Reporting a Commander

[UnknownMurder]

I am going to take it that none of you, ladies and gentlemen, know the story behind of what happened. Some of you deserve a say in this. Some of you probably not do not deserve a say in my mindset. I don't care about your OOC, IC, or metabuddy relationship with Dunsil.

We are talking about a man who actually refuses to do his duty in this particular round, sat around while complaining about the power while we took action. Why are we even discussing this? What matters is that, people were screwed up under his duty. Now, if you think I actually care about winning or losing. I'll reply only this, I do not care about the winning or losing ratios. You don't see me using W/L as my forum signature. I don't come to this server to be a winner. I come from Aurora Station, a server in which does not care about winning and involves higher RP, no offense, than this server contains. So, your approach on winning and losing is moot and valuing incompetent Commander RP to ruin a round cannot be used to defend a point. Although, if does succeeds in defending the point, a pattern of rising incompetent Commander RP will start rising and a future administrative action will be taken to tackle the obstacle properly. To say this in another perspective, anyone can just go LOL INCOMPETENT COMMANDER and ruin the fun for others then admins will have to step in and place a rule or expectations of Commanders. Drawing in the lore doesn't count because there is some stuff we have from the lore and stuff we don't have from the lore.

This brings up the topic of GRIEFING vs. RPing Incompetent Commanders, let me quote Apophis's statement.

the Whitelist was made specifically to stop this type of behavior.

To conclude the statement, certain players, myself, and some staff members have fought a long battle to get the restrictions in placed to keep incompetent commanders out of the position and putting competent commanders in place. I did notice that it was easy to get whitelist however you will be more disciplined and expected to behave as a reasonable Commander, I speak by experience.

I do not intend on letting this fish get off the hook by just RPing and acting like incompetent Commander. This is generally unacceptable. If it's acceptable on this server, I fear that my expectations bar for Commanders are too high to reach. I don't know why we're having this discussion in a player report.

[NoahKirchner]

I think this brings up an interesting conversation on the purpose of the commander application.

Is it meant to ensure that the only people playing commander are at least moderately familiar with the game's systems?

Or is it meant to ensure that the marines always have a good commander?

One allows for a greater range of roleplay, the other allows for a greater competitive nature, and I think that whether or not this player report goes through would really reflect its purpose in practice as opposed to in theory.

I am personally of the mind that having bad commanders occasionally are fine. I'd be bored out of my mind if every commander I ever had was absolutely perfect, I want to be able to mutiny against a commander sometimes. Sure, commanders who are typing in broken english and SSD 10 minutes into the round are no fun, but as long as he's playing the role and not griefing, I really don't see a rule break here beyond not being a good commander.

Regardless of how much it would annoy me to have him as a commander, I really cannot think to remove him from the whitelist over something this minor, but that is just my opinion on the matter.

[Fitchace]

A commander is only incompetent if his men are incompetent.

When people say that's a shit order it results in people not being in places they are supposed to be resulting in fingers pointed at shit commander.

[Sneakyr]

1. This type of behavior from commanders is irritating at best and leads to even worse RP such as marines yelling "MUTINY! (X) IS THE COMMANDER [REEEEEEEEEE]" at the beginning of every round and it needs to be curbed.
2. The excuse "MUH RP" is always thrown around in cases like this - a precedent has been set of it being only slightly less than tolerated, at least publicly. I can't see anything but a slap on the wrist for this incident or any future ones (not just Dunril) unless it becomes significantly worse/more frequent from a commander.
3. It's a whitelist for a reason - if you want to pretend (assuming the perpetrators are actually pretending) to be incompetent, take the Executive Officer role instead, which does not have a whitelist and therefore lower standards.
Tried to keep this brief. Really, I don't think it is a big deal in this specific incident, but when seen repeatedly across multiple people (who shall remain unnamed) it can get annoying.

