Player Report: Rex Texas (And other MPs)

[Lorem123]

I do think the past history of the MPs should be brought up here though. Rex Texas does have a history of being an incredibly bad MP who does nothing but grief.

[FGRSentinel]

In fairness that's a lot of rounds involving Rex though. I could write an essay on my experiences with Rex, but none of them are 100% relevant to this current issue. I think it'd be better to wait for the logs regarding the more contested events: how long did the CO delay deployment, did they say he was going to BE all the SOs, who it was that set off the grenade in the Brig, and others.

I'll admit there's a chance I misheard the CO regarding the BE thing, but the entire situation just seems like a CO deciding to feed into a group of MPs that needed to cause trouble and were 100% willing to enable him in every way. That's basically the entire situation in a single sentence from what my perspective.

Unless something comes up that I feel I can add to or help clarify, I'm going to just step back now.

[adrenalinetooth]

I for one think it's a very cool idea to see pulse rifles only. Marines disobeying a LEGAL order and causing mass mutinies like this is the reason mutiny rules were locked up by Apop. If marines continue LOWRP and mutinies over stupid shit like this were going to see the rules tightened up again.

I agree fully with this. A simple order to not use shotguns when you have a perfect all round weapon like the m41a is not a deal breaker ICly, except everyone OOCly knows that they are the best weapons to fight xenos with so they had a huge sissy fit.
We are supposed to be marines that went through boot camp, a training course designed to break down your attitude and make you carry out an order at the snap of a finger. Sitting in that briefing room seeing so much childish behaviour with the shotguns was really disheartening, and I feel bad for the CO.
This incident shows us that with the current ruleset the CO's orders are more like suggestions; if marines don't want to follow orders, he is pretty much powerless to make them listen. Either do what the marines want, or get fucked.

Here is a livestream snip of my perspective of the round, excuse my extreme LowRP as MT. Hopefully this will help highlight how bad it really was (in glorious 240p)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9vmTkJSEEVg

[FGRSentinel]

The commander should never be trying to intentionally screw over marines. With balance and winrate being what it is, denying the marines the most valuable weapon in their arsenal (not to mention the ONLY valid weapon for engineers and medics, etc) is shitty behavior. Honestly I do not see how this would have gone any differently than banning attachments or other past incidents that sparked a mutiny. With the MPs feeding the fire and all the misinformation going around, I do not blame them for being fed up and mutinying.

That reminds me, there was a point where I actually sent forward a request from the medics and engineers to be exempted from the ban that went ignored, so I'm actually starting to wonder if the fact it didn't apply to officers was meant to give them an edge in the inevitable mutiny. As for misinformation, a lot of the screaming about torture and that happened after the initial mutiny/peaceful protest turned violent.

I agree fully with this. A simple order to not use shotguns when you have a perfect all round weapon like the m41a is not a deal breaker ICly, except everyone OOCly knows that they are the best weapons to fight xenos with so they had a huge sissy fit.
We are supposed to be marines that went through boot camp, a training course designed to break down your attitude and make you carry out an order at the snap of a finger. Sitting in that briefing room seeing so much childish behaviour with the shotguns was really disheartening, and I feel bad for the CO.
This incident shows us that with the current ruleset the CO's orders are more like suggestions; if marines don't want to follow orders, he is pretty much powerless to make them listen. Either do what the marines want, or get fucked.

The brig only has 10 cells and more than 20 marines reflexively grabbed shotguns. I think the CO's exact orders were "Shotguns are banned, anyone seen with one is to be arrested for insub." This is the issue: the CO's orders gave very little ground, which the MPs jumpped at immediately, which as we all know typically means they probably cut off any routes the Marines could use to return the shotguns. Since you didn't see command comms, you didn't see the CO also give all Officers permission to carry shotguns or, when informed that the Almayer literally could not handle the arrests his order would cause, snapped at the SO reminding him of this and refused to produce evidence that the orders were from HC. He also ignored any requests to make exemptions for medics and engineers as stated above, meaning that they would be forced to use weapons that take up more space with their ammo and do less damage when, realistically, engineers are more likely to have shotguns because they're likely to be caught in tight spaces or by hostiles jumping out of the darkness, meaning they actually need the shotgun.

The CO decided to icly claim to have orders from HC that were quickly identified as a treat to Operational Success and refused to produce said orders because they were false. Sure, the backstory and that might sound pretty and all, but that's all something they claimed after the fact and since there was no transmission from HC icly with these orders, there's nothing to back the claim up and this falls into a situation where I think everyone in CIC who was paying attention chose to treat the "orders from HC" as the CO's personal orders that were meant to have that extra "it's from HC, you MUST obey" weight behind it. Honestly, a CO making such an arbitrary command and claiming it came down from HC should, in my mind, either be taken icly as a sign that the CO's mentally unfit to command or a low RP situation, especially after requests to see the dispatch are ignored and he snapped when informed that following said orders was a logistical impossibility.

