN: PM: Jackie Estegado/(Bloody Larva (108))->The flying banana gaming/(Michal Prevatt): He punched the ripley.. which does no damage.. and you squeeze him for it?
[13:45:09]ADMIN: Jackie Estegado/(Bloody Larva (108)) has edited theflyingbananagaming's notes: Squezed a marine with ripley's clamp because a marine punched the ripley.
[13:45:09]ADMIN: PM: The flying banana gaming/(Michal Prevatt)->Jackie Estegado/(Bloody Larva (108)): do you listen ? i said he punched the ripley i told him not to he did it again i pinched him he filled me with lead
[13:45:46]ADMIN: PM: Jackie Estegado/(Bloody Larva (108))->The flying banana gaming/(Michal Prevatt): That is completly unnecesearly, the ripley's clamp does a lot of damage, while him punching the ripley does ridicilously low damage.
[13:46:27]ADMIN: PM: The flying banana gaming/(Michal Prevatt)->Jackie Estegado/(Bloody Larva (108)): yeah i gues but do you see me walking on the ship and he dead no

Here's the PMs between you and Jackie, and Jackie and Mullvad.

[13:47:09]ADMIN: PM: Jackie Estegado/(Bloody Larva (108))->SolidFury7/(William 'Jester' Crimson): Hey, so you killed a guy named Michal Prevatt for clamping you with a ripley right?
[13:47:55]ADMIN: PM: SolidFury7/(William 'Jester' Crimson)->Jackie Estegado/(Bloody Larva (108)): Aye, clamped me with Ripley for hitting his ripley with my weapon when he pushed me out the shuttle on purpose, forcing my wounded to go back to the planet <And I assume, die>
[13:48:40]ADMIN: PM: SolidFury7/(William 'Jester' Crimson)->Jackie Estegado/(Bloody Larva (108)): Marines saw it and lynched him for me after we critted each other
[13:50:11]ADMIN: PM: Jackie Estegado/(Bloody Larva (108))->Mullvad420/(Severov Filippovich): Hey, so what happened with Michal Prevatt, apearently he pushed marines off the shuttle and you guys lynched him for it?
[13:51:08]ADMIN: PM: Mullvad420/(Severov Filippovich)->Jackie Estegado/(Bloody Larva (108)): I'm not exactly sure, i heard some gunshots and saw a bald CT being shot for pushing people off, i shot him once or twice when he was dead
[13:51:59]ADMIN: PM: Jackie Estegado/(Bloody Larva (108))->SolidFury7/(William 'Jester' Crimson): Alright, so turns out its really only you that knew what was going on.
[13:52:21]ADMIN: PM: SolidFury7/(William 'Jester' Crimson)->Jackie Estegado/(Bloody Larva (108)): Ah, so they all just jumped the gun for an excuse to shoot, it sounds like,
[13:53:14]ADMIN: PM: Jackie Estegado/(Bloody Larva (108))->SolidFury7/(William 'Jester' Crimson): Yeah, anyways I am getting flooded by random murders so I have to deal with you quickly. You didn't really had to murder the guy so I will give you a warning for now, don't do it again.
[13:53:52]ADMIN: PM: SolidFury7/(William 'Jester' Crimson)->Jackie Estegado/(Bloody Larva (108)): I didn't but you do realise he just ripped my leg off for hitting a machine, that is like shooting someone for punching you in the face
[13:54:25]ADMIN: PM: Jackie Estegado/(Bloody Larva (108))->SolidFury7/(William 'Jester' Crimson): Ripped your leg off?
[13:55:00]ADMIN: PM: SolidFury7/(William 'Jester' Crimson)->Jackie Estegado/(Bloody Larva (108)): Practically, clamping it does major damage to - Bare with me, family[13:56:32]ADMIN: jackieestegado has banned solidfury7|Duration: 440 minutes|Reason: Killed a guy unnecesearly that due to incompetence caused a few marines to die.

Results:

The reason you were banned is because Jackie forgot to check your notes before he said he was going to give you a warning. You currently have 3 notes that involve you either killing your teammates, causing the death of your teammates, or harming your teammates. You probably should have been banned for that type of behavior a long time ago. From the logs, it seems that Prevatt was in fact loading supplies on when you started all of this. The first thing you did was insult him, then you threatened him with AP rounds. I can understand him trying to disable you for this seeing as you've already begun attacking his mech.

There was no lynch mob as you claimed. You lit him up with AP rounds, and then one guy shot his head off after he was dead which was stupid of that guy, but I digress. I believe you should have received a 3 hour ban for this kind of behavior a long time ago, and this should have been a 24 hour ban.

The only thing I can see that Jackie did wrong was failing to check your notes before he told you it was going to be a warning, and I will be discussing procedure with him shortly.
I'll also discuss ban times with him as 7 hours is pretty arbitrary of a number.

[solidfury7]

So, let us start off with the claim the notes. The way you phrase it makes me sound malicious and is quiet honestly, outright deceptive because even the brief notes say otherwise.. So lets work them out

1 - "Opened the shutters on the shuttle and at least one marine was killed due to this then claimed he didnt know what it did because he was new to the game, given a warning by (Moderator) on Sun, July 31st of 2016 "
So, this is when I was still rather new, playing casually. Making the first transition from my other servers. The note even supports this, to use it as 'evidence' is rather silly.

