Marines not being able to use advanced medicine

[Sad_Corn]

Summary (a quick, 2-3 sentence summary):
Marines would be able to only use roll/gauze/auto-injectors

Benefits (How this will benefit the server and game as a whole):

More imersion, less shitter marines actually bringinr advanced trauma/burn kits, and being rambo-medics.

Details (Description of how you think this would work, the benefits, etc):

Using advanced trauma/burn kits and splint yourself would be considered power game. marines can't use those types of things, unless it's an emergency.

Implementation (Optional, if you have an idea how to implement it):

Change the rules

[Surrealistik]

-1. Marines are taught how to do first aid which I'm pretty sure would include trauma packs that feature things that appear easily applied like biogel and such; these ain't surgery kits.

[Sarah_U.]

-1, don't straight out disallow a mechanic. If you really think it needs a nerf then reduce the effect like not wearing gloves during surgery and whatnot.

In real-life, someone can try to do surgery even if he doesn't know how, but the items won't magically say "Hey you can't do that" when he tries to use a scalpel and kills the patient.

[Snypehunter007]

+1 for making medics relevant again. I'very seen rounds where the medics barely can treat anybody because everyone else is carrying a full health kit on them. I am fine with them being able to use gauze, ointment, and, to a lesser extent, autoinjectors.

[Surrealistik]

+1 for making medics relevant again. I'very seen rounds where the medics barely can treat anybody because everyone else is carrying a full health kit on them. I am fine with them being able to use gauze, ointment, and, to a lesser extent, autoinjectors.

>Implying medics are somehow irrelevant despite having all of the important supplies.

If that were true, Xenos wouldn't metatarget the fuck out of them.

[Eenkogneeto]

http://colonial-marines.com/viewtopic.p ... 25#p100071
Suggested this rule change with the draft, Was denied. Probably denied now too, Dunno.

[Sad_Corn]

>Implying medics are somehow irrelevant despite having all of the important supplies.

If that were true, Xenos wouldn't metatarget the fuck out of them.

A marine can literally carry every single important pill, and would not be powergame (probably meta in that case)

Medics aren't irrelevant, but with marines carrying supplies around, they may be not essential

[Surrealistik]

A marine can literally carry every single important pill, and would not be powergame (probably meta in that case)

Medics aren't irrelevant, but with marines carrying supplies around, they may be not essential

In practice they don't.

In practice the medics get all the pills and supplies (especially since they actually have access to MedVends).

Medics remain very important whether or not Marines can use a glorified first aid kit; again the incessant Xenu meta-targeting of them says it all.

[Sad_Corn]

In practice they don't.

In practice the medics get all the pills and supplies (especially since they actually have access to MedVends).

Medics remain very important whether or not Marines can use a glorified first aid kit; again the incessant Xenu meta-targeting of them says it all.

Get all supplies? What?

If you want to get supplies as marine, just move to medbay and ask for a doctor, he will give everything that you want, it's a fact.

And i'm not talking about one first aid kit, i already lotted a headless marine that had two medikits. 1 for trauma/burn/splints, and another one for pills. And in practice they carry atleast tramatol and kelo, plus some trauma/burn/splints. And a health analyzer, of course.

It's a powergame problem, same thing as doctors making multiple surgeries at once, the old and good "Drag a pulse rifle and never reload" (Fixed by pulling nerf) and now "Grab some trauma/burn kits, and don't use medics"

[Sarah_U.]

It's my two cent here, but I feel like targetting the entire playerbase and making the game restrictive due to a select amount of powergamers make the entire game less and less appealing.

Sure, you COULD restrict the usage of equipment to a select few items, but then that'd be awkwardly stupid for some of those reasons:
- Can't use pills since they're not on the list.
- Can't used advanced burn / thrauma kits even thou they're basic medical equipment.
- Methods to speed or hinder the interaction with medical equipment could simply tweak all this in favor of the medics, who would be much more efficient at handling wounded and in return have a bigger value and necessity since they'd be the only fast responders on the field.

So in short, I still -1 this, but have to add a final note here: Medics are a role that you take not only for yourself, but the people around you. A medic will focus less on actual combat and more on making sure the marines keep being healthy. If you're a powergamey marine with 5182481 medical items fine by me, but usually you're not the one healing the 50 marines in line trying to run away from teh queen's screech mid-fight.

