CMP Aaron 'Rogue' Larson

Gabe · Post by **Gabe** » 21 Mar 2018, 09:08

Your Byond Key: Cobradude

Your Character Name: Alexander Hawking

Accused Byond Key(if known): Unknown

Character Name: Aaron 'Rogue' Larson

Approximate time and date of the incident (Central US Time for fastest results): 7:42am Central (12:42pm GMT)

What rule(s) were broken: Rule 1, possible rule 7.

Description of the incident: In a round I late joined, the aliens were boarding the almayer. I grabbed the nearest weapon, which was a flamer, and got to the crashed alamo. I cleared out the eggs that had been set up, leading to a marine push and a xeno retreat. As I moved to hit the last egg, a tricky angle in the cockpit, the CMP came along and tried to push passed me. I, as I am 90% of the time, was on help intent but he evidently was not and seems incapable of selecting it. He pushed me backward, giving himself significant room to pass me, but decided that he was going to be an epic trickster and pushed me back a few more tiles into the fire that remained from the push; and he did this whilst I was typing, to boot. Instead of then helping with the issue, he wandered off to God knows where and left me to enter crit and lie waiting until a medic stumbled across me, as comms were down.

After I was back up, I returned to the dropship to rejoin the fight, and there he was again. I was attempting to leave the crashed dropship through the left door, and he presumably was trying to fuck with me and started pushing me again. I stepped to the side and walked forward again, and he proceeded to again mirror me and try to push me backward. I hadn't realised at this stage I was in harm intent (and to clarify I can say with 100% certainty that when he pushed me into fire, I was in fact on help intent) and so when I clicked to retrieve an injector off the ground (I was in pain crit, still) I hit him a single time. He immediately, wordlessly, before I could apologise, started firing tasers left and right, missing a staggering amount. I began to disarm him as frankly he was just a detriment to the marine push happening a few feet to our west, in which a stray taser shot could end a player's round. After hitting everything that wasn't me, one of his shots connected. He was implored by another MP to not arrest me now, seeing as the ship was boarded, but he persisted and took me toward brig. I, as a marine typically would, began cursing at him as quite frankly he was being unreasonable, to which he responded with batoning me multiple times, whilst I was evidently cuffed.

All in all, the player seems hopelessly immature, too quick to anger, and absolutely incapable of fulfilling the role of CMP to an acceptable standard. It is possible he just does not have the mental capacity to switch onto help intent, but to me his actions seemed all too deliberate and focused on being a minor annoyance. A 'grief-lite' or 'greytide' in more traditional SS13 terms, which in my eyes is unacceptable when playing any MP role, particularly CMP.

Evidence (screenshots, logs, etc): N/A

How you would punish the accused: A stern warning about his conduct as CMP, if not a temporary ban from the role.

Mizari · Post by **Mizari** » 21 Mar 2018, 10:28

Ok so I want to give my side of things and allow you to see my side of things. We were indeed in the crashed ship and fighting Xeno's directly to the west of us, I was clearing the eggs that were in the cockpick and you kept shoving myself continuously back whilst I was trying to clear the egg, no clue why you were doing this exactly but irregardless you did end up in fire, not because of a shove but because you tried walking back the way you came when a Flame thrower was used, causing you to step directly on fire and immediately catch fire. I proceeded to move west to fight the Xeno's still attacking RIGHT beside you whilst a Medic tried to assist you.

We were then pushed into the bird by the Xeno's at which point I believe you tried disarming me of my shotgun but that could of been another Marine, I'll let the Admins check the logs for that. Irregardless you ran off and I proceeded to collect my shotgun and fight the Xeno's where myself and the MP's charged in, managing to slay the Queen and other Xenomorphs in that area. After the area was secure, we moved back into the crashed bird, myself being in critical due to being slashed to bits by the queen and/or a sentinel, you decided to run up to me and punch me. You were tazed and handcuffed as in my eyes you were running up to critical marines and harming them and as my duty as Chief Military Police, I had a duty of care to Marines and yourself which I believed, handcuffing you and removing you from the situation since the Xenomorphs had all been killed in the area and round had ended. You were being brigged for Assault and Disrespect to a Superior Officer through your torrents of insults to my character.

