Bill Carson Strikes Again

[Neray]

Your Byond Key: Neray

Your Character Name: Lillian White

Accused Byond Key(if known): -

Character Name: Bill Carson

Approximate time and date of the incident: ~14:30 CST

What rule(s) were broken: 6 - Griefing

Description of the incident:
Carson was a delta PFC in that round. Bridge had about 13 reports from random marines on a ground accusing him of intentional AP friendly fire and even killing of his fellow squady Walter. MP team was given an order to arrest Carson. About a hour later, they finally found him. Whole execution stuff was halted due to bridge staff being busy with ground operations. MPs put him in perma. ~20 minutes later, MP named Nikolai walks in his cell to give him a coffee (or something like that), Carson murdered him. I heard stunbaton bashes, got in brig and managed to lock him down and call for support before he got out with a tactical shotgun. Later on Carson was killed in firefight, in which he heavily injured another MP and XO.

Right after Carson's death we had a raid of 3 baldies, they managed to kill about 5 marines before MPs took em down. I'm not sure if those 2 events are connected, but might be a good idea to check it.

Listen, people, we all know who Carson is. Why are we allowing him to grief every single damn time? I mean, he was like that since his first round and I saw people getting permabans for 100 times lesser things. Please, do something with him.

How you would punish the accused:
Get him his long earned permaban. I can't remember a single round where he didn't grief somebody.

[Feweh]

Someone will look into this.

[freemysoul]

Investigation Underway, Expect results within a day.

[EMT_321]

I was Walter, a squadmate to Bill Carson. He was burstfiring AP rounds into the back of squadmates as runners were running around us from a single direction. ultimately shooting me 4-5 times in the chest and requiring me to medical evac within the first 10-15 minutes of landing. I saw him fire a few times from the rear and run away, but then was in and out of surgery/stasis for long enough to miss the rest of his antics. After he burstfired me the final time, I and Robert "Caddy" Timmins demanded he stop burstfiring or remove the AP ammo, which Carson was vocal spoke against. I went into crit/stasis bag soon after that demand, so I dont know what came of it.

I did punch him once in the chest after he had put 3 AP rounds into my chest and fractured my ribs, so i'll accept any consequences that come of that.

[Fitchace]

I did not intentionally kill any marines at all. I accidentally FFed during combat which the squad got upset about. So I left the squads designated location because of death threats from delta members. Upon getting to the Sulaco to fix a broken arm after battling the predators with Charlie and Alpha, I am stopped by a MP who demands me to drop my weapon and give myself up for arrest. Upon doing so I am instantly stunned and cuffed. I gave myself up peacefully, hoping that command would listen to me instead of just throwing me in perma with a broken arm. So I had a choice, to attempt to break out, or rot in prison for the rest of the round. I decided to attempt to break out, and planned on making an escape. I befriended the MP so his guard was down when he went into my cell, whom I murdered and then was killed by MP's with lethal weapons a few minutes later. I did not have any guns/knives on me, just a baton and the dead MP's tasor.

[Neray]

I did not have any guns/knives on me, just a baton and the dead MP's tasor.

Actually, yeah, that's true. Forgot that MP got wounded due to friendly fire. You used a pepperspray. Still, you murdered a MP and I had way more reports about you than just from Walter. Even some from alpha.

Plus, I think we should consider your previous crimes against humanity, common sense and players. You, sir, are a cancer.

[Fitchace]

always a pleasure to make CM a fun and immersive experience.

[McRipfist]

Can confirm the AP friendly fire on Walter Blanco but can't confirm his death. Bill Carson said it was "An accident". After this the acting SL tried to get him to hand over the AP rounds but it turned out Bill was ONLY carrying AP rounds and he refused. He later ran off after I threatened to shoot him if he came near Walter again. Frankly even if it was an accident you don't only carry AP rounds and not expect to FF your comrades. For such an "Experienced" player it's unacceptable.

[Fitchace]

Why have AP then, doesn't it do more damage against aliens?

[Neray]

Why have AP then, doesn't it do more damage against aliens?

Carson, cut off your trolling, please.