Since there's claims that the mutiny is stupid or not valid, I'll go through what I saw from my perspective by referencing the different parts of the mutiny rules:

"A mutiny must be Adminhelped by a chosen "leader" of the mutiny. The Adminhelp must contain A) the reason for the mutiny and B) the names of mutineers. This Adminhelped mutiny cannot be denied and is only for log-keeping." As someone stated here, the mutiny was reported by this format prior to the start I believe.

"A mutiny must have at least 5 members. MPs are not allowed to mutiny." Quite literally 75% or more of Charlie was involved in the mutiny, so it was "at least five members" and no MPs were involved on the mutineers side.

"Only the Acting Commander can be mutinied against for their actions, decisions, or inaction. Mutinies done for the purpose of taking command in order to punish someone else are forbidden." The goal of the mutiny was, simply put, to get the seemingly arbitrary and unsupported ban on shotguns revoked, as well as to indirectly get the CO to rescind his orders to stop deployment, which, icly, is in fact both Neglect of Duty and insubordination to HC on his part as it should be taken that HC ordered us to drop if we're there. Not only that, but at least one SO suspected the orders were in fact fabricated and, due to a lack of a communique from HC, I feel should icly be treated as such.

"The Acting Commander must be given a chance to stand down peacefully." Charlie walked in with empty shotguns and, I believe, shouted at the commander demanding the order be rescinded. It wasn't until after he refused or decided to ignore them that they cuffed him to a chair. No shots were fired until Bravo was ordered to intervene and the MPs showed up.

"Perma-killing is forbidden (decapitating, hiding defibs, etc)." As stated above, Charlie didn't even show up with loaded weapons from what I know. Once fighting started, it ended fairly quickly on the belief the shotgun ban was lifted and none of the mutineers nor the pro-command people involved were permadead from actions in the firefight from what I could tell. A Pro-CO LT did, however, attempt to fill a downed Charlie with buckshot after the incident ended and was only stopped when I stepped into the line of fire and took a round to the chest. It wasn't until a staff member announced anyone involved in the firefight in the brig other than the CO would be banned that the mutineers started killing people, which makes me think that the announcement was a very poor move that ended up being the final straw for the mutineers.

"Attacking neutral, uninvolved, or surrendered personnel is forbidden." Neither side attacked anyone who wasn't involved in the mutiny (ie, mutineers only attacked CO, MPs, and marines that moved to assist. Pro-CO forces only seemed to attack mutineers) but if claims that Rex tried to execute someone or used a grenade on a marine are true, this would be attacking surrendered personnel as just about everyone who was brigged went there because they were ordered to.

"Everyone on both sides receives medical treatment after it’s over. Interfering in medical treatment of either side is forbidden unless a whitelisted Commander opts to battlefield execute the mutineers." Mutineer-side medics remained behind in the CIC to treat wounded. As Rex himself stated, The CO ordered everyone to be removed almost immediately after the firefight ended and the MPs gleefully obliged, arresting medics and forcing out anyone who could walk before moving wounded or dead, causing the Pro-CO Bravo SL to go permadead. If I'm not wrong, the CO's orders, in this case, violate this part of Server Rules as he himself stated he didn't intend to BE anyone involved here and made no attempt to do so. Furthermore, multiple Pro-CO marines and MPs walked past a clearly limping SO and ignored them after they dropped to the ground, indicating the MPs also had no interest or desire to get anyone medical treatment. Again, Mutineer violations of the law occurred only after staff announced anyone involved in the brig firefight except the CO would be banned, making this, again, seem like rule breaks made by people who believed the MPs and CO were given blanket permission by a staff member to do what they wanted to them.

All parts marked in red are rule breaks either seen from my end or admitted to in this thread. If you notice, all rule breaks prior to the staff announcement were done by Pro-CO characters and my own impression from a direct interaction with Rex was a seeming eagerness to prevent the situation from de-escalating. It seemed to me that, since the MPs and CO knew that Charlie couldn't actually overthrow the CO without his death, that they were perfectly fine with forcing the mutiny to continue as it would only end with all mutineers either being dead or arrested. I think Charlie even explicitly stated before leaving the CIC that the XO was aCO now, but neither the CO nor the MPs were willing to accept that result, meaning either they didn't hear/understand the statement or decided that since the CO was still alive (as they should be under the current mutiny rules) that they were still in command. In either case, this resulted in a mutiny that all mutineers believed ended swiftly going on for more than 40 minutes, culminating in a poorly-timed staff announcement that pushed them over the edge.

Actually, now that I think about it, knowing who gave that announcement and their reasoning behind it would probably be nice for this incident.

[Bancrose]

Having to go through that round as just a Standard marine is one of the worst things I've ever seen.

