Report against Solidfury7

[Westhybrid]

Your Byond Key: WestHybrid

Your Character Name: Darius Ico

Accused Byond Key(if known): Solidfury7

Character Name: William(?) Crimson

Approximate time and date of the incident (Central US Time for fastest results): Between 9:40 and 10:00am

What rule(s) were broken: Rule One, Rule Six, Rule Nine.

Description of the incident: I'm playing as CMP, SolidFury is playing as the Commander. Midway into the round, Crimson joins, promptly declares he is going to the planet to build the FOB, and leaves the XO in charge. While there, he takes a large quantity of Charlie's engineering supplies and makes use of them, while also disciplining Charlie for "neglect of duty." He gets into an argument with Keelin, played by Chaznoodles. Keelin is not the easiest marine to work with, and is a little volatile, and as such, got into beef with Crimson. Crimson then orders the MP's to arrest Keelin and an additional Lance Corporal. I go down there while the other MP's are busy dealing with some survivors.

I get there, the Commander points Keelin out, and I take him back up to the brig. The Commander orders me to brig Keelin for a certain amount of time on certain charges. I inform them I only will be brigging Keelin on Insubordination and Disrespecting a Superior Officer, for the minimum time. I decide upon this, based on Keelin's statement and the statements of other marines, that Keelin never actually neglected his duties, which the CO wanted him written up on. The Commander then proceeds to give me shit about it for the rest of the round.

Fastforward to the end of the round, essentially, and the Commander is still up in arms about me not brigging Keelin. Minutes before the round and operation ends, he orders me under arrest based on how I didn't arrest Keelin for a "stolen" command headset; It wasn't stolen, it was given out by the XO because there was no Squad Leader for Charlie at the time. There was no need to arrest him.

I walk into the brig to find Commander Crimson and some other marine goons who tell me I'm being demoted and arrested. The round, then ends. I told him he doesn't have the authority to do this, he needs to get High Command on the line. I told him off, saying "deal with me." He then removes the pistol from his belt and shoots me. He does this on the grounds that it is a red alert on the ship. It's a red alert, because there was a single vent worm that dipped off, and we killed it. I had told them to remove the red alert ages ago before I was shot.

When ahelped, a Mentor answered back that it was a justified execution. It was also End Round Grief, but hey, fuck me, I guess.

Evidence (screenshots, logs, etc): Check the logs, they've since gone missing from my screen. But they're there.

How you would punish the accused: Removal from the Commander Whitelist.

[Feweh]

Sounds like a whole lot of IC issues to be honest.

Battlefield execution is iffy, but at that point its less grief and more of an RP/IC build up to that event as you said yourself.

He probably should of battlefield executed Chaz as it sounds like he was disobeying CO orders planetside.

[Challenger]

Character witness here. Solidfury is normally a pretty solid roleplayer as an SL (eg "Charlie Breakfast") and a CO (eg "Andromeda protocol") and I can attest that they're very consistent in trying to keep up a realistic level of roleplay at all times that tries to get others engaged. However:

He is very hamfisted with law enforcement as a CO and constantly tries to get them to do what he wants in mildly griefy tactics. For example, if he doesn't like an MP who's arresting people for whatever reason, he'll throw out various orders and try to get the other MPs to arrest the MP on insubordination, eg. after I arrested a prisoner, he's ordered me to "stay off MP comms unless it's an emergency" while I was debating the prisoner's sentence, and then after that ordered the other MPs to arrest me for continuing to speak on them. After I questioned him roundend about it, he says that he likes to use these kinds of tactics to cause chaos in the brig with MPs/CMPs he doesn't like, and I forget who he named specifically when saying this, but it was definitely three people indicating that this is repeated behaviour.

[Westhybrid]

Sounds like a whole lot of IC issues to be honest.

Battlefield execution is iffy, but at that point its less grief and more of an RP/IC build up to that event as you said yourself.

He probably should of battlefield executed Chaz as it sounds like he was disobeying CO orders planetside.

That's some garbage RP. And End of Round Grief, if we're talking the exact specifics of the rule. He pretty much abused every instance he could so he could shoot me in a poorly escalated shitshow, and showed no ability to acknowledge where marine law and roleplay guidelines were actually relevant. He's an unfit CO.

[Feweh]

I wouldn't say unfit for CO due to one disagreement between two players makes the unworthy of leading or being CO.

[driecg36]

Solidfury executing Westhybrid:

► Show Spoiler

[11:45:53]GAME: Antagonists at round end were...
[11:46:46]ATTACK: William 'Jester' Crimson (solidfury7) shot Darius Ico (westhybrid) with a the high-impact revolver bullet
[11:46:48]ATTACK: William 'Jester' Crimson (solidfury7) shot Darius Ico (westhybrid) with a the high-impact revolver bullet

This was indeed EORG, and he should receive a ban for that at the very least.

I will refrain from posting further investigation until solidfury answers on this post.

