Allan1234

[spheretech]

Your Byond Key: Spheretech

Your Character Name: I was an alien, don't know which

Their Byond key: Allan1234

Approximate time and date of the incident (Central Us Time for best results): 3/29/2016 ~15:00

Which Admin Protocols (viewtopic.php?f=57&t=5647) were broken:
1. Send a personal message (PM) to the violator asking them to explain their actions

Description of the incident:
I don't remember how it started but I probably looked rude from others perspectives, I am quite stubborn when someone doesn't understand my point. I got muted by Allan which I don't blame him for BUT, I have a big issue with how he did it. Infront of everyone, without talking to me about it privately prior to the mute, he wanted to have the last word and made a long sentance saying that I will be muted for whatever reason (Don't remember the whole thing). As I was muted, he proceeded to call me out while I couldn't defend myself in dsay, infront of everyone. Apparently I was salty about the predator thing, which was quite a while ago and I honestly don't even care about. It was just wrong to jump to a conclusion to unjustify why I was "salty" . But I could not say anything, obviously, I was muted. I think this was over the line. It only feels like he was biased against me and after disagreeing, wanted to have the last word and shamed be. He should have talked to me first, even just telling me to stop would've suficed. I could've continued and confronted him about it further in ahelp, but here I am, the proper way.

And as you may know I tend to freely say what's on my mind about anything I have against anyone, not exclusively against admins. So don't hold a grudge for it, please.

Evidence (screenshots, logs, etc):

How you would punish the accused: I just want this to not happen again to me or anyone else. I don't want to be muted while an admin says "hes just salty about -[thing that happened ages ago that could be an excuse but I have no proof it is but hwatever]".

[Feweh]

Going to have to back Allan on this one.

Seems more like a bruised ego here than a actual serious issue. Almost like you're upset for not being able to get the last word in... and really if you weren't muted you're basically just saying you'd carry on arguing. People get muted all the time in chat for complaining a lot or causing issues and you even said you understand why you were muted no?
Over-time you've become to be known as a complainer and it doesn't shock me that something like this is a issue for you. Unless there's more to this report or he said something seriously offensive then this admin report is extremely petty.

[spheretech]

Going to have to back Allan on this one.

Seems more like a bruised ego here than a actual serious issue. Almost like you're upset for not being able to get the last word in... and really if you weren't muted you're basically just saying you'd carry on arguing. People get muted all the time in chat for complaining a lot or causing issues and you even said you understand why you were muted no?
Over-time you've become to be known as a complainer and it doesn't shock me that something like this is a issue for you. Unless there's more to this report or he said something seriously offensive then this admin report is extremely petty.

Well if you could read the protocols broken part, a protocol WAS actually broken. If I didn't ahelp it afterwards I wouldn't have had an explanation. I don't think you understand how terrible it feels when you are muted and called out by an admin only because he feels safe from retaliation, since you literally cannot say a thing back. Called out WRONGLY without basis.

Either way, this will most likely lead nowhere and I was going to delete the post but you replied by then, so we can go at it. I completely stand behind what I think he did wrong, and he did.

[Allan1234]

I did not call you out as I did not state your C-key. The entire time you where hiden behind your crusher ident which no one, except a staff member, can get your ckey from. While someone did say your name it was not me or another member of staff and no one had confirmed it was you moreover due to the context of the sitauation I was not required to PM you the reasoning for the mute and alerting everyone in dsay about the mute and the reason for it has never been against the protocols or a requirement. By openly attempting to dish the server and our staff by telling me that we don't work hard on it and promise stuff that never comes (refernced by your issue with the pred upate and comment against abbys weapon overhaul) in the middle of dsay you lost the right to privacy for the mute reason but again I never stated your ckey and no one would have known who you where if you did not post here.

You are being salty as hell over something or another and you have been taking it out in dsay which is not acceptable. We have form sections for a reason and if you have a development issue with the server you are more then free to voice it on the forums rather then inject toxic arguments and half-hearted insults against the staff team and our server in dsay.

