Sargash Staff Report

LaKiller8 · Post by **LaKiller8** » 25 Jul 2018, 16:12

Your Byond Key: LaKiller8

Your Character Name: Thomas Echard

Their Byond key: Sargash

Approximate time and date of the incident (Central Us Time for best results): ~13:50 CDT 25th July 2018

Which Staff Protocols (http://cm-ss13.com/viewtop ... =57&t=5647) were broken: 3 or 5 I guess. The situation was investigated properly but the punishment / decision to punish was unfair in my opinion.

Description of the incident: I was a delta medic healing people as usual, at the time of this incident I was in front of lambda, south of the cafeteria area on Big Red [1], the area was secure with cades at lambda entrance so it was a safe spot where several medics were healing patiens, I was healing a bravo spec with a chest fracture I believe, when a bravo marine decided it would be a wise idea to drag them away, I yelled stop, dragged them back, when they approached me again I disarmed them once, after a little verbal fight I decided to throw the first punch and a fight broke out after this. After several punches from both sides, including interference from the tank which ran my opponent over, I was bayonetted to the chest which caused a fracture and I belive internal bleeding. (which would count as melee weapon for escalation purposes and I decided to return with slugs, since going 1 tier above is proper escalation). Of course shooting marines is not an easy matter and I was PM'd by Sargash to explain myself, which I did. First Sargash thought it was improper escalation but after sending him the log of me being attacked with a bayonett to the chest he changed it to griefing and stated I had no good reason to start a fight. I disagree with that, I think dragging people away from a medic and verbally abusing them is more than enough reason for a punch. I would not punch him again if he stopped, but the bravo marine decided to go all out and continue fighting me. It is true that I punched him when the tank ran him over but I got him to 50% health, I was going to leave him after this and perhaps even throw him a bicard pill. He was certainly not in the danger of dying. I know how to fight properly and within the rules considering I have no prior escalation notes (I hope, I was never PM'd about anything) and I often report improper escalation when others do it. I think getting a note for what I did is unfair and the note should be removed. (Not sure if I need to make a separate appeal for that.)

Evidence (screenshots, logs, etc): [1] Where I was healing along with other medics - https://puu.sh/B2ZuG/ec63b3ad84.png
I would like to request logs of PM's between me and Sargash, all of them, it shouldn't be that many.
Also the combat logs and say logs from me and the bravo marine.
Unfortunately I didn't manage to save more from my side.

How you would punish the accused: I think just a talking-to is enough, no need to go overboard.

Imperator_Titan · Post by **Imperator_Titan** » 25 Jul 2018, 17:56

Logs of the conflict:

► Show Spoiler

Logs between Sargash and LaKiller8

► Show Spoiler

RobBrown4PM · Post by **RobBrown4PM** » 25 Jul 2018, 18:11

It should be noted that the player who was slugged was not the player who bayoneted the accused, though was the same player who the complainant was engaged in the fist fight with.

LaKiller8 · Post by **LaKiller8** » 25 Jul 2018, 18:53

Yeah in the heat of the moment it's hard to tell who bayonetted you when your life is in the line, I assumed it would be the person I was fighting the whole time.

Sargash · Post by **Sargash** » 25 Jul 2018, 19:33

Ya, some of my PMs seem to have been eaten. I explained twice, or thought I had explained twice that it was a different player entirely that bayoneted you. Barricades were wide open (And some weren't even set up) hell even during the altercation a lurker ran through from lambda and down past church. A number of players on screen were shooting xenos. It was a frontline situation, though nothing was in sight immediately. I never saw the player move anyone on my end, and I do admit I probably should have pursued that bit. But I came in at the first punch that was thrown.

The biggest issue is you continued to punch the downed player over and over after he'd been run over by a tank. The other player in the altercation stood up and left, pulling his gun out to shoot xenos at the 'cades. I assume. That's when you started shooting. The player you had been fighting was behind a number of other people. And to me it looked very much like you were just shooting indiscriminately at other plays fighting after you stood up.

Again, the parts that bother me are you shot innocents. Almost multiple innocents, but the slugs missed multiple players. And you shot at them after they'd left as well, after they'd been beaten while on the ground.

