Staff Report - SailorDave Cheating.

[Drownie]

Your Byond Key: Drownie

Your Character Name: Sarah ‘Menace’ Dennis / Shaq’Klahoo

Their Byond key: SailorDave

Approximate time and date of the incident (Central Us Time for best results): None.

Which Staff Protocols (http://www.colonial-marines.com/viewtop ... =57&t=5647) were broken: Rule 5. No powergaming.

Description of the incident:

I’ll start by saying that SailorDave’s actions have already been acknowledged by another Predators before me, that discussion have stayed in the dark for a long time and I believe I’m the only one explaining all the story to the general playerbase.
Yes, the video posted in #Shitposting by driecg36 on Discord was Sailor fighting me, and yes I’m aware that this already have been taken to a Head but no actions have been made. I’ll make a fast dossier of the events that led me to think he is using some sort of exploit.

09/21/2018

Mature Defender becoming Elder soon has killed about two Predators on 1x1 fight, I decide to avenge them and fight him – you know what happened, he had a 100% accuracy hit where all times he was facing me he did headbutt or slash. He ended up killing three Preds and dying to a Hellhound called “Garfield” that bodyblocked him. At this point, I wasn’t aware of his fame nor his “vital” hits.

09/22/2018

A Young Runner was constantly harassing me and another Pred by running at us at high speed and ALWAYS hitting us, I wasn’t sure of the identity of the Runner until I kill him with a Heavy Caster – we were in that combat over 10 minutes and I was in the best words “salty”. After killing him, I said in LOOC “Feel free to make a PlayerReport” and get a response of Sailor in his ckey “Why would I do it, Drownie my dude?”.

Well, later in the same round I found another Runner (Mature Runner 259) and after some hissing and stuff I decided to engage in a honor duel with him as he was showing himself good with it. The results of this duel can be seen in the “Evidence” section, in that round I’ve became aware of a really awkward behavior where he could hit me while moving in high speeds, he could even hit me while I was changing the tile (when you do that, in over 0.1 milliseconds your body stay half on the next tile and the last tile). You can see him confirming that was the Lurker in DMs log.
In that round, Lumdor (Staff and Pred Player), Dried (Ex-Staff and Pred Player) also accused him.
Also, you can see on 0:05 him hitting an invisible Pred, check the chat log.

09/22/2018

In a way to confirm my concerns, I DMed him in Discord – you can see the log of the conversation at the “Evidence” section.

10/02/2018

Ice Colony, as Pred I see a Lurker (Mature Lurker (462) and I engage in combat with him as he was showing himself good with it. At the first 30 seconds I got hit multiple times and I already noticed Sailor Modus Operandi what led me to stop the duel and move to the Pred ship to ghost and ask a Staff Member for the Lurker ckey, and obviously he confirmed me that the Lurker was Sailor.
I decided to observe his round and see a fight of him x Jayfeather Pred, that fight was recorded and can be seen in the “Evidence” section, I guess you’re already aware of what happened. Later, Jay confirmed me that he indeed saw “unusual skills” coming from the Lurker.
Now, we got Drownie, DriedCg, Lumdor and Jay against him.


Evidence (screenshots, logs, etc):

09/21/2018
Not going too far on this, you can read him confirmating it on the Discord DMs section.

09/22/2018
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EApbVww ... e=youtu.be

09/22/2018
https://pastebin.com/ibExg1sU

10/02/2018
https://youtu.be/GkbBAW2-D20 Starts at 15:14.

How you would punish the accused:
That’s up to Staff.

[Oaks]

Speaking as a character witness, I know Dave has always made it his business to hunt preds as xeno, especially the new ones. This was pretty clear during my time with him as a fellow mentor, where I frequently saw him aghosting around for his own gain. (Though that was usually when he himself is a pred, not sure if he does it as xeno) I'll be blunt and admit that I don't really care for him as a player, or how he carries himself within the community. That said, hes one of the oldest around, and I think his experience at clicking on sprites within the engine shows. This witch hunt doesn't seem very valid, it's simply a matter of less experienced players getting beat up by an old one.

