Remove the Ruling on FOBs

[Davidchan]

To be entirely truthful, ANY location on the Nostromo can make a good FoB if the marines stock and prepare for it. Even the central hallway or the Bar. Barricade the doors and windows, seal the vents and remove/rearrange the furniture to allow firing lanes as well as areas set up for the infirmary. The actual secret to making good FOBs lies in the mechanics. The marines need to funnel the aliens into a corridor with no cover. If they can jump around corners, your bullets do nothing, but if they are charging at you down a maint tunnel, you can shoot with impunity. This doesn't mean tearing down all the walls in a particular area, but if certain parts of the structure are being used as havens by the aliens should be torn down or made inaccessible to them any way possible. If a carrier can sit behind a wall and plant weeds, he's just going to pop out, soak a few shots and crawl back to his hidey hole to heal up, you've done no permanent damage and he's making you burn through your ammo.

On the side note of marines attacking: What is the rules relating to thermite? It's often used as a military breaching tool, the average marine might not know the recipe, but I feel it fair that engineers or squad leaders might know about it. Army/Marine Field manuals often have designs or recipes for things with useful combat application, I'd site Saving Private Ryan as an example with Tom Hank's character calling for the soldiers coat their socks with adhesive and stick timed explosives in them to make effective antitank bombs.

[Kreydis]

Tom Hank's character calling for the soldiers coat their socks with adhesive and stick timed explosives in them to make effective antitank bombs.

That shit was evil, but being as it is, we'll be getting C4 and that's more then necessary to breach any R-wall I believe.

[TopHatPenguin]

That shit was evil, but being as it is, we'll be getting C4 and that's more then necessary to breach any R-wall I believe.

Yes but if the xenos have a hive in either viro or xenobiology and we blow up one of the reinforced walls it will most likely cause a breach... I ddo know that ZAS is off now but still breaches fuck up peoples rounds.

[Mr.Smooooth]

What do you mean? First, Explosives were disabled, after a HUGE grief-fest, and have been re-enabled once the grief settled, for like, fucking, 6 months. I mean, we've been EXPANDING explosives, to include mines and grenades (an upcoming update). And guns DID do too much damage. The original damage for the M41A was like, 60 (It's 30 now if I remember). Combat surgery, was MADE EASIER for medics, with the addition of surgery kits. I'm not sure where your getting you grossly incorrect information, but you need to maybe pay attention to what's actually happening.

As far as the restrictions of where the FOB can be, those are pretty much, the BEST places. where else will you put one? EVA? AI upload? I gave you the places, which were the MOST LIKELY places to be of any use.


And Highwater, your not "telling it like it is", your being a dick. There's a difference between honestly, and being an asshole. Your being an asshole.

Mines and grenades haven't hit yet, and quite frankly don't count until I can hold them in my 2d spessman hands. As the only explosives on station right now are a pair of c4 charges and they're not even standard marine equipment, the point that explosives have been largely taken away stands. M41A, if it does 30 damage, certainly doesn't feel like it does, though that may be because aliens can take more punishment then humans. And, before you added surgery kits, I was that one medic who dragged a surgery crate around to do field surgery until admins bitched at me for meta, forcing me to stop. Sometime after, quite a while after to be honest, was when Surgery Kits were introduced and saving lives in the field became kosher.

Balance issues exist in every game, Sometimes they need to be rectified by developer action, sometimes not. This is one of those cases where action was not needed. Marine tactics evolved around turtling, and while the aliens have the resources already to break these turtles wide open, they don't use them and expect admins to clean up for them. No FOB is invulnerable, and if aliens used all the resources in their toolbox, maybe they could break them better.

[Davidchan]

Thermite only melts the wall it's applied to. Which is why it's often used to deal with Malf AIs since it's a precision tool, albiet one that takes time. It never breaches the floor that I'm aware of and doesn't have collateral damage to adjacent tiles, thus so long as the Marines have some awareness of what doors/walls they are melting through, they'd never cause a breach.

[razerwing]

I've never figured out how to use Thermite. I tried splashing it on a door once, and throwing a match at it. Nothing. I was sorely disappointed to say the least, hehe.