[Fitchace]

So the wiki says this "Armour Piercing Mag. Thirty (30) 10mm AP rounds. Has better armor penetration" I don't know if this means if it does more damage against aliens, but if it doesn't I just won't take them anymore unless the Sulaco is getting boarded by bad humans.

[Feweh]

Will see how many players were hit and for how long.
We have visual qeues now and chat logs. Theres no excuse for numerois FF anymore

[SecretStamos (Joshuu)]

In my own personal experiences with Carson, I've never found him to be someone to intentionally shoot teammates. He might run away and leave you to die and weld the door to save his own hide, but I don't think he's the type to put a bullet in your skull for fun.

But the logs will certainly shed light on this situation.

[freemysoul]

Everyone quiet, It takes time to get logs and JEEZ there's a lot to sift through.

[MilesWolfe]

looking into the friendly fire, 3 marines were hit in the span of a minute, these marines were Walter bronco, Marcus Warren, and Raymond Lopez, Walter being shot the most with two rounds, all rounds used were ap. But this seems like it was just normal FF, he was shooting xenos for the remainder of the incident. Hed even apologized multiple times for it ic.

Ive found that the arrest happened pretty much exactly as carson claims, he was order to drop his weapons, he did, then he was batoned, however, for some reason that mp (Jesse Dean Armstrong/Spider4062) Was saying bill shot him just moments before the arrest. But i found no evidence of this. While arrested he constantly asked for medical treatment, but it seems like this was ignored and is a violation of marine law on the mp's part.

Now regarding the escape... and murder of the mp...

ADMIN: HELP: Fitchace/(Bill Carson): Am I allowed to attempt to break out of prison if I am in permanantly - heard by 6 non-AFK admins.
This ahelp went unanswered.

So the logs shot that mp CaptainNips/(Nikolai 'Extractor' Luzhin) Went into bills cell, bell disarmed him, to his baton, beat him, took his ID, then shot him with a shotgun. Not long after he got into a firefight with another mp.

So, with my findings, its my opinion that the two bid issues here is that bill killed an mp, and stole their id. He wasnt given any antag objectives or anything, so theres really no reason for him to have went with this course of action, even if your arrested for something you did/didnt do. What he should have done, was ahelped about his arrest, and the denial of his rights as a prisoner from mps.

As for punishment, I believe there should be one, not for the friendly fire incident as I believe it was a genuine accident, but for the actions he took during his escape, killing an mp and stealing their ID. He has received multiple notes, and bans in the past, including warnings about id theft, and using lethal force against mps. Therefore, i strongly feel that a minimum ban of 3 days, and or possibly a maximum ban of 5 days with a possible perma request be placed, considering his history and reputation on this server.

[Fitchace]

So the logs shot that mp CaptainNips/(Nikolai 'Extractor' Luzhin) Went into bills cell, bell disarmed him, to his baton, beat him, took his ID, then shot him with a shotgun. Not long after he got into a firefight with another mp.

I am assuming you typed Bell meaning Bill. I really don't remember shooting any MP with a shotgun, I just beat him with a stun baton and grabbed his ID so I could get out of the cell. If I had escaped I would of dropped the ID after exiting the brig.

[TR-BlackDragon]

Post actual attack logs if you could please miles.

[Eluxor]

Well, I was a MP that round, it was a pretty chaotic and action packed round for a MP.
Command told us that Bill Carson killed another marine, Walter, with multiples reports of other marines about Carson's actions. We arrested (we were 3 MP's together, 4 in total) and moved him to permabrig, about his broken arm, we asked a doctor about it, they told us that it was fine, because he splint it.
Anyways after some minutes later, Me and Carly (one MP) heard in the Radio that Carson killed a MP, we sprinted towards security where we both grabbed shotguns, There was a BO next to the door, Lillith or something.
Then, Carly opened the door, inmediatly got hit by peperspray by Carson, downing her and letting the shotgun fall in the floor. I inmediatly opened fire, Nikolai was dead (completely devoid of life, while carson was right next to him, and his body was looted) , Carly was on the floor and the shotgun was right on Carson's feet. I just shoot to kill multiple times. After he died, we took Nikolai to cloning and Carly shoot Carson's head off. I took it as a prize and kept it on my backpack.
And about the other baldies shooting, it is true, some recently joined marines started shooting near the cafeteria, killing other marines before we managed to gun them down. It was a pretty chaotic round.