I do not believe the note should be removed. Certainly looking back on it, it deserves to be re-written and changed a bit to be more accurate. Which can be done. As well as I'm also at fault for no pursuing the accused, but that was on the basis you were shooting slugs into a crowd of marines. At that point is when I slept you for a short period, as no one was returning fire, and it seemed for all intents and purposes that you were either A:Griefing Or B: Very made, and needed to cool down. That's why I tapped you with sleep, and brought you back up, because I knew you were a medic. I do not believe you had the intent to grief, but I believe you did. That, coupled with how you adamantly refused to even acknowledge any wrong doings (Granted I was being quite accusatory) is was persuaded me to leave you with a simple note on record.

LaKiller8 · Post by **LaKiller8** » 25 Jul 2018, 20:11

I didn't get any PM about being bayonetted by someone completely different, so I worked with the assumption it was only me and the marine I was fighting with. Again, it's easy to not notice it in the heat of the moment, but you have the power of logs, most of my logs were scrolled away due to chat/dchat. Also I only shot once and wasn't going to shoot any more as one slug is already damaging enough. Now let's assume my intent was to grief, I would have beat that marine until he couldn't stand up, not until 50% health. That is a very light beating. If I was made aware of the fact I shot the wrong guy, I would have handled this situation completely differently.

Sargash · Post by **Sargash** » 25 Jul 2018, 20:25

You shot three times. The first two slugs missed your target, the third one hit a different person. And you did keep beating him after he stood up, but someone else bayonetted you, which knocked you down, then both guys ran off to fight a couple tiles away. You proceeded to shoot at someone in specific, I'm not sure really who you were aiming for. But you fired three slugs. You keep saying heat of the moment. That being said, if you hadn't been knocked down, what would have stopped you from continuing to beat him if someone else hadn't knocked you down. What would have stopped you from continuing to shoot at the wrong person? I understand people get upset, angry, or over-step. It's why I left a note. It's why I put you to sleep for a moment.

LaKiller8 · Post by **LaKiller8** » 25 Jul 2018, 20:33

Well that's one issue with sleeping people too early. Also considering I have no other notes about griefing/escalation with so many connections and hours played I should get the benefit of the doubt. During your whole interaction with me you were set on me being nothing but a griefer without trying to see things from my side - a dude interrupting my work, shittalking me, and continuing the fight after my single "stop it" punch is what I saw.

Sargash · Post by **Sargash** » 25 Jul 2018, 20:57

'Stop it' punches don't exist in a game where people don't feel pain. I was set on explaining the situation. You would not come to terms with the issue. So I set a note on it. That still seems to be an issue, so it will remain. I do not believe my actions have over-stepped any bounds, or broken any protocol by which I am held. I have explained where I believe you did wrong. My reasoning for it.

LaKiller8 · Post by **LaKiller8** » 25 Jul 2018, 21:05

So if I understand correctly, the main issue is that I threw the first punch (which is stupid, people punch other people all the time for IC reasons and if you started to enforce that, at least 20 people would be noted each round. People punch for FF all the time and everyone just accepts it, you shot them, you eat the punch), which highlights my last message to you:

[13:39:06]ADMIN: PM: LaKiller8/(Thomas Echard)->Sargash/(Lillian Hook): So dragging patients away and talking shit is not enough reason to start a fight?

That is more of a reason than 50% of the punches I just described.

I am willing to accept me being wrong, which is me slugging the wrong guy. I apologize and I will always check the logs in the future. But I refuse to apologize when I did nothing wrong.

Emeraldblood · Post by **Emeraldblood** » 27 Jul 2018, 22:36

I'd say your behavior was LRP at best as "I could have just healed them after I hurt/killed them." isn't a reasonable thing to say. You also started to shoot slugs around and hit the tank and someone who wasn't even involved in your fight with that guy. That alone is a problem as shooting guns around large groups of Marine is not something you should just be doing. You got a note and didn't even get a ban for this. Sargash didn't overstep any boundaries and probably cut you some slack in that area. The note doesn't misrepresent what went down and given it's just a warning, so we'll end it there.

Resolved - No punishment will be handled to Sargash. Just stay out of trouble and this will hardly matter in the future.

Sargash Staff Report

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