The Ruthlessness of Commander Cavalet

[Vampio Von Klaust]

Your Byond Key: Vampio Von Klaust

Your Character Name: Alex Marx

Accused Byond Key(if known):

Character Name: Charlton 'Stiffy' Cavalet

Approximate time and date of the incident (Central US Time for fastest results): 7:15pm November 18, 2017

What rule(s) were broken: Lethal Force

Description of the incident: I was playing as XO, as I love to do. Of course, this time around, I was playing honest. I told the Charlton, who was the Commander, what I thought on a matter. He usually did not like it, but that's what all power hungry do. Anyway, I had said against I was the execution of a marine, and told him both he and the CMP had to agree to stall the execution. This finally put him over the limit and made him lockdown the CIC, with me and a SO in it. He and the So began to say how the ship would be better off without me. Then, the Commander, without any warning, shot and killed me with his Mateba. This, as you might understand would get somebody's blood boiling. However, the story gets better.

The first thing I did was call an admin. During that conversation, I found out the Commander lied and said that I had attacked him. With the other SO backing him, there was nothing I could get to do to be revived. The funniest thing of it all was the fact that my gun was in my holster, with the safety on, along with the CO and SO being completely unharmed. If his lies had been found out in-game, I found not be as "salty". However, justice must be taken into the hands of the people from time to time. But back to the story.

The admin said there was nothing he could do about it since it was a "battlefield execution". However, after reading the rules for battlefield executions, I found out that that power can only be used on prisoners that have been captured, and who pose a threat to the mission. I was neither one of those. Due to that, I feel most offended that I was treated this way, like UPP or CLF scum.

Evidence (screenshots, logs, etc): I wish I could produce a photo, but I have the mentality that these things should not happen. As such, I have no screenshot software.

How you would punish the accused: I would wish that Mr. Cavalet would lose his status on the Commander whitelist. There is no better way to defeat an enemy than to not have the enemy

[Nicboone]

without commenting further, as I will leave that for admin and modstaff- please wait to make reports until after the round ends. This report was made during the current round in question.

[Vampio Von Klaust]

I had no idea of this dereliction of duty charge. What was it about? I am legitimately in the dark about the charges post to my name.

[PWNJimiPWN]

Ok but he also purposefully dropped an OB on all the marines in the FOB because he could... then he shot a LT that had nothing to do with it and blamed it on the LT... He pulled his Metaba out.. and shot him dead.. Reading the rules I would have to say that Stiffy has broken a pretty big one.. and you can probably expect alot of reports as people find out. Its not the first time Stiffy has gotten away with stuff.. I wasnt a marine that round but I saw everything from Dead chat.. Stiffy shouldn't be white listed.

[PWNJimiPWN]

He even said in LOOC to Keem that he had to have someone to blame for the OB and then before Keem could even respond Stiffy shot him dead multiple times.

[Vampio Von Klaust]

Ok but he also purposefully dropped an OB on all the marines in the FOB because he could... then he shot a LT that had nothing to do with it and blamed it on the LT... He pulled his Metaba out.. and shot him dead.. Reading the rules I would have to say that Stiffy has broken a pretty big one.. and you can probably expect alot of reports as people find out. Its not the first time Stiffy has gotten away with stuff.. I wasnt a marine that round but I saw everything from Dead chat.. Stiffy shouldn't be white listed.

I must agree with you. I've only been under him one other time, but come on... Carson is better than this. Carson may kill people, but he doesn't mean it. Cavalet kills people just because he can.

[Denied_Existence]

Every round I've been in with Cavalet has been hell for command staff and marines on the ground. The only time I've enjoyed the 'story' were when I've had no interaction with him aside from simple orders that don't affect me (As RO or doctors), and one LT round where a kind MP decided to hand out alcohol like crazy and I got roaring drunk IC and complained loudly while resisting arrest. Every one of these rounds has been a marine defeat.

