William 'Jester' Crimson

[Electrolyz]

Your Byond Key: Electrolyz

Your Character Name: Tanner 'Frozone' Bash

Accused Byond Key(if known): Unknown

Character Name: William 'Jester' Crimson

Approximate time and date of the incident (Central US Time for fastest results): 3:15 PM EST, 7/31/2018

What rule(s) were broken: BE guidelines

Description of the incident: Remnants of Charlie squad were angry at the CO (Crimson) for using MPs to forcefully deny a rescue operation for marines on the captured Alamo, so I (charlie squad marine) led marines up to the CIC door to ask the CO why he was making decisions like this, etc. We, in essence, knocked on the door for about five minutes. We didn't use any type of force, just stood there. We were ordered to the hangar by the CO at which point we refused to leave. I saw the shutters come up and someone coming to open the door, so I tried to push past whoever it was to let the other Charlies inside. I was instantly BE'd with one shot by the CO, and that's justified, sure. What he did next was the unacceptable bit. The CO and another SO which he ordered to assist him in the following proceeded to indiscriminately fire into the crowd of Charlie marines that were just standing still, no weapons out, trying to reason with the CO. He later blamed it on the Mateba's accuracy. Also, he admitted to going AFK for "99% of the round" (fine if he ahelped).

Evidence (screenshots, logs, etc): Logs, witnesses.

How you would punish the accused: Removal from CO whitelist based upon today's events and the numerous other reports against him floating around currently.

[Avalanchee]

I saw it all as a Spectator

I can confirm that CO fired 3 times, and hit 3 times.
He decapped a marine and badly injured two others in the crowd.

Right when he did that a random LT with a Mk221 shot in the crowd with Slugs one-twice then CIC shutters closed again.

Also, you were standing in CIC hallways instead of following the order he gave you, remember that.


EDIT 1 - Some guys in Discord Last Round chat said that the XO ORDERED Charlie to move to CIC.

[FGRSentinel]

Yeah, this story's changed so many times. First it was "CO ordered Charlie to defend CIC and then started BEing them," then it was "CO's hunting down Charlie for following orders," then "XO ordered Charlie to CIC and CO BE'd one of them," and now "Charlie went to CIC to demand answers from the CO. In one of the stories I heard, part of Delta was there too. The guy who posted this changed the story at least once himself just putting it here. To me it seemed more like Charlie was trying to trigger a mutiny than anything else in hindsight.

[dasWurmtMich]

While I was still alive on the alamo I had access to the command channel as aSL. The fear of the mutiny seemingly came from me (a delta squad medic aSL captured in the alamo) because I shouted multiple times to get people to lynch the commander , both in delta comms and in command comms (My IC reasons: 1) the command staff advertising a suicide charge as rescue mission at first before the normandy took off and 2) recalling the normandy so everyone from the push was doomed. I also heared the ORDER that charlie should come and hold in the CIC

Now, me shouting to lynch the CO (and I think I also yelled to kill the entire CIC staff once) is just an IC issue.

But me shouting to lynch the commander doesnt give him the right to just BE a random charlie squadie and just open up on the rest. That'd break the BE and lethal force rule.

[solidfury7]

Hey dude, I'll set the scene for you and break down this post.

Description of the incident: Remnants of Charlie squad were angry at the CO (Crimson) for using MPs to forcefully deny a rescue operation for marines on the captured Alamo, so I (charlie squad marine) led marines up to the CIC door to ask the CO why he was making decisions like this, etc. We, in essence, knocked on the door for about five minutes. We didn't use any type of force, just stood there. We were ordered to the hangar by the CO at which point we refused to leave. I saw the shutters come up and someone coming to open the door, so I tried to push past whoever it was to let the other Charlies inside. I was instantly BE'd with one shot by the CO, and that's justified, sure. What he did next was the unacceptable bit. The CO and another SO which he ordered to assist him in the following proceeded to indiscriminately fire into the crowd of Charlie marines that were just standing still, no weapons out, trying to reason with the CO. He later blamed it on the Mateba's accuracy. Also, he admitted to going AFK for "99% of the round" (fine if he ahelped).

I made an announcement that no marines would be allowed in the CIC, they were instead to form up in the hanger for a counter-attack.

I came out after I was told there were some charlie marines assembling outside the CIC by my Lieutenant, he informed me that they wanted to harm me or mutiny, something along those lines.

Now, someone began to shoot the wall next to the doors (In the manner to breach it)

So, I went out to yell at you all, weapon out due to my LTs warning.

