Player Report William 'Jester' Crimson

[BobatNight]

Your Byond Key: bobatnight

Your Character Name: Sal 'Spaghetti' Spanelli

Accused Byond Key(if known): unknown

Character Name: William 'Jester' Crimson

Approximate time and date of the incident (Central US Time for fastest results): 3:45pm Eastern, 7/22

What rule(s) were broken: Rules 2/3, Marine law

Description of the incident: As the Corporate Liason I ran into a survivor in the Med Bay, after a brief discussion in my office we headed to the CiC to request an ID with Med Bay access for the survivor doctor. A second survivor entered after us thru the opened doors and was present for the entirety of the incident. After requesting IDs made from the XO, I was informed to make them myself and took the survivors to the console where I managed to finish 1 before the MPs entered. Upon entering the CiC they quickly detained and searched the survivors to my protest, during the search the CMP Crimson found a pistol inside the backpack of a survivor. After an argument the CMP decided to take the search to the brig where I followed after.

At no point was I told not to follow or to leave the brig, I tossed a survivor's backpack in the holding area as the Mps had left it in the CiC. Shortly after I was approached by the MP Lillian and informed I was being detained for trespassing. After disputing it I discovered it was for bringing survivors to the CiC, as the Liason. This is 100% standard practice, debrief and escort to IDs being made. After Ahelping and receiving a reply from awan he even admitted that as I have access to the CiC, I cannot be trespassing. This was later disputed by Solarmare who said it was a legit arrest for trespass as I had allowed entry to an area they didn't have access to.

Shortly after the Ahelp by charge was changed to neglect of duty, reasoning being that I'd allowed armed survivors onto the CIC. It is not the Liason's duty to search survivors, the MPs had warning that survivors were found and being brought up, if they failed to intercept them on the Alamo then they need to be brigging themselves, not the Liason.
Staff had also suggested (awan/mentors or mods) that I tried to stop the arrests of the survivors, at no time did I walk into or shove the MPs. I protested verbally. The XO told me to make their IDs myself, they were not trespassing. If the CMP had conducted a simple interview or investigation into his own claims, he would have discovered I was allowed into the area with the survivors to have their IDs made.

I'd also like to draw attention to my Ahelps and wish for the full conversations between awan/solare and myself be posted as they show the sort of logic that was used by Crimson in this situation I believe.
Evidence (screenshots, logs, etc):Logs

How you would punish the accused: At this point I believe the community would be better off if Crimson was job banned from the MP force, he has in the past been the subject of player reports for violations of Marine law, and he has proven his inability at this point to enforce Marine law objectively fairly. His actions disrupting the round for many players.

edited: Edited format slightly to make it easier on the eyes

[solidfury7]

Alright, let me explain this.

You were detained for trespass, as you allowed two colonists to enter the CIC without first being cleared by the military police, and as a consequence, they were found to be armed. So, this was an issue of you letting someone else in to an unauthorised area without due process, after I announced over the radio that any colonists/survivors seen should be announced to the military police so we could pick them up and process them.

Now, I could have slapped you with three charges, disordely conduct, neglect of duty and tresspass. I decided to give you the tresspass charge as it allowed me to give you a shorter time than the other two charges because I believed your actiosn were not malicious, merely incompetent. Before setting the time and a brief stint of speaking with the admins about it, it was changed to neglect of duty because Awan was waiting for clarification from Sirlordington on this matter (It was later ruled legitimate)

So, I find it slightly bemusing that you'd claim I was trying to grief you, or be a dick, when I gave you an extremely lenient charge, (10 minutes, nearly minimum for the tresspass, before it was changed to the MINIMUM of neglect of duty) on purpose, rather than the other charges which would have more solid and applicable.


You are slightly shooting yourself in the foot, as you are stating that "it is the duty of the Military Police to search survivors.", now, that is correct. It is also our duty to process the survivors, as this is a security issue. If you wish to know, I did issue the order almost immediately after hearing about the colonists for someone to intercept them, and I even took a stint of looking for them myself before announcing publicly that the colonists were missing. So, you're admitting that it is our duty to deal with the survivors, but are claiming because we didnt instantly sweep them up (We had 2 MPs, one of them being new), you were authorised to interfere with our duties.

Your comments regarding how my "actions disrupted the round for many players.", first of all, this situation involved 3 non MPs, one being yourself, the other two being survivors. One of the survivors was released nearly immediately after a brief interview and a chat, just to ensure he wasn't CLF or anything which could pose a threat. The other suspect was very reluctant to even talk to the MPs, so he was held for about 5 minutes longer than the other colonist (who convinced him to tell us about the situation on the colony and his work on the colony).

Now that is a total of three players, one of them being extremely friendly and pally with the MPs, he was even trying to get me to give him another MPs numbers and joking about it.

So, you got two people involved here. A Liason who interfered with a Military Police protocol and processing of a survivor, while the MPs are sweeping the ship looking for them, leading to a weapon being brought to the MOST CRITICAL place in the vessel by a potential CLF/Insurgenant/UnknownPerson.

And a colonist who didnt wish to co-operate with basic questioning from the MPs. I personally don't see this as being a situation which has impacted the round for "many players" or even a handful.

The Corporate Liason is a High Roleplay role, The WO is a high roleplay role, I find it puzzling that you're complaining about the fact I roleplayed to the same extent that is expected of me.

Bonus picture: https://i.imgur.com/gDEdh3S.png
The following round, this is what happened.With a max population MP force, the MPs missed the colonists coming off the dropship, they were found in medical, brought to the brig, interrogated and searched before given IDs. That is how it normally goes.

[BobatNight]

I allowed 1 colonist to enter who I was debriefing, the other followed inside. Only 1 colonist was found to be armed with a pistol hidden in their backpack. You also told Awan I was arrested for entering the Brig, this can be confirmed by logs.

I'm referring to actions in the past.

The MPs had warning that survivors were inbound, I cannot help that you failed to intercept them on the Alamo. I was never aware of any announcements to alert the Mps to the survivors positions.

I was brigged for 15 minutes, not 10.

Nobody interfered with your duties, I took a debriefed survivor to the CIC and was told by the XO to make him his ID.

I was officially charged with Neglect of Duty, which again can be confirmed by the logs.

No-one interfered with the MPs, I did what any CL would do when encountering survivors from the Colony. I at no time tried to physically stop the detainment from happening, nor did I aid or assist anyone in concealing a weapon.

[Lorem123]

I was the RO for this round, so I saw and heard a good amount of what happened here. The MPs did fail to strip the survivors of weapons, and they were just using it as an excuse to arrest the CL. I am pretty sure I saw the XO saying that it was perfectly fine for the CL to bring the survivors to the CIC for ID updates.
This is 100% on the MPs for failing to do their jobs, IC they were trying to push the blame on the CL and OOC it seems to be the same.

[solidfury7]

I allowed 1 colonist to enter who I was debriefing, the other followed inside. Only 1 colonist was found to be armed with a pistol hidden in their backpack. You also told Awan I was arrested for entering the Brig, this can be confirmed by logs.

I'm referring to actions in the past.

The MPs had warning that survivors were inbound, I cannot help that you failed to intercept them on the Alamo. I was never aware of any announcements to alert the Mps to the survivors positions.

I was brigged for 15 minutes, not 10.

Nobody interfered with your duties, I took a debriefed survivor to the CIC and was told by the XO to make him his ID.

I was officially charged with Neglect of Duty, which again can be confirmed by the logs.

No-one interfered with the MPs, I did what any CL would do when encountering survivors from the Colony. I at no time tried to physically stop the detainment from happening, nor did I aid or assist anyone in concealing a weapon.

1# You weren't arrested for entering the brig, that would be ridiculous and any one of the admin team would of likely called me out on that. Hell, I call people out for that both ICly and as a mentor.

2# You're argument is "I took this in to my own hands" and then blaming us for being unable to search and process them because you took them. You literally caused the problem.

3# As I stated, your original time was going to be 10, until an admin notified me the charge should be something more concrete until they clarified the situation, so it was altered to the minimum of neglect of duty, as I stated and explained in the previous post.


4#: You did not aid anyone concealing a weapon, however, your incompetence and failure to follow procedure resulted in a deadly weapon being taken to the CIC, a place where the Commander and the whole control of the ship is located. That is a huge security risk you created. All because you thought the MPs weren't at the dropship as fast as you'd like.

I was the RO for this round, so I saw and heard a good amount of what happened here. The MPs did fail to strip the survivors of weapons, and they were just using it as an excuse to arrest the CL. I am pretty sure I saw the XO saying that it was perfectly fine for the CL to bring the survivors to the CIC for ID updates.
This is 100% on the MPs for failing to do their jobs, IC they were trying to push the blame on the CL and OOC it seems to be the same.

With all due respect, you literally spent three rounds griefing the MPs in a row, before you were banned for killing an MP who was trying to arrest you, because he pulled out a tear gas launcher. So, I'm not surprised you're going to make a "100%" claim saying that the MPs are at fault, for a situation which was nearly entirely said in person between 4 people, other than a brief argument over comms.

If you want to back up your claims and say you were hiding in the security cupboard, be my guest. But you literally saw nothing and heard a brief argument over comms, as I stated.



---------------------

Regardless, I'm going to wait for the logs and screenshots to be posted in before ending up in an argument which goes in circles.

[BobatNight]

I'll wait for logs as I've already stated what has happened. I didn't take anything into my own hands, I simply did what every CL does.

This is a flimsy justification for breaking rules 2/3 and Marine law.

As stated I was told by the XO to do this as well as the CO telling you he had no issue with it.

Edit: I'd also like to add that the MPs demonstrated incompetence in allowing 3 survivors to freely roam the Almayer without being searched, not myself.