Most of these issues seem IC like Feweh said, but the CO should not have conscripted marines to arrest the CMP for him. Standard marines are not allowed to perform arrests within our rules, but from what I see solidfury shouldn't be removed from CO, especially since he is usually a solid player.

[Feweh]

Unless Solid can justify the EORG, he will indeed receive a ban for it.
RP/Attacks may continue past round end, however there must be RP for it.

[Chaznoodles]

Keelin here.

The specs were all put in charge of their squads due to zero SLs being present. We were all given command headset keys by the XO, and dropped planetside. The CO arrives, instantly drops his responsibilities to the XO, and comes planetside. A smartgunner, nickname Alfredo, is talking down a pair of survivors in the Armory, to get them to come with us nicely. It's a good roleplay situation. The CO runs in and promptly flashbangs both survivors before cuffing them and running off. He steals resources from my engineers and starts building, all the while complanining that my engineers aren't building - because he's nicked their materials. I bring this up to him repeated times, telling him to not usurp the authority of folk in charge of squads because it defeats the point of it. As is custom, I sprinkle it with choice insults. He sends down the CMP to get me under a bunch of charges he's whipped out the hat. The CMP and I discuss the situation and I eventually agree to accompany him to the Brig. I do so uncuffed, and am trusted to do so. We sit and chat in the Brig, with both of the survivors the CO flashbanged in cells, before the CMP lets me go. The CO is screaming for my headset to be taken off me, which the CMP doesn't do as I've not done anything with it. Later, the CO tries to accuse me of stealing the headset and get me arrested again, whereas everyone knew that the keys were given to us by the XO.

I head back planetside, and switch the MP channel on my headset on. I instantly hear the CO shouting at the CMP for not following his arrest orders. The CO continues to be extremely aggressive towards the CMP, while the CMP calmly and clearly continues with his job. I continue with being a marine. Eventually, the round ends, I hear that the CMP got executed after the round end.

The CMP treated everyone who he was involved with in a calm and polite manner, never once breaking marine law. He went through the proper channels to complain about the CO ICly, and got shot for it. The CO acted like a royal ass throughout the entire round, breaking numerous rules and causing issues with players needlessly.

1. The CO may have committed EORG by killing the CMP past round-end, presumably in what I can only guess was a final "fuck you" to the CMP.
2. Metagrudge:

After I questioned him roundend about it, he says that he likes to use these kinds of tactics to cause chaos in the brig with MPs/CMPs he doesn't like, and I forget who he named specifically when saying this, but it was definitely three people indicating that this is repeated behaviour.

3. Rulebreaking, especially #9:

Use the Chain of Command. You are expected to delegate and not interfere. You may never perform surgery, and only when absolutely necessary due to missing/unavailable subordinates can you fill in for the RO, set up the engine, and perform other jobs that are needed by the crew.

[driecg36]

There was also RP behind it, but I thought simply generating combat logs was worthy for an EORG ban, RP or no?

RP in question:

Line 72705: [11:46:03]SAY: Darius Ico/WestHybrid : You have zero authority to arrest me.
Line 72715: [11:46:05]SAY: William 'Jester' Crimson/SolidFury7 : You will be demoted, and detained
Line 72729: [11:46:09]SAY: Darius Ico/WestHybrid : No, no I won't.
Line 72746: [11:46:14]SAY: Darius Ico/WestHybrid : Call High Command, get them on the phone.
Line 72774: [11:46:24]SAY: William 'Jester' Crimson/SolidFury7 : This is a red alert.
Line 72802: [11:46:33]SAY: William 'Jester' Crimson/SolidFury7 : You will submit or you will be dealt with.
Line 72827: [11:46:39]SAY: Darius Ico/WestHybrid : Then deal with me, Commander.
Line 72839: [11:46:43]SAY: Darius Ico/WestHybrid : Deal. With. Me.
[11:46:46]ATTACK: William 'Jester' Crimson (solidfury7) shot Darius Ico (westhybrid) with a the high-impact revolver bullet
[11:46:48]ATTACK: William 'Jester' Crimson (solidfury7) shot Darius Ico (westhybrid) with a the high-impact revolver bullet
Line 72904: [11:47:00]SAY: William 'Jester' Crimson/SolidFury7 : The CMP was executed

[Westhybrid]

If you look through the logs, you'll see that Solidfury engaged in improper escalation, end of round grief, and just a complete disregard for roleplay guidelines. Being a CO, it's in both the rules and requirements that they ought to give those guidelines more thought, care, and attention. He did none of those things. Given his actions, it's unlikely he's read marine law in the slightest. And he used his privileges that being a CO provides to murderbone me.

Even if you do deem it an in-character event, in situations where the reported player is the Commander, that shit is important. They're a heavy-roleplaying role. And if they're doing a poor job of it, engaging in pissy behavior and finding excuses to kill people, then that needs to be looked at beyond more than a slap on the wrist.