[Sad_Corn]

It's my two cent here, but I feel like targetting the entire playerbase and making the game restrictive due to a select amount of powergamers make the entire game less and less appealing.

Sure, you COULD restrict the usage of equipment to a select few items, but then that'd be awkwardly stupid for some of those reasons:
- Can't use pills since they're not on the list.
- Can't used advanced burn / thrauma kits even thou they're basic medical equipment.
- Methods to speed or hinder the interaction with medical equipment could simply tweak all this in favor of the medics, who would be much more efficient at handling wounded and in return have a bigger value and necessity since they'd be the only fast responders on the field.

So in short, I still -1 this, but have to add a final note here: Medics are a role that you take not only for yourself, but the people around you. A medic will focus less on actual combat and more on making sure the marines keep being healthy. If you're a powergamey marine with 5182481 medical items fine by me, but usually you're not the one healing the 50 marines in line trying to run away from teh queen's screech mid-fight.

Yeah, i know that is not nice to restrict more things, but pretty much EVERY SINGLE marine nerf is due powergamers (Never forget pulling nerf)

Medics shouldn't even use theirs guns, only when they're med evacing (People don't agree with them doing this but i don't care, i med evac anyways)

Basically, "This is why we can't have nice things"

(Yes, i already saw a marine acting as medic)

[Surrealistik]

Get all supplies? What?

If you want to get supplies as marine, just move to medbay and ask for a doctor, he will give everything that you want, it's a fact.

No it's not.

Furthermore, as someone who plays Medbay nearly exclusively, this is uncommon in the first place.

And i'm not talking about one first aid kit, i already lotted a headless marine that had two medikits. 1 for trauma/burn/splints, and another one for pills. And in practice they carry atleast tramatol and kelo, plus some trauma/burn/splints. And a health analyzer, of course.

It's a powergame problem, same thing as doctors making multiple surgeries at once, the old and good "Drag a pulse rifle and never reload" (Fixed by pulling nerf) and now "Grab some trauma/burn kits, and don't use medics"

In practice this isn't true of most marines. You're pretending this is a massive issue when it isn't. Also your proposal wouldn't stop auto-injector hording which is the bigger problem because those injectors have limited quantities and can only be refilled, not reproduced, whereas trauma/burn kits are replaceable.

Beyond this, even powergaming standards don't have nearly the capacity for medical supplies that medics do, which means that medics will always be relevant even if a Standard has enough supplies to help a marine or two other than himself, nevermind the opportunity cost of less light sources and munitions.

[Szunti]

Basic medkits are basic for sure but aren't advanced kits advanced? Treating an ugly ripped wound is not just putting a medicine soaked cloth on it as far as I know. You have to clean it, cut out the dead parts, sew it up.

And the health scanner should be mostly incomprehensible for marines. It works partly as an instant blood lab test, to me those are just a lot of numbers only doctors know what they mean and how bad it is when they are out of the normal range.

[Sarah_U.]

^ That'd be pretty nice to have actually. Give a webbing with medical tools for external injuries and first aid to medics that allows them to remove some shrapnel and fix basic wounds, while not allowing to fix internals and some other massive injuries~

[Surrealistik]

Basic medkits are basic for sure but aren't advanced kits advanced? Treating an ugly ripped wound is not just putting a medicine soaked cloth on it as far as I know. You have to clean it, cut out the dead parts, sew it up.

And the health scanner should be mostly incomprehensible for marines. It works partly as an instant blood lab test, to me those are just a lot of numbers only doctors know what they mean and how bad it is when they are out of the normal range.

Advanced trauma packs aren't called 'advanced' because of the level of expertise required to use them, but because of the contents vs basic gauze; biogel which they contain for example, seems to be an gelatinous adhesive applied to wounds that disinfects and seals them, and is basically a malleable, sterile superbandage.

[Derpislav]

Fuck off -1.

[Szunti]

Advanced trauma packs aren't called 'advanced' because of the level of expertise required to use them, but because of the contents vs basic gauze; biogel which they contain for example, seems to be an gelatinous adhesive applied to wounds that disinfects and seals them, and is basically a malleable, sterile superbandage.

My medic finds something to clean the wound with, anesthetic and a disposable steril miniscalpel in the pack. Removes dead tissues, cuts the edge of the wounds to fit together, applies bioglue then cover it with something that makes it heal faster at least. He probably does other things that I don't even know about.

