Javier Bould and Gaius Krieger

[Megalopeos]

Your Byond Key: Megalopeos

Your character name: Myron Simonides

Their character name: Javier Bould and Gaius Krieger

Their Byond key (optional - if you know it): N/A

Approximate time and date of the incident (Central US Time for fastest results): 12:30 PM 8/26/2015

What rule(s) were broken: Rule 1. Rule 3. Rule 9.

Description of the incident: I have 2 rounds actually, before this round, (the one I'm complaining about) I was constantly beaten by Javier and Gaius, and they even amputated my legs. This round, I join in, ask the CO to change my job to Journalist, so I'm at the line and Javier Bould comes and says "DROP OFFICER EQUIPMENT." I move one tile when he, suddenly tries to remove my hat, and he stuns me over 10 times, cuffs me, and suggests amputating my legs. Later on, I'm at the Hangar, and the CO tells me to drop my bag to search, so I drop it, and Javier comes in again and tells me to "DROP OFFICER EQUIPMENT." At this point I'm tired of these 2 fucks, so I beat the CO in the head with a toolbox, I get shot, stunned, and I am taken to the Medbay to get amputated.

Evidence (screenshots, logs, etc): http://pastebin.com/1KHirms4

How you would punish the accused: Bans.

[northcote4]

Responding on behalf of Commander Gaius Kreiger.
Byond Key: Northcote4
Time and Date as above.

Accusations...

Rule 1: Griefing - I deny. Wasn't exactly griefing.
Rule 3: Ban Evading? - I deny. At no point did I try to evade a ban (though you may have multilogged...)
Rule 3b: Incompetant Marines? - I deny.
Rule 9: Commander laws - I deny.

For a start: this only occurred over one round, as I was only commander for a single round.

The first 'round', you were an insubordinate marine, who was subsequently arrested for insubordination. You were turned into a Janitor, after which you continued to be insubordinate, were arrested once again, and proceeded to SSD. Your body was put into cryo.

The second 'round', you, with the same name (two accounts? I don't know) were a bridge officer who requested to be deployed to the ground (violation of Rule 9). I denied.
You claimed to be a journalist, not a bridge officer, so I approved your job change, but asked that you return your officer equipment.

You may have gone SSD at this point, for which I will apologise. However, I requested your officer equipment, to which you did not comply.
The officer requested your equipment, and that you don't move. To which you did not comply. He stunned you.

Some unimportant things happened. I saw you in the hallways later and requested your officer's equipment. You responded by shouting that I follow you to the hangar, which I did. I negotiated your equipment from you, some excessive force may have been used by the officer (which I was quite happy to overlook) and the officer equipment was retrieved.

You asked to be deployed via dropship, I denied (as you're a civilian, not a marine ) and you toolboxed me. Then, y'know. Arresting and amputations. And then you ghosted and here we are.

All in all, I'd say we were pretty lenient.

-1

'He does seem to be a bit of a brute commander. Perhaps you should organize a mutiny?'

[andre1999]

Responding on behalf of Commander Gaius Kreiger.
Byond Key: Northcote4
Time and Date as above.

Accusations...

Rule 1: Griefing - I deny. Wasn't exactly griefing.
Rule 3: Ban Evading? - I deny. At no point did I try to evade a ban (though you may have multilogged...)
Rule 3b: Incompetant Marines? - I deny.
Rule 9: Commander laws - I deny.

For a start: this only occurred over one round, as I was only commander for a single round.

The first 'round', you were an insubordinate marine, who was subsequently arrested for insubordination. You were turned into a Janitor, after which you continued to be insubordinate, were arrested once again, and proceeded to SSD. Your body was put into cryo.

The second 'round', you, with the same name (two accounts? I don't know) were a bridge officer who requested to be deployed to the ground (violation of Rule 9). I denied.
You claimed to be a journalist, not a bridge officer, so I approved your job change, but asked that you return your officer equipment.

You may have gone SSD at this point, for which I will apologise. However, I requested your officer equipment, to which you did not comply.
The officer requested your equipment, and that you don't move. To which you did not comply. He stunned you.

Some unimportant things happened. I saw you in the hallways later and requested your officer's equipment. You responded by shouting that I follow you to the hangar, which I did. I negotiated your equipment from you, some excessive force may have been used by the officer (which I was quite happy to overlook) and the officer equipment was retrieved.

