Staff Report - SailorDave Cheating.

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oprayx73
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Re: Staff Report - SailorDave Cheating.

Post by oprayx73 » 04 Oct 2018, 17:34

Here's a bit of evidence/observation i've seen about sailordave's play.
This is not for or against him, this is so you can make your own decision based on what you see.

https://puu.sh/BFK2o/d46843c791.mp4
In this video, Mature Lurker 462 is SailorDave.
He makes some odd movements compared to his teammates that are the same exact caste ( and similar ) that are in the
same exact situation.
https://imgur.com/jaz8zqQ
In this gif & on the video, the lurker on the right shifts from;

-northfacing
Image
to left facing
Image
This is induced by spamclicking on the opponent. We all do it.
However, Dave's shifting is insanely fast. And always in the direction of the opponent, even when pushed around by his own teammates unpredictably.
& moving around erratically- not even counting the predator's movements and evasions.
This mean's he's spamclicking like a madman inanely fast and accurately. Could just be some pretty sick skill.

Meanwhile in both the runner & defender video(s) supplied by dave-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRsejA9knLY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ImF7kVD7A4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Bvjajw ... e=youtu.be

He is playing like ass compared to what he's capable of in the videos and against me personally,
not trying to rag against him. I really enjoy fighting him, he's a great challenge & you have alot of fun with the guy, he's cool.

There is also little to nowhere near as much speedy towards-the-enemy-then-shifting-where-hes-moving movements
in those videos at ALL. He's insanely slow compared to the videos people take of him.
There is a difference between the videos he takes and the videos people take. I'm not sure why.

Edit:
Image
He has knowledge of cheating that not even I do, in my years of CM.


Again, i'll go over that it's just my observation/evidence I'm not for or against the report in anyway. This is for YOU
to make your decision.


i don't accuse or absolve sailor dave of any guilt this is just my observation
Last edited by oprayx73 on 04 Oct 2018, 19:07, edited 1 time in total.
Cut them xenos up with yer machete! :D

Muhrene Name : Boris Bourbon
Synthetic Name : Abraham
Predator Name : Cuthun Dak'te

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Drownie
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Re: Staff Report - SailorDave Cheating.

Post by Drownie » 04 Oct 2018, 18:02

spookydonut wrote:
04 Oct 2018, 00:58
He has been a member of this community for 3 years, has always been a positive influence on it, and there was no proof presented that he was cheating (still isn't). As a result of this allegation he has been personally attacked by others in the community.
I guess you just screwed up the definition of personal attack in many ways.
A personal attack is when I direct to him as a Person and not as a Player, I'm saying that he as a Player is may using cheats on his favour, I never directed any word to him that is beyond that. Saying that I won't be "pleased" in any ways no matter he proves otherwise or not is a direct attack to me as Person, you're basically saying I'm an egoist person that is here just to cause drama and I probably have hatred for him.
If you're not going to add anything to the report further than offenses, I kindly ask you to leave.
Last edited by Drownie on 04 Oct 2018, 19:37, edited 1 time in total.
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Drownie
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Re: Staff Report - SailorDave Cheating.

Post by Drownie » 04 Oct 2018, 19:24

Opray mostly burned the rest of my video, so I have no need to upload it but use the statistics as argument.
I'll not take the Defender videos as example because we don't have evidence in video of the Defender fight, but I guess It's for sure that a Defender that managed to kill three Preds will note lose easily to only one.

Shaq X Sailor
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Sailor x Bobby
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Sailor x Jay
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Now I shall ask you, why when Sailor had full advantage on his side he did A LOT worse than in the evidence videos?
Why Sailor don't have the same behavior of 90%~100% accuracy as in the evidence videos?

I believe the best way to him prove his points is make the duel in the same exact conditions as the evidence shows, those videos are nothing compared to the evidence ones.
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Emeraldblood
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Re: Staff Report - SailorDave Cheating.

Post by Emeraldblood » 04 Oct 2018, 20:09

Right, Drownie isn't in trouble for making this report and neither is anyone else who believes that Dave may be cheating. As for the outcome of this report, there's nothing here that proves Dave is cheating, merely speculations. I'll explain all the reasons for this outcome.