You stepping into the flame was not my fault, you had bad timing as a flamethrower was used to clear weeds but you were left with a Medic and other Marines whilst we fought the aliens back. Had I not left you to engage in the fight, the alamo would have been over-run and you would have been dead seconds after me leaving you with the medic.

I honestly think this is nothing more than a rage report but honestly, I can see your point of view but I'd like to ask you to read mine.

Edit: Just noticed your claims of you being batoned, yes indeed you were batoned a couple of times, One for trying to break out of your restraints and the second was your disorderly conduct for attempting to tell Multiple Marines to "Shoot this dick"

Solarmare · Post by **Solarmare** » 21 Mar 2018, 10:38

Logs of the incident:

► Show Spoiler

I suppose I can firstly mention the CMP during that round has the ckey Mizari.
There were no other damaging combat logs other than the bullet shot and you were stuttering so the claim about being pushed into fire could be true, but also isn't much of an issue as walking marines into fire is an accident that occurs commonly enough and simply needs to be walked out of.
The only issues on the part of the CMP seems minor, attempting to arrest without seeing if someone is compliant and mentioning attempted theft along assault(which is not a charge). Using a stunbaton on you when you were already cuffed seems wholly justified with what you were saying. Attempting an arrest during red alert isn't really an issue, but it could have been carried out better by the CMP.
I don't see reason for administrative action against the CMP here, considering your own comments during it would be about as much an issue as anything the CMP did during it.

Gabe · Post by **Gabe** » 21 Mar 2018, 12:09

Mizari wrote: ↑
21 Mar 2018, 10:28
You stepping into the flame was not my fault, you had bad timing as a flamethrower was used to clear weeds but you were left with a Medic and other Marines whilst we fought the aliens back. Had I not left you to engage in the fight, the alamo would have been over-run and you would have been dead seconds after me leaving you with the medic.

Edit: Just noticed your claims of you being batoned, yes indeed you were batoned a couple of times, One for trying to break out of your restraints and the second was your disorderly conduct for attempting to tell Multiple Marines to "Shoot this dick"

This first bit is entirely fabricated. I did not step into the flame, you pushed me. Whilst the text bubble was there, over my head, plain to see.
You did not leave me with a medic. I had to try and walk to medical, I collapsed half way and was eventually discovered by Bravo.
The aliens were cornered, it's unlikely you had a decisive impact on the outcome.

In terms of the batoning, here, as it says in the logs.

[07:38:38]SAY: Alexander Hawking/Cobradude : Shut the fuck up, brain dead mongoloid
[07:38:41]EMOTE: Alexander Hawking/Cobradude : <B>PFC Alexander Hawking</B> screams!
[07:38:41]ATTACK: Mizari/(Aaron 'Rogue' Larson) stunned Cobradude/(Alexander Hawking) with the the stunbaton.

You can see me, being a mouthy piece of shit, which is how I play my character. You respond to that with force, when I was already restrained and at this stage not attempting to escape.
In response to this, I become more agitated, which you then again use force to stop.

[07:38:47]SAY: Alexander Hawking/Cobradude : Oh look, abuse
[07:38:54]SAY: Alexander Hawking/Cobradude : Surprise surprise
[07:39:02]SAY: Alexander Hawking/Cobradude : Shoot this asshole, grape
[07:39:47]ATTACK: Mizari/(Aaron 'Rogue' Larson) stunned Cobradude/(Alexander Hawking) with the the stunbaton.

It is then after this you bring me to the brig and buckle me to a chair, and I try to escape - which is pretty reasonable in an in-character line of thought seeing as you've now been using excessive force for a while and I don't want to stick around for further beating - which I got.

Solarmare wrote: ↑
21 Mar 2018, 10:38
considering your own comments during it would be about as much an issue as anything the CMP did during it

I don't see how being a mouthy marine is in any way "an issue". Insulting people for being incompetent is probably 40% of the chatter I see, with the other 60 being squaddie banter, which also involves insulting (though more tongue and cheek).

