Player Report - Swagile (CO)

[Chaznoodles]

Your Byond Key: Chaznoodles.

Your Character Name: Josen 'Flex' Keelin.

Accused Byond Key(if known): Swagile.

Character Name: Brett Tedrow.

Approximate time and date of the incident (Central US Time for fastest results): 5:30pm GMT/11:30am CST.

What rule(s) were broken: 1.Lethal Force - Do not physically attack any other human without a legitimate, explainable, roleplay reason that could be applied in a similar, real-life scenario.

Description of the incident: As the Bravo SL, I was listening in to the available channels. The CO had Requisitions deny attachments to standard marine unless they brought a full bag of AP magazines to the desk, which made the marine extremely antsy and started complaints. At this point, the CO had numerous marines detained for jokingly talking about mutiny. At this point in time, nobody wanted a mutiny and were just doing the usual marine thing of talking about the CO being an ass, the usual standard. At this point, things started to take a turn for the worse. One of the people who was arrested was another SL, Lin Chang, who had no idea what she was arrested for. I heard numerous reports of the CO trying to have those that had been detained executed. At this point, I started to ask the Command staff to get their stuff in gear and sort the situation. A Staff Office, name lost in logs, told me that he was attempting to talk the CO down. I waited in Briefing with the marines present for the result of this. A few minutes later, the SO said that he could not get in contact with the CO. Due to this, I began to organise a nonviolent change of command. A staff member was notified and we garnered the support for it. During the course of this, I repeatedly asked the CO to stand down and pass Command to his XO. He proceeded to up the alert to red and fully arm the entire MP and CIC complement with heavy-duty weaponry.

Having got the go-ahead from SLC, the staff member dealing with the mutiny, I informed the marines present that we would be peacefully marching on the CIC in order to orchestrate a nonviolent change of command. The marines complied with this. We arrived at the southern CIC to find the blast doors were down. A MP and a SO were in the break room to the south. I asked the CO to raise the blast shields and he did not comply, so I had an engineer C4 and destroy the blast shields. The MP and SO proceeded to open the doors for us so we could deal with the situation. I walked in first to the CIC, guns holstered, and instantly received enough smartgun rounds to the face from the CO to instacrit me. The CO and accompanying staff then proceeded to slaughter the rest of the marines who were entering the room after me - who all had their weapons holstered - without a word.

I feel like this was a gross breach of rule 1, as none of the marines were intent on using any kind of force to orchestrate the changeover in command, whereas the CO and accompanying staff opened fire without a word. This resulted in a good number of players being taken out of the round permanently - due to nonstop flashbangs from CIC staff stopping medics from doing their job - as well as meaning the round could not progress onto the real game itself. I feel this was a blatant misuse of the CO's power in firstly attempting to have people executed for what everyone regarded as a joke, and then gunning down unarmed marines without a word.

Evidence (screenshots, logs, etc): Logged the round but too much time had passed and the relevant text had disappeared.

How you would punish the accused: Whitelist removal, or punishment as deemed appropriate.

[Swagile]

Alright, here is my side of the story. I would like to add some points before I go further, and ill respond to the complaint in full at the bottom after the points and the story is told.

1. I have asked before, and CO's breaking Marine Law is an IC issue and is to be dealt with as such. There is a fax in CMP's office that any MP or the WO himself can access in order to ask High Command for instructions on if said Command official should be taken down for breaking Marine Law. The CL can also do so in his own fax machine if he believes it is warranted, but might not get a response unless its serious, from my understanding.

2. I have a very short list of execution reasons. I only use execution for a very select few situations, or if a WO requests it and has a logical reason for one of their prisoners. One of them is "joking" about mutiny, the other is gross negligence / insubordination leading to fellow marine deaths (SL ordering his squad against legal orders against an enemy position [Xenos] and losing half his squad), or mental illness which I have only dealt with once.

3. I only stand down from legal Command if I feel there is a legitimate reason for the mutiny. If I ordered constant death charges against an enemy that obviously is deterred from such, and someone mutinies, I would stand down. If I ordered wounded marines to fight an enemy when they obviously cannot do so and they mutiny, I would stand down. In this case, the reason for mutiny (from what I gathered) is detaining marines for breaking Marine Law and because I wanted a marine executed for inciting a mutiny. I wouldn't stand down for such a reason, since the original reason for starting the mutiny was because I granted 3 attachments to any PFC or lower who handed in a bag of AP, and 0 attachments to any who didn't. Before you say its a "joke", joking about a mutiny is not something my character tolerates, since it undermines legal authority vested into the Command structure.