[Omicega]

All speech logs for Jester & Spaghetti during the approximate period relating to the report (this is everything they said, maybe to others as well - not just what they said to each other as I can't piece that together from logs, really)

► Show Spoiler

[14:25:15]SAY: William 'Jester' Crimson/SolidFury7 : MPs, relocate to CIC
[14:25:20]SAY: William 'Jester' Crimson/SolidFury7 : Colonists, face the wall, please
[14:25:35]SAY: Sal 'Spaghetti' Spanelli/BobatNight : Wel-
[14:25:37]SAY: Sal 'Spaghetti' Spanelli/BobatNight : Hey now!
[14:25:41]SAY: William 'Jester' Crimson/SolidFury7 : Cuff them, and search them
[14:25:46]SAY: Sal 'Spaghetti' Spanelli/BobatNight : This isn't necessary.
[14:25:58]SAY: Sal 'Spaghetti' Spanelli/BobatNight : Youse' don't needa' hassle these boys after their experience.
[14:26:35]SAY: William 'Jester' Crimson/SolidFury7 : Denied.
[14:26:46]SAY: William 'Jester' Crimson/SolidFury7 : Liason
[14:26:49]SAY: William 'Jester' Crimson/SolidFury7 : You incompetent ape
[14:26:52]SAY: Sal 'Spaghetti' Spanelli/BobatNight : The hell is this?
[14:26:59]SAY: William 'Jester' Crimson/SolidFury7 : You brought armed civilians in to the CIC
[14:27:04]SAY: William 'Jester' Crimson/SolidFury7 : Without fucking restraints or MPs
[14:27:05]SAY: Sal 'Spaghetti' Spanelli/BobatNight : Youse' let them wander around.
[14:27:11]SAY: Sal 'Spaghetti' Spanelli/BobatNight : That's the fuckin' incompitence of your MP force.
[14:27:16]SAY: William 'Jester' Crimson/SolidFury7 : I want another MP topside, now
[14:27:19]SAY: Sal 'Spaghetti' Spanelli/BobatNight : Who was pre-warned survivors were found an' bein' brought up.
[14:27:32]SAY: Sal 'Spaghetti' Spanelli/BobatNight : We'se ain't responsible for youse' not bein' able to perform your job.
[14:27:37]SAY: William 'Jester' Crimson/SolidFury7 : All MPs get to the fucking CIC or be detained for neglect
[14:27:52]SAY: William 'Jester' Crimson/SolidFury7 : Grab the colonist
[14:27:57]SAY: William 'Jester' Crimson/SolidFury7 : They're going to the brig to continue the search
[14:28:29]SAY: William 'Jester' Crimson/SolidFury7 : Lillian
[14:28:43]SAY: William 'Jester' Crimson/SolidFury7 : Detain the CL
[14:29:07]SAY: Sal 'Spaghetti' Spanelli/BobatNight : For what?
[14:29:18]SAY: William 'Jester' Crimson/SolidFury7 : CL is to be detained for tresspass
[14:29:27]SAY: Sal 'Spaghetti' Spanelli/BobatNight : Nobody told me not to enter.
[14:29:29]SAY: William 'Jester' Crimson/SolidFury7 : For aiding the tresspass of two colonists in the CIC
[14:29:32]SAY: Sal 'Spaghetti' Spanelli/BobatNight : That's pretty ridiculous.
[14:29:39]SAY: Sal 'Spaghetti' Spanelli/BobatNight : Really.
[14:29:46]SAY: Sal 'Spaghetti' Spanelli/BobatNight : That's absolutely retarded.
[14:30:11]SAY: William 'Jester' Crimson/SolidFury7 : The Commander is busy
[14:30:19]SAY: William 'Jester' Crimson/SolidFury7 : Place him in a cell, Lillian
[14:30:24]SAY: Sal 'Spaghetti' Spanelli/BobatNight : Youse' never told me not to enter.'
[14:30:27]SAY: William 'Jester' Crimson/SolidFury7 : Charge is tresspass.
[14:30:34]SAY: Sal 'Spaghetti' Spanelli/BobatNight : Completely fuckin' ridiculous.
[14:30:35]SAY: William 'Jester' Crimson/SolidFury7 : For allowing armed civilians in to the CIC
[14:30:47]SAY: Sal 'Spaghetti' Spanelli/BobatNight : Youse' let them run around.
[14:30:48]SAY: Sal 'Spaghetti' Spanelli/BobatNight : Not me.
[14:30:49]SAY: William 'Jester' Crimson/SolidFury7 : Huffie
[14:30:53]SAY: William 'Jester' Crimson/SolidFury7 : Interrogate the colonists
[14:31:30]SAY: William 'Jester' Crimson/SolidFury7 : Why did you give the colonists command headsets?
[14:34:36]SAY: William 'Jester' Crimson/SolidFury7 : Alright, I'll wait for confirmation from the Provost on this.
[14:35:59]SAY: William 'Jester' Crimson/SolidFury7 : Seperate the colonists, interrogate them in a seperate isolation room each
[14:36:04]SAY: William 'Jester' Crimson/SolidFury7 : See if they talk then
[14:36:08]SAY: William 'Jester' Crimson/SolidFury7 : Alright
[14:36:21]SAY: William 'Jester' Crimson/SolidFury7 : Pending further investigation, we are altering your charge
[14:36:26]SAY: Sal 'Spaghetti' Spanelli/BobatNight : Oh boy.
[14:36:29]SAY: Sal 'Spaghetti' Spanelli/BobatNight : Gee willickers.
[14:36:37]SAY: William 'Jester' Crimson/SolidFury7 : As you have technically have breached multiple.
[14:36:56]SAY: William 'Jester' Crimson/SolidFury7 : Your charge is upgraded to neglect of duty.
[14:37:00]SAY: William 'Jester' Crimson/SolidFury7 : Apologies about the confusion
[14:37:15]SAY: William 'Jester' Crimson/SolidFury7 : Not yet, we're very busy.
[14:37:33]SAY: William 'Jester' Crimson/SolidFury7 : Lads.
[14:37:35]SAY: William 'Jester' Crimson/SolidFury7 : Listen.
[14:37:41]SAY: William 'Jester' Crimson/SolidFury7 : You'll be treated fairly.
[14:37:55]SAY: William 'Jester' Crimson/SolidFury7 : However we do need you to explain the situation
[14:38:05]SAY: William 'Jester' Crimson/SolidFury7 : The reason we had to cuff you, is because you boys are unknown civilians, right?
[14:38:08]SAY: William 'Jester' Crimson/SolidFury7 : And you were armed.
[14:38:23]SAY: William 'Jester' Crimson/SolidFury7 : Commander is busy, CL is in detainment for breaching protocol
[14:38:30]SAY: William 'Jester' Crimson/SolidFury7 : I can arrange your safe passage or evacuation
[14:38:42]SAY: William 'Jester' Crimson/SolidFury7 : Get Josh Morris moved and interrogated
[14:38:51]SAY: Sal 'Spaghetti' Spanelli/BobatNight : There's so many different ways that this is wrong an' ridiculous that I can't even list them all.

PMs between Bobatnight and staff:

► Show Spoiler

[14:31:12]ADMIN: HELP: BobatNight/(Sal 'Spaghetti' Spanelli): Being charged with tresspassing over taking Survivors to CiC for IDs. - heard by 8 non-AFK admins.

[14:31:44]ADMIN: PM: Awan/(Patton Martinez)->BobatNight/(Sal 'Spaghetti' Spanelli): You have access to cic. So it would not be correct.
[14:31:53]ADMIN: PM: BobatNight/(Sal 'Spaghetti' Spanelli)->Awan/(Patton Martinez): Explain that to Crimson please.
[14:32:51]ADMIN: PM: Awan/(Patton Martinez)->BobatNight/(Sal 'Spaghetti' Spanelli): Tresspassing is because you were in the brig.
[14:33:05]ADMIN: PM: BobatNight/(Sal 'Spaghetti' Spanelli)->Awan/(Patton Martinez): Check the logs he said because I brought the Colonists to CiC.
[14:33:27]ADMIN: PM: BobatNight/(Sal 'Spaghetti' Spanelli)->Awan/(Patton Martinez): WO William 'Jester' Crimson says, "For allowing armed civilians in to the CIC"
[14:34:03]ADMIN: PM: BobatNight/(Sal 'Spaghetti' Spanelli)->Awan/(Patton Martinez): A survivor had a pistol in his backpack, unknown to me. He came in, immediatly cuffed then survivors and arrested them. Then had me detained for allowing them into the CiC, I was making their IDs.
[14:35:17]ADMIN: PM: BobatNight/(Sal 'Spaghetti' Spanelli)->Awan/(Patton Martinez): He also never asked me to leave the Brig or not follow them inside, even though there was 3 seperate doors I have no access to that he could have at any time shut.
[14:36:40]ADMIN: PM: Awan/(Patton Martinez)->BobatNight/(Sal 'Spaghetti' Spanelli): I gotta ask anyways cause mp's do not have to even follow marine law at this time anymore.
[14:37:10]ADMIN: PM: BobatNight/(Sal 'Spaghetti' Spanelli)->Awan/(Patton Martinez): Now I'm being charged with neglect of duty?
[14:37:32]ADMIN: PM: BobatNight/(Sal 'Spaghetti' Spanelli)->Awan/(Patton Martinez): I'll make a player report after this round, this is silly.
[14:37:35]ADMIN: PM: Awan/(Patton Martinez)->BobatNight/(Sal 'Spaghetti' Spanelli): I am trying to get confirmation from the admins. In specific sirlordington.
[14:38:48]ADMIN: PM: Awan/(Patton Martinez)->BobatNight/(Sal 'Spaghetti' Spanelli): See, it is no longer an ooc rule for mp's to follow marine law. The only thing I got told about it is if they are griefing or being an intentional dick they should be punished. In this case you did let armed civilians into the brig and my fellow mods say you might have helped them evade the mp's.
[14:39:27]ADMIN: PM: Awan/(Patton Martinez)->Solarmare/(Kane Laborde): what do you think?
[14:39:48]ADMIN: PM: BobatNight/(Sal 'Spaghetti' Spanelli)->Awan/(Patton Martinez): It's not my job to search them, he was a doctor that I was going to have help Med bay. The arrests all happened next to the ID console where I never walked into anyone or shoved anyone. This is pretty bad, so I'm going to make a player report.
[14:40:10]ADMIN: PM: BobatNight/(Sal 'Spaghetti' Spanelli)->Awan/(Patton Martinez): Have a CM day!
[14:40:53]ADMIN: PM: Awan/(Patton Martinez)->Solarmare/(Kane Laborde): Can I have your opinion?
[14:43:49]ADMIN: PM: Awan/(Patton Martinez)->BobatNight/(Sal 'Spaghetti' Spanelli): You can feel free to disagree. Though the case the cmp makes is that you are also to follow on board procedure. By not following it he can charge you with neglect of duty. And he changed the charge to that from trespassing because I agree it is not tresspassing. You can appeal to the aCO.
[14:45:48]ADMIN: PM: BobatNight/(Sal 'Spaghetti' Spanelli)->Awan/(Patton Martinez): I'm a Liason, what duty am I neglecting again?
[14:46:12]ADMIN: PM: BobatNight/(Sal 'Spaghetti' Spanelli)->Awan/(Patton Martinez): I have access to the CiC, it's not my job to search Civilians.
[14:47:22]ADMIN: PM: Awan/(Patton Martinez)->BobatNight/(Sal 'Spaghetti' Spanelli): Well, neglect of duty does say not following procedure is part of it. Since it is generaly known civilians from the planet should not have weapons you are aiding them in having them.
[14:51:05]ADMIN: PM: BobatNight/(Sal 'Spaghetti' Spanelli)->Awan/(Patton Martinez): Is there a staff member who hasn't had problems with their interpretation of Marine law available?
[14:51:31]ADMIN: PM: Awan/(Patton Martinez)->BobatNight/(Sal 'Spaghetti' Spanelli): Sirlordington is the one who litterly handles this. And I am asking the online senior for their opinion as well.
[14:51:34]ADMIN: PM: Solarmare/(Kane Laborde)->BobatNight/(Sal 'Spaghetti' Spanelli): To wit, you allowed civillians into the cic when you were getting ID's or such?
[14:53:18]ADMIN: PM: BobatNight/(Sal 'Spaghetti' Spanelli)->Solarmare/(Kane Laborde): I brought the 1 Doctor to the CiC to get an ID made, I originally asked the XO and was told I could do it. A 2nd survivor entered, and shortly after the MPs entered and detained the survivors. They found a hand gun on a survivor and we had a verbal altercation about who was at fault for the survivors not getting searched. I followed them to the Brig where I was originally arrested for tresspassing with my charge being changed to Neglect of duty.
[14:55:24]ADMIN: PM: BobatNight/(Sal 'Spaghetti' Spanelli)->Solarmare/(Kane Laborde): I'm the Liason, I have access to the CiC. It's not my duty or job to search survivors, I neglected nothing. The Mps were warned that survivors were found and being brought up.
[14:58:54]ADMIN: PM: Solarmare/(Kane Laborde)->BobatNight/(Sal 'Spaghetti' Spanelli): It's not your duty to search civillains, that also doesn't mean you're free to do things like allowing them into places where they have no access to. Letting people into the CIC when they don't have access to the area isn't something you should be doing, so the first charge of tresspassing was close enough.
[15:00:00]ADMIN: PM: BobatNight/(Sal 'Spaghetti' Spanelli)->Solarmare/(Kane Laborde): I'm definitely going to make a player report as this wasn't handled well in my eyes.
[15:00:33]ADMIN: PM: BobatNight/(Sal 'Spaghetti' Spanelli)->Solarmare/(Kane Laborde): Should I file this under staff report since Crimson is staff?
[15:01:45]ADMIN: PM: Solarmare/(Kane Laborde)->BobatNight/(Sal 'Spaghetti' Spanelli): Letting them inside of the CIC when you have no idea whether they're armed or not is also not a very good idea, to put it simply. Though if you want to make a report a player one is best since staff reports are for matters concerning that specifically such as enforcement.
[15:02:57]ADMIN: PM: BobatNight/(Sal 'Spaghetti' Spanelli)->Solarmare/(Kane Laborde): If you're gonna try and deny that it's not standard practice for the CL to escort survivors to the CiC to have IDs made, then there's nothing else to discuss. Have a CM day!

