Reclassify 'Smartgunner' role to 'Gunner' and provide a SAW (M41AE2) alternative loadout in locker

[Fritigern]

Summary (a quick, 2-3 sentence summary): The M41AE2 Heavy Pulse Rifle is a redundant, unused weapon system that doesn't resemble its lore-backed counterpart in the slightest. With some revisions, it could find a place on the server--specifically with our current 'Smartgunners.'


Benefits (How this will benefit the server and game as a whole): In all practical sense the M41AE2 might as well not even exist in the game, given its lack of availability and its lacklustre performance on the battlefield. It fulfills none of its promises provided by the lore when it very well could. Revamping its design would see it bring much needed depth and value to the tactical decisions players make during a round.

Additionally, all marine combat roles offer a great deal of customization for its players, both in appearance and weapon loadout. The smartgunners are the exception to this rule. By providing them (and their squad leaders) with an alternative weapon system the game will be richer for it.


Details (Description of how you think this would work, the benefits, etc): The M41AE2 Heavy Pulse Rifle is described in the USCM field manual as a SAW (Squad Automatic Weapon). Its main feature is a folding bipod system to steady the weapon when fired from a fixed position, and its role in infantry combat is to provide a base of fire. Sound familiar? It shouldn't, because that's absolutely nothing like the Heavy Pulse Rifle we currently have. With a few modifications we can easily bring the M41AE2 into line with its design goals while providing squads more tactical choices.

First, we provide the Heavy Pulse Rifle with a fixed, non-removeable bipod. Second, we adjust its shooting mechanics by giving the gun a LARGE amount of bullet spread/screen shake when NOT fired with its bipod deployed, heavily nerfing its run-and-gun potential and incentivizing its use as a thoughtful, deliberate weapon system. Single shots (when deployed) will be accurate, with a 4-5 burst-fire having moderate bullet spread.

This M41AE2 Heavy Pulse Rifle will then become an alternative weapon (using the specialist coin and vendor system) for our 'Gunner' (Formerly Smartgunner) marines, giving them the choice of a providing their squad with a more immobile, defensive weapon, or by sticking with the mobile assault weapon that we currently have with our Smartguns.

The M41AE2 will, of course, not have IFF features, and will be ID locked to prevent other marines from picking them up on the battlefield and using them. Standard 10mm ammo will be used, though its magazine size can be adjusted for gameplay purposes. 99 round magazines are standard now, but perhaps dropping that down to a more Xeno-friendly 60 rounds would be appropriate.


Implementation (Optional, if you have an idea how to implement it): Coding wise, nothing proposed here is outside the realm of possibility, and everything could be implemented with an afternoon's worth of work.

The bipod code already exists and is functional, all that is required is standardizing it with with M41AE2, editing its firing/damage properties, and then adjusting the smartgunner job and vendor system to introduce the gun to the game.

[MrJJJ]

The HPR pales in comprassion to a smartgun, i would never choose it over a smartgun, ever

[Fritigern]

The HPR pales in comprassion to a smartgun, i would never choose it over a smartgun, ever

That's where that whole personal preference thing comes into play, doesn't it? o7

[Steelpoint]

While I would like to see the HRP be more common but I think comparing the HRP to the Smartgun is unfair.

The HRP is more of a slightly upgraded M41A that serves more as a suppressive weapon. The Smartgun is in its own league.

[MrJJJ]

That's where that whole personal preference thing comes into play, doesn't it? o7

Please tell me what kind of sane person would choose a

Just a bigger magazine rifle with slightly more damage and fewer attachment spots

Instead of a

A machine gun of death with a power pack that holds insane amount of ammo, has insane accuracy even with barrel charger on it, has to have its own special armor to even be used so you can't have baldies steal it, automatically comes with a inbuilt mag harness and it has a inbuilt IFF THAT ALLOWS YOUR SHOTS TO GO THROUGH PEOPLE.

I know you want that HPR to have some reason to be used, but this is just...a bad way.

