R'ka Us'Tribi

[Anything86]

Your Byond Key: Anything86

Your Character Name: Young Warrior (710)

Accused Byond Key(if known): GoliathTheDespoiler

Character Name: R'ka Us'Tribi

Approximate time and date of the incident (Central US Time for fastest results): 7:00 US Central Time

What rule(s) were broken: Predator Code of Honor (specifically hunting dishonorable & innocent prey)

Description of the incident: I had recently evolved from defender into warrior after a mature defender was killed somewhere north of the hive, which was located in the caves of LV (basically, around the lake region). The Queen warned us that it was caused by a headhunter, and heeding this, I instead head south towards the river and decide to check the sand temple. It's important to note that apart from three sandstone doors in a line by the entrance of the temple there were no other markings that could indicate it being a shack, nor any sort of barricade (I myself mistook this for a map change recently pushed, since LV was updated). All given, I walked in, saw a predator, reported his location to the Queen and was walking out. Two steps away from the exit I step on a hunting trap (which on my way in I luckily avoided), and Goliath chases me out of the shack, stuns me with a chainwhip, drags me in and finishes me off.

From my understanding, the moment I stepped on the hunting trap I was no longer able to fight to my fullest potential and was thus dishonorable/innocent prey. It also seems specially in bad taste to utilize hunting traps as a way of killing young xenos.

Evidence (screenshots, logs, etc):
https://i.gyazo.com/f1aca7989f65c75ddb1 ... 20c0ce.png
https://i.gyazo.com/3991e7eb1118e2fccc5 ... b9f418.png

How you would punish the accused: Re-evaluation of their whitelist. I was only one of the many young xenos he wound up killing that round, and while I am not omniscient to know how each one died, I believe Goliath acted in a manner that greatly upset the balance of the round (which ended by the one hour mark) by eliminating a good portion of the hive and hunting prey he should not have hunted.

[driecg36]

Hunting traps are not considered dishonorable in a hunt, and even if you didn't know it was his lodge, it still was.

From what I gather, the new map changes made it so that the sandstone temple is rather out of the way of the xeno hive, but I may be wrong since I haven't had that much time to explore it. Ergo, the aliens *sought out* goliath to fight him, making them all perfectly viable targets.

I was the next pred that spawned, and I did see a lot of dead xenos, but they were almost all within the vicinity of the lodge.

[GoliathTheDespoiler]

Hello Anything, everyone, I'll hand in my side of the story here.

The most I can say is that I absolutely cannot deny that I ended up killing way too many xenos that round, and I seriously did screw the round over for the xenos resulting in a quick victory for the marines. And I am very seriously sorry about causing that.

But I think the biggest thing I did here to fuck up was fail to designate what my hunting area was more clearly, as Anything's stated in his report.

As of a few weeks ago I have been trying a new 'strategy' with predator which I've dubbed thunderdoming, which is basically trying to clearly designate an area as dangerous and goading worthy hosts to come in to fight honorably. The biggest thing is that it's NOT a lodge, and as such, I can't go around calling everything unworthy prey and blasting them. The main hazard of the dome is meant to be a large volume of placed traps (this dome had about 10ish in the end, 6 from the pred ship, 4 from planetside spawns) which is meant to promote larger groups to come in to attack me.

As it turns out, it did as designed. Every kill save for ~2 was performed in the thunderdome, with the other two kills being just outside as I was chasing xenos who were escaping/being dragged out of the dome w/ traps on their legs.

I had expected xenos to be far more hesitant to attack me, most likely only 2 or 3 xenos coming to fight and end up dying, but a Boiler, Crusher, 3 Warriors, 2 Spitters, a Sentinel, 2 Defenders, a Runner and at least 3 Lurkers came to kill me, which I decided to fight head on. It ended in me dying, but also a LOT of xenos dying, too. I've performed this strategy before and it usually would just shut down a flank + make me a nuisance, but not actually result in mass-death. Not to mention a share of deaths between marines/xenos who entered the dome.

Like I said, I severely messed up in not deciding 'this is too much' and just rolling over to die for the sake of the round, but I had too much confidence that I'd survive the xenos long enough to have marines try to attack before I'd die. I take full blame for what's happened and I totally understand any punishment I get.

But with that said, I don't necessarily think I violated the honor code, mostly just failed to preserve the round's balance.

[Imperator_Titan]

I was a witness that saw this unfold.

He literally created the lodge south of the hive, I don't know what he expected. Single-handedly destroyed most of the hive because it was just young T3s and mature T2s fighting him for the most part alongside with his use of traps.

The rounded ended 1 hour in because they only had 1 T1, that being a young crusher to fend off the marine attack.

The honor code wasn't violated however, I'd expect better from a whitelisted player.