The Warrant Officer almost looked like he has never read marine law. People were not properly processed, people were not given charges. 5 Charlies were in Perma for most of the round on allegations of a Mutiny and they were released later due to the CMP realizing they haven't done anything that warrants Perma.

Alberto shot a marine with the CO's mateba while attempting to arrest someone with a tazer. Had his Mateba in one hand and a taser in the other.

I also believe I saw the CMP and another MP beat the Charlie SO Yumi Shibanuma with a Harmbaton in perma while she was in a straightjacket, This is also the woman who ordered people to kill all MPs.

One MP managed to double someones time who already had a timer going and just managed to be a dickhead most of the round(Usually how he is anyways) Not entirely sure it was him but I was told later that it was most likely him so take that as you will.

And none of this was ever dealt with this round due to the Administrators Rule 0.

We had MP's just completely neglecting his duty and frontlining in marine armour and all.

Some of this evidence will be proven by the logs. So if I am wrong than my apologies for it as I was a ghost halfway through and didn't get the full context of everything I saw.

Safe to say this round was utterly fucked the moment I heard shotguns were banned. So your first mistake was Blade trying to have a little fun with banning shotguns. This was worse than any mutiny I've ever had, and due to this bullshit we deployed so late. Xenos rushed us and all and every marine on the planet died. Making it a quick round. And the moment the CO tried to BE that marine is when he made the last mistake, giving marines a reason to end him. I would fully support Jbanning most of the MP's and CMP that round. Not all of them were that bad. As a Moderator I would expect Blade and Roberto to know better than to do this.

[Alterist]

I was playing as Charlie Medic Alice "Alive" Hargreaves that round, don't know what I can said that's not been said yet, but I'll try relate what I saw.
So round starts, the cryo shuffle and meal happens, at around 12:05 the CO sends an announcement stating how High Command is banning shotguns for this op. Naturally, this does not go well with the marines, including our SL(Ellie Weaver I think) and SO. The SO makes his disapproval with the command clear on charlie comms, and our SL asks us all to take shotguns in defiance, stating that it would be impossibe to brig us all. Considering that a shotgun is part of my usual loadout as medic, I ignore the order. I head to Req, hearing that someone got their fully kitted out shotgun thrown into disposals. At this point I just wanted to be deployed with my shotgun, thinking that this will all blow over in a bit.
I get through Req with my shotgun and attachments intact and go into briefing, where I was met with the most chaotic scene I've ever seen. Marines were pumping shotguns in protest and MPs were arresting marines for having shotguns, the CO was using the briefing flasher despite there was no one being aggressive. I walked to a chair in the charlie section and was almost immediately met with a flashbang. Despite all the hostility from the CO and MPs, there was little actual harm done from the marines except for someone who somehow shot himself with a SMG, just the sound of pumping of shotguns. The round time was somewhere around 12:25 by now. After a few more flashbangs and unruly marines pumping, the CO goes back to CIC, leaving the XO. The XO announces that Shotguns were now unbanned. Ears still ringing, I see that people start moving towards the hanger, thinking that briefing was finished. I see the checkpoint barriers still up, and a marine engineer deconstructing the windows to get pass them. I can't quite remember, but I recall someone coming over and dropping the barriers.
Being quite displeased with the several flashbangs I had to endure, I picked up two shotguns off the floor as a sign of protest as I got on the dropship. Round time was about 12:35 by then. While waiting for the dropship to launch, Rex Texas came and tried to arrest me for Hooliganism. Considering that there was no reason for such arrest as I was merely holding shotguns, I move a bit to avoid the dreaded stunbaton. Rex then tosses a flashbang on the ship, incapacitating nearly everyone on the ship just to arrest one non-complaint medic while no one else was being hostile to him. After i recovered from the flashbang, I move into near the north of the Dropship to hoping to lose Rex among the crowd of people there. Rex responds by prodding any marines that was in the way of him arresting me. this earns him the ire of several marines, who disarm spam him and I join in. There were a few punches thrown, but all in all it was mostly just the marines showing their disapproval towards the MP. Rex manages to run out if the Dropship mostly unharmed, baton in hand. The resounding cheer that sounded from the marine then was a sign of just how tired we were of the MPs by then. I thought that would be the end of it all and we would be deployed soon. I was wrong.
After waiting for a while, at around 12:40 the SO transmits a somewhat cryptic command to us: "Keep this on the downlow, but get to CIC and I'll open the doors for you"
Understanding that the SO wanted us to continue our protest, several Charlie marines and I make our way to the bridge. Before entering, our SL tells us to not harm the commander and just keep pumping around the CO. I pass that order down to the late coming marines as we enter CIC. I was under the impression that we weren't mutinying, only holding a peaceful protest against the CO's orders.
We surround the CO's glass booth pumping our shotguns all the while, someone manages to pull him out and cuff him to a chair and he is stripped of his shoes, radio and mateba. There was a MP (Viktor something) that was let in from the west side of CIC by a MT in response to the CO calling out that we were mutinying, he remained passive and observed the situation after seeing that we were non-hostile. A punch or two thrown at the CO, but the SL and SO manages to keep it relevantly peaceful. Someone transmits a command that shotguns are unbanned and I thought that everything was winding down when suddenly I hear shots from the east of CIC. A SO called Bravo Squad to stop us, and the Bravo SL was shooting at us, killing a Charlie marine. I was also shot while being non-aggressive and trying to treat wounded. The Bravo SL was eventually killed, unable to be defibbed. Charlie started leaving the CIC, with some heading to the brig to protest the arrest of a charlie engineer. As I left I witnessed a MP stunning a marine in order to throw him out of CIC. I headed towards medbay, with a just defibbed marine in tow to get our broken bones fixed. After surgery, an announcement from the commander comes "All Charlie report to brig for questioning, not willing to walk into the lion's den, I get on the Alamo head planetside. The situation on the ground was chaos, while there was a great FOB built, the xenos pushed right against it. It seemed like we were about to get overrun at any minute, the lack of orders from command didn't help either. While hearing on the comms about Charlie breaking into the Brig, Grenades used on permabrigged marines, and all out mutiny and the CO getting beheaded. I assisted the marines on the ground as managed to push the xenos out of medical despite the lack of unified command. Eventually the XO announced that the WO is granting amnesty to all the mutineers and that he will be taking over as aCO. It was only after this that the marines as a whole became 100% operational, allowing OBs to be fired and the tank to be deployed. I died eventually in a push from medical to bar.
I kept observing after that, and an odd thing out that I noticed was seeing one of the MPs, Alan Jones dressed as a marine deployed on the planet, he was holding a pulse rifle and acting like a common marine trying to fight xenos. I heard from deadchat that he took the CO's ID and ran to the planet.

