Staff report X31stOverlord

Clutch · Post by **Clutch** » 25 Mar 2018, 14:36

Your Byond Key: bramb23

Your Character Name: Broden Ackers

Their Byond key: X31stOverlord

Approximate time and date of the incident (Central Us Time for best results): 12:46 PM, March 25, 18

Which Staff Protocols (viewtopic.php?f=57&t=5647) were broken: Investigating situation was not done properly, the seriousness of the situation was not investigated properly and determining the proper punishment was not done properly as well.

Description of the incident: Charlie Specialist Kaitlynn Lawson cut into line by pushing at the corner and moving Lou Greenawalt back. Lou attempted to disarm her and so did several other Deltas to move her out of the line. She began to punch some Deltas to where they punched her back or attempted to. I disarmed her and made her drop her Scout crate and picked it up, moving to the hallway outside West Delta prep where I dropped it. I only grabbed it to pick it up and make her follow me and get her away from the line with the other Deltas.

No gear was stolen and she got it all back. Kaitlynn Lawson escalated the situation. I ended up getting banned and likely a note added without proper investigate work being done.

Evidence (screenshots, logs, etc):

► Show Spoiler

How you would punish the accused: Light punishment, if this has happened more than once, possibly more severe.

x31stOverlord · Post by **x31stOverlord** » 25 Mar 2018, 15:09

Now that the round in question is over:

From what I can see, the first contact was made by the Delta Lou Greenwalt. The server does not pick up logs from "non-interactive" pushing, I.E. if she walks into you and pushes you back, that does not generate a log.

I understand that sometimes fights may break out IC, however, you continued to pursue and escalate the situation after I gave a warning in OOC about fighting in the req line, you also did take the Specs crate and ran off with it.

You neglected to inform us about how you then returned to the situation after I messaged you, saw that the Spec was being cuffed and then tried to lock her in a locker.

I have asked for some help in pulling all logs of the situation and my messages plus your response.

I applied the ban due to very similar issues in your note history.

Clutch · Post by **Clutch** » 25 Mar 2018, 15:23

Thank you for the quick response. From an investigative side you could've viewed Kaitlynn's variables to see I wasn't the one whom initiated the fighting. As far as the OOC warning, I missed it... due to being involved in the scuffle with Kaitlynn and the other Delta members. I explained every time you PM'ed me and I didn't receive a response. You didn't notify me that I was being banned... I can respect that I do have prior notes related to shenanigans - that have all generally been handled IC. In this situation, the MP's would've arrested me for fighting. Which is fine, it's a game - and not low RP to retaliate when you witness a squad member being pushed around by another squad member. The MP's exist to handle small round start shenanigans - which is what this would amount to. You never told me to stop in the PM's, so I assumed this was just you investigating to figure out why Kaitlynn was being such a derp to all of us and get a feel on what to do. I didn't feel like stopping immediately was a necessity or else I would've been banned. Had I been told to stop via PM I would've realized the severity of which you viewed this scuffle as.

Asmodius · Post by **Asmodius** » 25 Mar 2018, 20:29

x31stOverlord wrote: ↑
25 Mar 2018, 15:09
I understand that sometimes fights may break out IC, however, you continued to pursue and escalate the situation after I gave a warning in OOC about fighting in the req line, you also did take the Specs crate and ran off with it.

I was there and saw the entire thing, I didn't see anything in OOC, I'd very much recommend a PM as it goes to the player and is virtually impossible to ignore.

Lou Greenawalt did in fact push her first, but that's because Kaitlynn Lawson was pushing into line through movement and not action. I saw the entire situation and can explain most things.

Kaitlynn Lawson punched approximately five Deltas and was disarming them, running up and down the RO line clicking rapidly, swinging. Delta did retaliate, but it was to get her out of the line after she cut. Broden just moved her stuff so she would have to go and get it and therefore remove her from the requisitions area away from Delta and the place where she cut into line. He dropped her stuff in front of the West side of Delta prep doors I believe and he did not steal anything.

Considering everything, I think a three hour was more in place if there was to be a punishment, and even then, Kaitlynn Lawson was more deserving of it in my opinion. Broden simply received more flak and punishment because of him having more notes and issues with his ckey than Lawson, I assume.

EDIT: I realize I didn't say anything, but, I believe since he's a trialmod, he was just trying to exercise a bit of power as a tmod and may have over done it. He should've went further into investigation by asking more than one or two people. I'm in the screenshots and wasn't asked anything about the situation and it was somewhat focused around me.

x31stOverlord · Post by **x31stOverlord** » 26 Mar 2018, 03:19

Clutch wrote: ↑
25 Mar 2018, 15:23
Thank you for the quick response. From an investigative side you could've viewed Kaitlynn's variables to see I wasn't the one whom initiated the fighting. As far as the OOC warning, I missed it... due to being involved in the scuffle with Kaitlynn and the other Delta members. I explained every time you PM'ed me and I didn't receive a response. You didn't notify me that I was being banned... I can respect that I do have prior notes related to shenanigans - that have all generally been handled IC. In this situation, the MP's would've arrested me for fighting. Which is fine, it's a game - and not low RP to retaliate when you witness a squad member being pushed around by another squad member. The MP's exist to handle small round start shenanigans - which is what this would amount to. You never told me to stop in the PM's, so I assumed this was just you investigating to figure out why Kaitlynn was being such a derp to all of us and get a feel on what to do. I didn't feel like stopping immediately was a necessity or else I would've been banned. Had I been told to stop via PM I would've realized the severity of which you viewed this scuffle as.