[Mvp777]

I was observing when this all kicked off, Goliath didn't chase down and kill xenos only attacking those who entered the 'thunder dome'. While it was admittedly poor form to kill so many xenos, they DID mob him with a massive amount of xenos.

While the honor code wasn't explicitly violated it could've been done better, frankly i'd think that the experience and consequences thereof is enough of a punishment for Goliath, and not to do something in that vein again.

[Anything86]

Hunting traps are not considered dishonorable in a hunt, and even if you didn't know it was his lodge, it still was.

Most predators I see only use the trap when attacked by groups and/or unworthy prey. In all my time playing I have never seen a hunting trap being used in a honor duel, and that seemed to be the closest thing my death could be considered a result of: a honor duel (one which was very poorly telegraphed if anything: he only laughed, saw I stepped on a hunting trap and murdered me)

Onto the lodge part, if anything within the lodge is free game, then it might aswell be well marked. I am certain that it ended up being very well marked after the fourth or so xenomorph died, but in my case there was no telling that it was a killzone.

[GoliathTheDespoiler]

Most predators I see only use the trap when attacked by groups and/or unworthy prey. In all my time playing I have never seen a hunting trap being used in a honor duel, and that seemed to be the closest thing my death could be considered a result of: a honor duel (one which was very poorly telegraphed if anything: he only laughed, saw I stepped on a hunting trap and murdered me)

Onto the lodge part, if anything within the lodge is free game, then it might aswell be well marked. I am certain that it ended up being very well marked after the fourth or so xenomorph died, but in my case there was no telling that it was a killzone.

Sorry man, but that wasn't the lodge. It was essentially a fighting arena for ballsy xenos/marines to face me in. I can't target anything as an unworthy target in there because they're not viable.

Traps aren't used in honor duels usually because honor duels have a higher standard of honor to a hunt. Hunts usually are for the goal of earning a trophy at the end, not an honorable fight. It's a side effect, of course, you can't be DIShonorable when hunting, but you aren't held to as high a standard.

You were hunted, not dueled, man.

[Anything86]

I am unsure of why Symbiosis' response was deleted as it was on point with the topic, but I have snipped the relevant part in the gitlab issue. Now, this wasn't even the main focus of this report (wiping out 70% of the hive was), but it's disappointing how vague and outdated any reference to what is potentially the most powerful tool in a predator's arsenal are. I still stand by my belief that these should not be used against young xenomorphs and hope that this will eventually get a revision.

[driecg36]

These;

https://gitlab.com/cmdevs/ColonialMarines/issues/2594

https://cm-ss13.com/viewtopic.php?f=137&t=16466

are not official rulings. Vague comments from devs about the power of traps is not enough to actually judge on whether or not traps are honorable or not.

I personally believe the killing of the trapped warrior was excessive, considering it was just scouting and running away, but we still need a clear, official ruling on the status of hunting traps.

[x31stOverlord]

These;

https://gitlab.com/cmdevs/ColonialMarines/issues/2594

https://cm-ss13.com/viewtopic.php?f=137&t=16466

are not official rulings. Vague comments from devs about the power of traps is not enough to actually judge on whether or not traps are honorable or not.

I personally believe the killing of the trapped warrior was excessive, considering it was just scouting and running away, but we still need a clear, official ruling on the status of hunting traps.

NGG stated not long after I joined the Yautja group that traps -are- acceptable in a hunt but not in an honour duel. Thereby removing Fewehs previously ruling on them.

But you are right, these ad-hoc rules are not written down anywhere and makes it a nightmare to deal with.

[Solarmare]

Now that I'm done: I have deleted many of the posts above because they were a circular argument over a past ruling and a more recent one over whether hunting traps were fine to use in hunts.
I've left the posts that show this most clearly.
To summarize, there was a past ruling that they could not be used to hunt and a more recent one that they could be used to hunt on xenos that were healthy, that should be the end of that arguement.
If there is more to be posted here then it should be done under rule 2, where you contribute what you saw specifically as a witness or a character witness of the individuals involved.
I shall note that a character witness is your general impression of the character involved, if people continue to ignore rule 2 I will have to lock this report until further messaged.

[Imperator_Titan]

I'm going to go ahead and lock this. The most recent ruling is that hunting traps are fine to use in hunts, so we'll stick to that at the moment.

Resolved - No action will be taken. The honour code was not violated. Player realizes his mistake in screwing over round balance anyways.

[Emeraldblood]

Hunting traps are just that, traps for hunting. They're perfectly fine to use and kill Xeno/Marines that step on them. If you don't want to risk dying to a predator, don't bother them. Unless this becomes an occuring issue with GoliathTheDespoiler, there's not a problem with how he's playing ATM. Titan's final verdict will remain.