Jackserious Staff Complaint

[Mitchs98]

Your Byond Key: Mitchs98

Your Character Name: Anya Allen

Their Byond key: Jackserious

Approximate time and date of the incident (Central Us Time for best results): 4/10/2016 1 PM-ish CST- 1:30 PM-ish CST

Which Admin Protocols (viewtopic.php?f=57&t=5647) were broken:

Conduct: Remain Professional, Preserve the RP and Enjoyment of the Server.

Description of the incident: Right, so. Second round in a row this happened to me. Got killed outside of the hive(far outside) and left alone. Eventually a lone runner found my corpse and drug it deep into the hive. I of course reported it, Jack apparently 'handled' it yet nothing was one other than 'it being handled'. My corpse was left in the hive to eventually be devoured. I had to literally argue in deadchat until Jack did something about it, which consisted of my corpse being spat out in the middle of an assault and left there. To top it all off he decided a smartass remark was necessary once it was done. His reasoning was it was counter-intuitive for an alien to move the corpse back and thus right their wrong, which makes no sense.

I won't deny I lost my cool from this, but only due to the fact it was the SECOND round in a row I played that it happened and nothing was done to make them place my corpse back or otherwise other than a 'handled it'. In my honest opinion aliens should be made to put the corpses back, otherwise it just defeats the purpose of rule enforcement.

Evidence (screenshots, logs, etc):

Said smartass remark: https://gyazo.com/157edf46a44de45443aca9ae13764899

Said 'counterintuitiveness': https://gyazo.com/836bb57cdea19a8144ad62fae57e78f5

How you would punish the accused: Warning, something, anything really.

[Seehund]

From my point of view, said alien broke a rule by moving your body - a very badly worded rule, let's be honest here, but a rule regardless.
So, the next thing I was supposed to do was tell the same alien to break the same rule again, albeit purposefully, in order for your body to be returned where it was?

Obviously I haven't handled it as well as I could have, though your... disposition didn't help, really. Throughout the whole ordeal, you were less than pleasant to deal with, especially on top of everything else going on beyond your perception.
The way I saw it, it seemed you cared more about your body being put somewhere where it could be readily found and retrieved in order to return to the game, than anything.

The player was indeed dealt with, as a side note.

[Mitchs98]

No, I cared about it being put back where it should be because it shouldn't of been moved in the first place. My 'disposition' was as such due to the fact it being 'handled' did absolutely nothing other than give the player a warning and me a 'dealt with', leaving me in the hive and otherwise doing nothing to fix an issue whatsoever. It wouldn't be breaking the rule to return the body where it should of initially been, it would be forcing a player to right their wrong beyond giving them a warning. Warning a player and still leaving the corpse where it shouldn't be for aliens to devour it and go 'lol it was in the hive now!' isn't really helping anything, at all, whatsoever.

Now I admit I could of been more calm, but it's the fact it happened literally twice within a two round span of me playing kind of tipped me over the edge. Players should have to right the wrong they did in some form or another if possible when this happens, not just 'Oh it was dealt with' and have an alien devour the host 5 seconds later because they were now in valid areas.

Despite everything it didn't call for you being unprofessional towards me after you only did something to resolve it after myself and Aeleto complained about it in deadchat. It's not counter-intuitive to get someone to right what they did. You might as well not do anything to them at that point, let alone enforce a rule, if nothing is going to be done beyond slapping a warning note on them and calling it kosher.

[Westhybrid]

No, I cared about it being put back where it should be because it shouldn't of been moved in the first place. My 'disposition' was as such due to the fact it being 'handled' did absolutely nothing other than give the player a warning and me a 'dealt with', leaving me in the hive and otherwise doing nothing to fix an issue whatsoever. It wouldn't be breaking the rule to return the body where it should of initially been, it would be forcing a player to right their wrong beyond giving them a warning. Warning a player and still leaving the corpse where it shouldn't be for aliens to devour it and go 'lol it was in the hive now!' isn't really helping anything, at all, whatsoever.

Now I admit I could of been more calm, but it's the fact it happened literally twice within a two round span of me playing kind of tipped me over the edge. Players should have to right the wrong they did in some form or another if possible when this happens, not just 'Oh it was dealt with' and have an alien devour the host 5 seconds later because they were now in valid areas.

Despite everything it didn't call for you being unprofessional towards me after you only did something to resolve it after myself and Aeleto complained about it in deadchat. It's not counter-intuitive to get someone to right what they did. You might as well not do anything to them at that point, let alone enforce a rule, if nothing is going to be done beyond slapping a warning note on them and calling it kosher.

Look.

I hate to argue with you considering it's unfortunate you were wronged in back-to-back rounds, but taking out your frustration on Jack isn't doing you any favors. Jack did the extent of what his job requires, which was reprimanding the offender. He is not required to go through the trouble of getting said offender to drag your body back. That's not a job requirement, it's a convenience for you.

Would it have been nice if he told the runner to drag your body back out of the caves? Sure. Was Jack's remarks to you sarcastic? Up to interpretation, in which case, he could've remained mildly more professional.