I also was watching both BEs this round while ghosted, and neither BE was justified, both were done to maintain his character as a ruthless, incompetent CO who gives no fucks about the lives of others. Such characters can be interesting in books and movies. This isn't a book or a movie, it's a game with other people in it that want to have a good time too.

If Pictish (The player) wants to play as an incompetent or ruthless commander, he should do one or the other, not both; or there should be regular admin/command staff intervention which ends his current round just as he ended the round unfairly for two players this day (Through command authorization, W-Y PMC removal, or otherwise).

Edit: The original post claims Cavalet fired the OB. He didn't, but he knew who did, (The lying LT, Tony), and BE'd Keem as a scapegoat.

[Pictish20]

Right, the round is now over. Cavalet here. First thing that I would like to say is that most of these accusations are false. I never said the XO attacked me, that was someone else. I executed you because you had been subverting my command the entire operation, even going to the point of forming a panel with the CMP to cut me out of the position of authority I had on the brig as Commander. I know that the CMP sits above me in that regard, but I believe that you (the panel) authorized an execution with out consulting me. This whole panel is a dereliction of duty as well. It is not your place to pass judgement on marine law, but to oversee the operation of the vessel. Also, this panel felt awfully coup d'etat-esque. You had expressed opposition to my command previously, which leads Cavalet to believe that you were consorting with the CMP to wrongfully depose him. For the SO, the ship was on the brink of mutiny over the OB. I needed someone to blame to avoid the Marines storming the CIC and murdering all of us. Keem, the SO, just happened to be the unlucky person, as he was manning alpha's console, which was the OB that was fired (afterwords, he did send an ahelp approving of the BE as RP). As for the OB itself, I did not fire it. That was another SO, the same one who said the XO attacked me (I did not know who, I was writing an announcement at the time). I apologize if Cavalet decreases from other players' enjoyment of the game, but I don't think that I do anything wrong RP-wise. This is the future, and the USCMC is an entirely different beast from the USMC, much more ruthless. I would even go so far to say that you are more likely to find a Cavalet in Command than some of the more soft Commanders. Cavalet may be fairly cowardly, almost paranoid sometimes, but I do not kill people for the sake of it. So far, all of my BE's are as follows:
- A PO drew his pistol on me. He presented an immediate threat, and as such, was removed.
- An SO was issuing orders that were directly contradictory to my own, and refused to cease, and as such, was removed.
- The two above.
In all these, I believe I was more than justified. These executions are probably more justified than executions for disrespect or similar. In addition, marine law says you can't BE people who are prisoners, not that they have to be prisoners.

The round in question was also a marine major, by the way

I'd also like to note that Marx committed borderline ERP earlier, talking about something to do with incest, which I didn't really follow. I couldn't tell if he actually knew what incest was, so I let it pass.

[Vampio Von Klaust]

Right, the round is now over. Cavalet here. First thing that I would like to say is that most of these accusations are false. I never said the XO attacked me, that was someone else. I executed you because you had been subverting my command the entire operation, even going to the point of forming a panel with the CMP to cut me out of the position of authority I had on the brig as Commander. I know that the CMP sits above me in that regard, but I believe that you (the panel) authorized an execution with out consulting me. This whole panel is a dereliction of duty as well. It is not your place to pass judgement on marine law, but to oversee the operation of the vessel. Also, this panel felt awfully coup d'etat-esque. You had expressed opposition to my command previously, which leads Cavalet to believe that you were consorting with the CMP to wrongfully depose him. For the SO, the ship was on the brink of mutiny over the OB. I needed someone to blame to avoid the Marines storming the CIC and murdering all of us. Keem, the SO, just happened to be the unlucky person, as he was manning alpha's console, which was the OB that was fired (afterwords, he did send an ahelp approving of the BE as RP). As for the OB itself, I did not fire it. That was another SO, the same one who said the XO attacked me (I did not know who, I was writing an announcement at the time). I apologize if Cavalet decreases from other players' enjoyment of the game, but I don't think that I do anything wrong RP-wise. This is the future, and the USCMC is an entirely different beast from the USMC, much more ruthless. I would even go so far to say that you are more likely to find a Cavalet in Command than some of the more soft Commanders. Cavalet may be fairly cowardly, almost paranoid sometimes, but I do not kill people for the sake of it. So far, all of my BE's are as follows:
- A PO drew his pistol on me. He presented an immediate threat, and as such, was removed.
- An SO was issuing orders that were directly contradictory to my own, and refused to cease, and as such, was removed.
- The two above.
In all these, I believe I was more than justified. These executions are probably more justified than executions for disrespect or similar. In addition, marine law says you can't BE people who are prisoners, not that they have to be prisoners.

