Re: Player Report: Joseph Kallen

[420MYK]

Your Byond Key: 420M.Y.K

Your Character Name: Alice 'Snow' Falkner

Accused Byond Key(if known): unknown sorry

Character Name: Joseph Kallen

Approximate time and date of the incident (Central US Time for fastest results): 5:20am (ish Im in new Zealand so dont quote me)

What rule(s) were broken: Cant pull up specific rule numbers and such at the moment as the rules page on the forum/wiki arent available due to the domain change but reading the report should make it apparent.

Description of the incident: OK i need to start this with some background to what happened earlier in the round that may or may not have led to this event taking place. I will also omit any names that aren't mine or Josephs. Basically i was Delta SL and heard early in the game that my smartgunner had apparently cuffed a bunch of charlie marines, i have no idea where they got the cuffs as mine were still in my prep room but having had my smartie on my screen for a vast majority of the DS flight i found it hard to believe, Hearing that the WO was on his way down to arrest them via command coms i warned the WO that that would not be a good idea as we all know how well marines and MPs get along. I also considered my smartgunner to be more than a little necessary to the operation at hand and requested that WO leave it til we got ship side again to sort out any problems. (Note this report is not against the WO they did their jobs fine until delta lynched them as is what happens when MPs try disrupt marines going ons)

When i saw the WO station side and moving to arrest smartie i positioned myself to take the taze-shot for her to try buy time to talk to WO. After a scuffle with the WO (I along with a couple of other marines were blue intenting at this point to buy smartie time so i could get words in) This is where i may or may not have been in the wrong at this juncture but i trained my gun on him and asked him to stop and worry about it later, once more. He tazed me again and moved to secure my weapon, as he did so he shot me twice with my own rifle (later i found out in discord that it may have been misfires from my marines trying to disarm) And at this point delta did what delta do and lynched him after watching what they would have just simply seen as the WO tazing and shooting their SL. Cue dead WO with a DNR (pretty sure he got dragged across glass piles and got major brute to the extent of no longer being rev-able).

I heard neither head nor tail from any command coms or squad coms that MPs were coming planetside to continue the "discussions" with me and my marines. After maybe another 10 minutes or so i was greeted by another MP coming straight upto me and saying that i was under arrest and proceeding to try cuff me without reading my charges, needless to say i kept moving away while explaining that it was not the best time to try arrest me as i was leading my squad against an assault with previously FF OB'd defenses, until he tazed me at which point he also smacked me with the tazer (Id call it a miss click but ill leave that for them to defend). At this point with me tazed on the ground multiple marines were pushing him to stop him from cuffing me (not just deltas either) and this is where my really bad move came in. Seeing he wasn't going to stop or read me my charges and with multiple squads focusing on my situation and not defenses i saw it IC as he was putting OPSEC at risk. I picked up a shotgun that was lying nearby and went to shoot him once in the chest. Well my targeting was set to head because i had to heal a injury earlier and forgot to set it back to chest, i also cant explain how i shot two shotgun rounds but it must have just been muscle memory because he got two bucks to the head. BIG BAD on my behalf i know and i admitted to it shortly after when i got apinged about the situation and was ready to face any ban that may have been imposed on me from it.

After talking to the moderator dealing with the situation (cant remember the name sorry, when your dealing with up-to a hundred names rolling past on the screen it gets hard to keep up) during which time i died to xenos as i was halfway through a ahelp, i was warned about letting MPs just arrest people and not shooting them which although i personally find the amount of freedom MPs have to be broken is fair enough in some ways. I managed to get revived and ship-side for medical treatment but as my squad needed supplies i left medical quickly and was waiting by the Alamo hangar for the Alamo to come back so i could drop a bag off to go down station side again.

This is when the MP walked upto me again as I'm in standing-crit (Im pretty sure MPs don't have medhuds in their SEChuds so he probably couldn't see how bad i was) and started unloading a handgun into me right outside medbay. I don't know what happened to him at this point as i crit-pained and dropped blacking out, i woke up for long enough before being put under anesthetic to get a command coms message out about the incident. As i was under anesthetic and being fixed up i heard the OP room doors open and started taking more damage from a handgun. I was out cold but it doesn't exactly take a rocket scientist to figure out it was probably the same MP.