[Jayfeather]

Oh dear. Drownie asked me a buncha questions related to this and turns out it'll turn into a full player and staff report. And they're using my video of a particular Dave's skill/hax as a bit of proof.

No matter, I shall stand as a witness I guess.

Yeah, I noticed in my little play through in the video drownie asked for that SailorDave was quite exceptional at the ability of clicking. He was Lurker (462). Quite a few of instantaneous slashes are a bit odd. But I can't exactly call him on it when I simply haven't seen him enough alone.

Though I've bested him on my first day and first hunt as my predator, which he remarkably almost beat me in as an Ancient Defender. For now, I will stand on neutral-edging towards conviction because I simply, once again, have never seen him play often.

[Drownie]

Speaking as a character witness, I know Dave has always made it his business to hunt preds as xeno, especially the new ones. This was pretty clear during my time with him as a fellow mentor, where I frequently saw him aghosting around for his own gain. (Though that was usually when he himself is a pred, not sure if he does it as xeno) I'll be blunt and admit that I don't really care for him as a player, or how he carries himself within the community. That said, hes one of the oldest around, and I think his experience at clicking on sprites within the engine shows. This witch hunt doesn't seem very valid, it's simply a matter of less experienced players getting beat up by an old one.

So your argument is that he's old, so therefore he's good?
We got Ordukai, MauroVega, Apop, Feweh and many others that are old and older than him and play at an acceptable level, I don't think you can hit a cloaked Pred that was walking around simply because your mouse wanted to. Sailor's level of skill is unique, there's absolutely no one that has his level of accuracy and "quick-time response", we already got exploits here such as MMB and he could be using a variant.

Let's wait for him to defend himself so we can comment about it.

[Emeraldblood]

Let me preemptively state that, "Sailor Dave killed me once" is not a valid excuse to rally against him. Unless you have any substantial proof or scenarios with him, it's unlikely you're going to add anything to the case.

Regarding this as a whole, unless someone has some solid evidence that he's cheating, I'm not really in the mood to start a witch hunt against someone with the reasoning of, "He's too good so he must be cheating." The videos do not prove he is cheating and while he lands some impressive hits, there's nothing there that is physically impossible to do. I'm sure SailorDave will comment on this but I don't see anything here that proves, without a doubt, he's cheating.

[spookydonut]

As above, I went through a previous video that was given to me by a concerned staff member and couldn't find anything that was mechanically impossible.

[Drownie]

I don't think I got your point right, so let me get this straight.

"Not impossible therefore no cheat".
First of all, you're implying cheats are only done to make impossible things in games - in the MMB glitch we know that it doesn't give anyone superpower but make the line between hardness and accomplishment almost zero.
So, if we're going to basis our arguments in "not impossible therefore no cheat" let's downgrade the Byond version and allow MMB. Let's make a vote to BF don't ban aimbot anymore, because always hit HS isn't impossible.

That appeal wasn't made because he killed me twice or once, but because his skills and most of his plays are highly awkward to a human level. I really don't understand your point.

[spookydonut]

I mean that the videos don't definitely prove he's cheating and even if you literally stood over his shoulder and watched him play I doubt you'd ever be satisfied that he wasn't cheating.
This is categorically a witch hunt.

[Sailor Dave]

I'm on my phone right now, so this might seem a bit rambly and disorganized, but I'll reiterate what I told lumdor a bit earlier.

I don't like fucking with people, I have a lot of respect for everyone who plays this game, even if they're rude dudes sometimes. Because of that respect, I care a lot about other people's experience so they have a good time playing. I've tried to be an advocate for the community with both xenos and predators, trying to help people get the recognition they deserve so they can do the fancy fun things too. I don't get my kicks from beating people or showing off.

I fight predators because they're actually able to take a beating, and I kinda feel bad about killing Marines really quickly even though it's the point of the game. Even that much I feel bad about, so I always try to give them the chance to bail out of a fight, or sometimes I'll just walk away myself. It usually doesn't work because of the predator honor thing, but I try anyways.