2 - "As a survivor, grenaded 2 fellow survivors with a grenade. I was told that he was cooking the grenade and hiding behind other survivors and showed no intent to throw it. Logged off before I could question him. The grenade blast knocked down all 3 survivors causing them to be captured. by (Moderator) on Sun, August 14th of 2016 "

We were holding out telecomms and one of the chaps ran infront of me, therefore I instead tried to run around the corner to throw the grenade upwards (near the entrance to the tree) but it exploded, however by then by of the guys were already hugged, myself included.

Regardless, survivors often commit suicide with grenades to prevent the spread of infection, no rule really prevents them from harming other survivors, they are also exempt from marine specific rules such as rule 1 - Lethal Force until they are rescued, which we were not.

But, that was just a happy accident (As commiting suicide with frag grenades never works)

3- Accidently shot two people, any further incidents will result in removal. by (TrialAdmin) on Thu, September 8th of 2016

This was simply just a misclick, which happens to the best of us.

Now, you're using 3 obviously accidental cases in an unrelated case of a firefight which both sides tried to kill each other.

Manslaughter and Murder are not the same thing, claiming they are really holds no ground. That is like using accidental FF cases to justify shoot outs.

That fact you fail to see the difference is actually rather disappointing.
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Now, let us move on to the fact you seemingly failed to address one of the complaints you are now approving that the fact that threatening someone and punching their mech is grounds for them to be crippled/killed

Perhaps not word for word but by accepting this argument below, you are.

"[13:45:09]ADMIN: PM: The flying banana gaming/(Michal Prevatt)->Jackie Estegado/(Bloody Larva (108)): do you listen ? i said he punched the ripley i told him not to he did it again i pinched him he filled me with lead"]#"

Perhaps If I was damaging his ripley with bullets or a machete, I'd say it was reasonable escalation however I'll repeat once again, you're saying that his actions were legitimate, that due to my insult (due to him off-hand killing 2 marines) and punch on his mech, that I am fair game.

That sounds extremely silly, if someone came to a construction sight and began hitting a digger, do you think they would run over his legs after punching the metal (to no effect) and threatening them? No? Well that really is breaking "Marine Specific Law 1 - Lethal Force - Do not physically attack any other human without a legitimate, explainable, roleplay reason that could be applied in a similar, real-life scenario. Even if you are justified, you are still susceptible to Marine Law."


Also, the fact you claim he is trying to "disable me" for doing non-existent damage is misleading, that is like saying "Well, I shot him in to critical to disable him". Which is something I believe is not allowed on this server, especially when no physical threat was present. He could of continued on his way after I ran off but instead chose to pretty much crush a limb, hell, he could of called MPs if he so wished.

------------------------------------------------------

Regarding the lynch mob, evidently not all engaged as both I and the other guy thought, however shots were fired and a small crowd was gathered around him


--------------------------------------------------------

On a slightly unrelated note, I do believe another chap is working on a complaint for the same admin for an unrelated case. Considering he's only just been modded, I consider it ever so slightly worrying.

[slc97]

I have to take your notes as they are written. You have a history of injuring your teammates that I absolutely believe should play a role in this.

As per your metaphor about the construction sight. If I were driving machinery and some guy with a gun comes up to me yelling at me and hitting my machinery and telling me that he has bullets that are gonna take out my machinery and me, then yes I would run him over.

It is my belief that this entire situation could have and would have been avoided if you hadn't needlessly started a fight. Anyway, I've spoken to Jackie regarding the matter. The rest of this will be left up to Feweh to decide.

[solidfury7]

One of the notes says that I'm new to the server and the other says I accidentally shot two people (Which happens all the time, it's a marine meme for a reason)

The second one doesn't expand too much as I was logged off by that part, so I can concede that.

The injection of the weapon changes the dynamic of the metaphor therefore making it useless, comparing a marine to a random chap with a gun makes no sense. Not to mention the threat was given in retort when he says " IL BRAKE YOU TO BITS ARSE" while wielding a mech which can tear you apart limb from limb and moving towards me with it.

Oh it could have, however, that still doesn't justify his actions, marine A could call marine B a baldie, marine B could proceed to stab the insulting marine to death. If we were to follow such a train of thought.

Not to mention the fact that he blocked the Rasp got two other chaps killed really is what got old William going.

Regardless, I'll wait for Fewehs input.

[Feweh]

You did say you were going to shoot him....?
Then he clamped you?

[solidfury7]

[13:32:35]SAY: Michal Prevatt/The flying banana gaming : IL BRAKE YOU TO BITS ARSE
- Proceeds to step forward towards me with the mech-
[13:32:41]SAY: William 'Jester' Crimson/SolidFury7 : Try it, I got AP ammo
[13:32:43]SAY: William 'Jester' Crimson/SolidFury7 : You fucking ape

As you may assume, the "Try it" is because I know he's insinuated trying to clamp me.

[Feweh]

SLC is going to speak to Jack, but the issue might lack of logs showing the whole clamping etc.
Eitherway, in the future.... don't shoot back and it's far easier to see whos guilty of what.

[apophis775]

Are you shitting me?

Literally you and the other guy have fucking 4 pages of notes between you. I'm not disciplining a staff member for a 7 hour ban against two people who were shitting all over each other in a bitchfit like this.

You were both wrong, you both have a pile of negative notes, and "It was an accident" doesn't fly forever.

He shouldn't have Crushed your leg, but you shouldn't have been antagonizing him. Based on what you said, I'm pretty sure you intended to kill him when the "encounter" started.

Both of you got in trouble, both of you got punished.

Deal with your time out, and in the future if someone tears off your leg AHELP it, don't shoot him.