I broke no protocol as you had violated no rule and as an admin I was utilizeing rule 0 becuase I saw you as a toxic assest to the current population of dsay and muted you accordingly. I was not doing it as a "Shield" as you stated in the ahelp after nor was I doing it to "get the last word in" as you stated in this report. I was doing it becuase as an admin it is my job to keep the server population free of toxic arguments that involve insults against the server in general. Sure I'm going to admit I may have had a personal issue with it as well due to the fact that you where showing absolutly no care against anything that we as staff have done or the work we put into the server and you just ignored it all for your own egolistical bullshit.

[spheretech]

I did not call you out as I did not state your C-key. The entire time you where hiden behind your crusher ident which no one, except a staff member, can get your ckey from. While someone did say your name it was not me or another member of staff and no one had confirmed it was you moreover due to the context of the sitauation I was not required to PM you the reasoning for the mute and alerting everyone in dsay about the mute and the reason for it has never been against the protocols or a requirement. By openly attempting to dish the server and our staff by telling me that we don't work hard on it and promise stuff that never comes (refernced by your issue with the pred upate and comment against abbys weapon overhaul) in the middle of dsay you lost the right to privacy for the mute reason but again I never stated your ckey and no one would have known who you where if you did not post here.

You are being salty as hell over something or another and you have been taking it out in dsay which is not acceptable. We have form sections for a reason and if you have a development issue with the server you are more then free to voice it on the forums rather then inject toxic arguments and half-hearted insults against the staff team and our server in dsay.

I broke no protocol as you had violated no rule and as an admin I was utilizeing rule 0 becuase I saw you as a toxic assest to the current population of dsay and muted you accordingly. I was not doing it as a "Shield" as you stated in the ahelp after nor was I doing it to "get the last word in" as you stated in this report. I was doing it becuase as an admin it is my job to keep the server population free of toxic arguments that involve insults against the server in general. Sure I'm going to admit I may have had a personal issue with it as well due to the fact that you where showing absolutly no care against anything that we as staff have done or the work we put into the server and you just ignored it all for your own egolistical bullshit.

I am pretty sure theres been only one person that had predator issues recently, and that's me. Everybody knows it, so what you did basically said who I was for everyone to continue throwing counter arguments while I couldn't defend my point. From what it looks to me the only reason I violated rule 0 is because you disagreed with me, and saw it that way. What I saw was staff talking to me in dsay, atleast one in marine name form, trying to shut down what I had to say, and when you decided you couldn't talk any longer you simply went for the escalation and shut me down manually via mute. It looked very personal to me. And instead of maybe actually telling me what you said now (talk about this at the forums, this is not the right place kind of thing) you just muted me and didn't respond until I specifically directed a question at you through ahelp. Or were you too busy shittalking against me in dsay? I don't know.

[Allan1234]

refernces for the "shit talking" I did

Code: Select all

[15:09:21]ADMIN: Allan1234/(Hemrick Welfried) : ok well I am pretty tired of haveing to watch you try to down the server but regardless enjoy a Dsay mute for the rest of the round, when you host your own server and design everything yourself then you can come back and complain
[15:09:46]ADMIN: Allan1234/(Hemrick Welfried) has muted Spheretech/(Crusher (340)) from deadchat and DSAY
[15:09:58]ADMIN: Allan1234/(Hemrick Welfried) : annnd muted
[15:10:27]ADMIN: Allan1234/(Hemrick Welfried) : don't sorry
[15:10:32]ADMIN: Allan1234/(Hemrick Welfried) : er worry
[15:10:46]ADMIN: Allan1234/(Hemrick Welfried) : he's just mad because he got removed from pred I think
[15:10:57]ADMIN: Allan1234/(Hemrick Welfried) : 99.9% sure yeah

So no, I was not too busy "shit talking" you actually it was quite the opposite becuase after I stated the reason for the mute in dsay, since ya'know no one wanted to hear your salty shit, you made an ahelp to me which I responded too and at which point I did tell you about the form section and I did tell you the reason for the mute.