[driecg36]

If you look through the logs, you'll see that Solidfury engaged in improper escalation, end of round grief, and just a complete disregard for roleplay guidelines. Being a CO, it's in both the rules and requirements that they ought to give those guidelines more thought, care, and attention. He did none of those things. Given his actions, it's unlikely he's read marine law in the slightest. And he used his privileges that being a CO provides to murderbone me.

Even if you do deem it an in-character event, in situations where the reported player is the Commander, that shit is important. They're a heavy-roleplaying role. And if they're doing a poor job of it, engaging in pissy behavior and finding excuses to kill people, then that needs to be looked at beyond more than a slap on the wrist.

CO executions are allowed to be done without warning (in fact they are supposed to). However, I don't think there was quite enough reason to do it here, especially since he presumably did not contact MP's to arrest you first, which would've been the appropriate move.

People have to remember that MP's do not necessarily need to obey command orders unless not obeying them would break marine law. I quote:

" They operate outside the authority of the command when enforcing the Law. The Chief MP has the final say on law enforcement within his operational area, unless overseen by higher ranking members of the Provost Marshal. "

[Westhybrid]

CO executions are allowed to be done without warning (in fact they are supposed to). However, I don't think there was quite enough reason to do it here, especially since he presumably did not contact MP's to arrest you first, which would've been the appropriate move.

People have to remember that MP's do not necessarily need to obey command orders unless not obeying them would break marine law. I quote:

" They operate outside the authority of the command when enforcing the Law. The Chief MP has the final say on law enforcement within his operational area, unless overseen by higher ranking members of the Provost Marshal. "

I'm not opposing the execution without warning, I'm protesting it's performance without reason.

It's also worth noting, that the Operation was FINISHED when he killed me, and I posed zero threat. The Red Alert was supposed to be waved long before that.

[driecg36]

I will fully investigate this in ~1-2 hours, and leave some time for witnesses to come forth, as well as seeing Solidfury's POV.

[Feweh]

Heres the thing.

COs aren't there to be everyone's friends and it's not a popularity contest. If someone wants to be play a super aggressive rub you the wrong way CO, thats fine.
People seem to have this odd belief that just because CO is white-listed they're supposed to be perfect, operate everything smoothly and not upset the status quo at all.

You both clearly got into an IC argument and disagreement, something that in real life would play off very similar if the CO wanted someone arrested and the CMP was refusing.
You bet your ass that you'd be annoyed and probably hold a grudge against said person.

I'm seeing a lot of Roleplay and proper build up to justify what unfolded in the end.
You were clearly expecting an execution at the end there, as your chat shows youre egging him on to "deal with you".

I'm not saying Solidfury was completely in the right, building and taking supplies from marines is silly... But it's hardly a "big deal".

[Westhybrid]

Heres the thing.

COs aren't there to be everyone's friends and it's not a popularity contest. If someone wants to be play a super aggressive rub you the wrong way CO, thats fine.
People seem to have this odd belief that just because CO is white-listed they're supposed to be perfect, operate everything smoothly and not upset the status quo at all.

You both clearly got into an IC argument and disagreement, something that in real life would play off very similar if the CO wanted someone arrested and the CMP was refusing.
You bet your ass that you'd be annoyed and probably hold a grudge against said person.

I'm seeing a lot of Roleplay and proper build up to justify what unfolded in the end.
You were clearly expecting an execution at the end there, as your chat shows youre egging him on to "deal with you".

I'm not saying Solidfury was completely in the right, building and taking supplies from marines is silly... But it's hardly a "big deal".

You're making assumptions about what I was thinking, what I was doing, and what actually happened.

I know the Commander isn't supposed to be a utopian-grade God. I can get along fine with Carson. Or even most Commanders that walk that line.

It was an IC disagreement, yes, but I've had similar arguments with similar CO's, and never once have they resulted to refusing to turn off the red alert as an excuse to shoot me.

Truth be told, there was not a lot of roleplay. I saw him once, we talked less than a couple dozen lines, and he took that opportunity to grudge and wait and plot until he could blow my brains out at the end of the round. That's not a good CO. That's not a CO that benefits the round or the standard of Roleplay. That's not fun to be on either side of. That's some shit we would've cracked down on hard half a year ago and it baffles me that you could be lax about that.

I'm not going to cause a ruckus if he doesn't get removed from the whitelist, but let's not trivialize people breaking the rules your server has in place. Otherwise, what's the point in following them if you're just gonna give him a pat on the back and let him be on his merry way.

[solidfury7]

Alright, I'm going to clarify some things.