I'm definitely willing to take a video of me playing, I'm just concerned because I didn't think I had been enough of a fucker to make people think I would do this, and I worry that people will still think I'm doing insidious shit 'behind the scenes' or whatever.

[spookydonut]

I'm definitely willing to take a video of me playing, I'm just concerned because I didn't think I had been enough of a fucker to make people think I would do this, and I worry that people will still think I'm doing insidious shit 'behind the scenes' or whatever.

This is exactly my point.

[Avalanchee]

As someone who is often separated from the group I fought Dave few times already,

When he plays as a defender he usually dominates everyone with the headbutt spam (3x hit = fracture, tested on B18) until someone PBs him with Buckshot.

thing that stopped me before is the amount of slashes/hits he can land even on someone without armor who is using completely random un-predictable movement patterns.

He is just too good for CMs.
And if you ask for a video, everyone can just turn their stuff off and tryhard to make themselves look innocent.

I don't think dave is cheating or anything,
He might be abusing some bugs or stuff but I think he is just big brained.

[Tharinoma]

This should be in the player report section, mentors don't have access to any buttons that would facilitate the suspected "cheating".

[driecg36]

I mean that the videos don't definitely prove he's cheating and even if you literally stood over his shoulder and watched him play I doubt you'd ever be satisfied that he wasn't cheating.
This is categorically a witch hunt.

I don't think this could be less of a witch hunt if we tried. Most of us liked sailor dave before this, and a lot of the people accusing him, such as Lumdor, are "categorically" the type of people who would never witch hunt someone.

In terms of my experience, I was one of the three preds dave killed as a mature defender in Lumdor's example. I'll only speak for my duel with him, because it was the only one I really witnessed.

I ran up to dave's defender, not knowing it was dave, and challenged him to a duel, as he had killed the other two predators. He then told me in LOOC he was having "connection problems," and logged off for about 20-30 seconds, after which his connection was magically fixed (so much so that he acted as if he had 0 ping). I now believe dave was using this time to perhaps toggle a script, but I have no way of proving that - it just seems suspicious.

He then proceeded to literally play perfectly against me, and I'm not exaggerating when I say that. His damage output could literally not have been higher, as he hit me the instant I came into range, no matter if I was moving predictably or not, and would then proceed to hit me as often as the cooldown allowed it without missing a single beat in the entire fight. I don't care for how long you've played ss13, no amount of time playing a 2d spessmen game would allow you to develop superhuman reflexes like those.

I believe, though I'm not sure if it was ever proved, that Dave was using the middle click bug in the past before it was patched, so it's not like he wouldn't do something like this. Additionally, the first video where dave somehow hits a cloaked predator, who was almost nearly invisible due to the tiles he was on, once again with perfect timing as soon as he comes into range, is pretty damning.

[Sailor Dave]

I've fought many, many predators without having to reconnect. I've had to switch service providers recently and the connection is super unstable because of a damaged cable line, requiring me to switch to phone data temporarily for a consistent connection when it drops for several minutes at a time. That's why I reconnect sometimes. I have a video I've recorded of the current round, but I'll have to wait until it's over to post it.

Round's over: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRsejA9knLY The fight starts at around 2:20 ~ 2:30.

[driecg36]

I've fought many, many predators without having to reconnect. I've had to switch service providers recently and the connection is super unstable because of a damaged cable line, requiring me to switch to phone data temporarily for a consistent connection when it drops for several minutes at a time. That's why I reconnect sometimes. I have a video I've recorded of the current round, but I'll have to wait until it's over to post it.

Round's over: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRsejA9knLY

I'm sorry but it's almost comical how much worse you're playing in this video. You're still good and won without cheats, which I don't think anyone is disputing, but the level of play in this video isn't even close to how you played against those 3 preds the other day - you actually spent time within range of bobby here without hitting him, which is not something you did with the other three preds that one mature defender round.

[Sailor Dave]

It's much, much easier to hit with defender's headbutt because of the 2-tile range. It's basically a short-range pounce. The distance margin for error is much bigger. I can do another one playing defender, I guess.