[MilesWolfe]

Code: Select all

[14:51:39]ATTACK: Fitchace/(Bill Carson) disarmed Nikolai 'Extractor' Luzhin (captainnips)
[14:51:40]ATTACK: Fitchace/(Bill Carson) disarmed Nikolai 'Extractor' Luzhin (captainnips)
[14:51:46]ATTACK: Fitchace/(Bill Carson) disarmed Nikolai 'Extractor' Luzhin (captainnips)
[14:51:50]ATTACK: Fitchace/(Bill Carson) attacked CaptainNips/(Nikolai 'Extractor' Luzhin) with stunbaton (INTENT: HURT) (DAMTYE: BRUTE)
[14:51:50]ATTACK: Fitchace/(Bill Carson) stunned CaptainNips/(Nikolai 'Extractor' Luzhin) with the the stunbaton.
[14:51:51]ATTACK: Fitchace/(Bill Carson) attacked CaptainNips/(Nikolai 'Extractor' Luzhin) with stunbaton (INTENT: HURT) (DAMTYE: BRUTE)
[14:51:51]ATTACK: Fitchace/(Bill Carson) stunned CaptainNips/(Nikolai 'Extractor' Luzhin) with the the stunbaton.
[14:51:52]ATTACK: Fitchace/(Bill Carson) attacked CaptainNips/(Nikolai 'Extractor' Luzhin) with stunbaton (INTENT: HURT) (DAMTYE: BRUTE)
[14:51:52]ATTACK: Fitchace/(Bill Carson) stunned CaptainNips/(Nikolai 'Extractor' Luzhin) with the the stunbaton.
[14:51:54]ATTACK: Fitchace/(Bill Carson) attacked CaptainNips/(Nikolai 'Extractor' Luzhin) with stunbaton (INTENT: HURT) (DAMTYE: BRUTE)
[14:51:54]EMOTE: Nikolai 'Extractor' Luzhin/CaptainNips : <B>SSGT Nikolai 'Extractor' Luzhin</B> screams!
[14:51:54]ATTACK: Fitchace/(Bill Carson) stunned CaptainNips/(Nikolai 'Extractor' Luzhin) with the the stunbaton.
[14:51:55]ATTACK: Fitchace/(Bill Carson) attacked CaptainNips/(Nikolai 'Extractor' Luzhin) with stunbaton (INTENT: HURT) (DAMTYE: BRUTE)
[14:51:55]EMOTE: Nikolai 'Extractor' Luzhin/CaptainNips : <B>SSGT Nikolai 'Extractor' Luzhin</B> screams!
[14:51:55]ATTACK: Fitchace/(Bill Carson) stunned CaptainNips/(Nikolai 'Extractor' Luzhin) with the the stunbaton.
[14:51:58]ATTACK: Fitchace/(Bill Carson) attacked CaptainNips/(Nikolai 'Extractor' Luzhin) with stunbaton (INTENT: HURT) (DAMTYE: BRUTE)
[14:51:58]EMOTE: Unknown (as Nikolai 'Extractor' Luzhin)/CaptainNips : <B>SSGT Unknown (as Nikolai 'Extractor' Luzhin)</B> screams!
[14:51:58]ATTACK: Fitchace/(Bill Carson) stunned CaptainNips/(Nikolai 'Extractor' Luzhin) with the the stunbaton.

It pretty much goes on like that up until [14:52:12] which is when he finally stops harm batoning him. He didnt shoot the mp, i misread what it said, but youll see what happened witht he next set, which is when the mps engaged him. The first attack log is the one i misread, due to bill having worn the dead mp's ID.