Now, let us begin the story of how this all ended up in such a clusterfuck. I signed up as a CO at start of round and decided to restrict attachments for PFC's and lower ONLY to 0 unless they handed in a bag full of AP; in return, they'd get 3 attachments as a REWARD for following orders. Most people did this, and I personally gave a webbing to a John 'Spartan' Murry for being the first to follow my policy with a webbing since Requisitions ran out of webbings. I did this to encourage others to do so, as they might even get the CO themselves to personally find and give them their attachments; a morale boost, persay.

I also had to get MP's to arrest Lin Chang, SL, for disorderly conduct as they were holding up the line because they didn't get a BC, as Requisitions was holding said attachments back for Smartgunners only as is their right as Requisitions.

When I got back to CIC with all squad comms turned on, however, one of the first things I heard was Derek Foster, Alpha Spec, essentially stating "lets mutiny". I asked for MP's to brig them and execute them when they got a chance. I also announced on Command Announcement that Red Alert was to be put up due to talks of mutiny on squad comms, and armed up with my fellow CIC staff.

This was when things got clusterfucky. Marines started cursing Command and telling them to let go of brigged marines, as well as one of my own SO's going against me. I had XO deal with Brig as he wanted to and he started setting people who were against Command to arrest. Then a MP, Stan Phillip, started saying that I was going to execute a marine for "disrespecting the CO", which was not at all true. This, however, started a firestorm and marines started to get heated up even more. I ahelped about eliminating the MP for spreading false information in order to rile up marines, but it was too late. The damage was done and the mutiny was fully in effect, as SL's started telling me to stand down. One such SL was Josen, who gave me a warning that if I didn't stand down, they'd deal with me.

I did not stand down, as I said above, because I felt it was a stupid reason to mutiny ICly. I would not relieve my command to the XO as they suggested because the reason for the mutiny was unwarranted. That is why I made a Command Announcement that all marines that are non-mutineers are to stay in their preps. This would minimize confusion, and the death of innocent marines, while allowing MP's to realize who the real mutineers were. Shortly after my announcement (about five minutes or so), CIC was C4'd into and marines started rushing into CIC.

I took this as an act of war, especially after Josen's warning and my Command Announcement, and opened fire. MP's and fellow CIC staff with me also opened fire (I believe? I was too busy focusing on not getting shot up by a smartgunner rushing me), and we managed to subdue most of them. The MP's got the rest to stand down and a medic who didn't open fire was also spared as he began healing everyone that could be healed.

Things after that got murky as I was busy defending myself in msay and trying to focus on not getting killed while my MP's and loyal CIC staff opened fire on any marines entering CIC South as well as flash bangs being thrown down. I had a marine escort later on trying to deal with me, as well as a SO who also aimed a gun at me, but that was dealt with accordingly. The escort was lead out, and the SO was gunned down.

This all culminated into the last assault marines made, which was on North CIC, where Ryan Leigh, MP, point blank shot both me and the WO to end the mutiny.

That is my side of it; ask questions if you have anything to say about my side of it or add your own side; this is a open report for anyone who was part of or outside of the mutiny, after all.

[Rain7x]

Before this topic gets too messy, an admin going to look through the logs and see what they can find.

Please do not reply if you are not a witness, your post will be deleted.

[apophis775]

When I got back to CIC with all squad comms turned on, however, one of the first things I heard was Derek Foster, Alpha Spec, essentially stating "lets mutiny". I asked for MP's to brig them and execute them when they got a chance. I also announced on Command Announcement that Red Alert was to be put up due to talks of mutiny on squad comms, and armed up with my fellow CIC staff.

You can not order people to execute for you. execution is a commander only ability.
Also, you can't execute people in prison, they are protected by MPs.

I'll wait for the report on this, to see if we remove you from commander.

[Kavlo]

Alright Feweh asked me to investigate this shitstorm of a round so let's start this off.