[NoahKirchner]

1. This type of behavior from commanders is irritating at best and leads to even worse RP such as marines yelling "MUTINY! (X) IS THE COMMANDER [REEEEEEEEEE]" at the beginning of every round and it needs to be curbed.
2. The excuse "MUH RP" is always thrown around in cases like this - a precedent has been set of it being only slightly less than tolerated, at least publicly. I can't see anything but a slap on the wrist for this incident or any future ones (not just Dunril) unless it becomes significantly worse/more frequent from a commander.
3. It's a whitelist for a reason - if you want to pretend (assuming the perpetrators are actually pretending) to be incompetent, take the Executive Officer role instead, which does not have a whitelist and therefore lower standards.
Tried to keep this brief. Really, I don't think it is a big deal in this specific incident, but when seen repeatedly across multiple people (who shall remain unnamed) it can get annoying.

Sure but the issue with the "REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE" thing is an issue from their subordinates not RPing and the roleplay guidelines not being enforced beyond those that bleed into the main ruleset. There is a difference between being incompetent as a player and incompetent as a character. Sure, being overly incompetent and doing it just to piss people off is prolly not good, but there needs to be leeway for people to not be good commanders. The whitelist was *supposed* to just be an anti baldie measure. Sure, it might not be great RP, but it can *lead* to more fun situations.

[UnknownMurder]

A commander is only incompetent if his men are incompetent.

When people say that's a shit order it results in people not being in places they are supposed to be resulting in fingers pointed at shit commander.

Irrelevant.

Noah brings up an interesting approach to the purpose of whitelist in which I am in agreement to question, however Noah says it is minor. I'm sorry, but I see it as major as he took no actions in helping the situation. This is not an incident I can just let it slide by with a slap on a wrist. Otherwise, do we need to go over on what is TO and what is not? Someone did comment that this Commander was acting like Zapp Branningan. That one particular imbecile Captain.

[TexasTwoStep]

After reviewing logs, I can't really acclaim that their actions were out of place for their status.

While yes, people got annoyed with him, the apparent issue was in LOOC, where players that were frustrated. Sometimes running underneath an annoying CO is a chore, it's something you have to deal with.

I pertake that although "salting" things up after in death-chat about playing incompetent was the powerder-keg for the situation, although most Marines blame Command when they die, regardless if it was because they ran into the Xeno Nest and tried to "360 knife fight, headshot, trickshot, only."

Don't see a reason to take moderation against an IC issue that could've been solved by the entire crew of the USS Almayer if he was *truely* that *bad*.

Signed,

~Drax.

[NoahKirchner]

Irrelevant.

Noah brings up an interesting approach to the purpose of whitelist in which I am in agreement to question, however Noah says it is minor. I'm sorry, but I see it as major as he took no actions in helping the situation. This is not an incident I can just let it slide by with a slap on a wrist. Otherwise, do we need to go over on what is TO and what is not? Someone did comment that this Commander was acting like Zapp Branningan. That one particular imbecile Captain.

I mention it is minor in grand scheme. Sure he annoyed a lot of people but it doesn't appear like he was properly griefing. Sure he might've been being a dick but is that grounds to remove someone from the whitelist?

[Feweh]

Ill look into this further shortly.

[David Attenbruv]

Well meme'd.

I am going to take it that none of you, ladies and gentlemen, know the story behind of what happened. Some of you deserve a say in this. Some of you probably not do not deserve a say in my mindset. I don't care about your OOC, IC, or metabuddy relationship with Dunsil.

>So because we defend someone we're automatically metabuddies.

Again you have the tendency to throw out some digs though it means little and only really paints you out to be the salty one, when you could stay objective and simply argue the facts with proof and fact you just seem to fill your replies with little remarks to try to dig at people not just the one you are seeking to get job banned.

We are talking about a man who actually refuses to do his duty in this particular round, sat around while complaining about the power while we took action. Why are we even discussing this? What matters is that, people were screwed up under his duty. Now, if you think I actually care about winning or losing. I'll reply only this, I do not care about the winning or losing ratios. You don't see me using W/L as my forum signature. I don't come to this server to be a winner. I come from Aurora Station, a server in which does not care about winning and involves higher RP, no offense.

He didn't refuse to do it at all, he never said that he wasn't going to do his role he just did it in a way that was subpar. Though that brings up the argument on what's subpar from what's acceptable and everyone's going to argue until their blue in the fact about it. So I wont get into that and where you come from server wise or game wise has no relevance then to top it off with yet another backhanded insult with the excuse of a "No Offense." I can tell someone to get cancer then go "No Offense." Though meaning offense by it or take offense from it. Not that I do however though that's a p'petty dig none the less.