[driecg36]

It's much, much easier to hit with defender's headbutt because of the 2-tile range. It's basically a short-range pounce. The distance margin for error is much bigger. I can do another one playing defender, I guess.

You were also landing slashes perfectly, not just headbutts.

[Survivor]

This can be removed if necessary, but I do want to note in the video Sailor posted, he really did hit most of his hits but they were blocked by the Combi stick. Without the actual slash noises, it may lead people to believe he was playing a lot worse. If you take that into account, it's pretty close to the videos listed in the main report.


In other words, Sailor is just really good.

[Sailor Dave]

Fighting 1v1 with runner, compared to 1v1 with defender, is a very different and more unwieldy experience. I've said for a good while that defenders are just better against predators, and part of that is the stability provided with slower speed making it easier to time hits, and higher health making it easier to risk trading hits. All of this still varies from predator to predator, because some of you just straight-up fight better and are harder to slip attacks past without taking too many trades. It really isn't as black and white as that. Ask most of the predators I've ever fought and they'll probably tell you I've eaten shit for my cheeky actions almost as much as I've won. I'm not perfect. I have my bad moments, I have my good moments, and so does everyone else I fight.

I'd have to record fights against several of you at different times to get an accurate measure, which I'm not opposed to doing, it's just difficult to get those fights reliably because of the RNG of pred rounds and xeno spawns. Hopefully I'll have another video I can throw up soon.

[Drownie]

I believe it's for sure that we can see between the other videos and this one sent by him we notice a huge difference in the gameplay, anyways, If everything goes right I'll upload soon a full dissection comparing the three videos.

I'm not sure when I'll be able to upload it as I've mostly 4 hours on my free-time and due that a huge delay may happens, I will make sure to be impartial in my analysis as I believe our general objective here is expose the truth.

[Sailor Dave]

Okay well I have the defender video, but I wasn't even paying attention to the fact that I had #yautja chat in the background and staff PMs in the chatlog. I dunno if it's okay for me to post that, and that was the only predator I was able to fight that round.

Edit: I got permission to post it, so here it is in 360p for some reason. I'll have to reupload it later I guess: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ImF7kVD7A4

Here's another one with me fighting marines. I'm not as good against marines because of the numbers and range advantage, and defenders are so slow, but here it is anyway when it finishes uploading: https://youtu.be/9Bvjajw00Tw

[spookydonut]

I believe it's for sure that we can see between the other videos and this one sent by him we notice a huge difference in the gameplay, anyways, If everything goes right I'll upload soon a full dissection comparing the three videos.

I'm not sure when I'll be able to upload it as I've mostly 4 hours on my free-time and due that a huge delay may happens, I will make sure to be impartial in my analysis as I believe our general objective here is expose the truth.

Proved my point right here, he made a video of himself playing and you still weren't satisfied.

[Drownie]

Proved my point right here, he made a video of himself playing and you still weren't satisfied.

Maybe because the gameplay isn't the same altough he had advantage comparing to both situations?
Also, why you're even talking about how I feel about him - that's a personal attack as how I feel about him has nothing to do with the report.
I'm reporting him because he seems awkward and obviously I will make an analysis of his videos and compare to the ones in the evidence section, not sure why you defend him at the point of personal attacking me.

[spookydonut]

He has been a member of this community for 3 years, has always been a positive influence on it, and there was no proof presented that he was cheating (still isn't). As a result of this allegation he has been personally attacked by others in the community.

[Bancrose]

He has been a member of this community for 3 years, has always been a positive influence on it, and there was no proof presented that he was cheating (still isn't). As a result of this allegation he has been personally attacked by others in the community.

Theres a few of us who genuinely believe that when the Middle Mouse Exploit existed that he had abused it, And even though the exploit is now gone there is still ways to go about to guarantee your hits through a third party program. Now I am not sitting here calling Dave a filthy cheater and a liar but I also can't say that in a single video which anyone can just turn off the script while recording.

But most importantly it is not Drownies fault for making this report if they genuinely believe Dave to be using some sort of Script/Hack. I'll agree with Tharinoma, It should be in the Player Report Section.