The round in question was also a marine major, by the way

I'd also like to note that Marx committed borderline ERP earlier, talking about something to do with incest, which I didn't really follow. I couldn't tell if he actually knew what incest was, so I let it pass.

I would have many things to say to Cavalet, but I am not Marx. First off, if the SO lied about me attacking you, then why did you go along with it? I mean, it is better to be honest and accept fate than to lie and deny it. And on another matter, Commander's need not make a scapegoat, which goes against the morals of the USCM. I've never once seen a Commander need to use such a petty tactic to control his troops. If your character was paranoid, he would have the So silenced quietly and not make a big deal of it, much like Joseph Stalin of the USSR or Adolph Hitler of Nazi Germany.

And on that "borderline ERP" claim, I was simply trying to ask the question (note this is the question I meant to bring up in dialogue) "If humans share 99.99998% of their DNA with each other, then do humans commit incest?". I will admit, the way I presented it was a bit... unethical. However, that was the question in it's whole form. I would be very pleased if somebody would give me their own personal opinion on the matter.

[Pictish20]

I didn't "go along with" the claim that you had attacked me. I admit, I never denied it, but in the announcement I made immediately after, I stated why you were executed, and never once said that you had attacked me. As for the SO, I did what I had to. Cavalet is not paranoid, he may act that way, but he is not, and in this case being silent really does make it senseless murder

I admit, bringing up the ERP was a bit of an ad hominem, and think that it would be good to leave it.

[PWNJimiPWN]

Right, the round is now over. Cavalet here. First thing that I would like to say is that most of these accusations are false. I never said the XO attacked me, that was someone else. I executed you because you had been subverting my command the entire operation, even going to the point of forming a panel with the CMP to cut me out of the position of authority I had on the brig as Commander. I know that the CMP sits above me in that regard, but I believe that you (the panel) authorized an execution with out consulting me. This whole panel is a dereliction of duty as well. It is not your place to pass judgement on marine law, but to oversee the operation of the vessel. Also, this panel felt awfully coup d'etat-esque. You had expressed opposition to my command previously, which leads Cavalet to believe that you were consorting with the CMP to wrongfully depose him. For the SO, the ship was on the brink of mutiny over the OB. I needed someone to blame to avoid the Marines storming the CIC and murdering all of us. Keem, the SO, just happened to be the unlucky person, as he was manning alpha's console, which was the OB that was fired (afterwords, he did send an ahelp approving of the BE as RP). As for the OB itself, I did not fire it. That was another SO, the same one who said the XO attacked me (I did not know who, I was writing an announcement at the time). I apologize if Cavalet decreases from other players' enjoyment of the game, but I don't think that I do anything wrong RP-wise. This is the future, and the USCMC is an entirely different beast from the USMC, much more ruthless. I would even go so far to say that you are more likely to find a Cavalet in Command than some of the more soft Commanders. Cavalet may be fairly cowardly, almost paranoid sometimes, but I do not kill people for the sake of it. So far, all of my BE's are as follows:
- A PO drew his pistol on me. He presented an immediate threat, and as such, was removed.
- An SO was issuing orders that were directly contradictory to my own, and refused to cease, and as such, was removed.
- The two above.
In all these, I believe I was more than justified. These executions are probably more justified than executions for disrespect or similar. In addition, marine law says you can't BE people who are prisoners, not that they have to be prisoners.