That was a lot of text, but I just wanted to describe things as I saw them. There is a few point i wanted to bring up:
1. The only MP that I saw act sensibly was Victor Brenburg, who was the only one that didn't act like the CO made it open season on the marines and eventually cryo'd to avoid any
2. The Bravo SL acted aggressively towards peaceful protesters and fellow marines, breaking server rules and marine law, but considering that he was killed and unable to be defibbed, i would consider it an IC issue and don't require additional punishment.
3. The CO admitted in deadchat that he did it simply to see what would happen, knowing fully that it would lead to a mutiny. I later learned that said CO was a moderator, is this behavior allowed in a whitelisted commander, or even a mod?

Due to the Clusterfuck what was the round itself, I ask for the full attack and chat logs of the round to be provided. It probably will be massive, but it will allow us to sort through it and dispel the misinformation that seems to exist

Thanks for the clip, adrenalinetooth, while I disagree with you on how a marine is supposed to act(Have you seen what the actual military is like?), I have to say you were cool as fuck in the round, being the most badass MT in a powerloader ever.

[Dauntasa]

I agree fully with this. A simple order to not use shotguns when you have a perfect all round weapon like the m41a is not a deal breaker ICly, except everyone OOCly knows that they are the best weapons to fight xenos with so they had a huge sissy fit.
We are supposed to be marines that went through boot camp, a training course designed to break down your attitude and make you carry out an order at the snap of a finger. Sitting in that briefing room seeing so much childish behaviour with the shotguns was really disheartening, and I feel bad for the CO.
This incident shows us that with the current ruleset the CO's orders are more like suggestions; if marines don't want to follow orders, he is pretty much powerless to make them listen. Either do what the marines want, or get fucked.

IC, the Commander issued an order banning the use of a standard and extremely common weapon. He cited as his reason an incident which nobody else remembered happening, and lied about the orders coming from High Command and was caught doing so because he was unable to produce any proof of said order. This caused the marines to protest this order. All of this, IC, makes sense.

OOC, the Commander decided to kill the marine's chances for an entire round, wasting ultimately hours of people's time, purely because he wanted to see what would happen. OOC, this irritated people, and in my personal opinion it was very understandable that it did so.

As for the CO being powerless: he has a crew of half a dozen MPs who are extremely well equipped and eager to arrest people for insubordination, and the authority to shoot people in the face for not following his orders. As long as his orders are not so egregious that EVERYONE simultaneously disobeys them, he has more than enough power to keep the marines in line. This is all true to life: the marines are supposed to follow orders without thinking about them, and players generally do. The only time they don't is when the order is so obviously bad that they can recognize it without even thinking about it.

[FGRSentinel]

The CMP and another MP beat the Charlie SO Yumi Shibanuma with a Harmbaton.

Also we had MP's just completely neglecting his duty and frontlining in marine armour and all.

Safe to say this round was utterly fucked the moment you tried to have a little fun with banning shotguns Blade. This was worse than any mutiny I've ever had, because we deployed so late. Xenos rushed us and all and every marine on the planet died. That round was mostly your fault I'm going to say Blade. And the moment you tried to BE that marine is when you made the last mistake, because your life was forfeit at that point.