When I went out to yell at you to get to the hanger and do your duty,, instead you attempted to rush in to the CIC, after I was warned you may be hostile, during a red alert, while Aliens were flying a dropship which would crash in to the side of the ship, while we were undermanned and barely keeping a grip on the situation.

The first shot decapped you, I believe, and then the following two were simply shots designed to eliminate you which carried on and hit two people behind you.

After the two other shots missed and one or two marines opened fire, I closed the door and the shutters.

The Marines proceeded to breach into the CIC further and I sent out a synth to negotiate. (I actually said in LOOC about how I dislike BEs, even when I feel my hand is forced)

I aided with the negotiations after and allowed the mutineers to go freely.
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Regarding the AFK comment, I probably should have said semi-SSD.

I came on as there had been reports of an XO who was extremely new (But a good RPer) and I decided to give him a helping hand and push him in the right direction.

After doing a briefing on his behalf, after a few hiccups he experienced, I realised I had to print out a few things for IRL, (However, It jammed so it turned from being a few second job to a 10-20 minute job).

I stuck around semi-SSD for any prominent issues, simply because the XO was green as grass and he was technically in charge of the operation. (There were only one other mentor online, and they were busy)

So, during the round, I dealt with a few such as the XO being demoted and assigning another Lieutenant as the operational commander, during my semi-SSD state as well as giving the Lieutenants orders about hydro.

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We did have reports of people advocating mutiny in Delta and some similar elements charlie,

[Rafar9]

I was observing this whole mess as a ghost.

I join as an observer, watch the Xenos do their thing for a few minute, then go to CIC to see what's happening. Outside, I see two marines outside CIC doors were opening up on the wall with shotties, which one other marine attempted to stop them doing (forget who). From what I could see, this was simply out of impatience, as all 6 marines had been yelling to get in for about 3-4 minutes now, with little to no satisfactory response. Crimson then finally comes out, understandably wary considering captured marines had been screaming death threats at him over comms near-constantly and the aforementioned shotgun shots. There is a brief struggle near the door with marines attempting to enter and then Crimson opens up with three Mateba shots, decapping one marine and heavily wounding another. The CO then retreats back within CIC, and locks down the doors. After about 5 minutes of marines screaming over the comms, they C4 the outer doors and enter the lobby, at which point they begin to negotiate with the synth. Eventually, they simply ask to leave, and they are allowed out into a barrage of tear gas grenades fired by the MPs.

The WO had earlier called for MPs to collect riot gear and tear gas launchers to subdue the marines after they had already entered the lobby and began negotiating so take that as you will.

There is a whole lot else that goes on after this, but as that is not central to the report I will not repeat it here.

In the end, I believe it was a misunderstanding, however, it started. Crimson was getting a lot of hostility and threats aimed at him before the marines opened fire on CIC doors, which is a factor that I think is important to take into account. Was it perhaps a bad BE? Perhaps, if he truly thought they were hostile the MPs could have easily snuck up behind the marines and tear gassed them like they did a few minutes later, but I am not gonna profess to know how BE work down to the letter. I don't really think this is worthy of white-list removal, perhaps a warning, but I'll leave that up to those more experienced.

Edit: As FGR said the marine's story seems to have changed quite a few times. If I'm remembering correctly, tanner himself was saying they were trying to get in cause the XO ordered them in so *shrug*

[Solarmare]

Having the name of the XO and SO here would be of use in pulling logs of the incident.

[FGRSentinel]

I honestly can't help much in that regard, Solarmare. All I can really add is to state the different versions I heard, two of which were shouted by a Charlie in the hangar that actually sounded like they were trying to incite a mutiny once the CO and XO explained the situation (the first being that the CO ordered Charlie to the bridge and just started shooting them without warning and the second being that he was starting a manhunt for Charlies that were following orders), a third was given by Tanner in dead chat (the "XO ordered us to defend CIC" one), and the one they gave here (the "we went to the CIC to demand answers from the CO and he BE'd me without warning" one). Of note is that Tanner actually said he posted this report during the round and he was spouting out the third story both before and after making this report, so that might be worth taking into account in this case since it calls the validity of both stories into question.