The round in question was also a marine major, by the way

I'd also like to note that Marx committed borderline ERP earlier, talking about something to do with incest, which I didn't really follow. I couldn't tell if he actually knew what incest was, so I let it pass.

You shot keem out of nowhere... you BRIG people like this.. it says in the application and talks about the power of BE.. its basically a last resort and only if its needed, you toss people in the brig, its what its there for. you shot men in cold blood with no guns drawn. These were not threats to you, to try and justify it is wrong, you then blamed keem for the OB when i came into viewing i saw your LOOC to keem and keem didnt even get to respond and you just shot him.. removing a player from the game.. without asking for his permission for furthering any type of RP. You do not have that right to ruin the game for someone like that. A commander cares about his men a bit more than that, your "character" would never exist outside of a movie or game and in these two instances he would exist to make a plot for the viewers.

But when you are role playing as a commander here you are doing just that, which means your character would have had to have undergone some pretty thorough tests which judging by how you have commanded since i first met you about a week and a half ago, I would say your character would never have passed these.

[Pictish20]

► Show Spoiler

You shot keem out of nowhere... you BRIG people like this.. it says in the application and talks about the power of BE.. its basically a last resort and only if its needed, you toss people in the brig, its what its there for. you shot men in cold blood with no guns drawn. These were not threats to you, to try and justify it is wrong, you then blamed keem for the OB when i came into viewing i saw your LOOC to keem and keem didnt even get to respond and you just shot him.. removing a player from the game.. without asking for his permission for furthering any type of RP. You do not have that right to ruin the game for someone like that. A commander cares about his men a bit more than that, your "character" would never exist outside of a movie or game and in these two instances he would exist to make a plot for the viewers.

But when you are role playing as a commander here you are doing just that, which means your character would have had to have undergone some pretty thorough tests which judging by how you have commanded since i first met you about a week and a half ago, I would say your character would never have passed these.

I think the point of contention here is the viability of Cavalet's character. You seem to think that a ruthless, maybe incompetent commander is impossible. I direct you to the military thought of:
- Napoleonic warfare
- Trech warfare
- Order no. 227
- Nazi general Walter Model
- The military doctrines of the Huns/Mongols
- The utterly massive number of these officers in literature (Clone Commander Vill, effectively everyone in WH 40k, etc.)
- etc.

All of these have an extreme disregard for losses, valuing victory over lives.

In Aliens, Lieutenant Gorman is incompetent. While not on the same level as Cavalet, it still demonstrates the lack of these "tests" for commanding officers. The Colonial Marines are much different from the militaries of today. They have to protect much larger areas, have more resources to expend, and have merciless enemies. This leads to a more "casualties are acceptable" mindset, even among civilians. W-Y has a massive amount of power within the UA, and there are other such entities in the same situation. Corruption is rampant, and they'd never stand for tests. Overall, I see the command staff of this universe similar to those of the Galactic Empire in Star Wars. They can be removed at a moment's notice, and replaced. Morals and a lack of ruthlessness don't serve one well. Cavalet might have just been appointed, but he's afraid of removal for failure, more than he values the lives of his Marines. As I have said earlier, the USCMC is a different beast than modern militaries, and Cavalet makes perfect sense in this military.

[PWNJimiPWN]

I think the pint of contention here is the viability of Cavalet's character. You seem to think that a ruthless, maybe incompetent commander is impossible. I direct you to the military thought of:
- Napoleonic warfare
- Trech warfare
- Order no. 227
- Nazi general Walter Model
- The military doctrines of the Huns/Mongols
- etc.

All of these have an extreme disregard for losses, valuing victory over lives.