Code: Select all

[14:54:03]ATTACK: Craig Boone (captainpigskins) shot Bill Carson (as Nikolai 'Extractor' Luzhin) (fitchace) with a the shotgun slug
[14:54:03]EMOTE: Bill Carson (as Nikolai 'Extractor' Luzhin)/Fitchace : <B>SSGT Bill Carson (as Nikolai 'Extractor' Luzhin)</B> screams!
[14:54:07]ATTACK: Lillian White (neray) shot Bill Carson (as Nikolai 'Extractor' Luzhin) (fitchace) with a the pistol bullet
[14:54:07]ATTACK: Franz Speer (eluxor) shot Bill Carson (as Nikolai 'Extractor' Luzhin) (fitchace) with a the shotgun slug
[14:54:08]EMOTE: Bill Carson (as Nikolai 'Extractor' Luzhin)/Fitchace : <B>SSGT Bill Carson (as Nikolai 'Extractor' Luzhin)</B> screams!
[14:54:08]SAY: Craig Boone/CaptainPigSkins : FUCK!!!
[14:54:09]SAY: Elric Hunt/John238 : KILL CARSON
[14:54:09]ATTACK: Eluxor/(Franz Speer) attacked Fitchace/(Bill Carson) with MK221 tactical shotgun (Wielded) (INTENT: HELP) (DAMTYE: BRUTE)
[14:54:09]EMOTE: Bill Carson (as Nikolai 'Extractor' Luzhin)/Fitchace : <B>SSGT Bill Carson (as Nikolai 'Extractor' Luzhin)</B> screams!
[14:54:10]ATTACK: Franz Speer (eluxor) shot Bill Carson (as Nikolai 'Extractor' Luzhin) (fitchace) with a the shotgun slug
[14:54:11]EMOTE: Bill Carson (as Nikolai 'Extractor' Luzhin)/Fitchace : <B>SSGT Bill Carson (as Nikolai 'Extractor' Luzhin)</B> screams!
[14:54:12]ATTACK: Franz Speer (eluxor) shot Bill Carson (as Nikolai 'Extractor' Luzhin) (fitchace) with a the shotgun slug
[14:54:14]ACCESS: Logout: *no key*/(Bill Carson)
[14:54:14]ACCESS: Login: Fitchace/(Bill Carson)
[14:54:20]ATTACK: Zn/(Carly Murray) attacked *no key*/(Bill Carson) with taser gun (INTENT: HELP) (DAMTYE: BRUTE)

And thats just about it, he didnt shoot anyone else, but he did harm-baton the mp to death and stole his ID.

[Neray]

he didnt shoot anyone else

Because we used about 6 men to deal with him, 3 of whom he managed to stun with a pepperspray.

[Feweh]

Will discuss this and sort it out shortly.

[Fitchace]

Griefing - Defined as the perceived intent of one player wanting to cause grief or annoyance to other players or to the server without any roleplay reason. The emphasis is on "intent". If an Admin or Mod believes that the players intent is to grief then action will be taken. You can appeal these actions on the Ban Appeals forum. Any damage to the station or players caused by griefing can be repaired at an Admin's discretion.

The reporters case is – I am suggested to be a griefer because I friendly fired a marine AND killed a MP, and these actions are without any roleplay reason.

1. The friendly fire incident cannot be accused as griefing because it was a complete accident.
2. The next issue of killing the MP by wrongfully imprisoned marine is another roleplayed scene where I was purposefully neglected by the MP’s and mistreated. Instead of being a rowdy angry marine at the MP’s I kept my wits and gained their trust so I could attempt my escape. The death of the first MP was unfortunate but I wanted to escape prison. Like every other prisoner wants.

Stealing the ID Issue
1. How else am I supposed to escape prison without temporarily using the MP’s ID card to open up the locked doors.

[username123]

I was not involved in that round, but i have to say something before any action is taken against Carson and i beg the staff to read what i have to say and not delete it, but if they feel like they have to delete this post, it's ok, i understand the rules. Also, pardon my grammar, english is not my native language.