So first off,

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Swagile/(Brett Tedrow) has made Command Announcement: Command Announcement - Attention, attention. This is your CO speaking. Id like to state something before briefing is announced; a new policy is in place due to USCM health studies being printed in my office. AP is a dangerous killer of marines due to bad firing discipline, hence all PVT's and PFC's are getting no attachments unless they hand in an entire bag full of AP to the RO. If you had a bag full of AP to the RO, you get THREE attachments. Briefing will be at 12:20. - Brett Tedrow (Commander)

And so marines do infact get a bit antsy, then the MPs step in and start arresting people for disrespect to superiors and unholstered weapons in the Req line so it's getting worse.

Then marines start getting arrested for the reason "Mutiny" however the problem is they're arresting so many marines they're just blanket terming them all as Mutineers in the brig it seems to the point that when a SL gets arrested (Lin Chang) it gets even worse.

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Brett Tedrow/Swagile : Lin Chang is to be arrested for disorderly conduct and their attachments confiscated.

Reason this happens is because the RO denies the SL a barrel charger since the RO says the smartgunners need them the most but the thing is, Chang had already been given their barrel charger at this point and had moved out, I don't really see what disrespect was done either, nothing like "Fuck you Req" or "Fuck someone in particular". Also there is this.

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[10:55:36]SAY: Brett Tedrow/Swagile : BC for SL is allowed, only PFC's and PVT's get no attachments till a bag full of AP is handed in.

The reason they were really arrested was because since they had been denied a barrel charger and were asking if one could be ordered they were holding up the line, so a CT gave the SL a barrel charger and Chang left. That is when the arrest order goes out.

Now just to be clear Disorderly conduct is "Directly and intentionally disrupting primary operations of the ship. Fighting in the RO line, disrupting the briefing, or inciting rioting/mutiny" keep this in mind for later.

So before Chang is arrested their smartgunner (Kit Clover) is arrested for having an SMG out in the Req line while waiting to get a holster for said gun, an MP (Ethan Cooper) does so and Clover ends up getting put in the brig along with some other marine who disrupted Clover's arrest.

So with all of this happening on top of a few other arrests going on around the place marines are about ready to start rioting and mutining. Which is when this happens.

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SGT Derek Foster (follow)  [Alpha (Spc)] asks, "Any one what to mutiny?"
Swagile/(Brett Tedrow) has made Command Announcement: Command Announcement - Attention, Alpha Squad's Derek Foster, Spec, has told his squad to mutiny. Red Alert initiated. - Brett Tedrow (Commander)

And everything starts kicking off and the ship is put into Red Alert, Foster gets arrested and this is said.

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[11:04:55]SAY: Brett Tedrow/Swagile : He is to be detained; I will announce his execution when he is in brig.

So MPs see this, blab about it and marines hear it and of course are like "Fuckin' command staff is executing people!". Now to bring me back to a different point I made earlier, Disorderly conduct, you can check yourself max sentence for 30 minutes in the brig. The Mutiny law is I quote "To attempt or succeed at overpowering or overthrowing a commanding officer" and at this point there had been NO full on mutiny just some alpha citing one and for mutiny max sentence is death minimum is perma. For now I'll cut Foster's story here and do a jump to someone else.

With all this going on Chaz decides this is the best course of action.

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Josen 'Flex' Keelin/Chaznoodles : Attention, one of the other SLs has been arrested, so I refuse to drop without a full squad command structure in place.

And during the next few minutes he talks with Command about how marines are ready to mutiny and they need to sort their shit out before the marines do go full Mutiny. Command doesn't sort their shit out.
So the mutiny ahelp is sent in.

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ADMIN: HELP: Chaznoodles/(Josen 'Flex' Keelin): The CO appears to have gone fully mad as far as I'm aware, and has had numerous people arrested and is attempting to have someone executed. Permission to organise a (hopefully) nonviolent mutiny?

He gets the amount of people needed and specifies a good lot to be fair to him that it is,

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SAY: Josen 'Flex' Keelin/Chaznoodles : Due to this, I'm organising a nonviolent change of command.

He says so information to the CO.