[Steven Sneider]

That's where that whole personal preference thing comes into play, doesn't it? o7

Not preference, its a fact that SG is better.

[misto]

the smartgunners are a great addition to a squad precisely because of their ability to fire thru allies safely, i really do not see the draw of an alternative gun that lacks that ability nor its utility to a squad.

ideally i would like items such as the hpr and others currently in the dumb wy gambling crate to be just straight-up buyable and thus PFCs could be transferred into such a "heavy gunner" role by their SL requesting one, handing it to them with instruction

[Swagile]

Unless your allowing the SG to get a battle rifle as one of their alternative choices, no sane person will pick HPR. SG is the THIRD best gun in the ENTIRE GAME, outside of admin events.

[Fritigern]

While I would like to see the HRP be more common but I think comparing the HRP to the Smartgun is unfair.

The HRP is more of a slightly upgraded M41A that serves more as a suppressive weapon. The Smartgun is in its own league.

The smartgun does equivalent damage to an SMG and its accuracy and damage dropoff is massive. Its only selling point is its IFF feature making it noob and marine-stack friendly.

The repeated 'SMARTGUN SO MUCH BETTER' comments kind of make me laugh because I think it highlights just how unfamiliar people actually are with what the weapon does, and shows a lack of awareness of its capabilities.

[nerocavalier]

The smartgun does equivalent damage to an SMG and its accuracy and damage dropoff is massive. Its only selling point is its IFF feature making it noob and marine-stack friendly.

Strongly disagree. The smartgun has better accuracy than a HPR and while its damage is lower, it certainly has a higher fire rate.

What does the HPR have that's better than a smartgun? Damage? More attachments friendly?

Let's look at the things you suggested.

First, we provide the Heavy Pulse Rifle with a fixed, non-removeable bipod. Second, we adjust its shooting mechanics by giving the gun a LARGE amount of bullet spread/screen shake when NOT fired with its bipod deployed, heavily nerfing its run-and-gun potential and incentivizing its use as a thoughtful, deliberate weapon system. Single shots (when deployed) will be accurate, with a 4-5 burst-fire having moderate bullet spread.

It's better served as a static defence, and because of the bipod, the player also requires Engineers to setup tables/racks/etc for them or to find a position in order to do so. Smartgun doesn't require this and it can serve the same purpose while being more mobile and having IFF to prevent any FF from brave marines getting hit.

This doesn't take into account that a smartgun emplacement is already an option for engineers and that their sentries are probably going to be more useful than a marine that has to stand there. You're very dismissive of the IFF when it is a major deal. The way I see you suggest HPR is that they end up like snipers, they HAVE to be in front or flanking or else the FF will be abysmal or they'll be in the back, unable to shoot until everyone in front of them is dead.

Smartgun doesn't have this problem.

[MrJJJ]

The smartgun does equivalent damage to an SMG and its accuracy and damage dropoff is massive. Its only selling point is its IFF feature making it noob and marine-stack friendly.

The repeated 'SMARTGUN SO MUCH BETTER' comments kind of make me laugh because I think it highlights just how unfamiliar people actually are with what the weapon does, and shows a lack of awareness of its capabilities.

People attach a barrel charger for a reason, and there is also a neat little trick that makes it incredibly powerful.

Ironic.

[Fritigern]

Strongly disagree. The smartgun has better accuracy than a HPR and while its damage is lower, it certainly has a higher fire rate.

What does the HPR have that's better than a smartgun? Damage? More attachments friendly?

Let's look at the things you suggested.

It's better served as a static defence, and because of the bipod, the player also requires Engineers to setup tables/racks/etc for them or to find a position in order to do so. Smartgun doesn't require this and it can serve the same purpose while being more mobile and having IFF to prevent any FF from brave marines getting hit.

This doesn't take into account that a smartgun emplacement is already an option for engineers and that their sentries are probably going to be more useful than a marine that has to stand there. You're very dismissive of the IFF when it is a major deal. The way I see you suggest HPR is that they end up like snipers, they HAVE to be in front or flanking or else the FF will be abysmal or they'll be in the back, unable to shoot until everyone in front of them is dead.