Yumi Shibanuma wasn't the Charlie SO, I was. Yumi did, however, call for marines to kill MPs, so the arrest was valid. The methods used to do so? Not so much.

The MP you're talking about, Alan Jones, was on the frontline in marine armor because he attacked another SO and the XO, who at this point was the aCO, so that he could steal the CO's ID from them. CMP was informed of this and neither they nor any of the other MPs responded. Alan Jones insisted that the aCO didn't need the CO's ID, but if my understanding of Rule 17 is correct, the aCO is the only person that has any RP reason to grab the dead CO's ID when the Almayer isn't under attack. The SO that retrieved it from the CO's body even explicitly stated after it was stolen from them that they retrieved it to give to the XO.

Honestly, the more I look at it, the more I start to wonder what was going through the CO's head. There was a point where he was against a wall and literally all he could see was a sea of Charlies all demanding he lift the ban on shotguns. Icly, he had no reason to believe they wouldn't just kill him and put the XO, who made it clear he disliked the ban, in charge and they walked in without the MPs knowing what was happening. I choose to believe that either, icly, they were completely insane or too dense to understand the situation and therefore not fit for command or, oocly, knew the Charlies couldn't actually do anything if he said "no." I seriously, desperately hope it's the former reason...

[Sir Lordington]

I'll be pulling the logs for this in the evening. Keep posts here to witness statements (IE, saying what you saw), not opinions. This isn't a discussion topic to debate the viability of shotguns or rifles or whether a weapon should be restricted.

[Bancrose]

Yumi Shibanuma wasn't the Charlie SO, I was. Yumi did, however, call for marines to kill MPs, so the arrest was valid. The methods used to do so? Not so much.

The MP you're talking about, Alan Jones, was on the frontline in marine armor because he attacked another SO and the XO, who at this point was the aCO, so that he could steal the CO's ID from them. CMP was informed of this and neither they nor any of the other MPs responded. Alan Jones insisted that the aCO didn't need the CO's ID, but if my understanding of Rule 17 is correct, the aCO is the only person that has any RP reason to grab the dead CO's ID when the Almayer isn't under attack. The SO that retrieved it from the CO's body even explicitly stated after it was stolen from them that they retrieved it to give to the XO.

Honestly, the more I look at it, the more I start to wonder what was going through the CO's head. There was a point where he was against a wall and literally all he could see was a sea of Charlies all demanding he lift the ban on shotguns. Icly, he had no reason to believe they wouldn't just kill him and put the XO, who made it clear he disliked the ban, in charge and they walked in without the MPs knowing what was happening. I choose to believe that either, icly, they were completely insane or too dense to understand the situation and therefore not fit for command or, oocly, knew the Charlies couldn't actually do anything if he said "no." I seriously, desperately hope it's the former reason...

I'll my post so its not inaccurate, thank you for clearing that up.

[RobBrown4PM]

Yumi Shibanuma wasn't the Charlie SO, I was. Yumi did, however, call for marines to kill MPs, so the arrest was valid. The methods used to do so? Not so much.

The MP you're talking about, Alan Jones, was on the frontline in marine armor because he attacked another SO and the XO, who at this point was the aCO, so that he could steal the CO's ID from them. CMP was informed of this and neither they nor any of the other MPs responded. Alan Jones insisted that the aCO didn't need the CO's ID, but if my understanding of Rule 17 is correct, the aCO is the only person that has any RP reason to grab the dead CO's ID when the Almayer isn't under attack. The SO that retrieved it from the CO's body even explicitly stated after it was stolen from them that they retrieved it to give to the XO.

Honestly, the more I look at it, the more I start to wonder what was going through the CO's head. There was a point where he was against a wall and literally all he could see was a sea of Charlies all demanding he lift the ban on shotguns. Icly, he had no reason to believe they wouldn't just kill him and put the XO, who made it clear he disliked the ban, in charge and they walked in without the MPs knowing what was happening. I choose to believe that either, icly, they were completely insane or too dense to understand the situation and therefore not fit for command or, oocly, knew the Charlies couldn't actually do anything if he said "no." I seriously, desperately hope it's the former reason...

Alan Jones was ordered to be arrested by myself for insub, theft and neglect of duty. I input the data into the security records myself and made several announcements over :P that he was to arrested. Unfortunately, he had gone planetside by this time. Sometime later he was reported KIA by a PO I believe. I didn't have the men to go planetside to nab him.

I seriously dislike it being said I did x, y, a when I clearly didn't.

As for Yuri, she litterally threatened to shoot me in the nether regions after coming into the brig and demanding I do x, y, z. I informed her that I was arresting her for assault. When another MP and I cornered her, she opened up on me with a 9mm. She was taken into custody without further incident.