[BobatNight]

So as we can see from the logs, they very much contradict your statements.

[Lorem123]

Fury, please don't turn this into a personal attack on me due to subjective statements such as 'you were griefing MPs'.
I saw what I saw, which was the MP team failing to follow procedure and then arresting the CL. The logs make significantly clearer for me. I'm just contributing as a witness, since I did hear over comms a good portion of what happened.

[awan]

I have no issues making the pm's between you and me public.
Solid also had no issues with this.
Neither did sirlordington.
I did not confirm solar but I assume it is fine by them.

► Show Spoiler

[14:31:12]ADMIN: HELP: BobatNight/(Sal 'Spaghetti' Spanelli): Being charged with tresspassing over taking Survivors to CiC for IDs. - heard by 8 non-AFK admins.
[14:31:44]ADMIN: PM: Awan/(x)->BobatNight/(Sal 'Spaghetti' Spanelli): You have access to cic. So it would not be correct.
[14:31:53]ADMIN: PM: BobatNight/(Sal 'Spaghetti' Spanelli)->Awan/(x): Explain that to Crimson please.
[14:31:58]ADMIN: Awan/(x) jumped to BobatNight/(Sal 'Spaghetti' Spanelli)
[14:32:08]ADMIN: MOD: Awan/(x) : solid?
[14:32:21]ADMIN: MOD: Awan/(x) : the cl has access to cic
[14:32:24]ADMIN: MOD: */(*) : They were in the brig.
[14:32:27]ADMIN: MOD: Awan/(x) : so how can he tresspass there?
[14:32:48]ADMIN: MOD: SolidFury7/(William 'Jester' Crimson) : The charge isn't for him, it's more so between disordely conduct and tresspass
[14:32:51]ADMIN: PM: Awan/(x)->BobatNight/(Sal 'Spaghetti' Spanelli): Tresspassing is because you were in the brig.
((This was based upon what was said at 14:32:24 seems that was not true.)
[14:33:05]ADMIN: PM: BobatNight/(Sal 'Spaghetti' Spanelli)->Awan/(x): Check the logs he said because I brought the Colonists to CiC.
[14:33:06]ADMIN: MOD: SolidFury7/(William 'Jester' Crimson) : MPs went searching for colonists, sent out a BOL, and CL swiped them and let armed civilians in to CIC, while MPs were asking and searching for em
[14:33:27]ADMIN: PM: BobatNight/(Sal 'Spaghetti' Spanelli)->Awan/(x): WO William 'Jester' Crimson says, "For allowing armed civilians in to the CIC"
[14:33:29]ADMIN: MOD: SolidFury7/(William 'Jester' Crimson) : He was detained because he let armed civilians in to the CIC basically
[14:33:42]ADMIN: MOD: Awan/(x) : but for what charge is he brigged?
[14:33:52]ADMIN: MOD: SolidFury7/(William 'Jester' Crimson) : Well, I thought tresspass is the most fitting.
[14:34:03]ADMIN: PM: BobatNight/(Sal 'Spaghetti' Spanelli)->Awan/(x): A survivor had a pistol in his backpack, unknown to me. He came in, immediatly cuffed then survivors and arrested them. Then had me detained for allowing them into the CiC, I was making their IDs. [14:34:12]ADMIN: MOD: SolidFury7/(William 'Jester' Crimson) : I could hit him with disordely conduct, but I thought I'd be lenient and give him 5-10 mins
[14:34:44]ADMIN: MOD: Awan/(x) : even Neglect of duty would have been fitting as he did not follow procedure.
[14:35:07]ADMIN: MOD: SolidFury7/(William 'Jester' Crimson) : Aye, it's just a tricky because how uh, open ended marine law is atm
[14:35:17]ADMIN: PM: BobatNight/(Sal 'Spaghetti' Spanelli)->Awan/(x): He also never asked me to leave the Brig or not follow them inside, even though there was 3 seperate doors I have no access to that he could have at any time shut.
[14:35:18]ADMIN: MOD: SolidFury7/(William 'Jester' Crimson) : So, is tresspass not valid, for letting them in?
[14:35:33]ADMIN: x : I mean, he did come into the brig
[14:35:34]ADMIN: MOD: Awan/(x) : I gotta ask anyways cause it might have become ic anyways.
[14:36:40]ADMIN: PM: Awan/(x)->BobatNight/(Sal 'Spaghetti' Spanelli): I gotta ask anyways cause mp's do not have to even follow marine law at this time anymore.
[14:37:10]ADMIN: PM: BobatNight/(Sal 'Spaghetti' Spanelli)->Awan/(x): Now I'm being charged with neglect of duty?
[14:37:32]ADMIN: PM: BobatNight/(Sal 'Spaghetti' Spanelli)->Awan/(x): I'll make a player report after this round, this is silly.
[14:37:35]ADMIN: PM: Awan/(x)->BobatNight/(Sal 'Spaghetti' Spanelli): I am trying to get confirmation from the admins. In specific x.
((This because he was involved a lot with the rewrite on marine law.))
[14:38:48]ADMIN: PM: Awan/(x)->BobatNight/(Sal 'Spaghetti' Spanelli): See, it is no longer an ooc rule for mp's to follow marine law. The only thing I got told about it is if they are griefing or being an intentional dick they should be punished. In this case you did let armed civilians into the brig and my fellow mods say you might have helped them evade the mp's.
[14:39:27]ADMIN: PM: Awan/(x)->Solarmare/(x): what do you think?
[14:39:48]ADMIN: PM: BobatNight/(Sal 'Spaghetti' Spanelli)->Awan/(x): It's not my job to search them, he was a doctor that I was going to have help Med bay. The arrests all happened next to the ID console where I never walked into anyone or shoved anyone. This is pretty bad, so I'm going to make a player report.
[14:40:10]ADMIN: PM: BobatNight/(Sal 'Spaghetti' Spanelli)->Awan/(x): Have a CM day!
[14:40:53]ADMIN: PM: Awan/(x)->Solarmare/(x): Can I have your opinion?
[14:43:22]ADMIN: MOD: Solarmare/(x) : what do you need an opinion over
[14:43:49]ADMIN: PM: Awan/(x)->BobatNight/(Sal 'Spaghetti' Spanelli): You can feel free to disagree. Though the case the cmp makes is that you are also to follow on board procedure. By not following it he can charge you with neglect of duty. And he changed the charge to that from trespassing because I agree it is not tresspassing. You can appeal to the aCO.
[14:44:04]ADMIN: MOD: Awan/(x) : well, the cl let armed civilians into cic
[14:44:14]ADMIN: MOD: Awan/(x) : the cmp charged him with trespassing
[14:44:27]ADMIN: MOD: Awan/(x) : But I disagree with that charge. I do agree with disorderly or neglect
[14:44:41]ADMIN: MOD: Awan/(x) : so the cmp made it neglect. But is the CL liable to follow procedure?
[14:45:03]ADMIN: MOD: Solarmare/(x) : If they don't have access and they let people where they shouldn't be you can just charge them with the crime instead
[14:45:05]ADMIN: MOD: Awan/(x) : lordington says as long as it aint grief it is ok
[14:45:15]ADMIN: MOD: Solarmare/(x) : Like if a staff officer tries to order people to assault someone or something eh
[14:45:18]ADMIN: MOD: SolidFury7/(William 'Jester' Crimson) : That was my thought process
[14:45:34]ADMIN: MOD: Solarmare/(x) : NEglect of duty doesn't make sense for people who aren't employed by the uscm
[14:45:44]ADMIN: MOD: Solarmare/(x) : So disorderly conduct at best
[14:45:48]ADMIN: PM: BobatNight/(Sal 'Spaghetti' Spanelli)->Awan/(x): I'm a Liason, what duty am I neglecting again?
[14:46:12]ADMIN: PM: BobatNight/(Sal 'Spaghetti' Spanelli)->Awan/(x): I have access to the CiC, it's not my job to search Civilians.
[14:46:13]ADMIN: MOD: Solarmare/(x) : But that doesn't exactly fit either
[14:47:22]ADMIN: PM: Awan/(x)->BobatNight/(Sal 'Spaghetti' Spanelli): Well, neglect of duty does say not following procedure is part of it. Since it is generaly known civilians from the planet should not have weapons you are aiding them in having them.
[14:47:43]ADMIN: MOD: Solarmare/(x) : I'll just say it should be tresspassing
[14:47:45]ADMIN: MOD: Awan/(x) : Well, how active was he in making sure the civilians did not get searched
[14:47:59]ADMIN: MOD: Awan/(x) : but that opens up punishing anyone who lets anyone into anywhere
[14:48:06]ADMIN: MOD: Solarmare/(x) : Maybe
[14:48:07]ADMIN: MOD: Solarmare/(x) : people
[14:48:16]ADMIN: MOD: Solarmare/(x) : shouldn't be letting people into places where they don't have access then
[14:48:20]ADMIN: MOD: Awan/(x) : even into area's like medbay?
[14:48:28]ADMIN: MOD: Solarmare/(x) : If they aren't the head of it
[14:48:39]ADMIN: MOD: SolidFury7/(William 'Jester' Crimson) : I'd put that under being a dick rule