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SAY: Josen 'Flex' Keelin/Chaznoodles : On behalf of all the marines, I ask you to step aside and hand command to the XO.
SAY: Josen 'Flex' Keelin/Chaznoodles : Otherwise, we will be nonviolently detaining you and passing the command ourselves.
SAY: Josen 'Flex' Keelin/Chaznoodles : This is the one and only time I will ask.
SAY: Josen 'Flex' Keelin/Chaznoodles : What is your response?
SAY: Josen 'Flex' Keelin/Chaznoodles : We will not be killing anyone.
SAY: Josen 'Flex' Keelin/Chaznoodles : This will be entirely nonviolent.

After a bit of time the marines form up at South CIC ready to go in, the blast doors are down so since command refuses to open them they resort to blowing them down with C4 and once the doors are opened this happens.

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ATTACK: Brett Tedrow (swagile) shot Josen 'Flex' Keelin (chaznoodles) with a the smartgun bullet

Now imagine a lot more attack logs of people getting killed but I'll spare the space since this report is becoming long enough already.

One more thing to add during that WHOLE ROUND only Delta deployed. Round ended with the Aliens boarding and killing everyone.

This is basically the end of the report since the main reason as Chaz states is Lethal Force rule. However, to be fair to the command staff if someone is c4ing into where you're held up you can't exactly be sure if they're intentions are the best after that even if beforehand they were saying to stand down peacefully. One problem I am seeing is the whole Disorderly Conduct deal but I digress, it's up to Feweh or someone to make the final call on this I was just told to get the story.
I'll probably add more logs to this and tidy it up but as I'm typing this out I got 6 tabs of logs open so have patience.

EXTRA LOGS: Provided by SLC

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[11:07:19]ADMIN: HELP: Swagile/(Brett Tedrow): Stan Philby, MP, is breaking Marine Law by insulting a superior (myself), and now inciting a mutiny by telling others I am executing someone for insulting them, when I am not. Permission to execute?

[11:04:55]SAY: Brett Tedrow/Swagile : He is to be detained; I will announce his execution when he is in brig.

As you can see here from an ahelp sent in and the other IC message by the times seems a bit odd don'tcha say?

PS. I was told I had 2 hours to get all this info fuck you Feweh.

[Swagile]

Id like to attest that, as per my story, I only opened fire due to the fact that I told non-mutineers to go back into their preps; a sort of Marshal Law, you could say, so that mutineers aren't shooting each other and other, innocent marines aren't shooting at mutineers and are then confused as mutineers themselves. I tried to limit casualties and only opened fire due to the fact that CIC was broken into after I told them "I am not relieving my command" essentially.

[Feweh]

So a couple of issues here.

1. Yelling MUTINY (even if joking), is pretty good grounds for execution.
2. Blowing into the CIC with explosives is a pretty good reason to be shot at, that's a declaration of hostile intent.
3. Swagile did nothing to really reduce the threat of a potential mutiny.
4. Marines went full retard basically because they didn't get what they wanted so they pushed for a mutiny. The CO making special stipulations or conditions is not grounds to start a mutiny, even mutinying because the Commander executed someone for "attempting to start" a mutiny is extremely silly.


So what I'm seeing here is the usual Marine issue of them not getting what they wanted and were denied attachments.

Marines specifically joked and potentially started a mutiny simply because they didn't like the fact that they needed to hand in AP Mags for attachments. (CO has all the power to restrict attachments)
MPs over-reacting and arresting people for minor things. (Not related to Swagile so much)
Swagile executed someone for joking/screaming about mutiny over the radio (Completely valid, could of done it more discreet however)
Marines then used this as an excuse to full mutiny, blew into the CIC with explosives and then complained when they were shot with lethals. (Once again valid and using explosives clearly signifies lethal threat)


Now in conclusion, Swagile didn't technically do anything wrong at all.
ANY CO has the right to set conditions to attachments and deployment standards. The person executed was screaming mutiny over the radio, which is not something you joke about at all. Marines then blew into the CIC with explosives which using any common sense people would take as hostility.


Following our rules and guidelines... Swagile technically broke no rules as CO or even in-game.
This report is based on two things;

1. Was the execution valid? Yes, the marine in question was yelling MUTINY over the radio.
&
2. Was it acceptable for Swagile/Command Staff to gun down the mutineers breaking into the CIC? Yes, blowing into the CIC with explosives is declaring lethal intent.

What Swagile does need to improve however is avoiding situations like this in the future. COs need to understand that they cannot order certain things as it'll cause round start problems and issues.
Marines themselves pushed for Mutiny because they were ordered to trade in AP Mags for attachments, they then screamed and joked about starting a mutiny, were rightfully executed for it and then complained and furthered the mutiny afterwards blaming Swagile for it.

