CO Report- Heinz 'Wulfe' Meuller

Nerlair · Post by **Nerlair** » 13 Apr 2018, 07:07

Your Byond Key: Infinity38

Your Character Name: Caden Quinn

Accused Byond Key(if known): Bancrose

Character Name: Heinz 'Wufle' Meuller

Approximate time and date of the incident (Central US Time for fastest results): 3:00 AM CDT 13/4/2018

What rule(s) were broken: General 1, 7, Marine 1, 9.

Description of the incident: I was playing as Delta Specialist for the round and at briefing I shouted "soyboy" which led to the CO, Heinz 'Wufle' Meuller called me up in front of me and told me to repeat what I have just said in front of everyone else. I asked him the second time that whether he wants me to repeat it. He said "yes" and so I repeated "soyboy" but that led to me getting BE'd by the CO.

Later on, his response to USCM High Command is that I got BE'd by him for insubordination and disrespect of a Superior Officer and he said that "So I asked him to repeat it,and out of his own stupidity. He did it not through a direct order by me or anyone else." If that wasn't a direct order, I don't know what's a direct order then.

Also, as quoted from Heinz from his CO whitelist application on his view on Battlefield Execution "I have read it quite a few times now and have witnessed it on multiple occasions and have come to the conclusion that it is a tool used by the Commander when it is completely necessary and have exhausted all other options." I'm sure he did not exhaust all other options in that situation. Apparently calling him a "soyboy" is a threat to the mission which made me got BE'd by him.

Evidence (screenshots, logs, etc): https://imgur.com/a/x1yzC

How you would punish the accused: Removal from CO whitelist. I don't think someone like that is suitable to become a CO.

Bancrose · Post by **Bancrose** » 13 Apr 2018, 07:25

Now lets uh start this off by me asking you, Have you ever played under my command before. Are you familiar with Chen or Kingfisher? Or Familiar with the Jones trial that has started this horribly dead and stale meme of "Soyboy".

Nerlair · Post by **Nerlair** » 13 Apr 2018, 07:30

Bancrosexd wrote: ↑
13 Apr 2018, 07:25
Now lets uh start this off by me asking you, Have you ever played under my command before. Are you familiar with Chen or Kingfisher? Or Familiar with the Jones trial that has started this horribly dead and stale meme of "Soyboy".

Yes, I'm familiar with them but I never saw them getting BE'd from calling you a "soyboy".

Bancrose · Post by **Bancrose** » 13 Apr 2018, 07:32

Okay, Never saw but obviously you've heard of it.

So if you knew what I did about that sort of thing, you'd still attempt to bait me into the BE?

Nerlair · Post by **Nerlair** » 13 Apr 2018, 07:33

Bancrosexd wrote: ↑
13 Apr 2018, 07:32
Okay, Never saw but obviously you've heard of it.

So if you knew what I did about that sort of thing, you'd still attempt to bait me into the BE?

I never knew you would BE someone for calling you a "soyboy".

Bancrose · Post by **Bancrose** » 13 Apr 2018, 07:42

Nerlair wrote: ↑
13 Apr 2018, 07:33
I never knew you would BE someone for calling you a "soyboy".

I've been telling people for days now to stop this sort of stuff, Its a meme that I actually despise and demand people to stop since its no longer just an ingame meme, its actually becoming OOC issue.

But to start inciting the other marines to do it in briefing would illicit a massive response. Now obviously you are not informed of any of this prior information but I punish this sort of Lowrp harassment thing with upmost seriousness.

WinterClould · Post by **WinterClould** » 13 Apr 2018, 07:54

I've gone to great lengths to tell the tales of the consequences of insulting your CO. If you call our superior officer a Soyboy to his face, you get shot, it's that easy. It's the whole point of us having the BE rule, so people don't undermine the CO's position by fucking around in his face.

I wasn't in the round so I'm a character witness here but I'm likely a perfect one.

Heinz frequently gets harassed for his character. By both friends and enemies, people frequently insult and attack him trying to bait him into doing something funny. I feel like people may be going to far and have become very unoriginal.