What I do see as an issue, however, is resorting to immediate force after a singular accidental hit, removing a marine from the fight whilst the Almayer is boarded. Marines are not allowed to return fire if they are accidentally shot, this is the same concept. I was not allowed to get a single word out before force was used.
Not to mention the chance that pushing me into the fire was intentional; it seems to me if it was an accident there would have been an apology, or an attempt to put out the flames.

Finally, another correction.

Mizari wrote: ↑
21 Mar 2018, 10:28
removing you from the situation since the Xenomorphs had all been killed in the area and round had ended.

The round had not ended when you arrested me. I don't know whether all the xenomorphs were dead because I was unable to return to the fight.

Mizari · Post by **Mizari** » 21 Mar 2018, 12:22

I would not have arrested you if Xenomorphs were still in the area but yes, the round had ended. You were hit with the stunbaton indeed, I am not disputing that fact but if you check further back in the logs you see that you told multiple people to either kill me or shoot me so yes you were incapacitated so as to quickly put you in brig. You were also buckled to the chair in my office whilst I was still there because the power was out in the brig and I had no way to put you in a cell.

No Harm intent was used and the use of force was only initiated as a result of your actions which in accordance with Marine Law is more than acceptable I believe especially when you are trying to get other Marines to shoot me.

I wont continue to debate this further with you, I've said my part and I believe yes it could of been handled better however I was still withing my right to arrest you and remove you from the area since no Xenomorphs were present, as I said, the round ended literally a minute or so after you were placed in cuffs.

Tharinoma · Post by **Tharinoma** » 21 Mar 2018, 13:14

Looks like an IC issue.

Gabe · Post by **Gabe** » 21 Mar 2018, 13:40

Mizari wrote: ↑
21 Mar 2018, 12:22
the round ended literally a minute or so after you were placed in cuffs.

Actually you said "[the] Xenomorphs had all been killed in the area and round had ended." You had no way of knowing when the round would end, and can presumably put two and two together to see that as the round had not ended, not all xenos were dead. Putting aside the fact that "the round was over" is the worst excuse you can give for anything.

You also seemed to have not addressed the fact you lied in saying "I proceeded to move west to fight the Xeno's still attacking RIGHT beside you whilst a Medic tried to assist you." and "but you were left with a Medic and other Marines whilst we fought the aliens back". As I have already said, I had to wander off in crit to find a medic and collapsed in doing so, having to wait for one to stumble over me. Further you were not fighting xenos "right beside" me whilst I was treated, as I was treated on almost the opposite side of the hanger to where the fighting took place.

Here is a quick illustration to demonstrate what happened in regards to the fire. Needless to say it is pretty insulting that you maintain I walked into it.

► Show Spoiler

Blade2000Br · Post by **Blade2000Br** » 21 Mar 2018, 18:15

As a CMP myself, I don't see any issue since I have already in the past arrested people during code delta and, quite often, baton people while dragging then. Since some guys love to try unhandcuff himself.

So for me, seeing everything here, would be a small warning about following procedure, but can be overlooked since was a code delta incident.
Thus, I go for IC issue on this one.

Gabe · Post by **Gabe** » 22 Mar 2018, 07:55

BladeBr wrote: ↑
21 Mar 2018, 18:15
Since some guys love to try unhandcuff himself...
but can be overlooked since was a code delta incident.

Two small corrections, I was not attempting to escape when the batoning began, and it was code red not delta I believe, though I'm not 100% on that. Otherwise, valid points.

Emeraldblood · Post by **Emeraldblood** » 25 Mar 2018, 13:48

There's no way for us to know/prove that Mizari pushed you into the fire because he wanted to grief you. Given the nature of now Marine combat goes in tight areas, it's most likely just another accident so we're going to leave it at that. As for the second half, the arrest was valid after you punched him and then started to try to disarm him. The fact you made it clear earlier that you disliked the CMP doesn't give you the benefit of the doubt. You got yourself arrested; if you just punched him and then said, "Oh sorry, didn't mean to do that," you probably could have just walked away from it all. If you're looking for trouble, you can't be mad when you find it. Resolved - Case is an IC issue.

CMP Aaron 'Rogue' Larson

CMP Aaron 'Rogue' Larson

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