Hycinth - Emitters and Ladders

[forwardslashN]

Your Byond Key | Character Name: Noize/Dominic Russo

Their Byond key: Hycinth

Approximate time and date of the incident (Central Us Time for best results): today, 5pmish

Which Admin Protocols (viewtopic.php?f=57&t=5647) were broken: 1 and 2.

Description of the incident: I was playing an MT, and when the aliens came I had to abandon the lower deck. I was able to gather up the emitters, and one of the squad engineers was helping met set up ladder defenses. I left to secure the main ladders by egrilling them while he stayed behind securing cargo. While I was securing the emitters after setting up the grilles, the emitters were deleted. I saw three emitters deleted personally, and I think the fourth one was deleted from cargo. When I adminhelped and asked why the emitters were deleted, I was told that it's standard practice and is part of the unwritten rules, and any xenos killed by the emitters would get revived anyway. At this point, no xenos were harmed by the emitters to my knowledge. My only real concern is that Hycinth deleted all of the emitters without saying anything either to me as I was dragging them all over the Sulaco nor in OOC. The announcement about the emitters came 20ish minutes after they were deleted and after my adminhelp about the situation. The SM was also unstable and was later ejected, and I was without emitters to start up another one. It didn't matter in the end, since the round ended, but still.

I've seen emitters used in all sorts of defenses before, including the hanger and ladders, without being deleted. Unless it is an actual game rule, like hugger stacking or building hanger defenses before the aliens use the computer, I feel this situation was handled inappropriately. Had I known the emitters would be deleted, I would not have spent time dragging them around, and I was the only active MT on the Sulaco to the best of my knowledge. Deleting all four emitters without a word of warning because of unwritten rules does not sit well with me.

Evidence (screenshots, logs, etc): I don't have it, but there's really nothing to present outside of what happened.

How you would punish the accused: I wouldn't. Clarify admin procedure or add emitters to the official game rules.

[Hycinth]

Apologies for not mentioning something in looc/ooc/etc sooner.

I fully admit that I should have said something there, but I was dealing with several situations at the time. I'll do my best to communicate more effectively in the future.

As for the

My only real concern is that Hycinth deleted all of the emitters without saying anything either to me as I was dragging them all over the Sulaco nor in OOC.

I was unaware of the emitters being there in the first place due to the fact that I was watching other areas; The first I heard of the emitters was an ahelp from a praetorian telling me about the one in cargo.

As far as the rules regarding emitters, to the best of my knowledge: They may be placed NEAR ladders (a tile off, preventing movement from the ladder tile) but not directly over them. Multiple times in the past, emitters over ladders have been wordlessly deleted and aliens affected by them revived, including actions by SAS and other admins. I spoke with Coroneljones about the situation over Skype, and he confirmed that that was the standard procedure for dealing with the emitters over ladders.

I apologize once again for not saying something sooner; Unfortunately, I'm not omnipotent nor omnipresent. I didn't see you dragging them along prior to them being placed.



Regarding the "Protocols broken" section: No punishment was intended beyond the deletion of the emitters: therefore a personal PM didn't seem particularly necessary, as no-one was receiving punishment for the actions (beyond the deletion of the emitters). As far as "Investigate the situation", I saw emitters over ladders, I deleted them, per the precedent set by other staff members.


THAT SAID:

I would like to have the Emitter rules clarified within the ACTUAL rules.

[apophis775]

This is not an "unwritten" rule, nor do we have "unwritten rules".

This isn't even in the thread in the admin area where some of the "questionable" things are ever listed.

I will investigate how this came about, because I'm pretty sure several months back, we fixed this issue (There are not enough emitters to cover all the paths up, emitters only shoot so many spaces).

There are no "unwritten rules" and this isn't even listed in the thread where staff have asked about some questionable things (such as, pulling the backpacks).


As far as an OFFICIAL 100% RULING ON EMITTERS:

You are Legit to put them pretty much ANYWHERE you want, with a few exceptions, mostly ON the shuttle, because fuck if I have any idea what THAT would even do.