What I can say is I remember the CO giving orders for all marines to defend the hangar and a few minutes later the Charlie Marine started screaming that the CO was starting a manhunt for Charlie, so either Charlie ignored the CO's orders to march up there and demand answers while there was a potential mutiny threat (which, honestly, makes them extremely likely mutineers) or they decided to follow the XO's orders over the CO's, which puts them in the same position as the first option. After that there were claims that the MPs were mass-arresting Charlie and I contacted the CO and XO about it (as by the previous point I was aSL of Delta) and found out that they were marked for arrest at one point, but the arrest was cancelled, so I think the MPs hitting them with tear gas and arresting them was the usual thing of MPs not knowing when to relax or the CMP not getting the information out in time. So yeah, I'm just going to say here what was my response to events as I heard about them during the round: Command's orders may have been questionable, but it sounded like the Normandy wasn't supposed to take off without the Marines and it honestly sounded like Charlie Marines were BE'd either for mutinying or appearing to mutiny, so Crimson's BE seemed perfectly reasonable considering the MPs weren't there at that moment and he had a group of aggressive Marines trying to get into CIC.

[Herac]

I was in Charlie squad that round, having late joined after DS2 was sent down. This is all just from my perspective and my memory.

Following the hijack message the XO (I can't remember their name, sorry) ordered Charlie to come to CIC. Elements of Charlie proceded to CIC, which was on lockdown, and shot at the walls to try and get in. The CO made an announcement saying that all marines should are to hold in the hangar. I believe this was done before the BE took place.
At some point after this the CO came outside and shot 3 marines, two of whom died as a result.

I arrived after this and also attempted to gain access to CIC, ICly I was upset about the death of squad mates who, from my perspective, were just following orders. In the end Cynthia began to handle negotiations on behalf of the CO with Charlie and the one Bravo who had come with us. After a little bit of a standoff we left CIC (Cynthia opened the door for us) and were ambushed by MPs in the hallway, which I ran away and hid from before going down to the hangar and trying to stir things up a little bit (I couldn't find 5 people to join me, though).

In all honesty I don't think that Crimson had to BE those marines but I can understand why the CO would think that marines ignoring his orders to head to the hangar and shooting the walls to get into CIC would be a threat. If they had been warned before hand that those marines were a threat then I think it's pretty fair to say they'd be on guard.

[Rohesie]

Having the name of the XO and SO here would be of use in pulling logs of the incident.

Character witness. I observed that round and played some as xeno.

The only Staff Officers that I have logged talking that round were LT Jake North and LT Anders Green.

The XO was LCDR Quentin Werry.

[FGRSentinel]

Yeah, I remember Green. For some reason when Delta was asking for a new aSL while our captured aSL was calling for a mutiny they deliberately gave us an SSD aSL just to "shut the aSL up," which we didn't know at the time but the next 2-5 minutes spent screaming into the void for a conscious/noncaptured aSL got Delta to the point where we almost mutinied. I was made aSL and the claims from Charlie and reports from the other Deltas (I was a fairly late joiner, I arrived just a bit before the PO was executed) was enough for me to actually try to rally Delta for a mutiny, but we all decided to take a moment to relax and get our heads together once we heard what was going on. IC and OOC I have no idea of Charlie was mutinying or not, but from how vocal the initial aSL was in trying to trigger a mutiny (which went on until they burst on Alamo) and the fact they were calling for it in command frequencies apparently I wouldn't be surprised if Crimson just assumed the group of Charlies that gathered outside CIC and started shooting the wall were in open mutiny, especially since, as Herac said, they stayed there after the CO ordered everyone to the hangar.

Do I think the incident and everything leading up to it could have been handled better? Yeah, but it could have been handled better by Charlie too. Trying to shoot into CIC when there was a potential mutiny threat is basically the equivalent of walking onto a battlefield waving a flag that says "Kill me now!" if you ask me and icly the CO's actions felt perfectly justified.

[TR-BlackDragon]

After doing some log diving.. I noted that the Mateba was fired three times in rapid succession. in a matter of a second. After which Lt. Jake North fired a shotgun and hit another player. As of what i can see. Charlie squad failed to follow orders to defend the hanger. Instead gathered unmass outside the CIC, Which with him being told their could be a possible mutiny and the fact that some of the marines fired weapons outside the CIC and then a marine pushing into the lobby shows aggression. That was a legit BE. However the LT. shooting was not legit.

In which case i will leave the judgement for punishment for that person to one of the bosses.

[Sir Lordington]

SO Jake North fired against the marines once. However, there are no logs of Crimson ordering the SO to do anything so he is not at fault for that.

As for the validity of the BE, you had lead a group of your squad to the CIC and stayed there disobeying orders and hurling insults at the Commanding Officer during a Code Red situation. Assuming hostile intent was more than reasonable, so the execution is justified.

There is no reason to punish Solidfury here. Jake North will receive a warning not to participate in battlefield executions.

Resolved.