[14:48:50]ADMIN: MOD: Awan/(x) : True
[14:49:22]ADMIN: MOD: Solarmare/(x) : if they don't have any business inside the surgical hallway why would they be there then
[14:50:12]ADMIN: MOD: Awan/(x) : It is part of rp that if the mp's do dislike your actions they will find something to stick to you. OOCLY it does not even matter what they charge you with at this time because thye do not have to follow marine law to the letter. So only if they are doing plain grief would this be an issue.
[14:50:19]ADMIN: MOD: Awan/(x) : shall I send that
[14:50:52]ADMIN: MOD: x : Hmm
[14:50:54]ADMIN: MOD: x : is that really how it works now?
[14:51:03]ADMIN: MOD: Solarmare/(x) : Whatever, I'll take over it for now I guess
[14:51:03]ADMIN: MOD: Solarmare/(x) : eh
[14:51:05]ADMIN: PM: BobatNight/(Sal 'Spaghetti' Spanelli)->Awan/(x): Is there a staff member who hasn't had problems with their interpretation of Marine law available?
[14:51:31]ADMIN: PM: Awan/(x)->BobatNight/(Sal 'Spaghetti' Spanelli): x is the one who litterly handles this. And I am asking the online senior for their opinion as well.
((I was asking 2 admins for their opinion how to handle this marine law issue. This here means these kinds of issues.))
[14:51:34]ADMIN: PM: Solarmare/(x)->BobatNight/(Sal 'Spaghetti' Spanelli): To wit, you allowed civillians into the cic when you were getting ID's or such?
[14:52:04]ADMIN: MOD: SolidFury7/(William 'Jester' Crimson) : The reason I'm so strict about it, is because an armed civilian could easily kill the CO, lock down the armory and cuck the WHOLE ship in a matter of aseconds
[14:52:13]ADMIN: MOD: SolidFury7/(William 'Jester' Crimson) : Especially if its multiple civvies
[14:52:18]ADMIN: MOD: SolidFury7/(William 'Jester' Crimson) : Hell, I even did it once to a CO
[14:52:25]ADMIN: MOD: x : remember, could be CLF spies
[14:52:37]ADMIN: MOD: Awan/(x) : true, and I think even a CL has the duty to follow the on board safety procedures
[14:52:47]ADMIN: MOD: Awan/(x) : And I dont want to say mp's have first slice
[14:52:54]ADMIN: MOD: Awan/(x) : but they kinda do as they maintain the safety
[14:53:10]ADMIN: MOD: Solarmare/(x) : neglect of duty really doesn't apply to the cl or civillians
[14:53:18]ADMIN: PM: BobatNight/(Sal 'Spaghetti' Spanelli)->Solarmare/(x): I brought the 1 Doctor to the CiC to get an ID made, I originally asked the XO and was told I could do it. A 2nd survivor entered, and shortly after the MPs entered and detained the survivors. They found a hand gun on a survivor and we had a verbal altercation about who was at fault for the survivors not getting searched. I followed them to the Brig where I was originally arrested for tresspassing with my charge being changed to Neglect of duty.
[14:53:29]ADMIN: MOD: Awan/(x) : That was already ruled as it does
[14:53:43]ADMIN: MOD: Awan/(x) : The cl not following weapon procedure can be charged with it.
[14:54:00]ADMIN: MOD: Solarmare/(x) : maybe, but anything they could be charged with for that could be anything else.
[14:54:02]ADMIN: MOD: Solarmare/(x) : oh well
[14:55:24]ADMIN: PM: BobatNight/(Sal 'Spaghetti' Spanelli)->Solarmare/(x): I'm the Liason, I have access to the CiC. It's not my duty or job to search survivors, I neglected nothing. The Mps were warned that survivors were found and being brought up.
[14:58:54]ADMIN: PM: Solarmare/(x)->BobatNight/(Sal 'Spaghetti' Spanelli): It's not your duty to search civillains, that also doesn't mean you're free to do things like allowing them into places where they have no access to. Letting people into the CIC when they don't have access to the area isn't something you should be doing, so the first charge of tresspassing was close enough.
[15:00:00]ADMIN: PM: BobatNight/(Sal 'Spaghetti' Spanelli)->Solarmare/(x): I'm definitely going to make a player report as this wasn't handled well in my eyes.[15:00:33]ADMIN: PM: BobatNight/(Sal 'Spaghetti' Spanelli)->Solarmare/(x): Should I file this under staff report since Crimson is staff?[15:01:45]ADMIN: PM: Solarmare/(x)->BobatNight/(Sal 'Spaghetti' Spanelli): Letting them inside of the CIC when you have no idea whether they're armed or not is also not a very good idea, to put it simply. Though if you want to make a report a player one is best since staff reports are for matters concerning that specifically such as enforcement.
[15:02:57]ADMIN: PM: BobatNight/(Sal 'Spaghetti' Spanelli)->Solarmare/(x): If you're gonna try and deny that it's not standard practice for the CL to escort survivors to the CiC to have IDs made, then there's nothing else to discuss. Have a CM day!

The conversation I had with sirlordington.

► Show Spoiler

Awan [9:36 PM]
So, I have a question. Is an mp applying the wrong charge ic now?


Sirlordington [9:37 PM]
Depends on the situation. If the charge is disproportionate it may be considered griefing.

Awan [9:37 PM]
A cmp decided to give the CL a trespassing charge because the CL let armed civilians into the CIC.
That is not trespassing at all.
Or do I need to ask a manager. (Who all seem to be missing.)

Sirlordington [9:43 PM]
It's not trespassing, no. Is it griefing? I don't know the context, I'm not going to backseat moderate without being there. Your call.

Awan [9:43 PM]
Well, the cmp already agreed to change the charge.
I just wanted to know what the new procedure is on how to handle it.

Sirlordington [9:44 PM]
Same as everything, if it's griefing punish it.

Awan [9:45 PM]
Thanks.

[solidfury7]

Just take a look at the extended logs posted by Awan.

They back up everything I say, literally, everything you have issue with is broken down here.

I didn't break any rules, I didn't break marine law. It's all in the logs for you, lad.

Fury, please don't turn this into a personal attack on me due to subjective statements such as 'you were griefing MPs'.
I saw what I saw, which was the MP team failing to follow procedure and then arresting the CL. The logs make significantly clearer for me. I'm just contributing as a witness, since I did hear over comms a good portion of what happened.

We were failing to follow procedure, as you say....because the Liason interfered with procedure by grabbing the colonists before we did?

If that is the argument you are making, you must see that you're agreeing with me. The Liasons interfered with procedure and created a security risk.

Now, regarding the "personal attack", this was more so a factual statement, you were reported for trying to bait MPs the other day and you were banned later in the day for it, for killing an MP.

I'm just going off what happened, buddy.
------------------------------------------------------

Anyway, if any admins have questions, I'll be ready to reply but I think the logs Awan posted explain everything pretty clear.

[awan]

I never got a reply on the how actively you hid the survivors.
But you not knowing is perhaps because you never asked because you knew that if you asked and they said yes they had to be searched by mp's.
That is in my opinion Willful blindness and everyone on the ship is required to follow procedure.
I could not find any logs of you even attempting to let the mp's search them.
So for me, it was clear that to some extent you were actively aiding and abetting the survivors.

[BobatNight]

Alright so lets started shall we!


[14:32:08]ADMIN: MOD: Awan/(x) : solid?
[14:32:21]ADMIN: MOD: Awan/(x) : the cl has access to cic
[14:32:24]ADMIN: MOD: */(*) : They were in the brig.
[14:32:27]ADMIN: MOD: Awan/(x) : so how can he tresspass there?
[14:32:48]ADMIN: MOD: SolidFury7/(William 'Jester' Crimson) : The charge isn't for him, it's more so between disordely conduct and tresspass
[14:32:51]ADMIN: PM: Awan/(x)->BobatNight/(Sal 'Spaghetti' Spanelli): Tresspassing is because you were in the brig.