[Surrealistik]

My medic finds something to clean the wound with, anesthetic and a disposable steril miniscalpel in the pack. Removes dead tissues, cuts the edge of the wounds to fit together, applies bioglue then cover it with something that makes it heal faster at least. He probably does other things that I don't even know about.

That's not what actually happens, or what the advanced trauma kit contains.

[Szunti]

That's not what actually happens, or what the advanced trauma kit contains.

And how do you know what's in it? All we know is it's "An advanced trauma kit for severe injuries." And that it has something to clean and seal wounds and has bioglue. I found nothing in the game that contradicts my vision.

Do you think that everyone can treat toxin damage because it's the exact same dylovene pills no matter the cause? My doc knows there are dozens of pills that cure some kind of poisoning and he gives the right one in the right dose that's why the patient heals.

[Surrealistik]

And how do you know what's in it? All we know is it's "An advanced trauma kit for severe injuries." And that it has something to clean and seal wounds and has bioglue. I found nothing in the game that contradicts my vision.

Do you think that everyone can treat toxin damage because it's the exact same dylovene pills no matter the cause? My doc knows there are dozens of pills that cure some kind of poisoning and he gives the right one in the right dose that's why the patient heals.

Your personal RP take on what a trauma kit does, or what's required to use it is simply not supported by its descriptions in game.

And yes, dylovene is a broad spectrum anti-toxin which anyone can administer (though a standard might not be aware of its OD threshold).

[Snypehunter007]

(I'm sick and don't want to write this, cool off.)

Back on to the main point, the reason I said plus one to make medics relevant again is because of this. If, at some point in the round, a standard marine can acquire all the hear of a medic and just do a medic's job, what's the point of a medical?

What happens when more then half of the marines suddenly do the same?

[nerocavalier]

If a standard marine obtains the gear of a medic. If.

Medics are and always have been relevant, unlike standards they have access to medical comms and people tend to stop moving when they start treating due to their uniform. They're the dedicated healers and that's what they do. They have easier access to the good stuff and doctors more often than not give only them the pills. A standard in order to be relevant as a medic has to get tramadol, kelotane, tricordrazine, quickclots and numerous adv. trauma, burn kits, and splints. Then they run into the problem of not being able to resupply as easily as medics can. There is also the fact that there isn't enough medical supplies for everyone because there's a limited supply of combat lifesaver bags. Sure, they can get the regular belt but it's worthless in practice.

If half of the marines can do the same, then either Req is on ball or someone is abusing something in order to get that much supplies. Over the last five months, I can only name one person that consistently heals themselves, and they don't share with others.

[Szunti]

Or marines can just steal the kits sent by the RO. I don't know how is it now, but not long before crates with medical supplies rarely reached the medics.

[nerocavalier]

About that, those kits are usually useless to the medics since they mainly contain stuff that medics should already have on them. Heck, they have less than what medics should already have. All things considered, them being taken by standards is the best case scenario since medics can just refill at nanomeds and move on. Worst case scenario, and the one that I find happen the most, is that they just sit there unused. Or they never get sent in the first place.

[KingKire]

Well to put my spin on things, there are very few injuries that marines receive right now that are able to JUST be treated by ointment and gauze. Bullet wounds, Limbs cut off, organ damage, Extremely acidic burns, broken bones, giant bite wounds, and deep slashes to vital parts.

Gameplay wise, gauze and ointment are very ineffective at healing anything of any note, with the threshold i think being less than 15 damage or such.
Im not completely sold on the story of medics finding it hard to find wounded marines to treat. I would reckon that a majority of the time, the wounds were either light enough to be healed by the marine on his own (tricord, advanced kit, etc), or they are of such critical damage that they require immediate medical assistance or they are dead.
Theres very little of the moderately wounded categories because your either able to help yourself out of it, or your in a downward spiral of 'gonna die'.

If we take advanced kits from marines, theres gonna be alot less time for medics to treat the critically injured patients, which are the most important ones that need the medics attention. It might be okay if there's compensation for both medics and marines to extend that treatment time. Marines might receive a holdover kit (morphine shots, mini bloodclots, etc) to extend time for the medic to do a more proper healing job ( buffed advanced kits health recovery due to the influx of more marines that need treatment). We also need to remember that sometimes (alot of times) there are no qualitfied medical personnel around. meaning, everyone everywhere are gonna do a lot more dying.