Oh, and she did call for the ship to kill the MP's, which made our jobs that much harder.

[Blade2000Br]

Yumi Shibanuma wasn't the Charlie SO, I was. Yumi did, however, call for marines to kill MPs, so the arrest was valid. The methods used to do so? Not so much.

The MP you're talking about, Alan Jones, was on the frontline in marine armor because he attacked another SO and the XO, who at this point was the aCO, so that he could steal the CO's ID from them. CMP was informed of this and neither they nor any of the other MPs responded. Alan Jones insisted that the aCO didn't need the CO's ID, but if my understanding of Rule 17 is correct, the aCO is the only person that has any RP reason to grab the dead CO's ID when the Almayer isn't under attack. The SO that retrieved it from the CO's body even explicitly stated after it was stolen from them that they retrieved it to give to the XO.

Honestly, the more I look at it, the more I start to wonder what was going through the CO's head. There was a point where he was against a wall and literally all he could see was a sea of Charlies all demanding he lift the ban on shotguns. Icly, he had no reason to believe they wouldn't just kill him and put the XO, who made it clear he disliked the ban, in charge and they walked in without the MPs knowing what was happening. I choose to believe that either, icly, they were completely insane or too dense to understand the situation and therefore not fit for command or, oocly, knew the Charlies couldn't actually do anything if he said "no." I seriously, desperately hope it's the former reason...

Ok, Since you think I was insane, I will chime in to say I actually expected Charlie to just blast me off. I legit was, OOC, scared Charlie would blaster me to smitherins and be done with it. If I was killed, My Character IC would have reacted very differently.

But since Charlie punched me, pumped their shotguns and stolen my stuff, my CO was more angry IC than scared from the sheer abuse of the Charlie squad. So much that you can see that his actions after the XO unbanning the shotguns was get Charlie for questioning so he could know who he would punish for sedition and who would be free for not having anything to do with the mutiny.

You can see when Lord's pull the logs, that I never actually intended to BE anyone IC without having hard proof. I tried to BE the Bravo SL for opening fire agaisn't Charlie, the same squad that mutinned agaisn't me...go figure, but since the shotgun was with safety on I just gave up on it.

The Only BE I actually performed was on Brig when the smartgunner of Charlie when he broke inside brig and was together with the other Charlies breaking to get the perma Charlies out of brig. It was that moment the Charlie medic run to me and beheaded me with an accidental slug shot.

In no moment I expected to not be killed. Hell, the moment Charlie break inside CIC I was sweating cold for expecting my entire CIC gunned down.

[RobBrown4PM]

I also believe I saw the CMP and another MP beat the Charlie SO Yumi Shibanuma with a Harmbaton in perma while she was in a straightjacket , This is also the woman who ordered people to kill all MPs.

The bold is a very serious allegation. Can I ask that the logs showing me harm batoning a straight jacketed prisoner be posted here.

Heinz, I never harm batoned anyone in a straight jacket. Hell, I'm 99.9% sure I never harm batoned anyone the entire round. I was shot at and put into crit twice, both times I acted with non-lethal force.

This is a very serious accusation, and I humbly ask that rule 5 of this forum be taken into consideration.

[FGRSentinel]

Ok, Since you think I was insane, I will chime in to say I actually expected Charlie to just blast me off. I legit was, OOC, scared Charlie would blaster me to smitherins and be done with it. If I was killed, My Character IC would have reacted very differently.
In no moment I expected to not be killed. Hell, the moment Charlie break inside CIC I was sweating cold for expecting my entire CIC gunned down.

Honestly I know what you mean, when I gave the Charlie SL the signal to come up, I honestly got worried when they swarmed you that half the CIC would be wiped out. Once they started pumping shotguns, I realized that none of them had loaded guns out and it suddenly became hilarious. It makes all your actions after come across as unhinged though since at this point it should have been obvious that the MPs wouldn't really have the ability to contain the situation. The entire mutiny was pretty damn peaceful up until Bravo stormed in and started gunning people down. This doesn't, however, address the issue that your ic orders after the incident were used by the MPs to deny wounded treatment and some people were actually arrested for following server rules if my understanding of the situation is correct. I can't tell for certain since I was limping to Medbay at the time a Charlie medic was begging me to find out why they were being arrested for treating wounded in the CIC, but when I attempted to get an answer all I got in response was the patent silence the CMP gave us the entire round. Speaking of...

Alan Jones was ordered to be arrested by myself for insub, theft and neglect of duty. I input the data into the security records myself and made several announcements over :P that he was to arrested. Unfortunately, he had gone planetside by this time. Sometime later he was reported KIA by a PO I believe. I didn't have the men to go planetside to nab him.

I seriously dislike it being said I did x, y, a when I clearly didn't.

As for Yuri, she litterally threatened to shoot me in the nether regions after coming into the brig and demanding I do x, y, z. I informed her that I was arresting her for assault. When another MP and I cornered her, she opened up on me with a 9mm. She was taken into custody without further incident.