[14:35:18]ADMIN: MOD: SolidFury7/(William 'Jester' Crimson) : So, is tresspass not valid, for letting them in?
[14:35:33]ADMIN: x : I mean, he did come into the brig

Here we see Crimson trying to validate his arrest and contradicting himself.

If we observe the Liason wiki entry...

► Show Spoiler

We will see that I did exactly as the Wiki suggests.

Having access to an area means I'm allowed into that area, to add to that I was requested by the XO to perform the ID procedure myself. This can be proved thru logs between myself and the XO before the incident began.

Marine law has no written procedures on Survivors boarding the Almayer, the only applicable rule being weapons on different security alerts. The CMP failing to enforce his own procedures reflects on himself and his department, not the Liason.
I have no obligation to assist the MP force in their own made up laws/procedures, I was simply performing my role as it is specified by the server.

This was a player entering a situation with the express desire to arrest a player and shifted charges back between two things to get one over on another player. Here we can see the mental gymnastics and attempted rule lawyering, as well as this context of the situation being misrepresented.

[14:44:04]ADMIN: MOD: Awan/(x) : well, the cl let armed civilians into cic
[14:44:14]ADMIN: MOD: Awan/(x) : the cmp charged him with trespassing
[14:44:27]ADMIN: MOD: Awan/(x) : But I disagree with that charge. I do agree with disorderly or neglect
[14:44:41]ADMIN: MOD: Awan/(x) : so the cmp made it neglect. But is the CL liable to follow procedure?
[14:45:03]ADMIN: MOD: Solarmare/(x) : If they don't have access and they let people where they shouldn't be you can just charge them with the crime instead
[14:45:05]ADMIN: MOD: Awan/(x) : lordington says as long as it aint grief it is ok
[14:45:15]ADMIN: MOD: Solarmare/(x) : Like if a staff officer tries to order people to assault someone or something eh
[14:45:18]ADMIN: MOD: SolidFury7/(William 'Jester' Crimson) : That was my thought process
[14:45:34]ADMIN: MOD: Solarmare/(x) : NEglect of duty doesn't make sense for people who aren't employed by the uscm
[14:45:44]ADMIN: MOD: Solarmare/(x) : So disorderly conduct at best

I'd like to remind you all that I was charged with neglect of duty.

[14:47:43]ADMIN: MOD: Solarmare/(x) : I'll just say it should be tresspassing
[14:47:45]ADMIN: MOD: Awan/(x) : Well, how active was he in making sure the civilians did not get searched
[14:47:59]ADMIN: MOD: Awan/(x) : but that opens up punishing anyone who lets anyone into anywhere
[14:48:06]ADMIN: MOD: Solarmare/(x) : Maybe
[14:48:07]ADMIN: MOD: Solarmare/(x) : people
[14:48:16]ADMIN: MOD: Solarmare/(x) : shouldn't be letting people into places where they don't have access then
[14:48:20]ADMIN: MOD: Awan/(x) : even into area's like medbay?
[14:48:28]ADMIN: MOD: Solarmare/(x) : If they aren't the head of it
[14:48:39]ADMIN: MOD: SolidFury7/(William 'Jester' Crimson) : I'd put that under being a dick rule
[14:48:50]ADMIN: MOD: Awan/(x) : True
[14:49:22]ADMIN: MOD: Solarmare/(x) : if they don't have any business inside the surgical hallway why would they be there then
[14:50:12]ADMIN: MOD: Awan/(x) : It is part of rp that if the mp's do dislike your actions they will find something to stick to you. OOCLY it does not even matter what they charge you with at this time because thye do not have to follow marine law to the letter. So only if they are doing plain grief would this be an issue.
[14:50:19]ADMIN: MOD: Awan/(x) : shall I send that
[14:50:52]ADMIN: MOD: x : Hmm
[14:50:54]ADMIN: MOD: x : is that really how it works now?

Here we see Staff justifying the actions with Marine law reworks, this sounds suspiciously like abusing the system.


More relevant logs.

[14:52:37]ADMIN: MOD: Awan/(x) : true, and I think even a CL has the duty to follow the on board safety procedures
[14:52:47]ADMIN: MOD: Awan/(x) : And I dont want to say mp's have first slice
[14:52:54]ADMIN: MOD: Awan/(x) : but they kinda do as they maintain the safety
[14:53:10]ADMIN: MOD: Solarmare/(x) : neglect of duty really doesn't apply to the cl or civillians
[14:53:29]ADMIN: MOD: Awan/(x) : That was already ruled as it does
[14:53:43]ADMIN: MOD: Awan/(x) : The cl not following weapon procedure can be charged with it.
[14:54:00]ADMIN: MOD: Solarmare/(x) : maybe, but anything they could be charged with for that could be anything else.
[14:54:02]ADMIN: MOD: Solarmare/(x) : oh well

I never got a reply on the how actively you hid the survivors.
But you not knowing is perhaps because you never asked because you knew that if you asked and they said yes they had to be searched by mp's.
That is in my opinion Willful blindness and everyone on the ship is required to follow procedure.
I could not find any logs of you even attempting to let the mp's search them.
So for me, it was clear that to some extent you were actively aiding and abetting the survivors.

This is a completely ridiculous assertion and only further shows what I perceive to be bias.
I'd like logs pulled between myself and the survivor, Josh Miser I believe his name was.

In summary, you arrested me on a made-up procedure due to the incompetence of your own MP force, we can also see that you clearly arrested me for trespass and quickly changed your tune once you realized it wasn't going to stick.
All in all this is very unbecoming behavior for staff members.
Edit: You presented the argument in Ahelps as if I had knowingly smuggled an armed survivor into the CiC, in reality it was a Doctor who had a pistol in his backpack that I had no idea about.

[solidfury7]

Marine Law doesn't have a procedure but

Alright so lets started shall we!


[14:32:08]ADMIN: MOD: Awan/(x) : solid?
[14:32:21]ADMIN: MOD: Awan/(x) : the cl has access to cic
[14:32:24]ADMIN: MOD: */(*) : They were in the brig.
[14:32:27]ADMIN: MOD: Awan/(x) : so how can he tresspass there?
[14:32:48]ADMIN: MOD: SolidFury7/(William 'Jester' Crimson) : The charge isn't for him, it's more so between disordely conduct and tresspass
[14:32:51]ADMIN: PM: Awan/(x)->BobatNight/(Sal 'Spaghetti' Spanelli): Tresspassing is because you were in the brig.

[14:35:18]ADMIN: MOD: SolidFury7/(William 'Jester' Crimson) : So, is tresspass not valid, for letting them in?
[14:35:33]ADMIN: x : I mean, he did come into the brig

Here we see Crimson trying to validate his arrest and contradicting himself.

I'm sorry man, but your reading comprehension sucks.

I'm saying that the tresspassing charge isn't because you entered anywhere, its because you let THEM inside the area.

It's simply me discussing what charge would be best suited for this situation, while Awan simply got the wrong end of the stick.

This was a player entering a situation with the express desire to arrest a player and shifted charges back between two things to get one over on another player. Here we can see the mental gymnastics and attempted rule lawyering, as well as this context of the situation being misrepresented.

[14:44:04]ADMIN: MOD: Awan/(x) : well, the cl let armed civilians into cic
[14:44:14]ADMIN: MOD: Awan/(x) : the cmp charged him with trespassing
[14:44:27]ADMIN: MOD: Awan/(x) : But I disagree with that charge. I do agree with disorderly or neglect
[14:44:41]ADMIN: MOD: Awan/(x) : so the cmp made it neglect. But is the CL liable to follow procedure?
[14:45:03]ADMIN: MOD: Solarmare/(x) : If they don't have access and they let people where they shouldn't be you can just charge them with the crime instead
[14:45:05]ADMIN: MOD: Awan/(x) : lordington says as long as it aint grief it is ok
[14:45:15]ADMIN: MOD: Solarmare/(x) : Like if a staff officer tries to order people to assault someone or something eh
[14:45:18]ADMIN: MOD: SolidFury7/(William 'Jester' Crimson) : That was my thought process
[14:45:34]ADMIN: MOD: Solarmare/(x) : NEglect of duty doesn't make sense for people who aren't employed by the uscm
[14:45:44]ADMIN: MOD: Solarmare/(x) : So disorderly conduct at best

I'd like to remind you all that I was charged with neglect of duty.

So, because I wanted to specifically clarify the situation and what charges should be used, (As multiple charges can cover a crime, and marine law has been rightfully simplified), you now believe your arrest is invalid?

That isn't how it works. You were charged with neglect of duty, after a brief discussion with the staff, then after I set the time, Awan asked around 3-4 admins for further clarification, and they discussed it. However the timer was already set and it was deemed IC (The times would of been the same if it was Disordely conduct or neglect of duty,)

[14:47:43]ADMIN: MOD: Solarmare/(x) : I'll just say it should be tresspassing
[14:47:45]ADMIN: MOD: Awan/(x) : Well, how active was he in making sure the civilians did not get searched
[14:47:59]ADMIN: MOD: Awan/(x) : but that opens up punishing anyone who lets anyone into anywhere
[14:48:06]ADMIN: MOD: Solarmare/(x) : Maybe
[14:48:07]ADMIN: MOD: Solarmare/(x) : people
[14:48:16]ADMIN: MOD: Solarmare/(x) : shouldn't be letting people into places where they don't have access then
[14:48:20]ADMIN: MOD: Awan/(x) : even into area's like medbay?
[14:48:28]ADMIN: MOD: Solarmare/(x) : If they aren't the head of it
[14:48:39]ADMIN: MOD: SolidFury7/(William 'Jester' Crimson) : I'd put that under being a dick rule
[14:48:50]ADMIN: MOD: Awan/(x) : True
[14:49:22]ADMIN: MOD: Solarmare/(x) : if they don't have any business inside the surgical hallway why would they be there then
[14:50:12]ADMIN: MOD: Awan/(x) : It is part of rp that if the mp's do dislike your actions they will find something to stick to you. OOCLY it does not even matter what they charge you with at this time because thye do not have to follow marine law to the letter. So only if they are doing plain grief would this be an issue.
[14:50:19]ADMIN: MOD: Awan/(x) : shall I send that
[14:50:52]ADMIN: MOD: x : Hmm
[14:50:54]ADMIN: MOD: x : is that really how it works now?

Here we see Staff justifying the actions with Marine law reworks, this sounds suspiciously like abusing the system.