Lack of solid evidence: The best argument for Dave cheating is that he's using some script to do so, however, no one has been able to prove such a script exists or that Dave is, without a doubt, using it. Dave provided videos and while some may say they're clearly different in skill, being an exact reproduction of a previous video is an unreasonable requirement in a game like ours. The videos still show he's a very capable player when it comes to dueling other's, like predators. This leads to the report holding a weak argument.
While I'm not saying this report is poorly done/without basis, the current argument held against Dave is weak, hard to prove, and can pretty much apply to anyone. Simply saying someone is cheating and how they might do it, along with a video of them playing good at the time, isn't enough to go off of. Nothing in the videos shown was impossible to do or extremely out there given the current situation. People will say he was abusing the MMB exploit in the past, and while we can't prove/disprove that, the argument given is he was using the MMB exploit and once we patched it, he went out to program a whole new program just to help him land extra hits when dueling someone like a predator. There are too many assumptions in this argument for it to be considered more likely that he's just good at certain things.

Sailor Dave's record with CM: Dave is a long time staff and player. I don't know the exact times off the top of my head but I'm pretty sure it's multiple years at this point. Dave doesn't cause drama, he always does his part for the server, and whenever I've seen this brought up against me he's always been reasonable in his responses. While someone with a more dubious reputation may have that going against them, Dave does not fall under that category. Does this mean he can do no wrong? No, but it obviously means that someone like Dave doing all of this seems less reasonable.

Final Outcome: As I stated, this investigation isn't being held against Dave and will be dropped. There's no solid evidence he's cheating and Dave hasn't/doesn't come off as that kind of guy. I already know certain people will call me an idiot or, "a prime example of how terrible the CM head staff are," but their expectations are unjust as far as I'm concerned. Simply because someone could possibly be cheating doesn't mean I should remove/restrict a possibly innocent person from our server. While it's easy to judge this from a third person point of view, it'd be vastly unfair for anyone having these accusations placed upon them. If I did mark Dave as guilty for this, pretty much anyone could be flagged as cheating for simply playing well at one point and thus getting banned from the server; so while it's all fun while it's not you being accused, this being resolved as guilty would make it a lot worse everyone. If we're at the point people need to open up spreadsheets of comparing two videos to find anything wrong with them, then clearly there's not enough wrong.

If anyone has anything to bring up regarding this report, you're free to bring it up to me in forum PMs and I'll read whatever you want to say but no one should be harassing Sailor Dave over this at this point. If you are harassing Dave about it, you will get in trouble. If you do want to send me evidence, here is what I don't want to see:
  • Random discord PMs/whatevers of Sailor Dave talking about, "a random thing that can vaguely be connected to him possibly knowing how to exploit the game." This is not evidence, this is some contextless chat trying to be used against him.
  • Spreadsheets of data from a few rounds about him landing x attacks per-second or whatever. Unless you have a very large sample size which shows solid evidence that something is up, these are meaningless. Everyone is not going to replicate the exact results every time and saying that he did bad one round does not mean he's cheating. If you can manage to somehow prove that Dave is too good for any human, I will listen, but you still need actual evidence.
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slc97
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Re: Staff Report - SailorDave Cheating.

Post by slc97 » 04 Oct 2018, 20:30

I'm not in reports often anymore, and have stepped back quite a bit, but I'm gonna go off book here, and tl;dr some of what Em said, refute some silly ass nonsense in one of Oprayx's comments and tell you exactly what this report comes down to.

To tl;dr Em, doing an arithmetic average of Dave's clicks per minute at most proves he's a Korean StarCraft player. Unless you can show prove on something that should be mechanically impossible, clicking really fast isn't cheating.

One of Oprayx's comments was brought to my attention. Oprayx used the fact that Dave knows about click macros as "evidence" against him. We used to have a huge click macro problem. Most long-time staff know about click macros. I am notably too retarded to make one for myself, but I know about the days of click macros and their existence still. Does this mean I cheat all those times that I never play the game?

My final observation on this report is something that I believe Em alluded to but did not emphasize nearly enough. While we are not punishing the reporter because we understand their frustration, the report itself is utterly BASELESS. I have known Dave for a long time, and I wish I had used some of that time to know him better because I don't know him very well on a personal level, but I know 2 things about him. Dave plays the fuck out of this game. His hours on mind-boggling. When we discussed this report, Jamie pointed out the old "10,000 hours to become a complete master at something" and that Dave's hours would put him at least a tenth of the way to that. Finally, Dave is fuckin loves this game and community. He is one of the few people that I can say without a doubt would never do anything to debase the integrity of the game or the community for his own benefit or enjoyment. Dude's just good at the game.

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