1-) He didn't intentionally shot other marines before the arrest and attack logs prove that, for me, this looks like the people that got hurt by the friendly fire were just whining ic against the incident just because everybody knows carson as some kind of antagonist in the game and they probably called the MP to arrest carson for an accident with the malicious intent to take him out of the round, which worked perfectly because he was going to be executed by the MP according to:

Whole execution stuff was halted due to bridge staff being busy with ground operations

I belive that if the person that plays as carson in the game had used another name, this whole thing would never have occurred and to prove that, the staff only has to see the title of this thread "Bill Carson Strikes Again" if this was a regular report of a person that got griefed by someone else, the title would have been very diferent, but this title only makes me think like this is a personal attack instead of a player report.

... and Carly shoot Carson's head off. I took it as a prize and kept it on my backpack.

This is definetly not an attempt to remove a player from the game, this is instead an example of the very nice rolepaying by the mentally stable character that Eluxor had the chance to play that round.

2-) Carson was roleplaying, his character knew that he was going to be executed and he just took a chance against the MP by dissarming him and beating him to death with his own stun baton, in moments like this, you have to act quickly, specially against someone that has a radio to comunicate with other people in the station and has the equipment to kill you in seconds.

3-) Stealing an ID is against the rules when you do it "for the lulz" or "just because xddd" but before jumping into conclusions, Carson knew that he was going to be executed by the whole crew, he stole the ID from the MP because his life was in danger, and the rules states "... Exceptions: Taking an ID from a corpse to get into an area in order to save your life, or someone else that is an IMMEDIATE necessity. ID MUST be returned if the player is revived (if possible)" he only took the ID to get the fuck out of security because he was going to be killed by the crew (and he was killed) and to prove that, you only have to read that Eluxor said where he states that Carly shot Carson's head off (in this case, mods should investigate if Carly was a MP, because MP are not allowed to use lethal weapons against marines).

4-) As far as i know, there are no rules that say that players of the server have the obligation to report to the staff of the actions (be good or bad) that are against the rules or not against the rules, reporting is just a cortesy, not an obligation, Carson accidentally shot 3 marines: not against the rules, Victims of the FF reported carson to the MPs: not against the rules, Carson was arrested by an incompetent MP that refused to give Carson his "constitutional rights" as a Marine of the USCM (medical treatment) : against the rules but for some reason Carson didn't reported the MP, maybe he wanted to roleplay? only Carson knows, Carson roleplays with the MP in an attemp to make the MP "low his guard" to take his stun baton and beat him to death to take his ID and escape from the prison were he was going to be executed by a false arrest : NOT AGAINST THE RULES

This point goes to MilesWolfe, where he says that Carson had to report the infringement of the rules by the MP that refused to send Carson to medbay by his request before taking any roleplaying action:

... even if your arrested for something you did/didnt do. What he should have done, was ahelped about his arrest, and the denial of his rights as a prisoner from mps.

[Neray]

Stealing an ID

I guess they're talking about notes from another round.

I belive that if the person that plays as carson in the game had used another name, this whole thing would never have occurred and to prove that, the staff only has to see the title of this thread "Bill Carson Strikes Again" if this was a regular report of a person that got griefed by someone else, the title would have been very diferent, but this title only makes me think like this is a personal attack instead of a player report.

Yes, it's somewhat true. I don't like Carson and I didn't like about 70+ rounds that he ruined by being a "oh, I'm roleplaying this way" retarded CO, XO, BO and any other role. As well as many other players, last time I checked. Personally, I would like to see him permabanned for all his previous and current crimes, cause their numbers are just fucking insane. Yeah, usually he doesn't break any, hm, rules, but being a total dick EVERY DAMN TIME FOR FEW YEARS should meet consequences at some point.

For example, usual Carson's round: take CO, make everyone want to mutiny by arresting SLs and specs at round start (or something at this level), lockdown bridge, call for backup ending up with XRT, order bald CE to overload SM, die.

I don't like this kind of immersive experience and I can count those who do with 10 fingers.

Call it half-griefing of sorts. He's trying to ruin every single damn round he's playing in one way or another.

[Feweh]

Carson plays a selfish character whos only concern is himself.

He does it well and its not against the rules.
We're still discussing things, expect a response soon.