Player Report CMP Awan Oostveen

[ElfLeaderMike]

I also ahelped this but only a mentor replied and it didn't seem like the CMP was warned or anything, so here's the player report to be sure.

Your Byond Key: ElfLeaderMike

Your Character Name: Jack Roc

Accused Byond Key(if known):

Character Name: Awan Oostveen

Approximate time and date of the incident (Central US Time for fastest results): 6AM EST

What rule(s) were broken: Military Police are bound to follow Marine Law as RULES

Description of the incident:
The CMP arrested me for making mixed chems and putting them inside the vendor. At this point I had not vended a single pill bottle so I don't understand where the distribution charge came from.
Doctors are allowed to make and carry chems they want for personal use, and ONLY doctors have access to the vendor. The CMP claimed putting them in the vendor counted as distribution which is completely wrong.

Evidence (screenshots, logs, etc):
WO Awan Oostveen says, "Jack roc you are under arrest for Medication Distribution"
Dr. Jack Roc says, "I havent distributed any"
Dr. Jack Roc says, "So yeah no"
WO Awan Oostveen says, "You did"
Dr. Jack Roc says, "Nope"
Dr. Jack Roc says, "I havent given any out"
WO Awan Oostveen says, "You put them in the smart fridge"
Dr. Jack Roc says, "Thats not distribution"
WO Awan Oostveen says, "It is"
Dr. Jack Roc says, "Marines dont have access"
WO Awan Oostveen says, "Squad medics do"
WO Awan Oostveen says, "And so do doctors"
Dr. Jack Roc says, "No they dont"
Dr. Jack Roc says, "Medics do not"
WO Awan Oostveen says, "The cmo just told me they authorized nothing"
Dr. Jack Roc says, "Yeah so I havent given any out"
WO Awan Oostveen says, "You made it anyways and the cmo did not authorize any medicine"
Dr. Jack Roc says, "If people have papers I can give it to them."
Dr. Jack Roc says, "Its not illegal to make, only to distribute"
Dr. Jack Roc says, "We're DOCTORS"
WO Awan Oostveen says, "Even doctors need papers for medication"
Dr. Jack Roc says, "Yes but I didnt distribute"
Dr. Jack Roc says, "So your arrest is wrong"
WO Awan Oostveen says, "You did you put it in the smart fridge"
WO Awan Oostveen says, "And I am the one who rules on marine law not you"

How you would punish the accused:
Jobban from CMP at minimum. MP as well if this has happened before or a very serious warning for using marine law incorrectly.

Also below is the EXACT wording for medical distribution, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with making mixed chems any not handing them out as a Doctor.

Medication can only be distributed to trained medical personnel. Any distributions other than basic medications (found in labeled vendor pill bottles or autoinjectors) must be authorized on a case-by-case basis in written form signed by either the CMO or the Acting Commander. Combination medications (more than one medication in a pill or bottle) may never be distributed to anyone below a Doctor.

Normally I would have appealed to a CMP for a case like this to sort it out, but the CMP in this case does not understand marine law.
I do completely admit that I was salty and quit shortly after, mostly because I was extremely frustrated with the CMPs ignorance and it just left a bad taste in my mouth to keep playing.

[Sleepy Retard]

I was gonna give what I saw and heard but showing this just seems to be better overall: (from staff-help on the discord, noting what spooky said)

[Hoodedhero]

I was another mp on that round and if i remember right the cmp kinda went afk on and off for awhile until he cryod.
I think either he did not enjoy being a mp or he was doing other things at that time.

[awan]

So, there is a prelude to this.
1. I found pills in the hallways.
2. I went to medical and asked for the reagent scanner and I got it.
3. You were stating over the radio that the chemicals were ready.
4. The pills contained iron and sugar counted as combination medication.
5. I used my forensic scanner on the pill bottle in the fridge and only your prints are on it.
Pills on the floor in the hallways means they are distributed.

Now this already means that the crime of medication distribution was committed. The only question now is who did it.

Why I did think it was you. 1. You were not just making the chemicals but also announcing they were ready. 2. The cmo seemed clueless and said they authorized nothing in chemicals to be made so you were making them on your own accord. 3. smartfridge pill bottle had your prints. You were next to the chemicals and the one who made them.
Within 5 minutes of them being made they are in the hands of the medics that just seems to me as if you had no intention to prevent distribution either.
The chemicals in question are used/handed to squad medics to treat blood loss. In medbay it is not used because you will use blood bags instead.
I asked another person oocly if squad medics can use the smart fridge and they said yes. I think part of the confusion is that I thought a medic vended it from the vendor. But it seems a doctor did.

In this case yes you are falsely arrested if you were not the one to distribute the pills. And yes I was wrong about who has access to the vendor.