The reason of the ban being put inplace was heavily influenced by your note history of improper escalation and your persistence of carrying to inflame the situation when I had warned everyone via OOC.

If there is a situation that the MPs need to handle. You need to inform them of such, do not take matters into your own hands by dealing with it yourself. Or if you can't get the MPs to deal with something just ahelp it. I believe we had several mods on at the time who could have helped. What happened originally didn't involve you so you had plenty of opportunity to get the MPs involved.

After running into your prep and the spec left, you then reurned to req line and saw the spec being cuffed, you proceeded to still act inappropriately by attempting to shove her in a locker and walk off.

I stand by my decision to place the ban.

Asmodius wrote: ↑
25 Mar 2018, 20:29
I was there and saw the entire thing, I didn't see anything in OOC, I'd very much recommend a PM as it goes to the player and is virtually impossible to ignore.

Lou Greenawalt did in fact push her first, but that's because Kaitlynn Lawson was pushing into line through movement and not action. I saw the entire situation and can explain most things.

Kaitlynn Lawson punched approximately five Deltas and was disarming them, running up and down the RO line clicking rapidly, swinging. Delta did retaliate, but it was to get her out of the line after she cut. Broden just moved her stuff so she would have to go and get it and therefore remove her from the requisitions area away from Delta and the place where she cut into line. He dropped her stuff in front of the West side of Delta prep doors I believe and he did not steal anything.

Considering everything, I think a three hour was more in place if there was to be a punishment, and even then, Kaitlynn Lawson was more deserving of it in my opinion. Broden simply received more flak and punishment because of him having more notes and issues with his ckey than Lawson, I assume.

EDIT: I realize I didn't say anything, but, I believe since he's a trialmod, he was just trying to exercise a bit of power as a tmod and may have over done it. He should've went further into investigation by asking more than one or two people. I'm in the screenshots and wasn't asked anything about the situation and it was somewhat focused around me.

Thank your for your response to the matter. The reason I didn't message everyone individually and sent out a message OOC was because of the number of people getting involved. After the message was sent that number dropped immediately.

The reason I applied the ban to Broden was not me "trying to exercise a bit of power" but rather because of his level of actions whilst dealing with the situation. From borderline griefing when he took the scout crate to improper escalation, with quite a lot of similar notes on his account a three hour ban I thought was too light.

I understand your reasoning behind the thought. But as I mentioned earlier in this post I stand by my decision to apply the ban. As such, when this is investigated by the head staff I am happy to receive any warning or failure of my trial period if they think I was doing this purely to "flex" my authority.

As a slight side note, if you don't mind me adding this, in future you should air your opinions on bans and staff on report forums as opposed to deadchat in the next round. All staff are volunteers and it is a little disheartening to see accusations of abuse of power etc. in deadchat.

Adralimas · Post by **Adralimas** » 26 Mar 2018, 10:42

Attack logs involving Kaitlynn Lawson alongside some chat inbetween.

► Show Spoiler

Pm's Between staff and player.

► Show Spoiler

Symbiosis · Post by **Symbiosis** » 26 Mar 2018, 11:32

I can attest as a character witness that Broden is pretty much a shit at round start. But he generally doesn’t cross the line and grief.

I witnessed this particular confrontation and can attest that Kaitlynn was stirring shit, but whatever, lots of people stir shit and the MP’s sort it out. This is very important staff report - if line fighting results in a ban, what is the purpose of MP’s and IC interactions? I’m sure many people can attest that Charlie Delta often times get in fights. Be it food fights or req line fights, it’s very well known.

slc97 · Post by **slc97** » 26 Mar 2018, 13:16

I'll be reviewing and responding to this tonight.

slc97 · Post by **slc97** » 26 Mar 2018, 18:38

Alright, so I'm gonna start by covering real quick the new way staff reports work. Instead of one higher-up being judge, jury, and executioner, basically we operate it like the US Supreme Court now. The 4 managers talk about it and the heads can see and join in where they like to. We all collectively come up with a decision and I write that decision out in the most concise way we can. So onto this issue...

Alright, so first off, we're going to remove the note, and we apologize for the ban. No punishment will be given to Overlord, but I'm going to be speaking with him about how better to enforce situations like this, because this is a complicated situation, especially for a trialmod. I mean, the managers even sat in our chat for like an hour being like "There's so many moving parts here, how the fuck should we handle this?" So the issue is, you were banned for griefing. The griefiest thing you did was stealing the kit and "hiding" it. But it only put in the prep room, so really, it was at worst being a dick.

What should have happened here IC was Kaitlyn cut in line and you all call MPs, but you didn't do that. What should have happened administratively was Kaitlyn was warned/banned for throwing punches, you and the others involved were warned/banned for trying to act like MPs instead of calling them all due to the roundstart shenanigans crackdown that is stickied on the forums here. Because none of that happened, we're gonna nullify the situation and say this:

Overlord will be spoken with on how to handle certain situations better administratively. Clutch, you need to watch the escalation. You weren't in the wrong here, but you have so many notes for it and a lot recently, that it's easy for it to be assumed your intent in your actions was not good. For everyone, roundstart shenanigans crackdown is gonna remain in place until further notice. CM is currently in a position where we are reviewing a number of our older policies. Roundstart crackdown will be one of those policies; however there are many to cover and we're still working out the kinks in the new administrative turnover.

Resolved.

Staff report X31stOverlord

Staff report X31stOverlord

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