Axel Shaw - Grief

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Heckenshutze
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Axel Shaw - Grief

Post by Heckenshutze » 10 May 2016, 10:56

Your Byond Key: Heckenshutze

Your Character Name: Hecken Shutze

Accused Byond Key(if known): dunno

Character Name: Axel Shaw

Approximate time and date of the incident (Central US Time for fastest results): 10-06-16 , 10:16 am (Caracas GMT -4:30)

What rule(s) were broken: No griefing

Description of the incident: Axel Shaw was a survivor who got rescued by the USCM, eventually the xenos gained the upper hand and the marines had to retreat, after getting on the Sulaco, Axel started shooting at the marines and myself, with the excuse, "The marines didn't care about the colonist" .. I know survivors can be hostile but why you're going to be hostile after we saved your sorry ass? we never fired back at him since we were busy with the xenos so he managed to kill some of us.

Evidence (screenshots, logs, etc):

Image

Image

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How you would punish the accused: It is up to you

(I don't know how to do the spoiler thing, sorry for the images)
Marine: Ruben Dario
Yautja: Makauu’rel
Synthetic: Saturn / Shepherd (old model)

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Feweh
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Re: Axel Shaw - Grief

Post by Feweh » 10 May 2016, 11:05

This is the one of those "Excuses" to grief, players like these will look for any justifiable reason to be able to shoot people.

Looks like he got bored late in the round and went wild.

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Rob606
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Re: Axel Shaw - Grief

Post by Rob606 » 10 May 2016, 12:37

Was he brought to the Sulaco? I'm pretty sure as soon as a player allows the marines to bring them aboard they must adhere to Marine Law from then on.
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Re: Axel Shaw - Grief

Post by Adjective » 10 May 2016, 14:32

Survivors either choose to be friendly or choose to be hostile. You do not switch once marines "save" you.

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Re: Axel Shaw - Grief

Post by Feweh » 10 May 2016, 19:05

Here's his statement from questioning him in-game about this. Only noticed him because he was wearing Armor as a BO.


Player PM from Fetdaniel/(Axel Shaw)(?): Ah that thing, that was because I got infected with an alien and in the roleplay, I asked them what they were doing here, and they said to have fun and kill stuff. so I my character sought to seek someone in command and help the understand the severity, when that failed and we got assaulted and face hugged I started to deny aliens any bodies to hatch in, as a last effort.

He did also say this though, which is nice.

Player PM from Fetdaniel/(Axel Shaw)(?): Well Im all for rules that make the server fun, I was in error and my choice turned out bad, It's a good thing you contacted me. I'll be careful about killing anything from the same species hence. :)

Needless to say I don't think this player has ever read our rules.

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Re: Axel Shaw - Grief

Post by fetdaniel » 10 May 2016, 20:45

I just got notified of this by Feweh, he was polite when bringing it up although I feel he considered me a much more mindless player who hadn't read the rules than I am, that's not an error though, it's probably a valid suspicion to have but that is not
the point of this post.

Contrary to moderator Feweh's suspicion I HAVE read the rules, but skimmed the professions I wasn't going to try out in the beginning, I did try out BO today first time and didn't remember the armor rule because I have never had access to armor as a ship crew before (doctor)and the rule faded away from memory, I just went and opened the locker and saw it as a way to get extra storage space. My bad. I am tired atm.

--The main point of this post is I'm sorry for making your round bad OP, that was never my intent, nor to grief.--

Regarding the grief event:
I remember reading that survivors did get leeway on being agressive vs marines, I interpretated that as survivors being a third team essentially and can cooperate with marines if they wish but are otherwise free to do what good RP dictates.
Important lesson to take home from this is that its not fun to be killed, and not part of survivor objectives to kill humans so
I was in error to do it because they apparently counts as marines/humans in effect, to ensure the game is fun killing should be avoided unless its primary objective. And survivors choose to be crazy and shoot or not at round start. I understand now, I hadn't given it any thought beyond reading the survivor information on the wiki, be mindful others might make this mistake.

I had an RP reason as my survivor had tried to talk with marines planetside and on the radio and got no response, they wouldn't listen, so my character thought they aren't taking this serious I need to talk with someone on command. Then we got attacked and I got facehugged. As a survivor I knew my fate was sealed so I desperately tried to deny the aliens any bodies to hatch in so I shot the marines nearby. This made sense to my survivor who just saw the marines as a way for the aliens to spread and kill more humans, it was RP. Still it was a bad judgement in the game setting where we are multiple players that roleplay for enjoyment.

Regarding what is good RP and not, disregarding rules and fun for players, is a matter of opinion, and I'm fairly content with my choices from that perspective. I wasn't tired of the game and just fucked shit up, I rp:ed what I thought was acceptable and within the rules. Have said it a bunch of times now but I find it's the key point: I had no griefing intent.
----------------------

Finally some interpretation time with rules and written instructions: wiki/Survivor
"You are permitted to act hostile to both other survivors, and marines. You should however, not bonzai charge them, this is not the way of the survivor, if you plan on being outright hostile, try to come up with a reason why you are, and roleplay."
Which is exactly how I remembered it, I had read that before. Still I will of course follow the instructions I got
from mod Feweh, but you should all consider that this is what the wiki says right now, if that wiki entry is in error it should change. (Not being bossy here I'm just saying it should because, ya know, it would be better)

Rules:
1. The lethal force rule is explicitly stated to be marine specific, with the conditional rule "These also apply to Survivors once they have been rescued." Which I feel doesn't apply as I wasn't rescued I was totally ignored. And rescued I also interpret
as in the realm of RP, if they captured me with a taser I wouldnt call it rescuing. Not that I was ever up on the Sulaco to begin with anyway, but my point remains.

2. And the no griefing rule (6) - "Griefing - Defined as the perceived intent of one player wanting to cause grief or annoyance to other players or to the server without any roleplay reason. The emphasis is on "intent". If an Admin or Mod believes that the players intent is to grief then action will be taken."

So action is correctly taken in this case but I consider myself not to have broken these rules.

Still I won't do it again. Because it obviously surprised the marines and and in the hectic game play they might have just
missed me and my communication(still think it was bad RP.ing on their part ;) haha), and in essense any human should be careful with killing or hurting other players as lethal force rules and similar say, not just marines unless its obvious and I shoot in the air as survivor back off, and then they know I'm crazy and get a chance to deal with me. Because, it's supposed to be fun for all players and I understand that if it's not obvious like humans and aliens then agression becomes problematic.

tl;dr
My bad, I had reasons, but still, my bad. I've learned my lesson. No bad intent, didn't break the rules as I understood them. :heart:

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Re: Axel Shaw - Grief

Post by Feweh » 13 May 2016, 02:14

Spoke to player in-game, he understands what he did wrong.
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