Code: Select all

[15:13:55]ADMIN: PM: Allan1234/(Hemrick Welfried)->Spheretech/(Crusher (340)): Becuase Im tired of watching your salty shit in dsay about the server that we put work and effort into. If you have an issue we have forum sections for that but don't come into our server and  start downing stuff and expect action not to be taken.

and, afterwords, I did unmute you when the round was ending meaning you where muted for a hole five minautes, less most likely. So as feweh said, This entire thing is just you not haveing the last word and getting salty becuase I wouldn't let you contiune to be toxic against the server.

Code: Select all

[15:15:48]ADMIN: Allan1234/(Hemrick Welfried) has unmuted Spheretech/(Crusher (340)) from deadchat and DSAY

[spheretech]

Toxic against the server, or toxic against you? You unmuting me at round end to justify it is not a very good excuse. The damage was done by then and we could talk in OOC either way. I don't care that you muted me. But saying that I'm "just mad because I got removed from pred" is uncalled for. It's clearly passive aggressive, you could've even been breaking the 0 rule yourself.

[Feweh]

Toxic against the server, or toxic against you? You unmuting me at round end to justify it is not a very good excuse. The damage was done by then and we could talk in OOC either way. I don't care that you muted me. But saying that I'm "just mad because I got removed from pred" is uncalled for. It's clearly passive aggressive, you could've even been breaking the 0 rule yourself.

"I know I was being a shit and shitting all over the server staff who work on the server, but I think it's really unfair that one of those people took a shit on me after and I couldn't defend myself or continue shitting on him back. So now I've come to the forums in a attempt to get vengeance on this person all while admitting I did deserve the mute, but fuck him for being passive-aggressive towards me while I was being OPENLY aggressive."

You're technically right that he didn't need to do that, but you're just being a shitty person by trying to grab him on a minor protocol because you're salty.
I'd actually push for you being banned, because behavior like this is extremely toxic and selfish and we all hate players like this. You used to be a pretty chill guy, but Allan has a valid point and you should really look into the truth of it. Ever since your removal from Predator you've been bitter and a constantly source of issues and complaints.

[SecretStamos (Joshuu)]

I really don't think you have much of a case here to be entirely honest Spheretech. The mute looks pretty justified to me, and it seems like you're reporting him to try and get the last word in.

[spheretech]

I was always like this. I was never a "chill" guy, in terms of what you think I am. I don't care about predators, it's a horrible event role that nobody should be trusted with in the first place, it's too powerful. To avoid a long story, after the whole predator thing being removed from me for pretty bullshit reasons considering people have done horribly worse, I decided to only speak the truth, however harsh it is, and without caring if you like it or not. What else can I do? Why do you mute me from dsay, then I am expected to go to forums where ofcourse I am immediately teamed on my none other than the group I am complaining against? Because theres nothing that I can do besides just words. Because unless you delete all the fucking walls on the server you will not be punished, because the other admins are your friends and they will stand up for you, whatever you do. I don't care that nothing will come of this, atleast it'll be out there. If theres one thing I hate it's admins abusing their power for personal issues, and I will NOT let anyone get away with it without others hearing about it.

And in reply to what stamos said, I don't really understand how I am getting the last word in considering this is supposed to be a discussion, this is where we START, not finish. Not yet.

I need to go, but hopefully others see this and make their own judgement. After all, I am obviously mad about the predator deal, according to Allan.

[Artouris]

I will post the log of the whole conversation when I get home(in class right now sorry). But you where indeed not only angry about predator things. You where also dissing apop and the server in general. To be honest and we did tell you this that you ended up acting overtly childish in deadchat regarding your anger.

[LordeKilly]

I'd like to add that Allan has been a long time staff member, and I haven't seen him purposely call someone out unless they were either being toxic, or doing something that they deserved it. That said, this situation seems fair, from what I saw in the logs and to how Allen responded. If you honestly think predators should be nerfed or removed, complain about it here. Don't call out the server that we all play on and insult the people who actually put time into it.