But at the same time, the players themselves need to use common sense and not be ridiculous. Not getting attachments is not a valid reason to mutiny and riot. Starting a mutiny because a potential mutineer was executed is also just as fucking stupid itself.

We recently discussed this in a staff meeting and hopefully now they'll be a stronger guideline for mutinies and COs regarding battlefield executions to stop this from happening in the future.
However, this report and incident was before such thing was discussed and is judged completely under the prior rules/guidelines.

[driecg36]

Technically, swagile broke no rules. If the marines had just walked into the bridge (which was obviously impossible because of the lockdown) and swagile had gunned them down, THAT wouldve been a problem. However, as feweh stated, the use of explosives makes lethal force a reasonable option. Wordlessly gunning down marines who have their weapons unholstered is bad RP IMO, but so is screaming "MUTINY FUCK CO COMDOMS REEEEEE" in gencomms (not saying chaz in question was doing that, but the people that got executed were). However, we can't really punish "bad" RP since it's so subjective.

Though I would personally heavily criticize swagile's actions (mostly how eager he was to murderbone marines), he in no way broke the rules or needs to be removed from the whitelist.

[Rahlzel]

I was asked to chime in here as a neutral observer since I don't know Chaz or Swagile that much (and I tend to stay out of reports).

I'm able to make an assessment from only reading Chaz's first post.

In short, Swagile did nothing wrong in my eyes.

In long, if I'm a Commander of a spaceship on a potentially hostile planet after getting a distress beacon, and suddenly there's a mutiny on my hands that started because some knucklehead didn't get his attachment, you bet your ass I'm thinking that I'm the only sane person on the ship and I'm going to protect it and the mission with my life, even if it means killing marines.

Peaceful resolutions are preferred and possible, but that doesn't mean the CO has to go quietly. It was your fault that you waltzed into CIC and expected a peaceful resolution after the CO said he wasn't lifting the shutters, and after you used explosives to bring them down. I would've blown you away, too, along with all of your followers.

Have some dialogue before putting yourself in harms way next time. Tell the CO that you're willing to do it peacefully. If he tells you to go to hell, then you know you shouldn't walk into CIC with your gun holstered.

[slc97]

I think the only thing really being missed here and that was a big deal is the line where Swagile tells the MPs to execute a prisoner who was brigged for disorderly conduct, that being Derek Foster. Once a person is brigged, you must follow proper execution procedures because it is not a situation where you are incapable of doing so.

That being said, the old way we enforced battlefield execution was vague and never properly hammered down which opened the door for abuse of battlefield execution to the point where most people probably didn't realize that this was wrong. So, since everything was properly hammered out in the meeting as Feweh said, this should be left alone, but now that there is awareness on how abuse of battlefield executions is to be handled, expect swift and harsh punishments for abuse of this tool in the future.

[blyatcomrade]

I was one of the people who joined with the mutiny and what rahlzel has said is basically what the marines were saying, it was almost certain the CO was going to shoot us given that he ordered the MP's to execute anyone in the hallways(this I believe should be investigated).

Might I add that intentionally causing issues as RO or command staff is a pretty serious issue at this point on the server, it almost always ruins rounds and severely pisses off marines. Something needs to be done to prevent these insane requirements for attachments as the only person its "fun" for is the RO and CO until a mutiny is started and a round is ruined.

[Rahlzel]

I think the only thing really being missed here and that was a big deal is the line where Swagile tells the MPs to execute a prisoner who was brigged for disorderly conduct, that being Derek Foster. Once a person is brigged, you must follow proper execution procedures because it is not a situation where you are incapable of doing so.

True. I'd agree with this. I wouldn't ask the MPs to execute a person that's already a prisoner, even if their crime was murder. A proper execution procedure should be done if the person to be executed is already detained.

[slc97]

Might I add that intentionally causing issues as RO or command staff is a pretty serious issue at this point on the server, it almost always ruins rounds and severely pisses off marines. Something needs to be done to prevent these insane requirements for attachments as the only person its "fun" for is the RO and CO until a mutiny is started and a round is ruined.