You asked to be deployed via dropship, I denied (as you're a civilian, not a marine ) and you toolboxed me. Then, y'know. Arresting and amputations. And then you ghosted and here we are.

All in all, I'd say we were pretty lenient.

-1

'He does seem to be a bit of a brute commander. Perhaps you should organize a mutiny?'

How do you give a -1 against a report on yourself?

[northcote4]

How do you give a -1 against a report on yourself?

Simply putting emphasis on the fact that I don't agree with it, heh.

[Adjective]

I have some input to this: I was the Corporate Liaison this round, and a friend of mine was the Chief Medical Officer. Round was going normal until she called me over the telephone and told me that the commander was having her make "chloral implants" and wanted to know if it was against rules. I told her it "should be fine, he can't really use them anyway." Shortly after he calls me over the command chat and asks me if he can use my loyalty implanter. I find it to be meta for him to even know that the CL has a loyalty implanter, but digressing I told him a firm no, took it from the lockbox, and hid in the maintenance near my office. Not even a few moments later, the commander and an MP come through the maintenance and enter my back room through yet another meta method... my bookshelf. They were in search of either myself or the implanter. Avoiding my office, I do not know if they took the box, but I prevented them from stealing the implanter by going planet side to do my task.

I can see him choosing this role to possibly meta-grief multiple marines. I do not see him using "chloral implants" for anything important, but to disable a marine for further leg amputations as I overheard he favored and encouraged in MP comms that round.

[northcote4]

I have some input to this: I was the Corporate Liaison this round, and a friend of mine was the Chief Medical Officer. Round was going normal until she called me over the telephone and told me that the commander was having her make "chloral implants" and wanted to know if it was against rules. I told her it "should be fine, he can't really use them anyway." Shortly after he calls me over the command chat and asks me if he can use my loyalty implanter. I find it to be meta for him to even know that the CL has a loyalty implanter, but digressing I told him a firm no, took it from the lockbox, and hid in the maintenance near my office. Not even a few moments later, the commander and an MP come through the maintenance and enter my back room through yet another meta method... my bookshelf. They were in search of either myself or the implanter. Avoiding my office, I do not know if they took the box, but I prevented them from stealing the implanter by going planet side to do my task.

I can see him choosing this role to possibly meta-grief multiple marines. I do not see him using "chloral implants" for anything important, but to disable a marine for further leg amputations as I overheard he favored and encouraged in MP comms that round.

Ah, alrighty.

The purpose of the chloral implants was to disable troublesome individuals (specifically Myron Simonides). By giving the MPs the ability to remotely incapacitate them via the implants, it would've hopefully lead to quicker resolutions.

I'll fully admit to asking to use your implanter. I wasn't aware that that was considered meta-knowledge. So my bad on that.

However,

Not even a few moments later, the commander and an MP come through the maintenance and enter my back room through yet another meta method... my bookshelf.

This never happened. Perhaps it might've happened with someone else, but I personally never entered the CL's private office. I tried, of course, via the main door (and was disappointed to find my ID didn't work, but oh well), but I didn't use the bookshelf-entrance (and may have forgotten it existed until right now).

As for favouring the MPs? Again, freely admitting to that, considering the constant insubordination by marines that round. Gotta keep the law in check somehow.

Grief was not my intention, but rather keeping the marines (and crew) in line.

[Zloy]

I was playing as Javier.
Your accusations are funny

>I was constantly beaten by Javier
First you was beaten after gunfire in hangar, when I tried to arrest you peacefully (at this point you could sit 5 minutes at brig, and be released, but you prefered acting like da bastard). So CO ordered me to beat you, note, thats not against rules. And if you whining after single punches, naming em' "constantly beating", it's your problem, which appears from your barbarian behaviour.

>amputated my legs
One leg.

>Javier Bould comes and says "DROP OFFICER EQUIPMENT."
COs order.

>I move one tile when he, suddenly tries to remove my hat, and he stuns me over 10 times
1) I ordered you to "Stay so".
2) If you don't want remove hat - I will remove it, because I have order.
3) I was stunning you 4 times. Second lie in OP.

