TheSpoonyCroy - Banned for trying to stop ERG

[Skelton]

Your Byond Key:Skelton_UK

Your Character Name: Malcolm 'Red' Wallace

Their Byond key: TheSpoonyCroy

Approximate time and date of the incident (Central Us Time for best results): 8:30am Central (I think)

Which Admin Protocols (viewtopic.php?f=57&t=5647) were broken: Banned Immediately for trying to stop ERG

Description of the incident: Two Marines, Asher Jardine and Her Vakula engaged in ERG firefight at the end of the round. Admins screaming for it to stop. I intervene and disarm one and try to disarm the other to stop them firing weapons at each other (in the scuffle I accidentally struck someone with an empty pistol click spamming to disarm). Coronel says don't move and don't disarm as it does the same thing to the logs. Immediately stopped and got shot to death by Asher Jardine. Was then banned without warning about 2 minutes later. Having had already ceased trying to intervene from the moment Coronel said to stop.

Evidence (screenshots, logs, etc): http://imgur.com/a/Tomdf

How you would punish the accused: This is the second time Spoony has jumped the gun. During an incident in which I played an officer on the bridge a marine hacked into the bridge and shot at command staff, I defended myself with my pistol until MP's turned up where upon I immediately holstered my weapon. Spoony immediately threatened to punish me for shooting at an innocent unarmed man without gaining any of the backstory. I attempted to discuss both issues with him personally and both times he has shut down these conversations.

From my experiences he has never attempted to discuss a situation and always jumps to mod tools first. I personally don't think he's fit for purpose, his priorities are backwards.

[slc97]

Alright, here's the deal. It is not your job to stop ERG, it is ours. By engaging ERG, you committed ERG. You cannot fight other marines at round end in any way. If ERG is committed against you, we will handle it. If ERG is committed at all we will handle it.

There is no warning before a ban on ERG. You get banned no questions asked. It's in the rules.

Finally, you should not be PMing staff about your bans as you did here: https://gyazo.com/fab5ddc89e42948e5f7e602e2ccd8462
If you want your ban discussed, you bring it to the forums. Not Byond PMs.

[Skelton]

I asked him about it once, he told me to make a complaint, which I was in the process of doing anyway. If he wants to ban me for ERG even though I halted what I was doing when I was asked to by Coronel then that's his choice. I have not contested the ban, but the way I was banned. I tried to stop the ERG via a disarm, which I did not know caused a logging issue as well. Which is again why I immediately just stopped when Coronel said this. The ban was harsh, I would say unwarranted but you may disagree by the letter of your law but the way it was handled by Spoony and the way other situations have been handled by Spoony is ridiculous. He is inflammatory rather than supportive.

Finally, I don't want the ban rescinded and I'm not trying to have it rescinded. I want admins and mods alike to review the way they intervene. I have been in other situations where I've been bwoinked, one in particular where I asked to command the Rasp to the ground because PO was SSD to which Coronel stated that BO's cannot, at any point, leave the ship to the ground and aren't allowed to be armed from the armory until they are boarded. I have no doubt in my mind Spoony would have, as he has done previously, reprimanded or threatened to ban me without ever at any point asking for my side of the story (and in some cases disregarding it completely). Like I said earlier, his behaviour is, was and has been totally inflammatory and not at all helpful. For example, had Coronel not instructed that disarms cause log issues I would simply have not known that and would have possibly in the future been banned for disarming someone firing a weapon at End of Round. A terrible trait for someone with a mentors tag.

[slc97]

Is this the situation you were referring to previously?: https://gyazo.com/365b2afe80423b848dff1c0d523b2c5a

This situation where Spoony asked you to explain the situation and then immediately apologized for misunderstanding the situation and you gave him attitude. I see absolutely no attitude from Spoony in this situation. If anything, he was brief because he was handling the marine hacking the bridge, but he was not rude or giving you attitude or anything. He did not threaten to ban you and he was rather polite and openly apologetic.

Furthermore, Spoony is not a mentor, he is a trial-mod. He was pretty simply doing his job.

[TheSpoonyCroy]

I admit I could of handled that first case way better. I could say my unfamiliarity with the mod tools, but that would be a rather unsatisfactory answer and I'm incredibly sorry for that however I didn't threaten you with a ban. I honestly haven't placed many bans in my short career as a trial mod, so far except for ergs which this is.

Also reason why I tried to shut the the 2nd talk (over byond pm) is because its protocol not to talk about bans on anything besides sanctioned channels (places that are logged for CM) so those logs don't go "missing"

Edit: to your recent reply: It looked like an improper execution because he looked unarmed (since his weapon was in his armor) running away from you while you fired your pistol at him. I was handling 2 cases at current moment, so I had to be very brief. Also I'm sorry if I seemed hostile or inflammatory but I have no ill will towards you

[Skelton]

When a moderator tells you that you're shooting an unarmed man in an improper execution, it's generally a threat of a ban, certainly felt like I was about to be removed from the round to say the least. Like I said I found his responses to be inflammatory considering I was asking about a hostage taking on the bridge and he immediately got defensive. I also reject the notion that Spoony was working with the facts at hand because he witnessed me chase the marine out of the brig and holster my weapon when the MP's caught the marine. At no point did it even look like an improper execution.

As I stated, I'm not here asking for my ban to be removed. Do as you wish. The EORG rules were in place and I violated them. Regardless of how minorly. My complaint is that I don't think your actions would have helped me at all to learn what went wrong if I wasn't as stubborn as I am. If I don't learn my lesson because no lesson was provided, what is the point? If anything it makes me less likely to want to play on your server and I don't consider myself to be a particular nuisance either. Just a new player learning. Meanwhile you have some members who deliberately go out of their way to 'greytide' as it were. Barricading Brig, Bridge and Medbay, blowing up the SM and in general being a pain in the ass and they seem to go unpunished and unwarned as they do it repeteadly. It gives me cause for great concern

[Feweh]

Round is over, theres no reason to intervene and stop it.

Its our policy to auto-ban anyone generating combat logs against friendlies. There is no questioning, talk or investigation done.

If youre generating combat logs against friendlies even with good intentions its a ban.

[Skelton]

Which I accepted when that was brought to my attention. I still find the other part of my complaint valid however people want to disregard it. That is up to your staff, I've said what I wanted to say but I don't expect anything to come of it. As such, since I feel it won't be acted upon I have explained to spoony that I will not take up any matters of administration or moderation with him as I dislike his methods. Feel free to do as you wish with this thread.

[Aetsuki]

Your other complaint I find less valid then the ERG. You're upset because he PMed you about something he thought was a situation, and you felt threatened? We PM players to talk to them. Like you said, you're not a veteran, so its fair if you don't understand that's how that works. He even apologized, and as SLC said, you gave him attitude. All in all, it might have been a mistake with your wording, in the future I'd keep that in mind when responding to staff, as it looks very much like you're being sarcastic about the situation, rather than asking for legitimate advice.

[Skelton]

I put that down to personal bias, Aetsuki. I thought he was being rude, you think the reverse, as is how you will always think when put in that circumstance. Like I said I will simply not approach him for assistance in the future.