Also, I'm kind of with Mr Smooth here. The alines HAD the resources to bust a bunker very effectively. I've been on the receiving and giving end of some very good bunker-buster operations. I mean, sure, when an alien starts melting a wall, the marines build another wall or so. But there's only so much room you can back up into, and only so much metal to go around.

On the flip-side. Every location Apop has listed in the rules is the most likely place for an FOB to be built. Correctly. Engineering has often been used to the most effective degree, with a security FOB coming in at a close second. This seems to be more of a complaint about the simple loss of 'ability' to build wherever you want to, whenever you want to. Marines have been restricted, not nerfed, and nobody likes restrictions.

Personally? I don't mind. This was a decent rule. When you have upwards of thirty marines breaking off two at a time because they don't want to 'lose ground' against four or so aliens, we have a problem. Yes, I'm well aware that normal players have no idea just how many aliens there are, but if they NEVER MOVE FROM THEIR HIDEY-HOLES, HOW THE FUCK ARE THEY SUPPOSED TO FIND OUT?!? I can safely say that HAD this rule not been put into place, absolutely ZERO things would have changed. At all. We would have gotten more gear, eventually, (since there would have been no need), and it would have sat there and collected dust because how the fuck are you supposed to use assault equipment when you have no team, no cover, and no fucking motivation to get off your asses and go do something other than build walls?

[apophis775]

Go for using thermite, or anything you can cook up in chemistry. I've adjusted the few things that could be round-endingly destructive, to be less disruptive to everything.

[apophis775]

And yea, razer, something very similar to that happened the other day.

A 6 hour round, the marines at the end, outnumbering the aliens 30 to 4, REFUSING to leave their defensive super-fob. The continued the fight for another HOUR, killing no aliens, and losing no marines (aliens would hug, marines would do surgery). Eventually, a vote was done to "spice up the round", and power was disabled, despite the marines STILL having a MASSIVE advantage, they fell back, and lost a few marines, but still outnumbered the aliens, around 26 to 8, which quickly became 25 to 5, as the aliens lost LOTS in the second stage of the super-fob.

And that's the issue. Marines, will just sit in the fobs doing jack shit, and wait for the aliens to come to them.

[razerwing]

I think what the marines should view this as, is a challenge.

Show us that you guys are as creative and innovative as you say you are. I've seen the word 'Creativity' thrown around a lot in this thread.

Necessity breeds invention. FOB's appear to have been limited partly because they were too effective, and mostly because they slowed the round down alot. Show us that you guys can do more than create once. Create TACTICS and PLANS to decimate the alien numbers. LEARN from your mistakes, WORK TOGETHER, create NEW ways to really sock it to those Xenomorphic pricks.

Show us that the Colonial Marines won't stop after one idea.

[mdom]

I actually taped like thirty minutes of that 6 hour battle. I too was frustrated watching the round stagnate as the Marines refused to budge from the FOB. I like when the FOB is used for Marines to operate out of. When Marines rum missions out of the FOB it makes thematic sense. What irks me is when I see players hunkering down in there and refusing to act.

I don't like to call people out, but Xur is a frequent offender of the hunker down in engineering disease. It is not immersive or role-playing when you act out the same set of actions every round. I come to this server, and I imagine others do as well, because it can be totally unique from round to round.

[Davidchan]

I think what the marines should view this as, is a challenge.

Show us that you guys are as creative and innovative as you say you are. I've seen the word 'Creativity' thrown around a lot in this thread.

Necessity breeds invention. FOB's appear to have been limited partly because they were too effective, and mostly because they slowed the round down alot. Show us that you guys can do more than create once. Create TACTICS and PLANS to decimate the alien numbers. LEARN from your mistakes, WORK TOGETHER, create NEW ways to really sock it to those Xenomorphic pricks.

Show us that the Colonial Marines won't stop after one idea.