>cuffs me
Because of your insubordination, specifically, ignoring my order "Stay so".

>and suggests amputating my legs
Thats not my suggest, thats COs order about you, cause he had reasons to think thats you're uneducable.

>Later on, I'm at the Hangar
You forgot to write about what you did before hangar. I uncuffed you, to solve peacefully, but you just ran away. After that CO tolds me thats I must ask you to drop equipment and if you dismiss, to arrest you for insubordination.

>and Javier comes in again and tells me to "DROP OFFICER EQUIPMENT."
I had order.

>At this point I'm tired of these 2 fucks
No. At this point CO says something like "All crimes are forgotten, you're free to go". But you deciding one more time to act like da bastard, attacking him.

>I get shot, stunned, and I am taken to the Medbay to get amputated.
In wich light we saw you? Uneducable bastard, who all round only doing thats creates shit. So, I have a question, WHAT DID YOU EXPECT WHEN ACTED LIKE THAT? Thats we will give you candy or what?

LOGS:

I have no logs of gunfire in hangar and beating, I guess we have no need in them.

http://pastebin.com/MZ5ubUVD - one leg amputated.
http://pastebin.com/HFkDC3wA - COs order about equipment
http://pastebin.com/J4Vh0yQN - my order to "Stay so" , removing hat and 4 stuns
http://pastebin.com/5G3mkzGA - on top of paste you can see thats I cuffing em', but CO wants to solve this peacefully.
Uncuffing
http://pastebin.com/h9QKpz2e - in previous paste CO promised to our Simonides normal round if he returns officer equipment, but he just run away and...
http://pastebin.com/5dN36Sq0 - second order to return officer equipment from him, when he runs to hangar
http://pastebin.com/iNyBcVA7 - here is the old order about you.
http://pastebin.com/At9zzC5b - "Crimes are forgiven" and "He is free to go". No comment.
http://pastebin.com/1MYmXszv - after those words he attacks CO.

[HurttleTurtle]

1 thing. I was the CMO. I never once amputated someone's leg...

[Zloy]

1 thing. I was the CMO. I never once amputated someone's leg...

http://pastebin.com/jH6FWh27 - here

[HurttleTurtle]

Cept that wasn't me. Ahmed wasn't the CMO. Rebecca Lilith was. I was Rebecca. Always have been.

[Ordukai]

I was the only mod on during this issue, and was getting off (It was like 1:00 am?) just as mega ahelped me. I don't remember the specifics of what he said but it was something along the lines of "Help the commander and MP are idiots". I know the commander was trying to get in to the CL's office at one point, but I never saw him succeed, through the bookcase or otherwise (Again, I got off in the middle of this).
I can only confirm that the MP did say "DROP OFFICER EQUIPMENT" and suggested amputating Mega's legs. I know that the commander held the MP back, saying "Just give us the equipment and you can leave" (Or something like that). Mega then ran off (Perhaps forgetting to give the equipment) and so the MP was sent after him again, at which point I figured that since the whole thing seemed to be a basic IC issue anyways, I would just leave.

Side note Rebecca Lilith was the CMO, changed from being researcher, and Ahmad Aramis was simply a sulaco doctor.

I'm sorry I couldn't have stayed on to resolve the issue, but I was quite tired and it was getting early.

[Lucyz]

Before I look through the logs on this I have a few questions / concerns.

1. Why would you amputate a marines leg, Where in the marine law does it say you can do this?
2. Was there some form of Mutiny going on and did you meet the requirements to start a Mutiny (Read the rules)
3. If this was in one round, Why were you Multi-keying (Thread OP)
4. Did the CMO give approval of this amputation?