Oh, and she did call for the ship to kill the MP's, which made our jobs that much harder.

SOs don't have access to the MP comms channel and you gave no indication on :v or any other channel we have access to that you heard our report about Alan Jones until long after he died. XO might have had the comms channel, but I'm not sure. It seems to be a thing with MPs and CMPs to forget that only a small number of people actually have access to their comms. In this case, you have to understand that we're going by what we saw and heard, which means that, to most of the people who are reporting the CO and MPs involved, :P may as well not exist from their perspective. You can say you didn't ignore us, but we don't know what happened in :P chat because we weren't informed anything was being done. In a game like this one, communication is everything and failure to communicate is the kind of thing that gets people killed.

As for Yuri, I explictly said that "they ordered people to kill MPs, so the arrest was valid" when correcting the statement I was referring to.

[Musely]

Rex Texas managed to double someones time who already had a timer going
Not entirely sure it was him but I was told later that it was most likely him so take that as you will.

Nope, never happened.

[FGRSentinel]

Yeah, sorry Rex, but every report of MPs overstepping that I remember hearing as Charlie SO had your name attached to it. Unless you were literally the only MP doing arrests after the mutiny (which I know was false) there's not much other reason for why none of the others were mentioned. You even pulled a taser on me when I went to ask the CMP to send a report to HC about the incident and tried to accuse me of insub and that taser didn't go away until I left the room, even when I stated my intent to follow the orders given to me. It seemed to me like you were looking for any excuse to escalate a barely-cooling situation back to open mutiny, or at least to brig as many people as you could. Honestly I probably would have asked the CL to send a pair of complaints to HC and the Provost Marshall if I had a chance to since by that point it was clear both the CO and MPs were out of control.

[Lorem123]

Yeah, sorry Rex, but every report of MPs overstepping that I remember hearing as Charlie SO had your name attached to it. Unless you were literally the only MP doing arrests after the mutiny (which I know was false) there's not much other reason for why none of the others were mentioned. You even pulled a taser on me when I went to ask the CMP to send a report to HC about the incident and tried to accuse me of insub and that taser didn't go away until I left the room, even when I stated my intent to follow the orders given to me. It seemed to me like you were looking for any excuse to escalate a barely-cooling situation back to open mutiny, or at least to brig as many people as you could. Honestly I probably would have asked the CL to send a pair of complaints to HC and the Provost Marshall if I had a chance to since by that point it was clear both the CO and MPs were out of control.

There's a reason I shot him in the head when he went to arrest a Charlie marine that JUST got out of perma. He was blatantly griefing the entire round along with the CO and CMP and needed to be put down so that people could actually play Colonial Marines and not 'Rex Texas's Justice Boner Simulation'.

[Chaznoodles]

I legit was, OOC, scared

the moment Charlie break inside CIC I was sweating cold

I think you need to either take a break from SS13, or stop overexaggerating so much.

I'd once again like to summarise that the CO attempted to use HighCom as an excuse to wave his 'no shotguns' order through, assuming people would accept it because HighCom is admins. As a member of staff, this is EXTREMELY bad form. Also, as a member of staff, the CO must have witnessed other COs and the leadups to mutinies so would know how to avoid or defuse them. He was given multiple chances to do this - In briefing, in the CIC, in the Brig - and took none of them, showing his intent to continue riling up marines and disrupt the round. At no point has he made any intent to disprove this, and multiple posts by those who took part in the round all link together and confirm his behaviour.

I'd also like to take this moment to pull in the thread here - https://cm-ss13.com/viewtopic.php?f=64&t=18006 - to take a closer look at Alan Jones' behaviour ICly and OOCly regarding his conduct this round.

[Omicega]

Posting here as a character witness for Rex Texas specifically.

I've been arrested by Rex about five or six times over the last couple of days - most of them in one four hour long CT round. I have zero problems with any of the arrests - I was more or less asking for all of them and didn't see any procedure breaks levelled at me personally.

This is more speculation than anything else, but I wouldn't be surprised if a whole ton of the recent MP related issues (not specific to this report, but in general over the past few weeks) stem from a lack of people's ability to distinguish between OOC and IC. I think Texas plays a character who is an asshole, but every time I've had to deal with Musely in an OOC manner I haven't seen any of that bleeding through from how he plays his character.

Consider this my two cents as someone who pretty much never gets brigged except when I specifically go looking for it (or when some prick SO reports me for insub), and as someone who takes getting brig time in their stride. Speaking from personal experience (and from being able to see every ahelp that gets submitted), it's no great secret that a significant portion (not sure whether it's a minority or majority, honestly) of players will smash that F1 button the second an MP so much as breathes in their direction.

I can't speak for the round that this report pertains to specifically as I wasn't observing for the vast majority of it and saw nothing related to how MP procedures and behaviour went down in it, but rule 2 alleges that character witnesses are welcome, so here I am.