There is other info i later found out (to do with his side of the ahelp about me shooting him) via discord and such that i don't know whether it goes in a report like this so ill leave
it out for now but this is the bare basics of my side of the situation.

Evidence (screenshots, logs, etc): Apparently I cant upload the pictures i took as the files are too large but if they are needed badly ill find a way, they're only pictures of the chat window showing the shots being fired and hitting me so probably not too helpful anyway and I'm sure logs can confirm.

How you would punish the accused: Honestly i like writing story's not reports and only reason i wrote this one is because this MP went well above and beyond what MPs are allowed to do (which considering the freedom MPs have with marine law and such is pretty hard to do). As for punishment id say appeal-able job ban at VERY worst But id be happy with a proper warning and talking to from a mod or admin like I've had before. It does set you straight and makes you keep things in mind next time and I'm not out to ruin anyone's day or game. Plus OOC stuff aside (dying while replying to apings and such) and the fact it may or may not have cost the defense of FOB it wasn't all that bad in RP terms but protocol is protocol.

[JennerH]

So here's what I saw: SG pulled some shit that the CMP deemed worthy enough to deploy for, and after a scuffle he double taps the SL in the head.

At this point I'm ready to open fire but I relax a little, figuring the MP did it accidentally, but then he goes to arrest someone. He starts firing his tazer everywhere so we disarm him and I toss the tazer in the trash. He whips out his baton, stuns a few people, loses that and grabs a rifle, just starts unloading into marines. At this point we're weapons free and devastate the valid CMP.

Now. I thought that would be the end of it, but while I was being operated on an MP walks into the OR next to me and mag dumps his pistol into my SL. Apparently someone on staff had told him he was allowed to execute her or something, and he took that as permission to drop her on the operating table.

The whole situation is fucked, and for some reason there was a mortar in space shelling LZ1 as Well. I think the MPs suffered from some serious grade-A big brain that round

[awan]

I am going to be pulling some logs for this.
I am at work using mobile so I might need a minute.

In the mean time can you awnser these questions?

1. Did you ahelp again when the mp did this to you?/Do you know if it was already handled ingame.
2. Do you still have the pictures/logs if so send them to me through discord and I will add them.
3. Did you attack/antgonize this mp in any way DIRECTLY?/is the mp who shot you the one you shot?

I ask this last question because they can use lethal force if you used it and it was authorized

► Show Spoiler

[NethIafins]

Hello, that moderator was me. I'm sorry that I didn't look at the MP issue, but the actual MP behavior was not ahelped. So the only thing I was worried about is shots fired during an arrest.

LZ1 was shelled by bald SO who shot OB with wrong offset

If you have combat issues, drop the PM, I can wait.

That's all from my side now, let's wait for other staff

[420MYK]

Ah yes you were the mod who was apinging me and top lad you were too handled me nice and fair and gave me a good thinking point for next time.

yea that OB was REALLY bad it was my OB and i called full west and there was no offset at all put. But i dont think the OB played into very much aside from the stress of the situation of alot of hostiles knocking on our gaping hole of a front door while i was getting "arrested". if it had been a good OB chances are the situation woulda gone so much different because of the whole actually having breathing room thing and being able to talk to the MP to get it through to him that he needed to read me my charges not just arrest the FOB squad leader who was in the process of leading not only her squad but a couple of others too.

I also sent a quick but not very official ahelp as i was getting carted off to surgery after the first mag dump outside of the medbay, but it was barely a sentence at most so i didn't expect much to come from it and it probably got ignored which was fair enough(my bad really i should have taken the time to write a proper ahelp) the second mag dump in the surgery room i didnt bother ahelping coz i had more important things on my mind like getting evidance for this and making sure my squad were back shipside.