In Aliens, Lieutenant Gorman is incompetent. While not on the same level as Cavalet, it still demonstrates the lack of these "tests" for commanding officers. The Colonial Marines are much different from the militaries of today. They have to protect much larger areas, have more resources to expend, and have merciless enemies. This leads to a more "casualties are acceptable" mindset, even among civilians. W-Y has a massive amount of power within the UA, and there are other such entities in the same situation. Corruption is rampant, and they'd never stand for tests. Overall, I see the command staff of this universe similar to those of the Galactic Empire in Star Wars. They can be removed at a moment's notice, and replaced. Morals and a lack of ruthlessness don't serve one well. Cavalet might have just been appointed, but he's afraid of removal for failure, more than he values the lives of his Marines. As I have said earlier, the USCMC is a different beast than modern militaries, and Cavalet makes perfect sense in this military.

But we are structured after the IRL American Marine Corps, not other countries or anything like that.

So you are saying that your character allows you to shoot people and ruin their gameplay without asking first? Because I have asked admins this before when i had just started and i was told a very solid no, you can not kill or use a marine in a manner that will lead to his death unless the marine has agreed to it, you can hash out the details in the LOOC though.

I meant your mental well being like, mental evaluations, tactical aptitude tests etc to show you are fit for command, but I mean all that aside, If you would stop doing the BE's your character would be more enjoyable RP wise, but with all these BE's and the cold blooded murders, you are ruining alot of other players rp who want to enjoy the game as well. You should try to make more use of the brig when possible, especially situations where noones got a gun on you.


I dont mind having a paranoid Commander but the role is supposed to be extremely strict because you will basically guide everyones experience in the match. I would love to see your character a bit more grounded, where i know your not gonna just whip a pistol out and shoot someone and there is actually a chance for the marine law to come in play, some of the RP that stems from the brig would be amazing, and it would be nice to see people attempt to talk about mutiny or even attempt a mutiny or maybe even be talked into some other whacky scenario.

This is my first interaction with your character where i was like, how is he not been removed from command during this match?
When i first met your character you were not allowing any of our infected marines, and heavily wounded marines to board the Alamo and at the time and for a while after our wounded and infected sat there until we were overwhelmed from lack of manpower as most of the people were in horrible condition, I was a medic that round so trying to find all the different ways to fix them up was horrible. When that went on that was when the CMP should have saw you were unfit for command or at least brought it up to HC for review. <<< This wasnt a problem with me, I hated it but that i felt was your commander, it definitely made it hard for everyone on the ground.

[PWNJimiPWN]

Honestly I would love your commander from a RP perspective if he laid off the unjustified BE's because that would make for great rp, the things that could stem from it are amazing.

[Pictish20]

► Show Spoiler

But we are structured after the IRL American Marine Corps, not other countries or anything like that.

So you are saying that your character allows you to shoot people and ruin their gameplay without asking first? Because I have asked admins this before when i had just started and i was told a very solid no, you can not kill or use a marine in a manner that will lead to his death unless the marine has agreed to it, you can hash out the details in the LOOC though.

I meant your mental well being like, mental evaluations, tactical aptitude tests etc to show you are fit for command, but I mean all that aside, If you would stop doing the BE's your character would be more enjoyable RP wise, but with all these BE's and the cold blooded murders, you are ruining alot of other players rp who want to enjoy the game as well. You should try to make more use of the brig when possible, especially situations where noones got a gun on you.


I dont mind having a paranoid Commander but the role is supposed to be extremely strict because you will basically guide everyones experience in the match. I would love to see your character a bit more grounded, where i know your not gonna just whip a pistol out and shoot someone and there is actually a chance for the marine law to come in play, some of the RP that stems from the brig would be amazing, and it would be nice to see people attempt to talk about mutiny or even attempt a mutiny or maybe even be talked into some other whacky scenario.