Regarding the EORG situation. I will concede that I executed the chap after the round, simply as I thought executions were immune from this (End of round grief and rules intended combined). However, this was not some simple end of the round grief to let off some steam. This is something I had been planning for quite sometime. Openly voicing my displeasure against him over radio waves, in the CIC, even calling a meeting together to remove him from his post for neglect of duty (As I felt that he was failing to uphold marine law and outright undermining my authority) I had a MP present for the vote (yet he chose to abstain, along with two other SOs) however the vote was still the majority in favour of removing him (This is all during a red alert)

So, I went to the MPs, spoke to them about removing the CMP from duty, they refused to be involved, not choosing either side and walked off. Eventually the CMP walked in with a shotgun and walks to the entrance to the armory, where we confront him. I tell him he's being relieved of command and he's to submit to arrest or be dealt with, he simply replies "Deal with me, Deal.With.Me." all with a shotgun in his hand, in the armory. (The marine goon I had with me is no longer present, he locked himself outside) so it was myself and two SOs (with no weapons other than the sidearms we start with)

So, deeming him a security risk and the fact that I had no MPs to detain him with, during a red alert, while he was stood armed, in an armory against unarmed officers (or lightly armed) I simply shot him twice in the head.

For those who know me, you'll know I always put roleplay at the front of my motivations. For some of you to say its EORG simply because I shot him a few seconds later, during a roleplayed situation, the climax of a full shift of tension between two departments is simply clinging to the rules as they are wrote, not as intended. There was no malicious actions in me shooting him, nor was it an outright act of grief as a 'final fuck you',


--

Regarding -

1: The aggressive nature of my playstyle and the way I roleplayed Crimson (As you guys may know, I tend to be far more machiavellian as a CO than I am as a SL, which I think should come with the territory of sending whole squads to there deaths), I don't really thing that comes in to play. My character had his reasons to find you insuitable for your role, and hense, with each instance of failure to uphold order on your part, he became more hostile, especially once you began to threaten his command on the ship. (Especially in a red alert)

2: Metagrudging, eh, I don't even know who the CMP was before this round. So yeah, I think that one is kinda clutching at straws, there is nobody in this community who I actively dislike, over than the meme that is kit clover.

3: Rulebreaking - I arrived to the colony to oversee the construction of LZ1, this was supposed to be an extremely brief thing. However due to the lack of engineers and the refusal to send engineers to LZ1 to fortify it, I had to set up a basic defence before a bravo engineer took over after waking up late. Then I returned to the ship, once Flex was arrested.

@driecg36 - Only one marine was conscripted, simply because I knew the MPs were armed fully due to red alert and the CMP was actively working against me. and even then he was locked outside the brig. He was there to simply be imposing or at least help if a gunfight broke out.


I may have missed a point or two, I'm just having a chippy right now so if you want, just reitterate it again




Extra edit: I know the finale of the conclusion of our constant aggression was somewhat hasty and less than steller, I was going to ask for an admin to delay it so we could at least wrap it up a little more. However the connection ended after I announced your execution.

Extra extra edit: Also, being a dick IC is different from OOC boys, c'mon, no need to flame in OOC lads.

[Feweh]

You're making assumptions about what I was thinking, what I was doing, and what actually happened.

I know the Commander isn't supposed to be a utopian-grade God. I can get along fine with Carson. Or even most Commanders that walk that line.

It was an IC disagreement, yes, but I've had similar arguments with similar CO's, and never once have they resulted to refusing to turn off the red alert as an excuse to shoot me.

Truth be told, there was not a lot of roleplay. I saw him once, we talked less than a couple dozen lines, and he took that opportunity to grudge and wait and plot until he could blow my brains out at the end of the round. That's not a good CO. That's not a CO that benefits the round or the standard of Roleplay. That's not fun to be on either side of. That's some shit we would've cracked down on hard half a year ago and it baffles me that you could be lax about that.

I'm not going to cause a ruckus if he doesn't get removed from the whitelist, but let's not trivialize people breaking the rules your server has in place. Otherwise, what's the point in following them if you're just gonna give him a pat on the back and let him be on his merry way.

What rules do you believe he broke?

EROG is there for random attacking and killing.
Your Execution was a follow up to RP, something which we allow past round end and against hostile antags. (not that you were an antag)

[Westhybrid]

Alright, I'm going to clarify some things.



Regarding the EORG situation. I will concede that I executed the chap after the round, simply as I thought executions were immune from this (End of round grief and rules intended combined). However, this was not some simple end of the round grief to let off some steam. This is something I had been planning for quite sometime. Openly voicing my displeasure against him over radio waves, in the CIC, even calling a meeting together to remove him from his post for neglect of duty (As I felt that he was failing to uphold marine law and outright undermining my authority) I had a MP present for the vote (yet he chose to abstain, along with two other SOs) however the vote was still the majority in favour of removing him (This is all during a red alert)

So, I went to the MPs, spoke to them about removing the CMP from duty, they refused to be involved, not choosing either side and walked off. Eventually the CMP walked in with a shotgun and walks to the entrance to the armory, where we confront him. I tell him he's being relieved of command and he's to submit to arrest or be dealt with, he simply replies "Deal with me, Deal.With.Me." all with a shotgun in his hand, in the armory. (The marine goon I had with me is no longer present, he locked himself outside) so it was myself and two SOs (with no weapons other than the sidearms we start with)

So, deeming him a security risk and the fact that I had no MPs to detain him with, during a red alert, while he was stood armed, in an armory against unarmed officers (or lightly armed) I simply shot him twice in the head.