Smartgun doesn't have this problem.

I really suspect people haven't actually read the entire breadth of my post because I make it pretty clear that I am not talking about transporting the HPR wholesale into the role of SAW. It very clearly needs adjustments made to its damage/accuracy and other stats to make it more viable as a SAW, as its described in the lore.

Also, the Smartgun is EXTREMELY inaccurate at distances past 4 tiles. At the edge of the screen it is one of the MOST inaccurate weapons currently in the game. I would provide numbers to back that up but that'd likely get me banned, but anyone who has used it for any length of time would know that.

So yes, it is VERY GOOD at supporting other marines at CLOSE RANGE. Fantastic. But you know what? 2 of every 4 squads are REGULARLY ordered to build and defend FOBs and smartgunners are relegated to standing behind barricades being all around useless. What they offer (IFF and close range damage) are completely useless because you'll be shooting at targets at max range, and there is almost never going to be any friendlies in your way to block your shots. Thus the ALTERNATIVE would be a HPR turned SAW. Yes, you are limited in your ability to engage targets based on barricades and tables. But guess which places have buttloads of that kind of stuff? FOBs.

So what DOES this hypothetically improved HPR provide that a smartgun doesn't? Range and damage, the two things the Smartgun lack. It's like.. y'know, what's the word? A choice? HMMMMM.

There are MANY situations where marine squads are NOT mobile and a fixed weapon becomes preferable. But there are also situations where a squad, while moving, suddenly becomes entrenched and a fixed weapon would be a massive benefit to defend a hallway or another chokepoint.

The M56 is not a mobile weapon, requiring a marine to drag and deploy it with tools. A SAW can be quickly brought to bear where sustained, static firepower is needed.

And, again I am not talking about a REPLACEMENT for the Smartgun. It's kind of weird how defensive people are getting over this to the point of being willfully ignorant of the weapons shortcomings.

[Fritigern]

People attach a barrel charger for a reason, and there is also a neat little trick that makes it incredibly powerful.

Ironic.

Yes, you now have a slow firing, hard-hitting SMG with horrible accuracy.

Ironic.

[misto]

if the smartgun underwhelms you so badly, why not argue for buffs to it rather than access to a glorified m41

[Steven Sneider]

we aren't going on defensive, its just that the suggestion is bad and a waste of time since no one would chose the HPR on the long run.

[MrJJJ]

Yes, you now have a slow firing, hard-hitting SMG with horrible accuracy.

Ironic.

Have you actually ever fired it? there is basically no delay, even with a barrel charger, and it does nearly as damage as a rifle, its accuracy still being preety good, and with a trick that a few people found out, it can do even more damage that even young crushers can fear.

I am starting to think you are literally coming up with things as you go along and have never wielded a smartgun in this game ever.

[Recounted]

Do like the choice to have a different preferance when im choosing a loadout +1

[Karmac]

>has the damage of an SMG

Sorry I just realised you have no idea what you're on about and now I can't take you seriously.

[Fritigern]

>has the damage of an SMG

Sorry I just realised you have no idea what you're on about and now I can't take you seriously.

That's okay, I just realized you don't actually know anything about the game you're 'moderating' so your uninformed opinion doesn't really matter.

[Karmac]

got me right in the feels

[Imperator_Titan]

That's okay, I just realized you don't actually know anything about the game you're 'moderating' so your uninformed opinion doesn't really matter.

>uninformed opinion
>"smartgun does SMG damage"





also completely unrelated topic but um

egrilles got me right in the feels

:^)

[Butterrobber202]

what, no. No. Why No.

[apophis775]

Nope.

The only reason the Smartgunner exists, is because people typically picked it as Spec and claimed the other options were "useless".

So, after much consideration and a minor rework, we made it it's own role.

Nothing else with it is getting changed outside balances in the near future.