[HurttleTurtle]

I was the CMO changed from researcher. I had literally no knowledge of the amputation. I never once saw it in my coms. I was already irrate with Ahmad when he ignored my order to perform surgery on an infected Marine and warned him that I would fire him. Obviously he was ignoring his duties to listen to the CMO before then. The most I was told to do, was make Chemical Implants with lethal doses of Chlora Hydrate, so I made them and gave them to the CO. After that, I was forced to try and remove a Larva from an Marine without any prior knowledge of Surgery (Played CMO because I was the only one in the Medical Department) then Ahmad came on and I wanted him to do it, he ignored me and ran some place else. So I went in to try and remove it but was then forced to stop again because Ordukai was messaging me about how a Researcher can do surgery without body scanning or being a Doctor. At the time he didn't know we already scanned him prior to being almost bursting. At the time I knew that we knew nothing about them so I said it was probably just a virus and it'll get better with anti-biotics. Later he complained that something was inside him so I rushed him to Surgery, this is where Ahmad ran off and ignore my order to surgically remove whatever was inside him, so I pulled him to the Table and then Ordukai messaged me why I was doing I explained everything but while it was going on, the Marine bursted because I was distracted talking to Ordukai. I ended up mad at him but got over it fairly quickly since it was partly my fault because I kept responding because I didn't want to ignore a Mod. After this, it was like 10-20 minutes later I rp'd that I couldn't handle the burster bursting out infront of my face and went to the CO to ask if he could end my life. He told me and I quote. "Go to your Lab. Make some Anti-Depressants, and Being a fucking Man." so I went to my lab, made two pills that were 60 units each of Sulfuric Acid and swallowed them. Ended up failed like 3 times trying to kill myself because the new Doctor Mia kept following me around. (She knew what I was trying to do >.>) I then walked away and let her follow me but lost her with my skills. I then ran into the bottom Surgery Room, grabbed the Surgical Drill, ran into the room next to the Surgery room(Storage Room) and proceeded to Drill my face in. Even then, I wasn't completly able to suicide because they caught me right as I entered the White screen Stage... They tried to heal me but I told them in the LOOC chat that I was trying to kill myself and obviously didn't accidentally drill myself in the face over 10 times.

So basically, I did not give Ahmad Permission early on in the game. I do remember him being taken as a Prisoner and being made a Janitor Though. I don't know why, but I didn't really see a reason why they would do it. I will say though. Gaius and Javier werent really helping much at all. From what I could see, they were targetting Mega pretty hard. Before they caught him and made him Janitor. I don't know but when I saw him. It was pretty obvious they cuffed him, stripped him, and then put an Orange Uniform on him. So Gaius ignored the fact that CMO had no knowledge of the amuptie and did it on his own Authority. That is all I wanted to say.

[northcote4]

Before I look through the logs on this I have a few questions / concerns.

1. Why would you amputate a marines leg, Where in the marine law does it say you can do this?
2. Was there some form of Mutiny going on and did you meet the requirements to start a Mutiny (Read the rules)
3. If this was in one round, Why were you Multi-keying (Thread OP)
4. Did the CMO give approval of this amputation?

1. For what little it's worth, I believe it was the 'Journalist' who had their leg amputated, not the marine, but regardless.
As to why? To keep the trouble-maker handicapped (figuratively and literally) to promote obedience. I was under the impression that, as a Commander, one has more-or-less total authority on their ship, as long as it doesn't break marine law (which I didn't believe that did).
2. To my knowledge there was no active mutiny. Maybe one or two disgruntled players, including OP, but no widespread dissent.
4. As for the CMO, I am unsure, personally. I simply requested/ordered it, and to be honest I never even saw the end result in game.


OH, and as for the chloral implants... Hindsight is 20/20, but it didn't occur to me at the time that having them contain LETHAL doses is probably not the best idea, considering execution laws...So I may have screwed that part up (though fortunately they were never implanted, but still).

"Go to your Lab. Make some Anti-Depressants, and Being a fucking Man."

This happened, although I think it was either 'Man the fuck up' or 'Toughen the fuck up'.

And as for targetting Mega specifically? It was nothing against him as a player. It was his character, and I stand by my believe that the majority of the actions were warranted. A little excessive, perhaps, but I was rolling with the 'Hardass' kind of Commander, and personally I don't think I ever actually violated marine law (excepting what would've been with the chloral implants).

[Adjective]

Considering you asked specifically for lethal doses of chloral from the CMO, then asked me for my implanter. Giving the excuse it was to "disable troublesome individuals...remotely incapacitate". I feel you were caught in some type of mid-grief lie. Your story is changing very rapidly.

This is all that I have to contribute to this thread, I will unsubscribe to it so as to avoid further temptation to reply.

[Lucyz]

Lethal doses? How many units of CH are we talking, Also a Journalist would not be on this mission so whoever assigned that job title is in the wrong also.