[Artouris]

As I promised earlier. At the request of the admins if they don't want this to be as public they can remove the links or ask me to take the links out of the post. However here they are. Spheretech is Crusher(340) in the logs. They do show how he goes and disses Apop, the server (in a comment), predators, and hard work put in by the staff.

First link here is only deadchat.
http://pastebin.com/MPcUMSAV

Second Link is for evidence that i did not specifically remove anything from the logs with the intentions of altering or falsifying anything. (and thus its with actions/peopletalking)
http://pastebin.com/1RYqx2xV

Although the one thing I would disagree with was Allan saying that Crusher(340) (Spheretech) was removed from predator. But that a bit more nit picky than honestly even i care about.

[SecretStamos (Joshuu)]

Spheretech was removed from Predator for very valid reasons. He mortally wounded a marine, snuck onto the Sulaco, singled out a doctor (and somehow knew the purpose of the doctor), and asked said doctor to perform shrapnel removal surgery. After surgery, he then killed the marine. Coupled with his previous incidents, the heads of staff convened and ruled in favor of removing him from the whitelist.

As for donations, they take a long time. And donations are exactly what they sound like- voluntary donations. Apop and I are they only ones who process them, and it can be a very stressful and overwhelming process. Truthfully, I've almost resigned twice due to donation induced pressure. Apop and I are both going through difficult times in our lives, and unfortunately it slows things down quite a bit.

[spheretech]

Spheretech was removed from Predator for very valid reasons. He mortally wounded a marine, snuck onto the Sulaco, singled out a doctor (and somehow knew the purpose of the doctor), and asked said doctor to perform shrapnel removal surgery. After surgery, he then killed the marine. Coupled with his previous incidents, the heads of staff convened and ruled in favor of removing him from the whitelist.

As for donations, they take a long time. And donations are exactly what they sound like- voluntary donations. Apop and I are they only ones who process them, and it can be a very stressful and overwhelming process. Truthfully, I've almost resigned twice due to donation induced pressure. Apop and I are both going through difficult times in our lives, and unfortunately it slows things down quite a bit.

See, this is why I had that discussion in deadchat in the first place. Because not even you can remember or not lie about what actually happened. No surgery actually happened, and I don't remember wounding any marine, atleast that's not what you said the problem was. Now you mention that I wasn't supposed to know what a doctor was, which you also never mentioned was an actual problem back then. Countless predators have gone up to sulaco and even had surgery, I've seen it myself on many occassions. Yet I was the only one to get punished for doing it.

And for the donations part, if your lives are so difficult and you have so little time, have you considered not taking one of the most important roles in the development of a server? Why should everyone else wait for you to sort out your problems when theres countless others who could help and be just as good as you? I've even offered my help. And even after apparently hiring spriters and coders the same excuses are put out for anything. Is it because the upper staff simply doesn't trust anyone that's not in the circle of friends that is staff? From the perspective of someone who lives in an underdeveloped country, what I see is what could be just privileged westerners taking everything for granted, caring only for themselves in their little server playground, not keeping anyone in the loop besides themselves. I hope you prove me wrong. And it really is true that players pretty much have no impact on whats going to be in the game, considering even approved suggestions are never added, no matter how easy it is to add them. When I asked why I got the same excuse "we have lives" even though most of the approved suggestions happened LAST SUMMER. Now do you see what I was arguging about? I am not just making things up.

I said what I wanted to say, feel free to close this, I don't wanna wait for apophis and staff to get back from the supposed field trip.

[Minijar]

See, this is why I had that discussion in deadchat in the first place. Because not even you can remember or not lie about what actually happened. No surgery actually happened, and I don't remember wounding any marine, atleast that's not what you said the problem was. Now you mention that I wasn't supposed to know what a doctor was, which you also never mentioned was an actual problem back then. Countless predators have gone up to sulaco and even had surgery, I've seen it myself on many occassions. Yet I was the only one to get punished for doing it.