For those who know me, you'll know I always put roleplay at the front of my motivations. For some of you to say its EORG simply because I shot him a few seconds later, during a roleplayed situation, the climax of a full shift of tension between two departments is simply clinging to the rules as they are wrote, not as intended. There was no malicious actions in me shooting him, nor was it an outright act of grief as a 'final fuck you',


--

Regarding -

1: The aggressive nature of my playstyle and the way I roleplayed Crimson (As you guys may know, I tend to be far more machiavellian as a CO than I am as a SL, which I think should come with the territory of sending whole squads to there deaths), I don't really thing that comes in to play. My character had his reasons to find you insuitable for your role, and hense, with each instance of failure to uphold order on your part, he became more hostile, especially once you began to threaten his command on the ship. (Especially in a red alert)

2: Metagrudging, eh, I don't even know who the CMP was before this round. So yeah, I think that one is kinda clutching at straws, there is nobody in this community who I actively dislike, over than the meme that is kit clover.

3: Rulebreaking - I arrived to the colony to oversee the construction of LZ1, this was supposed to be an extremely brief thing. However due to the lack of engineers and the refusal to send engineers to LZ1 to fortify it, I had to set up a basic defence before a bravo engineer took over after waking up late. Then I returned to the ship, once Flex was arrested.

@driecg36 - Only one marine was conscripted, simply because I knew the MPs were armed fully due to red alert and the CMP was actively working against me. and even then he was locked outside the brig. He was there to simply be imposing or at least help if a gunfight broke out.


I may have missed a point or two, I'm just having a chippy right now so if you want, just reitterate it again

I had a shotgun in my hands because I was disarming. We just finished finding the xeno and I told everyone to put their guns and ammunition away. Going off of that, NO, I didn't have a shotgun or any weapon in my hands when you shot me. I was unarmed.

[Tidomann]

Character witness and one of the mods that responded to the Ahelps.

There was a lawful procedure performed for a shift in command due to Incompetent Command faxed by the CMP.

I can also attest that every single MP refused to detain the CMP and thus the commander was not able to legally detain the CMP with Police help. There was a vote amongst command staff to detain the CMP for interfering. The CO approached the CMP told him what was going to happen, no MP backed up his arrest. The CMP told the CO to deal with him, get USMC High Command on the phone- it appeared to be good character interaction. I was in the process of faxing high command about the proceedings after I refused to take part in the arrest in order to provide more of a push to detaining the CO.

"This is MP Hardie, the CO is currently arresting the CMP and enacting marine law in order to cover.." I was then going to challenge the CO about the execution. however the round ended.

Just to add this- that the end of round happened very close to when the roleplay situation occurred.

Code: Select all

[11:45:43]SAY: William 'Jester' Crimson/SolidFury7 : Warrent Officer, you have been found
[11:45:53]GAME: Antagonists at round end were...
[11:45:59]SAY: William 'Jester' Crimson/SolidFury7 : To be neglecting your duty by a vote
[11:46:03]SAY: Darius Ico/WestHybrid : You have zero authority to arrest me.
[11:46:05]SAY: William 'Jester' Crimson/SolidFury7 : You will be demoted, and detained
[11:46:09]SAY: Darius Ico/WestHybrid : No, no I won't.
[11:46:14]SAY: Darius Ico/WestHybrid : Call High Command, get them on the phone.
[11:46:24]SAY: William 'Jester' Crimson/SolidFury7 : This is a red alert.
[11:46:33]SAY: William 'Jester' Crimson/SolidFury7 : You will submit or you will be dealt with.
[11:46:35]SAY: Darius Ico/WestHybrid : It was a red alert because there was an alien, that my people killed.
[11:46:39]SAY: Darius Ico/WestHybrid : Then deal with me, Commander.
[11:46:43]SAY: Darius Ico/WestHybrid : Deal. With. Me.

[solidfury7]

You're making assumptions about what I was thinking, what I was doing, and what actually happened.
It was an IC disagreement, yes, but I've had similar arguments with similar CO's, and never once have they resulted to refusing to turn off the red alert as an excuse to shoot me.

Let us be honest, that never happened. I can understand you may be a little frustrated but damn, you don't have to simply fabricate stuff. You do realise its 99% more safer for COs to simply arrest people and execute then, than to do a battlefield execution. Seriously, B-Es aint worth it most the time, as they do get placed under a lot of scrutiny, the only reason I shot you is, RP.

[Feweh]

Alright, settle down.

I'll come to a decision about this later.