[HurttleTurtle]

He asked for Lethal Doses of Chlora Hydrate. So I put in 30 Units Each in each Chemical Implant. he told that should suffice, but he might want more. (Something along the lines of that)

[Lucyz]

Above 10 units kills so yeah this isn't acceptable.

[HurttleTurtle]

Am I going to be in trouble for making them? :/

[northcote4]

Considering you asked specifically for lethal doses of chloral from the CMO, then asked me for my implanter. Giving the excuse it was to "disable troublesome individuals...remotely incapacitate". I feel you were caught in some type of mid-grief lie. Your story is changing very rapidly.

This is all that I have to contribute to this thread, I will unsubscribe to it so as to avoid further temptation to reply.

Fair enough, Vrai.

And that's just cause I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed, I reckon. The purpose WAS to incapacitate them... By killing them.

I admit I didn't wholly think that through.

Yes, I did ask for lethal doses.

As for making him a 'Journalist'? That was simply to appease him because I wasn't really in the mood for dealing with insubordinate bridge officers (especially ones that were the same player). I wasn't aware that this would be against the rules (if a bit immershun-breaky), especially considering I never ACTUALLY planned to let him on LV-624.

I'm prepared to take full blame for the chloral implants. Hurtle only did it under my orders as CO, and I don't think he can defy a direct order unless the CMO intervenes.

I still maintain, though, that I didn't intend to grief anyone. I was just dealing with the situation the way I felt would best suit the character I was rolling at the time: a disagreeable asshole, but one who (tries to) gets results.

[Lucyz]

Alright there seems to be quite a few mistakes on everybody's part so I am just going to list who and why you were in the wrong and then let's hope you all learn from your mistakes.

northcote4 - Let's just say you are VERY lucky I didn't hand out a ban on top of a job ban from Commander, Yes you read correctly you are getting a temporary job ban from Commander. Ordering medical to brew up 30 units of Chloral Hydrate for implants is UNNACEPTABLE, You shouldn't know ANYTHING about advanced chemistry and also above 10 units will kill anyone. Amputating a marine "To keep the trouble-maker handicapped" as you said is obviously not allowed, Why do you think we have MP's, Stun guns, Stun Batons, Handcuffs, Jail cells, Flashbangs, Flash, Amputating someone to stop them from being a trouble maker is probably the worst reason I've seen yet. Lastly making someone a Journalist on board a military vessel isn't allowed, the closest thing we have to a non-military personnel is the Liason but they are sent from WY and have a pretty important role if played correctly.

HurttleTurtle - Seeing as you were the CMO you had a right to deny the CO's request of lethal doses of Chloral Hydrate, You are part of command therefore you should know the marine law so simply ask him WHY he wants deadly doses of a chemical and if you find it a good enough reason then sure go ahead but in this case it wasn't the right decision.

Megalopeos - You were breaking marine law but as I stated above to northcote amputating someone is unacceptable but you are not a saint either. If you get arrested you should at least do your time instead of going SSD.

Zloy - Even though you were following orders if something doesn't seem right you can disregard the CO's order and follow marine law the correct way. Therefore your mistake was agreeing to amputate someone because they were a troublemaker.

I don't want to see ANY metagrudging after this has been resolved, If anyone is caught metagrudging you will be banned.

[northcote4]

Fair enough, that's fine by me. I may disagree a little, but I don't have logs or anything to back myself up, so I'll settle.

A question, though. What are we to do in the event that a prisoner repeatedly breaks out of prison, but aren't enough of an issue to warrant a full execution?

[Lucyz]

Fair enough, that's fine by me. I may disagree a little, but I don't have logs or anything to back myself up, so I'll settle.

A question, though. What are we to do in the event that a prisoner repeatedly breaks out of prison, but aren't enough of an issue to warrant a full execution?

You just full strip them and throw them in a cell, MP's should be taking all gear off of them and leave only a jumpsuit & headset, if the prisoner then uses either of the items to try and break the glass then just full strip and buckle cuff, reset the timer each time they attempt to break out.

[northcote4]

Fair enough!

Makes me wonder how people ever escape from their cells. But I suppose things happen. People get good at hiding objects and the like.

Cheers, Lucyz.