If you wanna bring emitters down to the planet, go-for-it. They shoot like 5 tiles and consume silly amounts of power.


Again, I will look into this personally and determine the actions that caused this, because NO-ONE should be deleting emitters unless they are an admin or above and have a SUPER-LEGIT reason. If an admin isn't present, they should be trying to contact a head/admin before they take action.

[coroneljones]

Insert my part here

I was informed of the ladder blocking via the emitters,now in my history i have seen marines completely block off the ladders with emitters,girders,egrilles,force shields,sentries and themselves.

When i was informed i assumed the marines were holding the upper deck for a while,I was even informed that the marines had placed egrilles on the ladders.
The xenos were later downed to two,on the planet it also seem

I was asked if deleting emitters on ladders was the standard procedure,i replied with a I belive so,as i have seen others do so in the past.

The xenos would have likely stayed in the lower deck,since they couldnt move up,and the marines in the upper,where they had power,weaoons,fortifications and a secure location,stagnating the round if neither budged to fight the other side.

So thats my reasoning on the answer,regarding the emitter blockage

[Derpislav]

Emitters were frequently removed in the past. I have removed them in the past. If not Apop's word not to, I would continue to do this, because it's only effective thanks to the ladder mechanics, hence qualifies under powergaming in my book.

[Feweh]

I would of also removed them, to preserve the "fun" and fairness of the round.

Hycinth did it with no ill intentions at all.

[apophis775]

Your primary focus as mods, is enforcing the rules and preserving the round. That does not include, deleting key pieces of equipment. Admins, have exception to do that. I will talk with Lost/SAS about making that clearer in the admin procedures document.

But the key issue here, is that "Unwritten rules" were used as a reason, which is completely not the case as there is no such thing as "unwritten rules". The closest thing to that we have, is the Admin Rule 0, allowing them to make specific rulings to adjust the flow of a round and preserve the round integrity and fun.

The PROPER action here, would have been to "possibly" alert the marines doing it, that it was meta or powergaming to have ALL the possible paths blocked up with emitters and things over the ladders and then had the MARINES take action to adjust it, or, have an admin come on to utilize rule 0. Not to just warninglessly delete the emitters.

[forwardslashN]

Hycinth did it with no ill intentions at all.

I agree. Since apop clarified the situation, I don't have anything else to add. My complaint is resolved.

[hellion2]

But the key issue here, is that "Unwritten rules" were used as a reason, which is completely not the case as there is no such thing as "unwritten rules". The closest thing to that we have, is the Admin Rule 0, allowing them to make specific rulings to adjust the flow of a round and preserve the round integrity and fun.

If an Admin makes a ruling using Rule 0. in a follow up round, can a less senior person make the same decision to preserve round integrity?

[outordinary]

But the key issue here, is that "Unwritten rules" were used as a reason, which is completely not the case as there is no such thing as "unwritten rules". The closest thing to that we have, is the Admin Rule 0, allowing them to make specific rulings to adjust the flow of a round and preserve the round integrity and fun.

Is it safe to assume in a similar situation outlined in the first post, that rule 0 can be pulled for emitters being directly on ladders?

[Hycinth]

Is it safe to assume in a similar situation outlined in the first post, that rule 0 can be pulled for emitters being directly on ladders?

Admins are allowed to use Rule 0 to modify the round to their discretion when they feel it's in the best interest of the current round/server/playerbase at large.

So yes, emitters could be deleted in the future by an admin so as to advance the round if they're causing a full stalemate on the Sulaco (marines can't go down, Xenos can't go up).

[apophis775]

No. Rule 0 affects ONLY that round, and can only be used by admins.

[hellion2]

What happens if an identical situations happens a few rounds later when the admins are gone? Mods job is to sit around with their thumb up their butt? Purposefully watching the round turn to shit?

[apophis775]

Action should not be necessary. There are only 2 emitters.

[hellion2]

I was more referring to all issues, whenever an admin invokes rule 0. Not specifically this emitter issue.

[SASoperative]

Has this been resolved..?

[SASoperative]

I am assuming this has been resolved by now.... Locked for now.