So, your approach on winning and losing is moot and valuing incompetent Commander RP to ruin a round cannot be used to defend a point. Although, if does succeeds in defending the point, a pattern of rising incompetent Commander RP will start rising and a future administrative action will be taken to tackle the obstacle properly.

That's a fair lackluster comment, you could say that for anything. Allowing someone to top them selves when they're nested may ripple effect onto people just topping them selves to overall not get dragged away by Xenos or just people doing it for the Vine. Either way to argue a ripple effect from one CO's actions, which are pretty minor IMO, Is pretty flimsy and doesn't really hold weight. If anything it could have the adverse effect and make people not want to be like him, you don't know that I don't know that.

To say this in another perspective, anyone can just go LOL INCOMPETENT COMMANDER and ruin the fun for others then admins will have to step in and place a rule or expectations of Commanders. Drawing in the lore doesn't count because there is some stuff we have from the lore and stuff we don't have from the lore.

You're seeming to confront this like he's the Martin Luther King of CO's guiding us all to a bad way of gameplay and the white man will have to put up with it. It was a slip up on his account, a slap on the wrist and if he does it again whitelist removal worthy by all means. Though it's not as horrendous as you're painting it out to be.

This brings up the topic of GRIEFING vs. RPing Incompetent Commanders, let me quote Apophis's statement.

Quoting Apop' for this specific subject is a bit meh, Apop's taking a netural demeanour in this argument. Not taking sides until people are heard.

I do not intend on letting this fish get off the hook by just RPing and acting like incompetent Commander. This is generally unacceptable. If it's acceptable on this server, I fear that my expectations bar for Commanders are too high to reach. I don't know why we're having this discussion in a player report.

Again just another under the belt dig toward people in the Community again in a general sense. You should really just stick to the objective argumentative fact rather than just doing these really like, sly dig remarks. If you were actually trying to pin this as if you're cutting out a tumor from the body that is CM, wouldn't you of just had a private conversation with him? A PM on the forums or something on Discord. At least attempt to reason before removal.

You dress it up well, though all I see is salt and sly digs. 10/10 -IGN.

(Also cause I know admins are circleing this thread like a fat man to a half price buffet, I was a witness to the situation IG.)

[Kavrick]

I would say that intentional incompetence is worse than normal incompetence

[Feweh]

Heres my thing and you guys are open to argue with it.

I have no issue with Commanders not role-playing SUPER AWESOME POWERGAMING characters.

Take Bill Carson for example, great RPer but he gives some questionable shitty orders for RP reasons which could be considered incompetent.
So how is this any different as the CO was trying to create RP and tension on the ship? Which actually succeeded judging by peoples reaction.


Whitelist is to filter out baldies who join CO and say nothing, suicide instantly or fuck off giving no orders.
It is not a whitelist to put the best people ever that everyone likes into CO, it's a basic strainer to stop baldies.

[Steelpoint]

People don't like being led to defeat.

People necessarily won't rail against being given 'bad' orders, but those orders should make some in game sense and in a best case scenario have a outcome that succeeds in winning.

Giving bad order's that cause conflict for the sake of it, and have no real possible good outcome, will just piss off people.

The role of the Commander should be to attempt to lead the Marines to victory, even if said path to victory is laden with bad or questionable orders. It should not be the job of the Commander to create conflict out of nothing for the sake of creating conflct.

[nodnodnod]

If Braddock isn't allowed, then the absolutely autistic commanders that also plague the server shouldn't be allowed.


At least Braddock roleplays his shit well.

Also: mfw people want powergaming > roleplaying. Why even hold onto the last grasps of low-to-medium-RP at this point lol. Just go full Hippie mode, if the players are going to genuinely bitch and moan about a CO being incompetent.

Here's a fucking spoiler: it's not uncommon IRL that people in positions of command in the military don't do well when put in actual situations.

[4thsurviver]

I'm noticing a lot of people seem to equate competence to power gaming here. I would expect any CO in real life to try and win by any means whether its for the men, medals, glory, or survival. I think its acceptable RP to try and win as CO because what else is the CO there for in universe if not to win?