Again +1 for your apings you handled it well.

[420MYK]

Oh and sorry awan i read neths message then yours.

1. i ahelped the first mag dump outside medbay but like i said in my reply to nethiafins it was barely passable as an ahelp. it was a sentence at most something like "yo that mp just tried executing me outside medbay" and i didnt do the second because of the whole DS about to crash and i had to organise what was left of delta.
2. Like i said in the original report im not sure how much my pictures will do it basically just chat logs of the shots but ill send them in discord shortly.
3. yes it was the same MP that i double Buckshotted (again info is in report it wasn't meant to be two shots and it certainly wasn't meant to be aimed at the head i just wanted him put down so he could go away get healed and let me do my job until defenses were back up and i had time to actually answer MPs nonsense) But when he shot me shipside i was already in crit barely able to walk (I died to xenos replying to the apings about shooting the MP and was revived by my medic on the alamo), unarmed, and not posing a threat and we weren't in any alert state at that point so he could have easily tazed or stunbattoned me, there was no CO or CMP (CO never woke up and CMP had already been lynched by the rest of delta earlier in the round) but aparently as i found out later on in discord he got told by ahelp that he could have me executed (this was in #last-round-chat so i have no clue if it is true or him covering his butt) which he took as walk upto her and shoot her til shes dead as opposed to following proper procedure and taking the way of lethal inject.

[awan]

So, first things first. The offending players has no notes about anything negative.
1. I can confirm the delta sg tried to cuff people for no reason. He has said nothing during these logs. Not before.
2. The entire scuffle with the WO is a big mess and is the reason this took a bit longer for me. There are a few issues in this scuffle I feel I had to take up with the staff managers.
You were however among the people who used lethal force on the WO.
3. What I can find out from the logs. This is the incident.

► Show Spoiler

[05:38:57]SAY: Joseph Kallen/: You!
[05:39:04]SAY: Joseph Kallen/: You are under arrest
[05:39:18]SAY: Joseph Kallen/: Compliance is your best interest
[05:39:39]ATTACK: Joseph Kallen () shot Alice 'Snow' Falkner (420myk) with a taser bolt in the Entrance Hallway (<A HREF='?_src_=holder;adminplayerobservecoodjump=1;X=212;Y=122;Z=1'>JMP</a>) (<a href='?priv_msg=[0x500005a]'>PM</a>)
[05:39:45]ATTACK: /(Joseph Kallen) attacked 420M.Y.K/(Alice 'Snow' Falkner) with taser gun (INTENT: HELP) (DAMTYE: BRUTE)
[05:39:49]ATTACK: /(Joseph Kallen) attempted to handcuff 420M.Y.K/(Alice 'Snow' Falkner)
[05:39:58]ATTACK: /(Joseph Kallen) attempted to handcuff 420M.Y.K/(Alice 'Snow' Falkner)
[05:40:03]ATTACK: /(Joseph Kallen) attempted to handcuff 420M.Y.K/(Alice 'Snow' Falkner)
[05:40:19]SAY: Joseph Kallen/ : I don't care!
[05:40:20]ATTACK: Alice 'Snow' Falkner (420myk) shot Joseph Kallen () with a shotgun buckshot shell in the Entrance Hallway (<A HREF='?_src_=holder;adminplayerobservecoodjump=1;X=213;Y=123;Z=1'>JMP</a>) (<a href='?priv_msg=[0x5000026]'>PM</a>)
[05:40:21]EMOTE: Unknown (as Joseph Kallen)/: <B>SSGT Unknown (as Joseph Kallen)</B> screams!
[05:40:22]ATTACK: Alice 'Snow' Falkner (420myk) shot Unknown (as Joseph Kallen) () with a shotgun buckshot shell in the Entrance Hallway (<A HREF='?_src_=holder;adminplayerobservecoodjump=1;X=213;Y=123;Z=1'>JMP</a>) (<a href='?priv_msg=[0x5000026]'>PM</a>)
[05:40:22]EMOTE: Unknown (as Joseph Kallen)/: <B>SSGT Unknown (as Joseph Kallen)</B> screams!
[05:40:23]EMOTE: Unknown (as Joseph Kallen)/: <B>SSGT Unknown (as Joseph Kallen)</B> screams!
[05:40:31]ATTACK: /(Vadim Dmitriev) grabbed /(Joseph Kallen)

They send a pm to the staff asking if they could execute you.
The first reply they got was a yes.
They asked how to contact high command for it to be correct.
They got given a that info.
I cannot see a log of them getting permission or it being refused. Nor a fax or emergency message they send.