And for the donations part, if your lives are so difficult and you have so little time, have you considered not taking one of the most important roles in the development of a server? Why should everyone else wait for you to sort out your problems when theres countless others who could help and be just as good as you? I've even offered my help. And even after apparently hiring spriters and coders the same excuses are put out for anything. Is it because the upper staff simply doesn't trust anyone that's not in the circle of friends that is staff? From the perspective of someone who lives in an underdeveloped country, what I see is what could be just privileged westerners taking everything for granted, caring only for themselves in their little server playground, not keeping anyone in the loop besides themselves. I hope you prove me wrong. And it really is true that players pretty much have no impact on whats going to be in the game, considering even approved suggestions are never added, no matter how easy it is to add them. When I asked why I got the same excuse "we have lives" even though most of the approved suggestions happened LAST SUMMER. Now do you see what I was arguging about? I am not just making things up.

I said what I wanted to say, feel free to close this, I don't wanna wait for apophis and staff to get back from the supposed field trip.

You really don't understand how the process of development works do you. We only have a single coder at the moment hence why things do admittedly take a while to get done. By all means feel free to become one and contribute but until you know how hard Abby works constantly for this server, please don't criticise her for being slow. As much as you'd like to have her chained up in the basement as a coding slave we can't legally do that.

[spheretech]

Thats why I suggested you get more coders/spriters? If the strain is too much for one person why not just get people to help? I see coder and spriter apps open sometimes yet apparently theres always only one person working on anything. And I did want to contribute, gladly, but they did not want my help.

[Grypho]

I think they are slow on accepting the coder applications because the coders will need to be very trusted people. If you get access to CM´s closed codebase, you are able to do more damage by leaking the codebase (just like what happened to goon) than any admin / head admin would be able to do. So in my opinion it is the most trusted position you can get.

As a former server host on Gmod, I did hesitate too a lot about hiring a coder and had my very trusted friend do the coding.

[spheretech]

Well there is a risk hiring staff ofcourse BUT even if the code did leak it's not like there would be a great amount of damage done. I don't see any harm in being open source in the first place (if anything, I think goons private code for years was selfish but we actually do the same). The benefit of having additional coders will come with a risk of leaking maybe, but the benefits outwiegh the potential damage.

[Jack McIntyre]

There would be a lot of damage done and I am going to say I am in support of Allan on this one, in all my time on staff I think we only butted heads once and it was something minor sure we argued you a bit and then we moved on and none of us held it against them. So I can honestly say that Allan did alright here in my book, personally I haven't dealt with ya as much sphere so I am not going to pretend that I do know you or your shenanigans, but I can honestly admit that if what the other staff said is true on you going up to get surgery, it sort of leaves you to be removed. Most preds will make a deal with the marines to get fixed up since they wouldn't know what a doctor is or how they would look or etc. on a marine ship. For example I was hunting with a another pred when they were ambushed by a xeno, the predator roleplayed having a hard time seeing under their mask, and we happened upon some marines who offered to help my hunting partner, in return since they were almost pushed back to the lz anyway, I offered to help hold the xenos back until my partner returned. Deal was made, they brought them up, got them treated and then they came back down and we left the marines in peace since the xenos had been held back and pushed back to the outside of the nexus. So if you have something like that it is more plausible.

Now as for the mute thing, I think it is justifiable looking at the evidence, simply put, if you don't like the way things are run, you can do two things. Either suck it up and just work on a way to maybe fix things without making yourself a annoyance to the community (most people won't listen to the crazy guy sorry to say) or two, leave the server and/or make your own. I play on other servers and some I get annoyed with, but the thing is I keep going back to them and I understand that. I also understand that they run that server with their own money, it's like a place of business you can holler and complain about how they do business, but maybe it is working for them and they are getting the crowds they want. Then you have no right to complain because they have invested more into it.

[Lostmixup]

This will be resolved, I'm locking this due to the discussion being way out of hand.