As for the whole pressure thing its not like this is their first deployment. They aren't Lt. Gorman with two combat drops. They are a Commander they been through the ranks of LT and XO they have served time and should have some degree of experience and shouldn't completely snap under the pressure.

I like some incompetence in my commanders from time to time but I don't want to see it become the norm. If every CO or a large portion of them act incompetence every round it will always become a Carson round with the marines ignoring or shitting on the CO before they even open their mouth. My 2 cents here are to Dunril. Play your character as a normal competent CO and wait for circumstances to permit some good RP of incompetence and failure to adapt. That way you can still mix it up and have fun but also build up a reliable reputation so no one thinks you are just trying to throw the round.

[Kyrac]

I'm noticing a lot of people seem to equate competence to power gaming here. I would expect any CO in real life to try and win by any means whether its for the men, medals, glory, or survival. I think its acceptable RP to try and win as CO because what else is the CO there for in universe if not to win?

As for the whole pressure thing its not like this is their first deployment. They aren't Lt. Gorman with two combat drops. They are a Commander they been through the ranks of LT and XO they have served time and should have some degree of experience and shouldn't completely snap under the pressure.

I like some incompetence in my commanders from time to time but I don't want to see it become the norm. If every CO or a large portion of them act incompetence every round it will always become a Carson round with the marines ignoring or shitting on the CO before they even open their mouth. My 2 cents here are to Dunril. Play your character as a normal competent CO and wait for circumstances to permit some good RP of incompetence and failure to adapt. That way you can still mix it up and have fun but also build up a reliable reputation so no one thinks you are just trying to throw the round.

This, you shouldn't be breaking down from the pressure already, you're experienced. You don't become the rank of Commander just like that. Marines have lost pretty much every round at this point and we could use good leadership, unless we're intended to lose.

[Feweh]

The only time I've removed someone from CO was for OOC incompetency and Powergaming.

This was because he multiple times ruined rounds causing them to end prematurely.
Twice they ordered odd FOBs that were bypassed by the aliens in a matter of 60 minutes and another time he learnt from this error and placed a OB at round start by the Dropship console killing the xenos when they called the dropship to bypass his stupid FOB design. (as he expected at this point).


We are not going to remove players for giving questionable orders once and awhile, will also not remove players who don't live up to peoples expectations simply because you didn't like them that round.

If it adds roleplay, events and interest to the round then it's acceptable
If it ruins rounds completely with odd orders or rule-breaking issues.. they'll be removed.

This report falls in the the acceptable category of simply role-playing a character, no worse than someone like Bill Carson who will openly order entire squads to their death to save himself.

This is a reminder that CO whitelist is not built up of robust, power-gamey, win-hungry players. It's a basic filter to stop badlies from getting to the position and doing nothing all game.

With that said, take this as a warning Dunril that you'll be monitored in the future. Being incompetent and not giving or doing the best a round here and there is acceptable, doing that every round is a problem.

[Kovalchuk17]

This is a good read all around, strong arguements all around

[NoahKirchner]

This is a good read all around, strong arguements all around

It really is up to what people think the whitelist is utilized for, neither side is "wrong", per say. It even seems that apop and feweh seem to differ a fair bit on the matter, from his responses in CO apps and talking to him from Feweh's responses here. A very curious situation.

[David Attenbruv]

It really is up to what people think the whitelist is utilized for, neither side is "wrong", per say. It even seems that apop and feweh seem to differ a fair bit on the matter, from his responses in CO apps and talking to him from Feweh's responses here. A very curious situation.

I think that it was probably just better off resolved as a "Don't do it again." Type situation and a slap on the wrist, that way CO don't get off with it like Murder wants and Dunril keeps the whitelist, everyone's happy.

[NoahKirchner]

I think that it was probably just better off resolved as a "Don't do it again." Type situation and a slap on the wrist, that way CO don't get off with it like Murder wants and Dunril keeps the whitelist, everyone's happy.

Feweh's stated before similar beliefs when people were going hard on people, it is just interesting.

[Feweh]

Resolved.

CO in questiom has been warned that this isnt acceptable behavior every round.