They did shoot you in the OR and killed you.

[JennerH]

So, first things first. The offending players has no notes about anything negative.
1. I can confirm the delta sg tried to cuff people for no reason. He has said nothing during these logs. Not before.
2. The entire scuffle with the WO is a big mess and is the reason this took a bit longer for me. There are a few issues in this scuffle I feel I had to take up with the staff managers.
You were however among the people who used lethal force on the WO.
3. What I can find out from the logs. This is the incident.

► Show Spoiler

[05:38:57]SAY: Joseph Kallen/: You!
[05:39:04]SAY: Joseph Kallen/: You are under arrest
[05:39:18]SAY: Joseph Kallen/: Compliance is your best interest
[05:39:39]ATTACK: Joseph Kallen () shot Alice 'Snow' Falkner (420myk) with a taser bolt in the Entrance Hallway (<A HREF='?_src_=holder;adminplayerobservecoodjump=1;X=212;Y=122;Z=1'>JMP</a>) (<a href='?priv_msg=[0x500005a]'>PM</a>)
[05:39:45]ATTACK: /(Joseph Kallen) attacked 420M.Y.K/(Alice 'Snow' Falkner) with taser gun (INTENT: HELP) (DAMTYE: BRUTE)
[05:39:49]ATTACK: /(Joseph Kallen) attempted to handcuff 420M.Y.K/(Alice 'Snow' Falkner)
[05:39:58]ATTACK: /(Joseph Kallen) attempted to handcuff 420M.Y.K/(Alice 'Snow' Falkner)
[05:40:03]ATTACK: /(Joseph Kallen) attempted to handcuff 420M.Y.K/(Alice 'Snow' Falkner)
[05:40:19]SAY: Joseph Kallen/ : I don't care!
[05:40:20]ATTACK: Alice 'Snow' Falkner (420myk) shot Joseph Kallen () with a shotgun buckshot shell in the Entrance Hallway (<A HREF='?_src_=holder;adminplayerobservecoodjump=1;X=213;Y=123;Z=1'>JMP</a>) (<a href='?priv_msg=[0x5000026]'>PM</a>)
[05:40:21]EMOTE: Unknown (as Joseph Kallen)/: <B>SSGT Unknown (as Joseph Kallen)</B> screams!
[05:40:22]ATTACK: Alice 'Snow' Falkner (420myk) shot Unknown (as Joseph Kallen) () with a shotgun buckshot shell in the Entrance Hallway (<A HREF='?_src_=holder;adminplayerobservecoodjump=1;X=213;Y=123;Z=1'>JMP</a>) (<a href='?priv_msg=[0x5000026]'>PM</a>)
[05:40:22]EMOTE: Unknown (as Joseph Kallen)/: <B>SSGT Unknown (as Joseph Kallen)</B> screams!
[05:40:23]EMOTE: Unknown (as Joseph Kallen)/: <B>SSGT Unknown (as Joseph Kallen)</B> screams!
[05:40:31]ATTACK: /(Vadim Dmitriev) grabbed /(Joseph Kallen)

They send a pm to the staff asking if they could execute you.
The first reply they got was a yes.
They asked how to contact high command for it to be correct.
They got given a that info.
I cannot see a log of them getting permission or it being refused. Nor a fax or emergency message they send.

They did shoot you in the OR and killed you.

I just wanna reiterate that the WO was the first one to use lethals on first the SL, and shortly after on the mob of marines around them. As far as I can tell he started it, we ended it.