As the man who started the trend of calling him a soy boy I can say it was funny the first, 5 times? It was still funny when people who are close friends with him did it, but now people who dont understand the consequences of their actions are doing it and paying the price for it.

I don't see how you didn't think there might be consequences to calling a notorious CO a rude name in front of the whole crew. If I was in Heinz' s place and you called me a soyboy? I'd have shot you or called the MPs on you, depends on my mood.

awan · Post by **awan** » 13 Apr 2018, 08:14

Well, on the other side it is to be used on people who are a serious threat to the mission.
You can say that arresting them might have made it worse. But shooting them did not help either. I got at least 3 ahelps asking us if they could shoot you.
Now that ends in a circle as well because then you get people provoking the CO so they can shoot the CO when he tried to BE them.
There is a chance the mission could have been derailed quite a bit by what happened here.

!	Message from: awan
	This next bit is my personal opinion.

Also, complaining that they are going for low rp with the soyboy meme is a bit wierd imo.
Because even though there is no marine that would do this to his commander.
There is no commander that would shoot a marine for calling him a soyboy.

Imperator_Titan · Post by **Imperator_Titan** » 13 Apr 2018, 11:51

Relevant logs regarding the situation.
I'll be using some gyazos from your own evidence as megaphones do not infact create text logs for whatever reason..

The BE itself here.

► Show Spoiler

An ahelp sent in by the CO in question himself.

► Show Spoiler

Another scenario in which the marines were continuously harrassing the CO in question.

► Show Spoiler

And finally, the CO being questioned by the CMP regarding why he executed the marine in question.

► Show Spoiler

Personally, I believe that this BE was justified. Sure, it might've been an extremely shitty thing to do. But ICly the marine in question had spread the "soyboy" meme to about three others and many marines themselves were insulting the CO over it, creating a wide-spread meme of insulting the CO straight to his face. Guy was undermining his authority at every step like a dummy too. Not to mention that a few marines went out of their way to further expand the meme by planting soy all over the ship.

Sir Lordington · Post by **Sir Lordington** » 13 Apr 2018, 12:21

Don't insult the CO if you don't want to get shot. If you bait an execution and the CO takes the bait, it's on you so don't come over complaining.

Ordering him to repeat it was a bit shitty, since it appears to put you in a damned if you do, damned if you don't. However, you should bear in mind that insubordination is failure to obey a LAWFUL order, and insulting your superior is unlawful, so you should've just stayed quiet. You really brought this one on yourself.

Post by **apophis775** » 13 Apr 2018, 15:55

If you don't want the whitelisted CO who has the ability to executed ANYONE UNDER THEIR COMMAND FOR ANY REASON to execute you, perhaps you shouldn't insult him?

By the way, in the military, it's VERY common to be brought to someone you insulted and then asked to repeat it. Typically you don't repeat it unless you want extreme trouble. You just apologize or say it was misheard.

solidfury7 · Post by **solidfury7** » 13 Apr 2018, 21:53

It's a tough one, the marine in question was obviously memeing.

While I dislike the situation of a BE over an insult, I can see why it happened, especially due to it becoming the new equivalent of aliens screching reee.

If there were military police available, they should of been dispatched to detain the marine, and as a CO, make his life hell on Earth.

xMotta · Post by **xMotta** » 14 Apr 2018, 01:43

Okay, since I witnessed this for the great part, I have a say in this, I guess.
I think the CO exaggerated, like a fucking lot, why would you fucking kill someone over an insult, that's lowrp right there, obviously, along with the meme, but hell you're saying memeing is lowrp but you're doing it as well.
And also, we're here to have fun, all of us are, why would you take someone else's fun to you prove you're a motherfucker not to be fucked with oocly? That makes no fucking sense from my perspective, like you just delayed the round 3 hours for someone just because you got mad at a meme, next, your response when you got arrested was "I'm gonna ssd, the round is over for me" That's kinda unfair, he just waited 3 hours to play another round cause you BEd him and now you just go to bed not having any type of "punishment" for your behaviour, ICly nor OOCly, since well, let's say it, brig is an ic punishment as well as an ooc one since you have to be afk there, but hey, I'm not complaining, it works, but the point is, he just fucked someone else's round for free over a minor excuse, like a trigger happy person, I'm no in the CO whitelist, of course not since I'm kinda new here, but I have RPed almost my entire life, and I'm pretty sure that's not how a commander has to roleplay, battle execution is the last resource for someone that is putting the mission in danger, I don't think that saying "soyboy" is endangering the mission tbh, but hey, that's the admins discretion, tho, I think they should modify the rules and or the marine law since well, you can get shot just for insulting someone with authority problems.