That's the thing, any time Marines innovate, they get screamed at. The /BEST/ way to deal with Xenobiology/Virology hives was to don space suits and breach the windows while everyone else puts pressure on the front door. And now marines get banned for putting on hardsuits or trying to go outside. Chloral was super effective at capturing aliens for RP Research, and that got abused too apparently so it's out the window. Now, after lacking proper methods to attack Alien hives without running in cannon fodder to soak up huggers, marines did the only thing they could still do and turtle up an area and wait for the hive to come to them. Using Robotics also gets a shitstorm created, even though borgs are ideal for scouting and support of Marines.

Most marines are afraid to innovate because they get chewed out or temp banned for doing anything that isn't the same old shit, exploring new options for attacking the hive is heavily discouraged and punished if it turns out to be effective (Polyacid grenades anyone?)

[razerwing]

Polyacid grenades were just terrible. I'd been on the receiving end of THOSE horrid things many, many times. You'd be nested and screaming for help, and some fucknugget would toss one of those in. Suddenly you realize that the marines are the best players on the Xeno team.

Also, the polyacid grenades had little to no effect on aliens, as far as I was aware. In much the same way that Weedkiller grenades only affect the weeds and any unfortunate human, Polyacid did jack shit to aliens. Just like smokes and flashes do now. It was a large threat to human players, and I'm sure people complained them to death.

Find a new way to do better. I'll defend an idea so long as it's good and well thought out. I may not hold a lot of sway here, but creativity is what things in general thrive on. That being said, I want to see marines get smart. I wanna see them get tactical.

[MrGabol100]

ANY Effective idea that marines come with, will be removed over time, to prevent abusing of this good ideas, as said above, space flanking, chloral hidrate and others...

Marines NEED to turtle, or they are just simply, fucked.

[Mr.Smooooth]

I think what the marines should view this as, is a challenge.

Show us that you guys are as creative and innovative as you say you are. I've seen the word 'Creativity' thrown around a lot in this thread.

Necessity breeds invention. FOB's appear to have been limited partly because they were too effective, and mostly because they slowed the round down alot. Show us that you guys can do more than create once. Create TACTICS and PLANS to decimate the alien numbers. LEARN from your mistakes, WORK TOGETHER, create NEW ways to really sock it to those Xenomorphic pricks.

Show us that the Colonial Marines won't stop after one idea.

That's some fine lip service you're paying us, but here's the thing. every single time marines get creative, the aliens complain and the marines get shouted down by admins. Admins say they like marines to be creative but their actions clearly tell us that creativity will get us banned. You can't have it both ways. Either stop banning marines for doing new things and killing those new things to keep marines on rails, or at least be straight with us and stop the creativity lip service.

[LordLoko]

We could give the engineers some beakers of thermite for breaching. Maybe 4 or 5?

[Kreydis]

We could give the engineers some beakers of thermite for breaching. Maybe 4 or 5?

Engineers get 4 C4's, shit is strong, can blow through any wall and door. no need for thermite that isn't created. Even then, most people can't use it very well.

[apophis775]

Not to mention, all those new grenades.

And no, new tactics are not always removed from marines. space-assaulting was, becuase it was breaking atmos and causing shitstorms of problems.

I did not make the chloral rule, but my understanding was that it was done due to a tremendous amount of abuse over a few weeks, which culminated in everyone being issued Hypos, and sedating the entire alien team.

[laveney]

I'm with admins on this one (I wasn't at first but I changed my mind when I saw engineering Super-FOB and everyone sitting in it). FOBs like that are stupid, moronic, idiotic, boring, dull and not creative at all. They make the round longer by hours, kill the RP element (FOB is something you operate out of, not a bunker you never leave), and cause people to just do one cycle over and over again: barricade->sit->wait for aliens->shoot from the MG->repeat ... hoorray, it's a win! Dumb shit.

What if aliens do the same thing as marines? Just build huge hive and wait there doing nothing? Two teams sitting and doing nothing would last potentially forever.

You bitch about admins banning ppl for being creative? A-FUCKIN'-HELP IT! Before you try it.

[apophis775]

We don't ban for being creative. Typically, we give a warning to not do it again, and often, not even a warning that goes into their notes.