Yup, must be a conspiracy for them to cover me, despite logs from slack show Awans comments didnt mention it involved staff at all.

If you thought for more than 6 seconds on this, you'd realise that this is staff using caution before making a ruling which could open a door to abuse within the system. Marine Law is a work in progress, it isn't perfect, hence the constant changes. The fact you'd actually assume this is a coverup, ESPECIALLY with the logs talking about the implications is actually really dissapointing, because you're literally accusing the staff who are trying to protect marine laws from griefiers, of being malicious griefers.

So either you're clutching at straws, despite the logs, or you're really misguided.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You do realise there is a TEN MINUTE INVESTIGATION PERIOD, to investigate and GATHER EVIDENCE for arrests, you're complaining because I decided to communicate with the staff team about the charges after you ahelped about it.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Are you really using the wiki as a crutch for your argument? Whew, it is a guide lad, written by a volunteer to put you on the right path.

The fact you're using an example on the wiki through really intense lawyering is really disappointing, however if you wish to go deeper down that path, here you go...

You do realise that the Wiki Link you said specifically mentions trying to argue for permission to speak to the colonists first which implies that the Commander should be speaking to the Colonists first, meaning they were likely grabbed the MPs (Or if you really wanted to believe this would happen) The commander himself.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So, the TLDR I'm getting is
"I allowed unknown civilians in to the most valuable and critical place on the ship, with a weapon and I'm unwilling to face the consequences of my actions ICly for interfering with military procedures as a civilian/not taking relevant precautions/ ignoring the MPs " (I even added a nice little multiple selections for you)

[BobatNight]

This is again pretty sad and a flimsy attempt on your part, I'll let staff and other witnesses come forward on this as I've presented my argument already.

You're advocating that I trespassed in the brig, this is clear in the first quotes. Lets try and be adults about this on not stoop to personal attacks.

Between the logs presented you started with a trespass arrest for me coming into the brig, then shifted it to something else you thought would sound more valid.

There's no conspiracy, this claim wasn't made. I didn't say there was a cover-up, the logs are posted publicly, that'd be a pretty silly thing to say. I believe you misrepresented the context of the situation and a long with Awan attempted to justify and validate the actions you took.

If you had investigated this situation at all you'd have learned some valuable information, I never assisted the survivor in hiding his weapon - nor did I have knowledge of it. The XO had instructed me to process their IDs.

It's actually pretty amusing that you're accusing me of being the one to rule lawyer. There's no marine law or procedure for processing survivors, it was your own idea that you failed to do.
The Guide was posted as a reference to the Liason's duties, which I believe most if not everyone would agree I was performing my duties. (Debrief, ID Updates)

I'm not sure how you think being condescending is doing anything for your case, or how trying to make a very common process between the CL/Survivors seem so foreign.

So either you're clutching at straws, despite the logs, or you're really misguided.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Jembo]

Hello, I was actually the survivor who had the fire arm which sorta started this in the first place. Ended up getting rescued by the marines from ICE HELL, and I was following a marine who was infected in medbay so I was doing that sweet RP thing. The CL saw me and did their thing they wanna chat it up bribe / poison me but I'm just a dumb survivor and play along. We chit chat it up, things are going smooth and he gets permission to make me a doctor on staff to assist the marines. When we walk into I believe it's called CIC? Command or whatever, another survivor sneaks in the open door to chat as well. Things are going great, I get basic medbay access when the MP's swarm us. They're yelling at us to put our hands on the wall cuff us and do a search. I don't resist, and my other survivor friend doesn't but he's extremely vocal about how it's bullshit and he's already been searched and has given up his weapons.

They find a shitty little handgun in my back a carry over that I honestly forgot about, as I dropped the pulse rifle I originally snatched up and left it Alamo. Me and the other survivor who hasn't done anything wrong get carted off to the brig for questioning and interrogation. The CL is following us and talking to the MP's telling them that it's bullshit and that we haven't done anything to really warrant getting processed though the brig. The second the CL walks into the brig one of the MP's says basically the following *Well now your trespassing and doesn't matter if we're being shitty you broke the law so now you're basically valid.* So the CL get's arrested and has to spend a great deal of time in the brig for just wanting to talk. He wasn't trying to free us or anything he was just talking which I think is the shitty part of this situation as we could of had some great RP. Rather than letting what happened progress naturally they saw a way of ending the argument by arresting the CL rather than talking to them / the survivors. Mind you this wasn't just the result of whoever plays Jester, the other MP's arrested the CL, and their were sorta complacent with the arrest.

TDLR
Did the MP's have a valid reason to arrest the CL? Kinda. Would things of been more fun if they allowed for RP? Oh yeah I think so at least.

[adrenalinetooth]

XO here. While I am not one hundred percent educated in marine law, I was under the impression that civilians are not privy to marine law and are only obligated to answer to the acting CO.
It was MY mistake for not noticing MPs announcing that they were still searching for the civilians. It was MY mistake for not bothering to ask if the civilians were searched and processed before allowing them into the CiC.
I didn't turn the CL or survivors away because I naively assumed that they were already processed by MPs. My stance with civilians is to convince them to work for the corps as fast as possible so they are privy to marine law and therefore not just my orders, or to hire them as doctors so they are under the CMO's command. This is why I quickly wanted the CL to employ them.
If anything, a little more examination into the situation would have helped. If anything, I should have been charged for neglect of duty for allowing armed civilians into the CiC, putting my lieutenants at risk. I should have been smacked with those charges and not the CL for permitting that danger.
This is not report worthy, honestly. Nothing but good intentions were used, and a simple mistake on my part that is genuinely an IC issue is not an issue OOC. This rings especiallly true with the "MPs have to follow marine law" rule getting removed.

[Isolatar]

I was one of the survivors that made their way into the CIC. I saw some talk about going up to see the CL to talk to him about what happened, so I went up and saw his office was empty so I decided to walk further down the corridor and saw the CIC open so I walked in. That's when the CL spotted me and was going to set me up with a new ID. CMP came in, spotted us and cuffed us after telling us to turn around. Bearing in mind *I* had no firearms left to give since I gave mine away as soon as I was spotted coming off the Alamo, I found it confusing why I was forced into the holding cell and told that I either tell the CMP what happened on the planet below us or I wouldn't be let out. I kept telling him that it wasn't his duty to know what happened and that I would only talk when the Commander and CL were present. Lo and behold, they shut the holding cell down for a good five minutes and I was warned I would stay in it until we either reached port or I answered the CMP's questions. My attempts for an appeal was denied purely because the CO was "busy" even though I can 100% say for certain that the CMP didn't even bother informing him. Had I not been forced into telling the CMP what happened, I would have been stuck in the holding cell for the rest of the round as I was also denied a radio, so I couldn't even inform Command that I was in the brig for no reason and that I'd like to speak to them.

I was told multiple times that I was an unknown individual on the planet and could have possibly be a CLF spy however I'd argue that since the other survivors knew me and that I actually held a genuine ID card, that there were no chance of me even being a terrorist. Furthermore it would make no RP sense that they would send an operative to a random planet that only would have had a few dozen people on it anyway.

[BobatNight]

To add to this the Commander was not busy, he passed the mission to the XO who did a great job. Tex was RPing for the duration of the round, interacting with Almayer crew and survivors. ( after their eventual release)

Edit:
To reiterate, I had business in the CiC, as did the survivors. Backed by XO request, none of your charges apply for my actions.
You wouldn't arrest a PFC brought into med bay, or the doctor who brought him in.
Its incredible that you'd try to interpret my actions as malicious, negligent or somehow conspiring to begin with.

[solidfury7]

I was one of the survivors that made their way into the CIC. I saw some talk about going up to see the CL to talk to him about what happened, so I went up and saw his office was empty so I decided to walk further down the corridor and saw the CIC open so I walked in. That's when the CL spotted me and was going to set me up with a new ID. CMP came in, spotted us and cuffed us after telling us to turn around. Bearing in mind *I* had no firearms left to give since I gave mine away as soon as I was spotted coming off the Alamo, I found it confusing why I was forced into the holding cell and told that I either tell the CMP what happened on the planet below us or I wouldn't be let out. I kept telling him that it wasn't his duty to know what happened and that I would only talk when the Commander and CL were present. Lo and behold, they shut the holding cell down for a good five minutes and I was warned I would stay in it until we either reached port or I answered the CMP's questions. My attempts for an appeal was denied purely because the CO was "busy" even though I can 100% say for certain that the CMP didn't even bother informing him. Had I not been forced into telling the CMP what happened, I would have been stuck in the holding cell for the rest of the round as I was also denied a radio, so I couldn't even inform Command that I was in the brig for no reason and that I'd like to speak to them.

I was told multiple times that I was an unknown individual on the planet and could have possibly be a CLF spy however I'd argue that since the other survivors knew me and that I actually held a genuine ID card, that there were no chance of me even being a terrorist. Furthermore it would make no RP sense that they would send an operative to a random planet that only would have had a few dozen people on it anyway.

I'll address this, as it raises a new point.

It was previously ruled that colonists/survivors who do not co-operate during questioning at all (Such as refusing to answer even basic questions) can be kept within the brig until they co-operate. You are onboard a military vessel during a combat operation, if you're not going to even answer simply questions such as what your occupation was down there and what happened on the colony, to the people who rescued you, they not going to simply release you and let you have free reign of the ship.

You are an unknown agent in a sector which has ULF, CLF, Pirates, Freelancers and a various other threats.

The logs show me explaining this to the prisoners. You chose to not speak to us, while your comrade did, he was released nearly immediately, you were not.

Thats just the way it is, your roleplay has consequences.
---------------------------------------------------

I'm also going to address this notion that the CL was detained for entering the brig, this, as I've previously stated, is false, logs between myself and the Military police (Specifically Lillian something...brown maybe) will show that an MP was talking about how you could be detained on a seperate "Tresspass" charge for entering the brig, however I denied it specifically because I believed it to be an overreach.

----------------------------------------------------

This report is based on the following accusations

1) The claim I did this to be malicious - This has been refuted, the majority of the logs show that I was being lenient, it shows me being polite and explaining the situation to all those involved, I was trying to get the situation over with as quickly as possible and I was addressing this situation through high roleplay, as should be expected for any high level and impactful position.

2) The claim I was griefing - See above statement.