[420MYK]

Good timing too then i just woke up haha.

1. Ok fair deal smartie was trying to be arrested early in the round then if they were actually cuffing fools, But i didnt see it happen and when asked IC if the smartie had done it she said no. Obviously a lie but i wasnt to know that and as i explained there was alot that was happening in the round that made it hectic on top (somehow LZ1 was being mortared the second we stepped off the DS, and i mean THE second we were off there was whistling, admin "event" maybe) which is why i wanted as much of my squad around as possible, While there maybe some issues OOC with how i handled it i believe RPwise and IC that i handled it properly (warning WO not to come down, trying to talk to him about it.) Yes i did get a couple shots off when the WO tazed me the time he took my rifle coz i trained it on him and had time to finish the lock on so when he tazed i still shot too, if there was anything else beyond that it was unintentional and i only did it in the hopes he might stop being so gungho and actually talk to me about the situation. But next time in a Leader position if my marines are getting arrested ill let it happen and go with them to find out the story if they are what id consider mission critical.

2. i agree it was a MASSIVE mess and OOC i know i may not have handled it the best (IC after he double tapped me with my rifle i may or may not have given delta squad clearance for the lynching) But as for the killing and lynching itself i was still stunned and being worked on by a medic for the most part after he lit the squad and everyone else in FOB up. aparently the WO was issued a ban of some descript though but thats none of my business. (opinions are mixed on this but i personally think the WO did a good job up until he double tapped me and started magdumping into a crowd, but by the sounds of it no he was being shitler).

3. By the looks of that log that is essentially what happened. He walked up to me and said that i was under arrest, i cant remember exactly what i replied but it was basically fuck off this is not the best time, considering the fact FOB had just been badly OBd and wiped half the defenses and xenos were about to be coming through kitchen. Also i have put my hands up multiple times to the fact i accidentally shot him a second time. it was only meant to be once to get him down so meds could work on him buying me time to sort out defenses at which point i would have gone and found him and had my charges read etc, assuming he had any intention of actually reading my charges.

So yea by the sounds of it He took the staff replying about the execution as his permission if no high command faxes were sent. I dont believe staff ahelps are IC info last i checked so he DIDNT have clearance to perform even a standard lethal inject execution let alone him mag dumping me twice with a service pistol. And by the sounds of it he knows better because if he was just told "yes you can execute her" and left it at that id call it a slip on his behalf, but then he asks about high command before proceeding to not follow through with getting the permission. That id have another issue with but like i said im not out to ruin peoples days.

I know OOC that i didnt handle the situations the best, Marine law rules giving MPs the power they have basically makes them untouchable so i guess we have to play the game as such, But when i play CM or any RP game i tend to get really into it so ICly/RP i dont think i did much wrong, i was trying to balance space nazis riding my squads ass, a FOB that was being bombed from the second we stepped off the DS and reports of and attacks from giant xenomorphic killing machines. Put real life me into that situation in a world where i know they can get revived and healed up from a buckshot to the chest in roughly 5 minutes, and shit yea im gonna do what i can to formulate some kind of plan to save the rest of the marines at FOBs lives. Laws and such can be answered to later on once everyones not being ripped apart by monsters.

That being said that doesnt give the MP any right what so ever IC or OOC to walk into the alymayer medbay, and start unloading a firearm into a marine being worked on by a doctor (That also could have been hit i might add, not sure if he was but it was a possibility all the same). I just feel that the whole execution business was salt driven from me: 1. denying his arrest of me and 2. being cuckshot twice (again i only meant to do once but muscle memory is annoying). And i would have still had a problem with it had he followed all protocol and gotten permission from HC, but i wouldnt have written a report because everything would have been flush. Mag dumping however is very much a salty tasting way to try and execute someone. doubly so when its with a service pistol (Couldnt of gone and gotten a tac shotty? least then it woulda actually done the job) AND done twice the second time being while im knocked out by anesthetic. Then there's the fact that post round i saw him complaining in discord #last-round-chat about how i didnt actually die after dumping two mags into me.