[HighwaterOffical]

I want to point out, the last 2 pages, have essentially been what i said, but in a more "Polite" way, just pointing it out.

[apophis775]

I have to wonder if you actually read the last 2 pages, or just posted that.

[HighwaterOffical]

I think what the marines should view this as, is a challenge.

Show us that you guys are as creative and innovative as you say you are. I've seen the word 'Creativity' thrown around a lot in this thread.

Necessity breeds invention. FOB's appear to have been limited partly because they were too effective, and mostly because they slowed the round down alot. Show us that you guys can do more than create once. Create TACTICS and PLANS to decimate the alien numbers. LEARN from your mistakes, WORK TOGETHER, create NEW ways to really sock it to those Xenomorphic pricks.

Show us that the Colonial Marines won't stop after one idea.

That's the thing, any time Marines innovate, they get screamed at. The /BEST/ way to deal with Xenobiology/Virology hives was to don space suits and breach the windows while everyone else puts pressure on the front door. And now marines get banned for putting on hardsuits or trying to go outside. Chloral was super effective at capturing aliens for RP Research, and that got abused too apparently so it's out the window. Now, after lacking proper methods to attack Alien hives without running in cannon fodder to soak up huggers, marines did the only thing they could still do and turtle up an area and wait for the hive to come to them. Using Robotics also gets a shitstorm created, even though borgs are ideal for scouting and support of Marines.

Most marines are afraid to innovate because they get chewed out or temp banned for doing anything that isn't the same old shit, exploring new options for attacking the hive is heavily discouraged and punished if it turns out to be effective (Polyacid grenades anyone?)

Polyacid grenades were just terrible. I'd been on the receiving end of THOSE horrid things many, many times. You'd be nested and screaming for help, and some fucknugget would toss one of those in. Suddenly you realize that the marines are the best players on the Xeno team.

Also, the polyacid grenades had little to no effect on aliens, as far as I was aware. In much the same way that Weedkiller grenades only affect the weeds and any unfortunate human, Polyacid did jack shit to aliens. Just like smokes and flashes do now. It was a large threat to human players, and I'm sure people complained them to death.

Find a new way to do better. I'll defend an idea so long as it's good and well thought out. I may not hold a lot of sway here, but creativity is what things in general thrive on. That being said, I want to see marines get smart. I wanna see them get tactical.

ANY Effective idea that marines come with, will be removed over time, to prevent abusing of this good ideas, as said above, space flanking, chloral hidrate and others...

Marines NEED to turtle, or they are just simply, fucked.

That's some fine lip service you're paying us, but here's the thing. every single time marines get creative, the aliens complain and the marines get shouted down by admins. Admins say they like marines to be creative but their actions clearly tell us that creativity will get us banned. You can't have it both ways. Either stop banning marines for doing new things and killing those new things to keep marines on rails, or at least be straight with us and stop the creativity lip service.

Engineers get 4 C4's, shit is strong, can blow through any wall and door. no need for thermite that isn't created. Even then, most people can't use it very well.

I have to wonder if you actually read the last 2 pages, or just posted that.

You can read all that, generally the last 2 pages.

---

Mrgabol makes the most valid point.

[Mr.Smooooth]

We don't ban for being creative. Typically, we give a warning to not do it again.

Well at least yer fuckin' honest. You wonder why people get so disgruntled with the restrictions placed on us.

I'm going to leave these here, might help you learn better game design/balancing practices.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRBcjsOt0_g
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e31OSVZF77w

[MrJJJ]

Well at least yer fuckin' honest. You wonder why people get so disgruntled with the restrictions placed on us.

I'm going to leave these here, might help you learn better game design/balancing practices.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRBcjsOt0_g
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e31OSVZF77w

Did you just seriously left these for a 30-31 year old adult who had lots of coding experiences, was in military and a educator?

[Caroes]

Did you just seriously left these for a 30-31 year old adult who had lots of coding experiences, was in military and a educator?

There is always more to learn!

(i don't know what's in the videos but learning is a journey and not a destination please dont shoot me)