[Nickvr628]

I can confirm as another SO that Rex was involved in almost all the incidents reported by the other players. I had to stop myself from shooting him when he kept batoning the medic trying to Defib an SL because I was fed up with him griefing the marines.

[Bancrose]

Nope, never happened.

Are you Rex by chance? I just saw a few people saying your name in dchat so maybe that was an assumption. I'll remove that part.

[FGRSentinel]

I think it might be worth noting that by the time the CO was finally killed, three of four SOs were mutineers (or at least against the CO and MPs) and the XO was unofficially aCO for about 20+ minutes. CIC was squarely in the hands of the mutineers while the CO and last Pro-CO LT more or less vanished from the CIC for the rest of the round. The only reason the mutiny wasn't 100% successful is because the CO refused to accept that he was overthrown, the MPs were unwilling to back down or contact HC, and the CIC staff was too busy trying to contain the situation to stop and talk about how exactly we make the mutiny's success official while the CO was still alive and refused to accept the situation on top of trying desperately to coordinate on the ground when we have any spare time. After Charlie got to the CIC and captured the Commander, the rest of the mutiny was more or less the mutineers in CIC trying to deescalate the situation, the MPs or CO doing something to escalate things again, and the mutineers in Charlie responding. The problem is, with no defined "success" conditions for a mutiny, at least regarding how to overthrow a CO that refuses to step down without killing him, a mutiny that realistically should end in five minutes can, as seen here, stretch on for more than half an hour.

I'm looking at it and I'm not sure what we could have done. Made an announcement stating that the CO had been removed from command the moment Charlie swarmed the bridge? CMP would have still sent MPs after us and Bravo's SO would probably have still sent Bravo. Even if we managed to fight them off we'd be required to let them lick their wounds and swarm us again until they freed the CO. Should we have faxed HC? Even if HC didn't send a special forces unit to take down the mutineers (which they realistically would if the Commander wasn't shown to be guilty of sedition like we accused him of) that still requires the CMP and MPs to both acknowledge the announcement and take it as true, which considering everything else that happened in the round (including the CMP either being too overwhelmed by everything going on to notice or outright ignoring demands for answers to reports and accusations that included MPs breaking mutiny rules) I have little faith that this would have ended it either. The round was more or less doomed to a marine defeat before the CO was accidentally decapitated and the more aggressive MPs permakilled, at which point Charlie could actually deploy without being harassed. Even then it was still too late to save the Op, though...

[Musely]

Are you Rex by chance? I just saw a few people saying your name in dchat so maybe that was an assumption. I'll remove that part.

Yeah that's me, it's all good.

[RobBrown4PM]

Honestly I know what you mean, when I gave the Charlie SL the signal to come up, I honestly got worried when they swarmed you that half the CIC would be wiped out. Once they started pumping shotguns, I realized that none of them had loaded guns out and it suddenly became hilarious. It makes all your actions after come across as unhinged though since at this point it should have been obvious that the MPs wouldn't really have the ability to contain the situation. The entire mutiny was pretty damn peaceful up until Bravo stormed in and started gunning people down. This doesn't, however, address the issue that your ic orders after the incident were used by the MPs to deny wounded treatment and some people were actually arrested for following server rules if my understanding of the situation is correct. I can't tell for certain since I was limping to Medbay at the time a Charlie medic was begging me to find out why they were being arrested for treating wounded in the CIC, but when I attempted to get an answer all I got in response was the patent silence the CMP gave us the entire round. Speaking of...



SOs don't have access to the MP comms channel and you gave no indication on :v or any other channel we have access to that you heard our report about Alan Jones until long after he died. XO might have had the comms channel, but I'm not sure. It seems to be a thing with MPs and CMPs to forget that only a small number of people actually have access to their comms. In this case, you have to understand that we're going by what we saw and heard, which means that, to most of the people who are reporting the CO and MPs involved, :P may as well not exist from their perspective. You can say you didn't ignore us, but we don't know what happened in :P chat because we weren't informed anything was being done. In a game like this one, communication is everything and failure to communicate is the kind of thing that gets people killed.

As for Yuri, I explictly said that "they ordered people to kill MPs, so the arrest was valid" when correcting the statement I was referring to.

I'm pretty certain I made it aware over the command channel that he was to be arrested. In fact, I remember someone, either an LT or the XO demanding I arrest Jones. I asked why and got the charges and subsequently agreed to it.

So yes, I did acknowledge Jones' crimes, and yes I did place a notice of arrest out on him. Heck I even tried communicating with him telling him he needs to turn himself in.

[Sir Lordington]

This is going to take a while due to the sheer amount of logs and people involved, so try not to clutter this too much with discussion. If you post as a witness, state your identity and role in the whole thing and make your statement as clear and concise as you can to make my job easier.

Thank you.