https://imgur.com/a/jbYqf

Some pictures I took cause I thought they could be usefull.

Sorry I can't engrish.

CCRWasHere · Post by **CCRWasHere** » 14 Apr 2018, 07:38

I was a subordinate under Commander Meuller as one of his staff officers: I was Lieutenant Julien Petrov, and I was a direct, first-hand witness to the incident and the events that transpired after.

I fully believe that Meuller was justified in his execution of Caden Quinn for his comment, but not because of the word used as an insult or how serious Quinn meant by it (Quinn and the other marines were flippant, not scornful).

Heinz Meuller was justified in using this execution simply because the insult was made during briefing in front of the ENTIRE platoon; Caden Quinn undermined the Commander's authority in front of ALL of the Commander's crew.

If Caden Quinn said it offhandedly on his squad's comm or when passing by the Commander in one of the Almayer's hallways, then an execution would have been inappropriate. Heinz Meuller knows this, and I fully believe he would have used the Military Police had Caden Quinn made his remark in my previous two examples.

But Caden Quinn didn't.
He said it in full view of the battalion which encouraged others to mock the Commander. The Almayer and her crew were on a military operation far from any guaranteed reinforcements and facing an unknown situation and enemy. The success of the mission was at stake when Caden Quinn undermined the Commander because it made the Commander's character less worthy. If you can call the Commander a 'soyboy' and only receive a short brig sentence, why even follow his orders? Just do what you want, no consequences!

That must NOT have been allowed. Commander Meuller knew this and acted accordingly.

Merne23 · Post by **Merne23** » 14 Apr 2018, 17:00

As the Warrant Officer during this incident I didn't see the BE in person, but at the time I was the only MP and I was running around between the CPs, the Req line, and Briefing all at once. I heard a bit about 'soyboy' and OOCly knew shit was going down the drain.

After the BE I tagged Heinz for arrest and, after Briefing let out, sent a fax to High Command. Because this is an IC issue, not an OOC one. Caden Quinn obviously baited out Heinz Meuller with memey shittery and knew what he was getting into.

I kinda fucked up with the arrest but that's not a topic for this report; the point being that the CO had full authority to whip out his Mateba and gun you down. It's up to the WO (if they have an issue with it) to gather evidence and contact High Command about it. Since two Marines in particular were like "hey WO the Commander makes me scared can you contact High Command?" I thought it would be best to take care of the issue.

quarantinetimer · Post by **quarantinetimer** » 15 Apr 2018, 02:16

I was SSGT Colten Hall, who only went on duty only after the BE incident had already occurred. I was given a very brief overview of the case over the radio. Despite the fact that I did not directly work on the case, I was subject to some of the after-effects of the incident.

OOCly, and in hindsight, I believe that Commander Meuller was justified in his actions. While it may indeed be unreasonable if a mere individual is being disrespectful towards him, this is not the case here. Instead, specialist Quinn had, either intentionally or not, managed to incite quite a few senior NCOs of the marine platoon into doing the same thing. At that point, the issue had escalated. An assessment of the situation would reveal that Commander Meuller's authority has been undermined to a significant degree.

In fact, one could (even if it had to be done on the outer edges of reasonableness) very well say that this was a potential mutiny developing. Certainly, at the time, only one other method (besides BE) of retaining his authority was available: ordering the WO to arrest everyone in the room who called him 'soyboy'. Obviously, this would have severely undermined the success of the mission, since as mentioned before, many senior NCOs within the platoon were involved. Simply arresting and brigging the delta spec would not work, since it would likely have led to the commander being considered weak and unable to discipline his subordinates fairly by the rest of the platoon.