[Westhybrid]

Let us be honest, that never happened. I can understand you may be a little frustrated but damn, you don't have to simply fabricate stuff. You do realise its 99% more safer for COs to simply arrest people and execute then, than to do a battlefield execution. Seriously, B-Es aint worth it most the time, as they do get placed under a lot of scrutiny, the only reason I shot you is, RP.

I asked you on multiple occasions to turn it off. And I would've loved to hear the part where you were leading up to shooting me over a dispute you had no jurisdiction over. Just because you have a verbal argument with me where we berate eachother a couple times doesn't give you the right to go ahead and murder me under the guise of a Commander Execution. I didn't break any goddamn laws, and as someone playing Commander, in the Commander specific rules, you have an obligation to the roleplay guidelines, which includes marine law. For example, acting like a rational human being, understanding the chain of command, which extends to knowing where you do and do not have power. You shooting me and storming my department was nothing I consented to. That wasn't roleplayed out for me.

And the most frustrating thing is, unless the standard for hiring Mentors is obscenely low, you knew what you were doing was wrong. You knew you had no right to lord orders over something the CMP has complete jurisdiction over and you shot me for it.

[driecg36]

I asked you on multiple occasions to turn it off. And I would've loved to hear the part where you were leading up to shooting me over a dispute you had no jurisdiction over. Just because you have a verbal argument with me where we berate eachother a couple times doesn't give you the right to go ahead and murder me under the guise of a Commander Execution. I didn't break any goddamn laws, and as someone playing Commander, in the Commander specific rules, you have an obligation to the roleplay guidelines, which includes marine law. For example, acting like a rational human being, understanding the chain of command, which extends to knowing where you do and do not have power. You shooting me and storming my department was nothing I consented to. That wasn't roleplayed out for me.

And the most frustrating thing is, unless the standard for hiring Mentors is obscenely low, you knew what you were doing was wrong. You knew you had no right to lord orders over something the CMP has complete jurisdiction over and you shot me for it.

Tone down the salt and accusations here. This will be handled fairly, I guarantee it. There is no need to be so hostile towards Solidfury. Do not bring IC conflicts into OOC. Thinking he did wrong ICly and reporting is fine, but this is still just a game, and you need to cool down a little bit.

I will post my findings shortly.

[driecg36]

The original arrest of Keelin:

[10:38:15]SAY: William 'Jester' Crimson/SolidFury7 : Do you have a problem, marine?
[10:38:17]SAY: Josen 'Flex' Keelin/Chaznoodles : CO's being a bit of a twat, really.
[10:38:26]SAY: Josen 'Flex' Keelin/Chaznoodles : Stop being a twat and go back to manning an armchair.
[10:38:33]SAY: William 'Jester' Crimson/SolidFury7 : Josen Flex Keelin is to be detained.
[10:38:39]SAY: Josen 'Flex' Keelin/Chaznoodles : It's not disrespect if it's true.
[10:39:59]SAY: Josen 'Flex' Keelin/Chaznoodles : You came down here on first deployment, ordered us around with no regards for the chain, and complained.
[10:40:08]SAY: Josen 'Flex' Keelin/Chaznoodles : And then flashbanged survivors who were being negotiated with to come safely.
[10:41:26]SAY: William 'Jester' Crimson/SolidFury7 : Stay clear of it trevor, Flex was supposed to guard it but he's too incompetent to understand what orders are

Keelin and Ico's talk:

[10:51:21]SAY: Darius Ico/WestHybrid : Keelin.
[10:51:31]SAY: Darius Ico/WestHybrid : You're under arrest for neglect of duty and insubordination.
[10:51:36]SAY: Darius Ico/WestHybrid : Commander's orders.
[10:51:40]SAY: Josen 'Flex' Keelin/Chaznoodles : I've carried out my duty perfectly, if you'd been listening.
[10:51:44]SAY: Darius Ico/WestHybrid : I haven't.
[10:51:58]SAY: Josen 'Flex' Keelin/Chaznoodles : The CO came down here, instantly started insulting the squad I was in command of, and constantly berated me in full hearing of the marines.
[10:52:15]SAY: Darius Ico/WestHybrid : I don't want to have to be here longer than I have to.
[10:52:24]SAY: Josen 'Flex' Keelin/Chaznoodles : The CO stepped out of line coming down here, fucking with our engineers and myself.
[10:52:31]SAY: Darius Ico/WestHybrid : I won't even put you in a cell. You can hang out on the shuttle for ten minutes and come right back.
[10:53:01]SAY: Darius Ico/WestHybrid : Insubordination, neglect of duty. Allegedly you have been getting in the way of the Commander's establishment of the FOB.
[10:53:14]SAY: Josen 'Flex' Keelin/Chaznoodles : The Commander has been acting like an engineer, stealing resources from our actual engineers.
[10:53:26]SAY: Darius Ico/WestHybrid : He's the Commander. That's technically within his right.
[10:53:34]SAY: Josen 'Flex' Keelin/Chaznoodles : He's also been complaining about us not working when we're doing the best we can, when he's stolen our resources.
[10:53:52]SAY: Josen 'Flex' Keelin/Chaznoodles : He also was publicly insulting me and lessening my authority.
[10:54:13]SAY: Josen 'Flex' Keelin/Chaznoodles : I didn't say he wasn't at any time.
[10:54:13]SAY: Darius Ico/WestHybrid : He's a shitty boss, granted, but that's how this works.
[10:54:46]SAY: Josen 'Flex' Keelin/Chaznoodles : Crimson, you usurped my authority, complained about my engineers when you'd stolen their resources and publicly insulted me, whilst I kept my squad working efficiently.
[10:55:28]SAY: Josen 'Flex' Keelin/Chaznoodles : Do you feel the need to execute every order a shitty CO gives you?
[10:55:41]SAY: Josen 'Flex' Keelin/Chaznoodles : You understand you are the representative of the law aboard the Almayer, and have the final say in it?
[10:55:28]SAY: Josen 'Flex' Keelin/Chaznoodles : Do you feel the need to execute every order a shitty CO gives you?
[10:55:41]SAY: Josen 'Flex' Keelin/Chaznoodles : You understand you are the representative of the law aboard the Almayer, and have the final say in it?
[10:57:47]SAY: Darius Ico/WestHybrid : Because you're disregarding your superior in active insubordination at this point. And no, dickless. I'm actually doing my part to get you back on the frontline.
[10:58:18]SAY: Darius Ico/WestHybrid : The insubordination part isn't false, Keelin.
[10:58:40]SAY: Darius Ico/WestHybrid : Fine. Disrespect of a superior officer.
[11:00:44]SAY: Josen 'Flex' Keelin/Chaznoodles : I'd like to submit a formal complaint about the CO's actions while we're here.

Conversation between Ico and Crimson

[11:00:27]SAY: Darius Ico/WestHybrid : Problem's solved, Commander. You can stop bothering me about it.
[11:00:39]SAY: William 'Jester' Crimson/SolidFury7 : What sentences did you issue?
[11:01:03]SAY: Darius Ico/WestHybrid : A light one. I can't conclude with any evidence that Keelin has actually neglected his duty. If anything, you inhibited his ability to work.
[11:01:21]SAY: William 'Jester' Crimson/SolidFury7 : So, Warrent Officer, you are failing to do your job?
[11:01:32]SAY: Darius Ico/WestHybrid : No, I'm not. And you're not going to take that tone with me, sir.
[11:01:38]SAY: William 'Jester' Crimson/SolidFury7 : There were multiple witnesses yet you fail to investigate.
[11:01:49]SAY: Darius Ico/WestHybrid : I can't legally arrest a man for a law he hasn't broken.
[11:04:03]SAY: William 'Jester' Crimson/SolidFury7 : CMP, if the prisoner leaves this vessel before his minimum sentences are carried out, you'll be deemed to be neglecting to uphold marine law.
[11:04:36]SAY: Darius Ico/WestHybrid : Not sure you're the authority on marine law, Commander, but your request will be considered.
[11:04:54]SAY: William 'Jester' Crimson/SolidFury7 : You will follow the law, WO, or your MPs will detain you.



[11:21:29]SAY: William 'Jester' Crimson/SolidFury7 : MPs didnt want to detain him, I had to force the incompetent cunts
[11:23:13]SAY: William 'Jester' Crimson/SolidFury7 : The warrent officer is a worm.
[11:29:16]SAY: William 'Jester' Crimson/SolidFury7 : Unable to control your department yet again, Ico?
[11:29:18]SAY: Darius Ico/WestHybrid : Anyone care to-
[11:29:34]SAY: Darius Ico/WestHybrid : Commander, none of my officers have flagged the XO.
[11:29:53]SAY: Darius Ico/WestHybrid : And you should know, I've relayed a report as well as numerous formal complaints of your conduct to High Command.
[11:30:10]SAY: Darius Ico/WestHybrid : Maybe my department should be the least of your worries.
[11:30:15]SAY: William 'Jester' Crimson/SolidFury7 : Your complaints are as lackluster as your skills.
[11:30:43]SAY: Darius Ico/WestHybrid : Childish behavior will not stop High Command from sending an inquiry, Commander. Good luck with your operation.
[11:31:20]SAY: William 'Jester' Crimson/SolidFury7 : The operation is already a success, despite your neglect of duty and unwillingness to maintain the law.
[11:31:32]SAY: Darius Ico/WestHybrid : I don't see any reason why I would need to discharge myself, Lieutenant.
[11:31:36]SAY: William 'Jester' Crimson/SolidFury7 : I weep for the MPs under your control.
[11:31:51]SAY: Darius Ico/WestHybrid : And Commander, I've accomplished my duties to the highest standard.
[11:32:27]SAY: Darius Ico/WestHybrid : As far as I'm concerned, you spent the majority of this operation playing tinker toy engineer and allowing a number of marines to go missing or dead.
[11:32:56]SAY: Darius Ico/WestHybrid : So I think it's best if you keep to your duties and I'll keep to mine, and when High Command comes to collect, the pieces can fall where they may.
[11:33:16]SAY: William 'Jester' Crimson/SolidFury7 : Justify your neglect of duty all you wish, CMP, it has been noticed.
[11:33:32]SAY: Darius Ico/WestHybrid : Feel free to point out where I neglected my duty, Commander.
[11:33:28]SAY: William 'Jester' Crimson/SolidFury7 : Further failing to maintain the law will result in you being discharged.
[11:33:59]SAY: William 'Jester' Crimson/SolidFury7 : You have or had a prisoner with stolen equipment.
[11:34:09]SAY: William 'Jester' Crimson/SolidFury7 : And failed to take it, that is prime fucking example CMP
[11:34:49]SAY: Darius Ico/WestHybrid : Keelin had no stolen property, and you would have verified that when I told you about it by asking the Lieutenant Commander.
[11:34:43]SAY: William 'Jester' Crimson/SolidFury7 : You are not above marine law.
[11:34:50]SAY: William 'Jester' Crimson/SolidFury7 : If you believe that Ico, you will be discharged.
[11:35:06]SAY: Darius Ico/WestHybrid : I don't believe myself to be above Marine Law, but you seem very intent on holding it over my head for some reason.