[awan]

I was another mp on that round and if i remember right the cmp kinda went afk on and off for awhile until he cryod.
I think either he did not enjoy being a mp or he was doing other things at that time.

The power in my building went out because of something overheating in my city.
And I deal with one of 2 ahelps.

[Hoodedhero]

The power in my building went out because of something overheating in my city.
And I deal with one of 2 ahelps.

Ah sorry about that assumption

[Karmac]

Couldn't you have just scanned the floor pills for prints instead of jumping the gun.

[awan]

Couldn't you have just scanned the floor pills for prints instead of jumping the gun.

Only medic fibers and such. And normaly doctors make them without ever touching the pill so there would be no evidence of who distributed it on the pill anyways.

[Karmac]

So by default you have inconclusive evidence and are jumping to the conclusion he's the guy that did it because while you can't prove he did, you can't prove he didn't.

[awan]

There was only 1 pill bottle with iron-sugar pills in the smart fridge and that one did have his fibers and prints on it. Just his prints.

Also only he had been making chemicals

[Karmac]

You still can't use that as evidence enough to arrest him because even with that in the fridge, with only his prints on the bottle, and none of his prints on the pills, you can't prove he A. Gave a pill to anyone B. Gave a pill-bottle to anyone or C. Another doctor did either of these things.

[awan]

You still can't use that as evidence enough to arrest him because even with that in the fridge, with only his prints on the bottle, and none of his prints on the pills, you can't prove he A. Gave a pill to anyone B. Gave a pill-bottle to anyone or C. Another doctor did either of these things.

No but I do not have to.
If you as a cmo authorize chemicals to be distributed to squad medics but are not the one distributing them you will get the charge.
And imo he was at least intending to do to the crime:
[04:40:58]SAY: Jack Roc/ElfLeaderMike : Medics got any special requests?
[04:45:17]SAY: Jack Roc/ElfLeaderMike : We got dex+, iron-sugar, imi-alky, tricor pills, anything else lads?

I did only see the second one from an ic standpoint but was informed of the first one. But there is no way you are telling me this is not evidence of him wanting to do this.

And yes in hindsight it can be constructed as seeing him messaging the doctors in the second post but the medics in the first. But there is no standard of proof currently. Even the appeals page does not mention what kind of evidence basicly circumstantial evidence would be enough to deny any appeal if you follow it.

[spookydonut]

I think the question is did you have IC proof of his guilt or not.

[WinterClould]

So I was the mentor that answered this guys ahelp. Forget what it was exactly about but I think it was to do with distribution of medical stuff and marine law. I think Awan, myself, and jerkface were the only staff online and I answered the ahelp since jerk didn't and Awan wasn't allowed to since it involved him. Tried my best to give this guy the best answers about our complex kinda silly marine law. Think once he explained he was falsely arrested I tried to tell him to appeal his sentence to the WO, kinda winking and nodding to awan to go and hear out this guys appeal. I was playing the round though I think do I didnt follow any of the events of like, when Awan went afk or what happened to this guy later.

I have to say, I've got nothing against Awan personally he's fine by me, but I feel like he plays shitcurity and a total cockbite when he's an MP. Often feel like instead of looking to keep the ship in order he's actively looking for people to punish and fuck over with his MP authority.
I know MPs don't need to play the nice gentle corrective hand, but that doesn't mean I can't dislike the ones that don't.

[awan]

Well as I stated earlier. At the time my assumption was the medics can use the smart fridge. This is a no it seems.
So my reasoning at the time was that it was valid. Because from the information I had medics could use it.
(See the picture he posted.)
So yes it was a false arrest because of false information.
The arrest was because pills got out. If squad medics can use the fridge then it was 100% a valid arrest.
And without this the arrest is shaky indeed. But there was evidence pointing to him. Just not absolutely conclusive evidence.
But if medics can use the smart fridge (Like my assumption at the time was.) then it is 100% a valid arrest.

[awan]

Also, the player disconnected the second the posted conversation stops.
There was no time for me to check the claims the player made at the time.
I cannot confirm if the ahelp was done while I was talking to them or after but the entire interaction was not longer then a minute at most.
After the player already ghosted there was no way for me to change prior actions.
I would have not handled the appeal myself but let the aCO do it and would not have minded a release.

[Emeraldblood]

This will be dealt with pretty soon. We've been pretty busy over the past few days and this topic is still under discussion.

[awan]

I remain of opinion that this is not a marine law issue.
The origin of the issue is my wrong assumption that the medic got the medicine from the smartfridge himself. (And thus had the access to do so)
That has nothing to do with marine law itself and without that the arrest was shaky at best as I stated earlier.

[Emeraldblood]

Right, we (head staff) have talked to Awan regarding the situation. No direct punishments are coming from this and we shouldn't have any problems in the future. Resolved.