But Mitch, mind you, this is a volunteer gig that all of us on the staff commit to. We're not getting paid. We're all just people. And if you don't like the attitude of our staff, who again, are just people, we're not obligated to change. Jack didn't curse you out or act hostile, which would be the fullest violation of acting unprofessional, and would actually warrant a punishment. He dealt with your anger at a reasonable pace.

As for your accusation of Jack not upholding the RP and Enjoyment of the server, you're in the wrong. The server, means the server at large, as in the entirety. Not the specific demand of one player who unfortunately lost their corpse to a rule-breaker. You have zero idea how many fires our Mods and Admins are putting out at a given time. We're typically busy dealing with a number of things at once. Bigger things typically then a lost corpse, especially after Jack already reprimanded the offender. As I said before, you getting your corpse out of the cave is a convenience, not an obligation of our staff team that has bigger fish to fry.

[Rahlzel]

I'm not convinced any rules were broken by the Runner. The rule is against eating bodies outside the hive, not in dragging bodies into the hive. You said your body was eventually eaten, which implies that it wasn't the Runner, so he wasn't dragging you into the hive in order to eat you. He just dragged you into the hive. Perhaps it was a new player that thought you were still alive.

If anything, the fault is with the rule itself and it's just a shitty situation that happened to you.

[Seehund]

I'm not convinced any rules were broken by the Runner. The rule is against eating bodies outside the hive, not in dragging bodies into the hive. You said your body was eventually eaten, which implies that it wasn't the Runner, so he wasn't dragging you into the hive in order to eat you. He just dragged you into the hive. Perhaps it was a new player that thought you were still alive.

If anything, the fault is with the rule itself and it's just a shitty situation that happened to you.

Thing is, both dragging and eating put the person out of the round, one definitely and the other almost certainly definitely, too.

In that case, I saw dragging simply as a circumvention of "eating", as to prevent retrieval of the body.

I'd say the rule definitely needs some fixing, for clarity.

[Rahlzel]

But there's no way to really know that, so any administrative action on the person is a 50/50 chance that you're wrong or right.

Marines can still be DNA scanned before they die and then cloned later even if their body is destroyed, right? They're welcome to get scanned at round-start just in case their mission goes ass-up, so I'm removing that rule completely for now.

[Feweh]

But there's no way to really know that, so any administrative action on the person is a 50/50 chance that you're wrong or right.

Marines can still be DNA scanned before they die and then cloned later even if their body is destroyed, right? They're welcome to get scanned at round-start just in case their mission goes ass-up, so I'm removing that rule completely for now.

Noo, they're not..
Apop was adamant about no pre-scanning for the cloner.

Postby apophis775 » Thu Feb 04, 2016 10:46 pm

100% meta and powergaming.

Doing this, WILL result in action taken by staff.

Additionally, if this becomes a standard, I'll removing cloning 100%.


Cloning is for recovering bodies ONLY.

viewtopic.php?f=64&t=5496

[Rahlzel]

This complaint is proof that this rule is a failure, because there's no certainty that a Xeno dragging a body into the hive means to have them eaten, or just happens to be dragging the body because they think it's a good idea or are new to the game. Therefore, the rule needs to be removed, therefore pre-scanning is fine to balance it. It has been for years on every other SS13 server. It's not metagaming when its a precaution.

Though best-case scenario is either to remove the cloning system completely or have everyone's DNA auto-scanned in and usable once every round.

[apophis775]

I've talked with rahlzel about this. We are going to figure out a solution.

Really, Aliens shouldn't be touching dead bodies, but at the same time the no eating bodies thing was only temporary until we got the digestion lag fixed (which we did).

But pre-scanning is STILL meta.

My current thought is this:

1. Remove Cloning
2. Extend Defib time to 10 minutes
3. Give Debfibs 3 charges (must be charged on ship)
4. Disable pulling marines by aliens, make aliens use Grab (once we fix grab so it doesn't ungrab after a few seconds)

[Mitchs98]

I've talked with rahlzel about this. We are going to figure out a solution.

Really, Aliens shouldn't be touching dead bodies, but at the same time the no eating bodies thing was only temporary until we got the digestion lag fixed (which we did).

But pre-scanning is STILL meta.

My current thought is this:

1. Remove Cloning
2. Extend Defib time to 10 minutes
3. Give Debfibs 3 charges (must be charged on ship)
4. Disable pulling marines by aliens, make aliens use Grab (once we fix grab so it doesn't ungrab after a few seconds)

See. Thing is. Even with defibs being a thing, most people have no clue how to correctly use them or use them at all. Ten minutes doesn't help much, at all. Nor does it help if the marine is decapped(which believe me, will become the new meta to do). It doesn't help chestbursted marines either. Which, again, makes removing cloning the worst idea possible.

Just..remove the aliens abilities to eat corpses, have a rule against hiding them outside the hive, and problem solved, really. Eat live marines for transport? Sure thing. Just add the same code for eating dead as you did harming dead.

[Westhybrid]

This is a good line of debate, but we should probably take it to Suggestions. None of this is relevant to Mitch's Staff complaint on Jack, who's conduct really isn't in question anymore. Recommending a close.

[SASoperative]

This has been resolved regardless at this point but for now I am going to lock this... This is not a discussion for cloning this is a admin report.