Fuck This Rule

[RehabBaron]

Summary (a quick, 2-3 sentence summary): Basically there's this stupid fucking "If someone uses lethal force on you, and you retaliate back with lethal force, you forfeit admin assistance." Marines don't fucking carry non-lethal weapons, so basically this is a death sentence if you are attacked by a marine over a petty argument and you start shooting each other.

Benefits (How this will benefit the server and game as a whole): Borderline grief wouldn't cause any damage anymore.

Details (Description of how you think this would work, the benefits, etc): Recently, I was the squad SL, some fuck point blanks someone, I go in, stun him with my baton a few times as punishment. I walk away, and then he tries to start a fight by pushing me. So I tase him, and then he shoots me to near death, and my stun weapons, out of charge, could do nothing, I had no restraints, no MPs around, so my only option is to beat him to death for attempted murder, this forfeited me from admin assistance to five minutes later I die.

Implementation (Optional, if you have an idea how to implement it): REMOVE. THiS. STUPID. FUCKING. RULE.

[Feweh]

You'll be revived and healed if you're killed by someone griefing you with weapons.. That's what people don't understand.

[RehabBaron]

Yeah but in this situation it wasn't griefing because I retaliated. Apparently I was supposed to just sit there and die witch is incredibly RP breaking.

[Steelpoint]

Last night there was a marine that shot up the meeting room and heavily wounded a lot of marines, myself included.

While the guy was shot down and banned, unfortunately there were no admins on for the entire two hour rounds, only moderators. Meaning all the injured marines were left injured, myself included.

I personally spent the better part of a hour in medbay trying to get my multiple fractures fixed and trying to convince the medics to fix my eye's after I was blinded (for some reason scanners don't pick up that your blind). Even then I was still stuck with a fracture that got me killed later on.

[apophis775]

You are expected to Ahelp it, because if he's griefing you, he's griefing others.

[Rahlzel]

This rule is in place to allow marines to handle their own problems, but still protects you from griefers.

It used to be that Admins handled every single display of force - lethal or non-lethal, such as fist fights. This is obviously not optimum use of an Admin's time. We leave most things to players deciding how to react and fight themselves and leave it to the MPs and Commander to decide who was at fault. The latter has been infinitely better. It more often than not has been preventing lethal force if a player knows that they're on their own should they miss or otherwise not succeed.

It was your choice to use lethal force against that marine, and doing so left you to decide your own fate. Whatever happens, happens. That's the risk you have to take. If that player was griefing you, and you had just stood there and gotten killed, we'd have been happy to revive you.

[RehabBaron]

No, he was only griefing me. He killbaited me, and the admins could do nothing about it because I used lethal force to try to save myself, as I had no stun weapons or restraints. Jesus. And it kills so much RP to just not do anything, and I was not the master of my own fate, he was, he oppened fire on me for no reason, and when I retaliated, now I can't be healed, because of the stupid medics can't do surgery rule.

[Rahlzel]

and I was not the master of my own fate, he was

And yet, you live and he doesn't.

[RehabBaron]

And yet, you expect the person who tried to killbait me to be more robust than me. So we're supposed to just each kill each other, right? No one can come out on top? I can win, but still be griefed you know. And for the record, I didn't survive, I died to those wounds.

[Rahlzel]

Well, you fought bravely. And you did what I probably would've done, too.

It's not a perfect system, but it's a lot better than what we had. Now you know to take some handcuffs with you just in case.

[RehabBaron]

Hmm, should I take 30 more bullets, or a pair of handcuffs just in case I'm attacked by a griefer.

[Rahlzel]

If you're attacked by a griefer and there's an Admin online, you get healed to 100%, assuming you don't fight back. Speaking of which, the rule also helps when digging through logs, as there's usually no question about who griefed or who is at fault when it's only one-sided attacks.

[RehabBaron]

Rahlzel, I thought we were trying to promote RP? What would you do if you were being shot at by a scrub and you had a gun? You shoot back. That's how AARRRR PEEEE works.

[Feweh]

This does promote RP, it allows you to decide on how you want to handle the situation.

You have a choice, fight the player and perhaps make a event out of the situation. Or you can sit there and report him for randomly acting you.

This also allows fist-fights and casual fighting among players... so if it starts out RP and they beat each other and someone dies... he can't run off to a Admin and complain when the other player thought it was a role-play situation.

[UnknownMurder]

Pretty simple. Don't retaliate... A ban is a better punishment than having to remove someone from the round or yourself from the round. It is really a pain in an ass for us to dig through logs. I know what you're trying to go with. However, think about it clearly. Their actions can land them a perma ban. HOWEVER, I know you were in the right, I wish there was something I could have done about it.

So. Which is a better consequences for you to pick?
A. Retaliating back at the griefer with a 50-50 chance of winning or being removed from the round.
B. A ban lasting up to about 12 hour to perma ban and a heal for the victim.

Anyways, I know that feeling. Losing to a player then coming to cry to their superiors. Everyone's done it. Gather around, I'll tell you my life story even though it's not so related.

I place a bet on an old game I used to love. I lost to my father in chess. I cried to my mother. She doesn't do anything about it because I'm the one who took the challenge. Caspice?

[apophis775]

We did this, because if someone is griefing, we need people to REPORT IT so they get removed.

Hence, if you engage and take care of it yourself, it's not a "griefing" incident.

95% of the time, we'll still deal with it, but it's a waste of our time to sift through 40 logs of 2 people shooting back and fourth and trying to figure out who started it. It's a BILLION times better all around, if you just REPORT THE GRIEFER.

If we see 2 marines shooting back and fourth with no griefing report, it's basically an IC problem (unless they guy has been griefing his way around, and peeps will get healed).

[WyattH]

I always do StaffWho before I sit back and do nothing, I've been on late nights before with no admin and 3 people get killed by griefers as the spawn into the round. If there aren't admins on you must fight for your life and kill anyone who's griffin on you, just be more robust than them since you have no other choice honestly. Even IF an admin digs through the incredible amount of logs and bans the griefer later that won't return or heal everyone that got screwed up then.

tl;dr version if no admins are on take it into your own hands, if admins are on ahelp it asap

[UnknownMurder]

Pretty simple. Don't retaliate... A ban is a better punishment than having to remove someone from the round or yourself from the round...

So. Which is a better consequences for you to pick?
A. Retaliating back at the griefer with a 50-50 chance of winning or being removed from the round.
B. A ban lasting up to about 12 hour to perma ban and a heal for the victim.

[Samual Johnson]

Id say -1.

If you are being griefed and there's staff online you should ahelp it, all that retaliating in those circumstances does is make it harder for the admins to investigate.

[ChickenShizNit8]

This is a lie...

I've had things like this happen and never get healed

:/

[MrGabol100]

A REPORTED shooting to death case, independently of party, should be looked upon REGARDLESS if you fought back or not.

Because if you fight back, and it was RP'd correctly, then no one should report it, and if done admins should use a thing called common sense, to decide if someone was actually using excessive force.

If it happens out of nowhere, and you fight back, then you shall report that it was grief, and you SHOULDN'T BE disallowed admin assistance, because you RP'd correctly the situation.

[apophis775]

By "disallowed admin assistance" we mean "You won't be healed".

Because if someone shoots at you, and you shoot back. Your CONSENTING to the combat, and waiving your right for healing. We still investigate EVERY incident of intentional marine on marine fighting. The difference, is if the loser/winner gets healed. Because if it was 2 people fighting each other, neither gets a heal. If it was grief, the griefer is banned and everyone gets heals.

[apophis775]

Denied. this was fixed with the rule update.