Considering all this information, I believe that the only way Commander Meuller could fulfill his duty to lead the platoon and complete the mission was to conduct the BE on the ringleader- that is, delta spec. The usage of the BE in this occasion, is, in my opinion, strictly in accordance in both letter and spirit with the UCMJ. Even if specialist Quinn, at the time, had no intention of causing such an expansive problem, the BE would still have been justified. An unfortunate necessity, perhaps, but ultimately justified. Additionally, the fact that the marines did manage to successfully defeat the aliens in the round also constitutes evidence (though there is no necessary casual link between the tool, since this is inductively reasoned) to the suitability of the BE. Note that my opinion is not hinged on this fact.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ICly, of course, the WO would have had ample cause to open an investigation into the justifiability of the BE. After all, the above information was only made available due to us being able to view the logs. The WO would certainly not have had this luxury and instead had to find the truth himself. Marine law mandates that the WO contact High Command via fax before performing an enforcement action pertaining to a BE. For the sake of your curiosity, this was what the WO in this round neglected to do in his zeal to rectify what he perceived ICly to be a possibly unreasonable BE and attempted an unlawful arrest of the CO early on. He was soon released afterwards, pending a decision by high command, which were presumably deliberating over the issue.

To the best of my knowledge, high command did in the end find Meuller's BE to be unlawful, which resulted in his (lawful) arrest and brigging. My point about the BE being justified still stands, however. The reasons are as follows: 1. High Command is an IC institution, which only has access to information pertaining to the situation on the Almayer via IC communications (such as fax). 2. Even if high command believes the commander to be guilty of a crime, this is not necessarily grounds for believing that a Commander has broken rules OOCly. The fact that this can happen (without anyone breaking rules) is actually good RP.

I rest my case.

Emeraldblood · Post by **Emeraldblood** » 15 Apr 2018, 12:15

I'll be getting to this tonight. If anything else needs to be said, do so before then.

Emeraldblood · Post by **Emeraldblood** » 16 Apr 2018, 00:50

Right, so I think it's safe to say you were pretty much asking for trouble when you went up and said it directly to his face. The thing that makes this different is the fact this was set in the middle of the briefing. While the CO could have just brigged you, that goes true with pretty much any BE. Given that you were trying to undermine the CO's authority in the middle of briefing puts a bigger target on yourself to for him to prove a point. Given the events that had played out, I don't see it as unreasonable. At most, I'd probably advise Bancrose to be cautious with BE in front of lots of Marines as players are just looking for a reason to get at the CO. You pretty much set yourself up for that one so if you're gonna try to play with fire and get burned in the process, it's probably gonna be your fault. Resolved - Events deemed IC; no punishments will be dealt.

CO Report- Heinz 'Wulfe' Meuller

CO Report- Heinz 'Wulfe' Meuller

Re: CO Report- Heinz 'Wulfe' Meuller

Re: CO Report- Heinz 'Wulfe' Meuller

Re: CO Report- Heinz 'Wulfe' Meuller

Re: CO Report- Heinz 'Wulfe' Meuller

Re: CO Report- Heinz 'Wulfe' Meuller

Re: CO Report- Heinz 'Wulfe' Meuller

Re: CO Report- Heinz 'Wulfe' Meuller

Re: CO Report- Heinz 'Wulfe' Meuller

Re: CO Report- Heinz 'Wulfe' Meuller

Re: CO Report- Heinz 'Wulfe' Meuller

Re: CO Report- Heinz 'Wulfe' Meuller

Re: CO Report- Heinz 'Wulfe' Meuller

Re: CO Report- Heinz 'Wulfe' Meuller

Re: CO Report- Heinz 'Wulfe' Meuller

Re: CO Report- Heinz 'Wulfe' Meuller

Re: CO Report- Heinz 'Wulfe' Meuller

Re: CO Report- Heinz 'Wulfe' Meuller