Jester planning to remove the WO:

► Show Spoiler

[11:35:21]SAY: William 'Jester' Crimson/SolidFury7 : However the WO is becoming increasingly hostile.
[11:35:33]SAY: William 'Jester' Crimson/SolidFury7 : We may be forced to remove him from duty.
[11:38:41]SAY: William 'Jester' Crimson/SolidFury7 : The WO will be removed from duty, XO.
[11:38:49]SAY: William 'Jester' Crimson/SolidFury7 : We will find something to charge him with.
[11:39:49]SAY: William 'Jester' Crimson/SolidFury7 : We will hold a vote on if we find the CMP to be neglecting his duty, if the majority agree he is, we will demote him and make Denis the acting CMP.
[11:41:18]SAY: William 'Jester' Crimson/SolidFury7 : I trust all your judgements here, however the fact the WO tried to pardon someone for crimes, without informing us.
[11:41:25]SAY: William 'Jester' Crimson/SolidFury7 : And allowing them possession of stolen goods.
[11:41:28]SAY: William 'Jester' Crimson/SolidFury7 : Concerns me deeply.
[11:43:24]SAY: William 'Jester' Crimson/SolidFury7 : Marine
[11:43:28]SAY: William 'Jester' Crimson/SolidFury7 : On me.
[11:44:19]SAY: William 'Jester' Crimson/SolidFury7 : We are detaining the CMP and demoting him
[11:44:34]SAY: William 'Jester' Crimson/SolidFury7 : Trenton, on us.
[11:44:42]SAY: William 'Jester' Crimson/SolidFury7 : We are detaining the CMP for neglect of duty.
[11:45:43]SAY: William 'Jester' Crimson/SolidFury7 : Warrent Officer, you have been found
[11:45:59]SAY: William 'Jester' Crimson/SolidFury7 : To be neglecting your duty by a vote
[11:46:05]SAY: William 'Jester' Crimson/SolidFury7 : You will be demoted, and detained

And then the field execution happened, the logs of which can be found above.

I am way too tired to give a tldr and a POV on this mess tonight, so I will put forward my point tomorrow.
For now, form your own opinion from the raw logs.

[Feweh]

Resolving this as an IC issue.

Your complaint is that the CO wasn't following his procedures, yet a huge no-no from yourself is right here and going against Marine Law.

10:52:31]SAY: Darius Ico/WestHybrid : I won't even put you in a cell. You can hang out on the shuttle for ten minutes and come right back.
[10:53:01]SAY: Darius Ico/WestHybrid : Insubordination, neglect of duty. Allegedly you have been getting in the way of the Commander's establishment of the FOB.

That in itself is going against Marine Law as you must brig the person for the crimes they commit.
Obviously Solid didn't see this, but he was right in his accusations in the end that you yourself were an actual issue and potentially could cause him problems in the future.

Provided with Solid further having an actual plan and discussion with others to remove you from CMP (justified or not) shows RP and no ill intent to cause grief.
Further-more, the EORG will not be considered grief as the execution was follow up RP.
Provided West himself egged on the CO to even execute him using IC means further engaging along the role-play that was being generated.


All of this is being deemed IC and both side themselves dealt with it the entire time through IC means.
There was no reason to further take it to OOC means afterwards honestly.


For clarifications, Chaz could of been battlefield executed himself planetside, the CO as West himself stated had all the right to be there and orders around any marines he wanted.

This was actually a decent RP set up turned bad due to saltiness at the end.