This is my first interaction with your character where i was like, how is he not been removed from command during this match?
When i first met your character you were not allowing any of our infected marines, and heavily wounded marines to board the Alamo and at the time and for a while after our wounded and infected sat there until we were overwhelmed from lack of manpower as most of the people were in horrible condition, I was a medic that round so trying to find all the different ways to fix them up was horrible. When that went on that was when the CMP should have saw you were unfit for command or at least brought it up to HC for review. <<< This wasnt a problem with me, I hated it but that i felt was your commander, it definitely made it hard for everyone on the ground.

First off, marine law says, and I quote, "They may kill anyone under their command or on their ship without any warning or procedure if they feel they are a threat to the mission.", vis-a-vis BE's. Secondly, I may indeed be a little BE-trigger-happy, however, the round in question, I had a CMP who had already demonstrated his opposition to me. By brigging the XO, I would have allowed a threat to exist going forward. I knew that the CMP would've never authorized an execution, and likely not even perma, and I couldn't leave a person with as much power as the XO in a position that posed a threat to my command, this, he had to die, then and there. As for the SO, as I have said, the Marines were out for blood. By killing him, I prevented this. I am also requesting that the logs of the SO's subsequent ahelp be brought up, he was perfectly fine with the execution, and even asked that I not be banned. And, aren't the Marines always used in ways that put them in positions to die? My character just doesn't feel sympathy for the Marines, and treats them like soldiers under his command, not men under his command. Of the four BE's I've done, only one of the four seemed, to me, to be out of the blue and possibly resolvable by the MP's, and that was the second one, which was from a different round. What I have done much more often is a sort of "execution by deployment". I send insubordinate SO's to the planet. They are incentivised to help the Marines win, and are out of my CIC. This has lead to at least two attempted mutinies by the officers in question, and if I were truly how you paint me to be, I would have just shot them dead. Of the rounds we're I have taken Cavalet to the extreme, I believe that none of them have not had someone calling for my removal/faxes to HC/attempted mutinies. I propagate these RP scenarios, and frankly, if two officers have to die to do so, then I'll do so. I will likely cool off Cavalet for the near future, but I see no reason to fundamentally change him.

[Feweh]

I just want to know and I dint care about the SO being blamed for the OB or his execution since it was OOCly permitted.

XO did you secretly or discreetly form a panel behind the COs back with the CMP?

[Vampio Von Klaust]

I just want to know and I dint care about the SO being blamed for the OB or his execution since it was OOCly permitted.

XO did you secretly or discreetly form a panel behind the COs back with the CMP?

There was a panel formed, but I did not join. I did, however, ask to join the panel. The CO said no.

[Pictish20]

Feweh, the panel was neither discreet, nor secretive. The XO effectively told me to my face that he was abandoning his post to go and play jury. The whole story goes something like this: A marine accidentally sets of a grenade in briefing, and is arrested. I ask for the marine to be released, as we're just deploying for an operation, and I'd rather have the marine Planetside, and no MP's tied down in the brig. The CMP refuses my request, and brigs the marine, as is his right/responsibility. The CMP then declares that should the marine appeal, that the CMP would be assembling the aforementioned panel of officers to pass judgement on the appeal. I veto this panel, as my officers are more needed at their posts. The marine does indeed appeal, and the CMP comes to the CIC to assemble his panel. I say, and this is summarized, "We're a military vessel, in a combat operation, we have no time to deal with this like this. You'll remain at your posts." The XO goes off on me about trial by jury or something like that, and he then storms off to the panel. I believe another SO and the CE went as well. They pass their judgement on the marine, and then move on to another marine that was in the brig. I go down to break this up and get my CIC staff back, but I was called back to the CIC for the operation. The XO returns later, we have further disagreements, bang bang.

All of that was written pre-XO's response, and I would like to say that the XO may not have participated, but he did leave the CIC without permission, and in fact, against orders to stay there, for an extended period of time.

[Feweh]

There was a panel formed, but I did not join. I did, however, ask to join the panel. The CO said no.

Just this alone is grounds to blow your face off.