Improper escalation at most, don't note the poor guy leave his record clean (Ive got a note or two i believe and i worry if i ever apply for whitelists or anything it might affect me), I believe until i shot him and made him mad he was doing an OK job aside from not actually reading my charges to me, just remind him that MP is a RP heavy role that has alot of power that you should be careful with coz marines dont like how MP issues and such are treated with marine law changes, Tbf hes probably lucky he didnt get lynched as well knowing how marines can be.

[awan]

I just wanna reiterate that the WO was the first one to use lethals on first the SL, and shortly after on the mob of marines around them. As far as I can tell he started it, we ended it.

Nope, SL used lethals first. I have that in the logs. The SL their weapon was used on the rest of the squad but the first hit is from the sl.

[JennerH]

Nope, SL used lethals first. I have that in the logs. The SL their weapon was used on the rest of the squad but the first hit is from the sl.

are you talking about the CMP or the MP? because the logs you showed were for the MP, while the event I witnessed was for the CMP, in which the SL never used lethals on him. He stunned her, grabbed her rifle and put 2 rounds into her head.

[420MYK]

The logs are for the MP issue. The CMP issue i did technically shoot first coz when he tazed me my lockon triggered and shot him before the taze actually hit. CMP would have saved himself being shot if hed stopped being gungho and actually talked to us about it like i tried getting him to do multiple times both in command coms channel and in person stationside. But yea the double tap you saw that started the lynching was uncalled for but i cant remember if people were disarming him or not at that point. I only included the situation with the CMP because i believe it was backstory info that played into the actual thing i was writing this report about which was the MP issues. like ive stated multiple times as far as i saw CMP was doing good until he picked up my rifle aside from refusing to talk and just wanting to arrest. Report is not against CMP at all but the MP, i just added the extra info's because i prefer to be thorough with official stuff like this especially when people time on the game maybe affected.

[420MYK]

Sorry for any grammar or spelling errors its cold here and my fingers arent working right haha

[JennerH]

oh, in that case I really don't know who's at fault. CMP shouldn't have shot for any reason but you shouldn't have either. ultimately the CMP did the worst thing he could have done by shooting a bunch of marines

[420MYK]

Agree on both facts. I OOC meta know that MPs will still taze even if theyve got 3 marines locked onto them coz tazer is OP asf. But IC i was trying to get even a second of him not chasing smartie and actually listening to and talking to us so we could talk to him about it and i could actually get info about the situation. He wanted to remain gungho and then proceeded to shoot me, my squad and multiple other marines in FOB who were already dealing with being bombed and he paid the price.

Ive put my hand up OOCly that i coulda handled it abit better but IC everyone involved did as id expect people would do in that situation IRL up until he tazed me while i was fully locked on. I mean IRL if someones holding a gun to my head and all ive got is a tazer i know im listening to the highly trained, highly armed SL surrounded by their marines. (dragging him through the glass pile to prevent resus may have been abit much though, i know that wasn't you and don't actually remember who it was but yea).

[Emeraldblood]

Right, so if I understand this correctly, you just shot an MP who was trying to arrest you? This isn't a reasonable response and chest or not, you shouldn't just buckshot some guy because he's trying to arrest you. On top of that, MP are allowed to cuff you first and then read your charges, it's not forced to be done the second you come into contact with them. While the MP shouldn't have executed you with the pistol, they did ahelp if they were allowed to do it and a mod did directly say yes. The mod also told him how it can be done ICly but it's possible the player didn't realize there were direct IC procedures to this. Given you got yourself into the mess in the first place by shooting them and then a mod did say they could execute you, which the mod in question will be talked to, this is just going to be left in as IC. I'd advise you try not to cause trouble with the MPs if you want to avoid things like this in the first place.

Resolved - No OOC action will be taken; player was given permission by a mod to do the execution without specifying needed for it. I'll smooth things out with the mod but otherwise the case is closed.