I'm gonna go ahead and be a little blunt here. Don't be a little bitch about your attachments, and you're round won't be ruined. Marines ruin their own rounds when they get all upset about no attachments and it's absolute entitled bullshit that isn't gonna be put up.

[blyatcomrade]

You can say that all you want but CO's and RO restrict attachments to directly antagonise marines and when it happens every round it is annoying and no amount of saying stop being a little bitch isn't going to fix it, that being said this isn't really the place for this discussion.

I would like to point out that 85 % of players on the server do play marine and do get royally pissed off when people refuse attachments and just ignoring them and telling them to stop whining and being entitled is a bit short sighted considering they are your players and they came here to enjoy the game.

[Feweh]

You can say that all you want but CO's and RO restrict attachments to directly antagonise marines and when it happens every round it is annoying and no amount of saying stop being a little bitch isn't going to fix it, that being said this isn't really the place for this discussion.

I would like to point out that 85 % of players on the server do play marine and do get royally pissed off when people refuse attachments and just ignoring them and telling them to stop whining and being entitled is a bit short sighted considering they are your players and they came here to enjoy the game.

You're part of the problem if you have this belief.

[Blade2000Br]

Ok, I will put my input here since I was the RO of this specific round and followed swagile's orders.

As Kavlo pointed out, I restringed the BC for smartgunners as an IC Motif. My character thinks this attachment is useful more in the hands of proper trained soldiers with heavy weaponry.

Also, IC, my character is not someone that likes to hand out attachments freely, since he thinks it could be dangerous in a way. I just abide to this.

Now in the round itself:
The marines were already trying to mutiny since start, because I got some angry comments in my lines, some disrespect from several privates about "Muh attachments."

The point of breakdown was on the SL hotshot that refused to move because she wanted a BC, again my character won't allow it, and went fully retarded, making the lines longer because she didn't wanted to leave.

Then all shit happened.

To be honest, for me, this mutiny was a pointless action, they were rioting for god dam attachments, even though 90% will die before they will be able to use it. I even got several threats in my face and on comms that they wanted to "burn the RO" or something like that.

Any questions about what happened in the line can be made. I will be happy to answer.

[Chaznoodles]

The mutiny was not over attachments, which this seems to have devolved into. It was organised by me because there were repeated shouts, including one from an MP, that the CO was executing people for joking about a mutiny previously. The attachments did not factor into my reasons for holding a mutiny, which is evident within the logs posted by Kavlo.

The main issue, which appears to have now been dealt with, was the supposed breaking of rule one. However, in discussion in this thread, the actions of the CO in executing people already brigged without following proper procedure has been highlighted.

[driecg36]

The mutiny was not over attachments, which this seems to have devolved into. It was organised by me because there were repeated shouts, including one from an MP, that the CO was executing people for joking about a mutiny previously. The attachments did not factor into my reasons for holding a mutiny, which is evident within the logs posted by Kavlo.

The main issue, which appears to have now been dealt with, was the supposed breaking of rule one. However, in discussion in this thread, the actions of the CO in executing people already brigged without following proper procedure has been highlighted.

Your mutiny was perfectly valid (even admirable, considering it was non-violent on your end), so none of this is being directed at you.

Most of the criticism here is aimed at marines who yell "MUTEENNEEEE" in gencomms, then proceed to start shit with MPs, get arrested, and then keep yelling in gencomms, only inciting more chaos.

The issues stemmed from marines going apeshit over no attachments (which is absolutely ridiculous of course), getting arrested over their stupidity, then executed for said stupidity. Even if I absolutely despise the attitude of "if I RP I won't win, so I have to gun everyone down wordlessly" which was somewhat employed by Swagile, and things could've been handled in a much more enjoyable way for both parties, he still hasn't broken any rules.

[slc97]

So it looks like this report needs to serve more as a warning to everyone than anything else.

Marines: if you do stupid shit, like shout mutiny, and the commander finds you after you've done that, there's no problem with him executing you, you're a threat to the mission, and don't shout mutiny over stupid shit like attachments.

Commanders: if you abuse battlefield executions, we won't punish everyone by taking away executions, we'll punish you by removing your whitelist. You cannot battlefield execute someone who is properly brigged, at that point, they are in MP custody and are protected by marine law procedures. You also must follow procedure for battlefield executions which means you must announce the person executed and why.

[Feweh]

Resolved