3) The claim I placed an incorrect charge on you - The Staff and I were in contact and had a discussion regarding which charge would be more valid. I altered your charge before setting the timer after a discussion with the staff, and they continued to discuss it further as it was a complicated and unprecedented situation.

-----------------------------------------------------

Regarding the Commander and XO, I did hail them on multiple occassions for a variety of issues and we didn't get one response, other than when we informed the Commander marines were writing poetry rather than deploying to the colony (CO has a poetry competition on.)

-------------------------------------------------------

"You wouldn't arrest a PFC brought into med bay, or the doctor who brought him in.
Its incredible that you'd try to interpret my actions as malicious, negligent or somehow conspiring to begin with."

Your actions were not seen as malicious, hence why I said at the time and I say even now, I was being lenient. Your actions were seen to have placed the vessel at risk. Is this soley your fault? No, I think that there were a number of issues regarding this situation, such as communication between departments, MPs being shorthanded and your relocation of the colonists while MPs were sweeping the vessel looking for them.

The comparision between the doctor situation is silly, it was brought up funnily enough in Mchat because we were talking about how a ruling on this COULD open the door to MPs griefing with that. However context matters.

I've repeated this a million times and I'll repeat it a million more.

The Combat Information Center is argueably the most IMPORTANT place in the vessel (Followed by the Engine), you brought in a colonist you knowingly knew was not processed, who was found to be in possession of a weapon. The argument of the weapon being simply a UPP Pistol (Which has AP ammo) doesn't matter. It is still a deadly weapon which could easily be used to take the CIC hostage, kill the CO/XO or even take over the whole ship.

I've even done this as a colonist previously, as a Three World Empire Terrorist. I killed Commander Gracie Honour and the majority of the CIC team because of breaches in security protocol. And nobody noticed until it was too late.

[BobatNight]

Phew, long day but I got time for this. Lets dive back in shall we?


Lets reiterate on the context these logs are in.

14:32:08]ADMIN: MOD: Awan/(x) : solid?
[14:32:21]ADMIN: MOD: Awan/(x) : the cl has access to cic
[14:32:24]ADMIN: MOD: */(*) : They were in the brig.
[14:32:27]ADMIN: MOD: Awan/(x) : so how can he tresspass there?
[14:32:48]ADMIN: MOD: SolidFury7/(William 'Jester' Crimson) : The charge isn't for him, it's more so between disordely conduct and tresspass
[14:32:51]ADMIN: PM: Awan/(x)->BobatNight/(Sal 'Spaghetti' Spanelli): Tresspassing is because you were in the brig.

[14:35:18]ADMIN: MOD: SolidFury7/(William 'Jester' Crimson) : So, is tresspass not valid, for letting them in?
[14:35:33]ADMIN: x : I mean, he did come into the brig

We can again see that you're in-fact insinuating that I did trespass, or assisted in the trespass.

[14:33:42]ADMIN: MOD: Awan/(x) : but for what charge is he brigged?
[14:33:52]ADMIN: MOD: SolidFury7/(William 'Jester' Crimson) : Well, I thought tresspass is the most fitting.

[14:44:04]ADMIN: MOD: Awan/(x) : well, the cl let armed civilians into cic
[14:44:14]ADMIN: MOD: Awan/(x) : the cmp charged him with trespassing
[14:44:27]ADMIN: MOD: Awan/(x) : But I disagree with that charge. I do agree with disorderly or neglect

[14:47:43]ADMIN: MOD: Solarmare/(x) : I'll just say it should be tresspassing
[14:47:45]ADMIN: MOD: Awan/(x) : Well, how active was he in making sure the civilians did not get searched
[14:47:59]ADMIN: MOD: Awan/(x) : but that opens up punishing anyone who lets anyone into anywhere
[14:48:06]ADMIN: MOD: Solarmare/(x) : Maybe
[14:48:07]ADMIN: MOD: Solarmare/(x) : people
[14:48:16]ADMIN: MOD: Solarmare/(x) : shouldn't be letting people into places where they don't have access then

Something something not trespassing.

[14:50:12]ADMIN: MOD: Awan/(x) : It is part of rp that if the mp's do dislike your actions they will find something to stick to you. OOCLY it does not even matter what they charge you with at this time because thye do not have to follow marine law to the letter. So only if they are doing plain grief would this be an issue.

So if it wasn't being a dick or grief? What was it then? What possible 'High Roleplay' reason do you have for arresting the CL falsely of a Major crime?

[14:53:43]ADMIN: MOD: Awan/(x) : The cl not following weapon procedure can be charged with it.
[14:54:00]ADMIN: MOD: Solarmare/(x) : maybe, but anything they could be charged with for that could be anything else.
[14:54:02]ADMIN: MOD: Solarmare/(x) : oh well

Here again I'll highlight staff trying to find a reason to validate their arrest.

1) Your interpretation of your tone during this discussion isn't relevant, you gave me a brief statement of why I was being brigged without bothering to investigate at all. As we can see from witness testimony, you failed to do even the most basic of investigation into the matter. The level of leniency you claim to show isn't something that you'll be congratulated for, your 'leniency' was in the face of a nonsense arrest.

2) See above statement.

3) You made up a Law/procedure and proceeded to use it as a justifiable reason for brigging me. You then attempted to rule lawyer Marine law/Exploit changes to the Marine law in order to further justify your actions.
You and Awan have both then taken to this thread in a series of easily contradicted accusations and personal attacks, in what I assume is an attempt to discredit myself and downplay the evidence.

The Vessel was never at risk, we were given permission from the XO to use the ID console. Using 1 event round that is EXTREMELY rare and using it to set the standard of a normal round is absolutely ridiculous. As even stated by the XO, HE would have been responsible, not the Liason, even this is a huge stretch of Marine law. Your off the records procedures are not a legal ground to charge people with ridiculous crimes. Your job as the MP is to enforce marine law, not try to find new interpretations to harass other players.

You make the claim I knew this survivor wasn't processed, I was not aware of this at all. This can be backed up by logs and the Survivor's own testimony.
Awan also attempted to plant the idea that I was complicit in assisting the survivor with smuggling his weapon or himself, this is clearly contradicted and untrue.

Further, Search Procedure is clearly under Marine Law and under the duties of the MP's... NOT the CL. You wouldn't arrest a SL for the crimes of a PFC, so you wouldn't arrest the CL for the crimes of a civillian.

I'd also like logs to be pulled between you and your MP force, so that we can see timestamps of when you changed your mind on the charges.

I'm also unsure of how you believe giving me almost no explanation was High Roleplay at all, our chat logs clearly show you giving a brief statement on my arrest and nothing further. Or how not investigating the matter before/after arresting me falls under the category of High Roleplay.
You go onto to tell me I breached multiple laws and not explain how or what they are, these supposed law breaks are easily viewed in the Staff chat logs. I believe the correct term for it would be

clutching at straws

[awan]

Phew, long day but I got time for this. Lets dive back in shall we?


Lets reiterate on the context these logs are in.

14:32:08]ADMIN: MOD: Awan/(x) : solid?
[14:32:21]ADMIN: MOD: Awan/(x) : the cl has access to cic
[14:32:24]ADMIN: MOD: */(*) : They were in the brig.
[14:32:27]ADMIN: MOD: Awan/(x) : so how can he tresspass there?
[14:32:48]ADMIN: MOD: SolidFury7/(William 'Jester' Crimson) : The charge isn't for him, it's more so between disordely conduct and tresspass
[14:32:51]ADMIN: PM: Awan/(x)->BobatNight/(Sal 'Spaghetti' Spanelli): Tresspassing is because you were in the brig.

[14:35:18]ADMIN: MOD: SolidFury7/(William 'Jester' Crimson) : So, is tresspass not valid, for letting them in?
[14:35:33]ADMIN: x : I mean, he did come into the brig

We can again see that you're in-fact insinuating that I did trespass, or assisted in the trespass.

[14:33:42]ADMIN: MOD: Awan/(x) : but for what charge is he brigged?
[14:33:52]ADMIN: MOD: SolidFury7/(William 'Jester' Crimson) : Well, I thought tresspass is the most fitting.

[14:44:04]ADMIN: MOD: Awan/(x) : well, the cl let armed civilians into cic
[14:44:14]ADMIN: MOD: Awan/(x) : the cmp charged him with trespassing
[14:44:27]ADMIN: MOD: Awan/(x) : But I disagree with that charge. I do agree with disorderly or neglect

[14:47:43]ADMIN: MOD: Solarmare/(x) : I'll just say it should be tresspassing
[14:47:45]ADMIN: MOD: Awan/(x) : Well, how active was he in making sure the civilians did not get searched
[14:47:59]ADMIN: MOD: Awan/(x) : but that opens up punishing anyone who lets anyone into anywhere
[14:48:06]ADMIN: MOD: Solarmare/(x) : Maybe
[14:48:07]ADMIN: MOD: Solarmare/(x) : people
[14:48:16]ADMIN: MOD: Solarmare/(x) : shouldn't be letting people into places where they don't have access then

Something something not trespassing.

[14:50:12]ADMIN: MOD: Awan/(x) : It is part of rp that if the mp's do dislike your actions they will find something to stick to you. OOCLY it does not even matter what they charge you with at this time because thye do not have to follow marine law to the letter. So only if they are doing plain grief would this be an issue.

So if it wasn't being a dick or grief? What was it then? What possible 'High Roleplay' reason do you have for arresting the CL falsely of a Major crime?

[14:53:43]ADMIN: MOD: Awan/(x) : The cl not following weapon procedure can be charged with it.
[14:54:00]ADMIN: MOD: Solarmare/(x) : maybe, but anything they could be charged with for that could be anything else.
[14:54:02]ADMIN: MOD: Solarmare/(x) : oh well

Here again I'll highlight staff trying to find a reason to validate their arrest.

1) Your interpretation of your tone during this discussion isn't relevant, you gave me a brief statement of why I was being brigged without bothering to investigate at all. As we can see from witness testimony, you failed to do even the most basic of investigation into the matter. The level of leniency you claim to show isn't something that you'll be congratulated for, your 'leniency' was in the face of a nonsense arrest.

2) See above statement.

3) You made up a Law/procedure and proceeded to use it as a justifiable reason for brigging me. You then attempted to rule lawyer Marine law/Exploit changes to the Marine law in order to further justify your actions.
You and Awan have both then taken to this thread in a series of easily contradicted accusations and personal attacks, in what I assume is an attempt to discredit myself and downplay the evidence.

The Vessel was never at risk, we were given permission from the XO to use the ID console. Using 1 event round that is EXTREMELY rare and using it to set the standard of a normal round is absolutely ridiculous. As even stated by the XO, HE would have been responsible, not the Liason, even this is a huge stretch of Marine law. Your off the records procedures are not a legal ground to charge people with ridiculous crimes. Your job as the MP is to enforce marine law, not try to find new interpretations to harass other players.

You make the claim I knew this survivor wasn't processed, I was not aware of this at all. This can be backed up by logs and the Survivor's own testimony.
Awan also attempted to plant the idea that I was complicit in assisting the survivor with smuggling his weapon or himself, this is clearly contradicted and untrue.

Further, Search Procedure is clearly under Marine Law and under the duties of the MP's... NOT the CL. You wouldn't arrest a SL for the crimes of a PFC, so you wouldn't arrest the CL for the crimes of a civillian.

I'd also like logs to be pulled between you and your MP force, so that we can see timestamps of when you changed your mind on the charges.

I'm also unsure of how you believe giving me almost no explanation was High Roleplay at all, our chat logs clearly show you giving a brief statement on my arrest and nothing further. Or how not investigating the matter before/after arresting me falls under the category of High Roleplay.
You go onto to tell me I breached multiple laws and not explain how or what they are, these supposed law breaks are easily viewed in the Staff chat logs. I believe the correct term for it would be

This is a report about the actions solid did.
If you want to change this into a report of my actions make a staff report in the staff report area.
You are cutting into these logs and leaving out quite a bit.
The rules at the time were that mp's could break marine law as long as they were not breaking the be a dick rule.
So the question should not even be if his reasoning was correct or even if the crime matched at the time because it was against the ic rules but not against the ooc rules at the time.


Now lets get to a hypothetical and say you are right the charge was wrong?
What ooc rule was broken? Because the arrest did not have to be valid. It being invalid was an ic issue as 2 admins confirmed.

[BobatNight]

These comments are based on Admin logs as well as your posts in this thread. I was instructed to make this a player report when I asked in game as well. What you post in this thread is relevant to the on-going conversation, and I won't be ignoring your comments or logs during this Report.

The logs are fully available for anyone to read, I'm taking relevant quotes where they're found and highlighting them.

So what you're now saying is, Yeah we broke Marine law but it's cool because we were allowed at the time.

Awan [9:37 PM]
A cmp decided to give the CL a trespassing charge because the CL let armed civilians into the CIC.
That is not trespassing at all.
Or do I need to ask a manager. (Who all seem to be missing.)

Sirlordington [9:43 PM]
It's not trespassing, no. Is it griefing? I don't know the context, I'm not going to backseat moderate without being there. Your call.

Awan [9:43 PM]
Well, the cmp already agreed to change the charge.
I just wanted to know what the new procedure is on how to handle it.

Sirlordington [9:44 PM]
Same as everything, if it's griefing punish it.

Awan [9:45 PM]
Thanks.

Here we can see that Lordington isn't agreeing with you, he's actually informing you that your trespass charge is bogus, and it's up to you to determine if it wasn't griefing.
The context of the situation was also clearly misrepresented, this is evident by witness testimony as well as logs.

I believe anyone who's willing to show a lack of bias can see a clear pattern of contradictions, back pedaling and misrepresentation of the situation.

I'd also like to remind everyone of the definition of grief as defined by the server and my further take on the situation.

Specifically, Rule 3 states as such - No griefing - Griefing is the intent of one player wanting to cause grief or annoyance to other players or to the server without any roleplay reason. If Staff believes that the player’s intent is to grief then action will be taken whether or not it actually was the player’s intent. Any damage to the station or players caused by griefing can be repaired at an Admin's discretion. If you are being griefed, don’t retaliate - Adminhelp it. You’ll get healed. Griefing a griefer is still griefing, and the combat logs you’re generating make it harder for Staff to prove who the real griefer is.
This is the intent of ONE player wanting to cause grief or ANNYOANCE to other players WITHOUT any roleplay reason. There is nothing in Marine Law stating that the CL cannot go to the CIC with survivors, they specifically arrested the CL and discussed what charge to levy AFTER arresting them (another violation of Marine Law, you don't change the charge, you notify them of the charge then arrest them), and at NO TIME was the discussion "Oh, I made a mistake" but rather doubling down.

The specific player in question has more than just THIS incident in which they pretzeled Marine Law to attempt to derail the round for players. They've shown repeatedly that they are incapable of taking an objective view to Marine Law.
I was not preventing Marine Law from being enforced, I wasn't hiding the survivors, I was merely going about my round and Crimson saw fit to attempt to pretzel Marine Law in a way it isn't written to arrest me.
His defense has slowly been chopped down from it was a Justifiable arrest, to "well it was allowed during the time." This is showing your dishonest nature and inability to take responsibility for your actions. It's also highly disturbing that a staff member such as Awan, who has been found to have a perverse interpretation of marine law, to be so adamantly defending your unjustifiable actions.

At no time did the staff even begin to discuss if Crimson had made a mistake. Instead of an objective view of the situation there was just an attempt to justify the actions taken by Crimson. This lack of self awareness and accountability for their actions is detrimental to the community as a whole.

Edit: Small edit addressing Awan's post.

[awan]

These comments are based on Admin logs as well as your posts in this thread. I was instructed to make this a player report when I asked in game as well. What you post in this thread is relevant to the on-going conversation, and I won't be ignoring your comments or logs during this Report.

The logs are fully available for anyone to read, I'm taking relevant quotes where they're found and highlighting them.

So what you're now saying is, Yeah we broke Marine law but it's cool because we were allowed at the time.

Awan [9:37 PM]
A cmp decided to give the CL a trespassing charge because the CL let armed civilians into the CIC.
That is not trespassing at all.
Or do I need to ask a manager. (Who all seem to be missing.)

Sirlordington [9:43 PM]
It's not trespassing, no. Is it griefing? I don't know the context, I'm not going to backseat moderate without being there. Your call.

Awan [9:43 PM]
Well, the cmp already agreed to change the charge.
I just wanted to know what the new procedure is on how to handle it.

Sirlordington [9:44 PM]
Same as everything, if it's griefing punish it.

Awan [9:45 PM]
Thanks.

Here we can see that Lordington isn't agreeing with you, he's actually informing you that your trespass charge is bogus, and it's up to you to determine if it wasn't griefing.
The context of the situation was also clearly misrepresented, this is evident by witness testimony as well as logs.

Wait what? Me saying That is not trespassing at all.
Then he says It's not trespassing, no.
How is that him disagreeing with me?

I believe anyone who's willing to show a lack of bias can see a clear pattern of contradictions, back pedaling and misrepresentation of the situation.

I'd also like to remind everyone of the definition of grief as defined by the server and my further take on the situation.

Specifically, Rule 3 states as such - No griefing - Griefing is the intent of one player wanting to cause grief or annoyance to other players or to the server without any roleplay reason. If Staff believes that the player’s intent is to grief then action will be taken whether or not it actually was the player’s intent. Any damage to the station or players caused by griefing can be repaired at an Admin's discretion. If you are being griefed, don’t retaliate - Adminhelp it. You’ll get healed. Griefing a griefer is still griefing, and the combat logs you’re generating make it harder for Staff to prove who the real griefer is.
This is the intent of ONE player wanting to cause grief or ANNYOANCE to other players WITHOUT any roleplay reason. There is nothing in Marine Law stating that the CL cannot go to the CIC with survivors, they specifically arrested the CL and discussed what charge to levy AFTER arresting them (another violation of Marine Law, you don't change the charge, you notify them of the charge then arrest them), and at NO TIME was the discussion "Oh, I made a mistake" but rather doubling down.

He had a roleplay reason. He considered you taking civilians into cic as dangerous. That is an ic consideration that lead to these actions.

The specific player in question has more than just THIS incident in which they pretzeled Marine Law to attempt to derail the round for players. They've shown repeatedly that they are incapable of taking an objective view to Marine Law.
I was not preventing Marine Law from being enforced, I wasn't hiding the survivors, I was merely going about my round and Crimson saw fit to attempt to pretzel Marine Law in a way it isn't written to arrest me.
His defense has slowly been chopped down from it was a Justifiable arrest, to "well it was allowed during the time." This is showing your dishonest nature and inability to take responsibility for your actions. It's also highly disturbing that a staff member such as Awan, who has been found to have a perverse interpretation of marine law, to be so adamantly defending your unjustifiable actions.

Once more at this time there was no ooc rule saying the cmp had to follow marine law.
To quote Suits A cop follows a car long enough, he's gonna find a busted tail light. And even if he doesn't, he's gonna bust it himself.
We are a staff team. I made a call and I explained my call. I have given you multiple people who say if it is not grief it is ic.
I asked you the question as a partial demurer even if the arrest was false that is not against the server rules.
You have to point out where these were not ic actions done by the character but ooc actions done by the player.
And us as a staff team discussing the charges is what the logs show. But he does have ic reasoning.

At no time did the staff even begin to discuss if Crimson had made a mistake. Instead of an objective view of the situation there was just an attempt to justify the actions taken by Crimson. This lack of self awareness and accountability for their actions is detrimental to the community as a whole.

Edit: Small edit addressing Awan's post.

Awan [9:37 PM]
A cmp decided to give the CL a trespassing charge because the CL let armed civilians into the CIC.
That is not trespassing at all.

How is that not operating under the assumption that he made a mistake with the charge?
The entire context I gave is that the charge is false that is the entire basis in the conversation.

[BobatNight]

Formatting on my part was poor in that first section, this entire quote wasn't directed at you Awan.

You argued ICly and OOCly that a procedure had been broken, not that Crimson's character felt ICly compelled to take action over the perceived breach of procedure.

You've shown me people who did not know the context, this is not what I consider to be a ruling as if this was the case the thread would have been closed by now.

You're very much implying if not outright admitting at this point that the CMP fabricated a bogus reason to arrest me.

I have pointed out how this went past IC actions already in this thread, I'd direct you to posts above as well as logs.

The staff team was seeking to justify and find a Marine law to slip the arrest under, you disagreeing with the type of charge is not the same as disagreeing with the arrest as a whole.


?Edit/Bump? Just curious if this is still being investigated by the appropriate Staff members.