Suggestion: Distrupt Hivemind communication on Queen death

[Lostmixup]

I disagree. Queens don't die because they are not sufficiently protected, 90% of the time they die because they do something stupid. Reasonable efforts are already made to protect the queen, but there's no sense in good T3 xenos throwing their lives away when the hive can generate another one.

Harsher punishments when the queen dies will just lead to even more salt when xenos get stuck with a bad queen.

What will probably happen is that marines will meta-rush the hive after the queen dies because they'll OOC know that xenos can't communicate while salty xenos ahelp about a bad queen for a jobban.

On that note, you can also argue that every time a xeno rushes it's for OOC meta reasons. Honestly, I think harsher punishments for losing a queen is a good thing. It'll promote smarter play by the queen and the aliens surrounding her and will also be much more of a victory for marines when she goes down.

[Wickedtemp]

Will it really promote smarter play?

Or will it only punish mistakes in an even harsher manner, discouraging the first-time Queen from ever giving that a shot again because their death meant the end of the round?

Being the Queen is already a daunting job, you're in charge of giving orders, making the hive, jelly, eggs, and depending on the circumstances leading an assault and getting that Screech just right. Dying is already bad enough, no jelly/eggs for any new larvae, and the Queen's death normally means the marines are fighting hard. The punishment for the Queen's death was increased with that timer.

Now people wish to increase it further. I understand it might fit lore-wise, but Jesus Christ, I think being a succesfull Queen is hard as it is. Do you guys not want any new players trying to be the Queen because they're too worried about fucking it up for everyone? Especially now where there's multiple ways in which ONE mistake can cost the Xeno's the round?

[Lostmixup]

Will it really promote smarter play?

Or will it only punish mistakes in an even harsher manner, discouraging the first-time Queen from ever giving that a shot again because their death meant the end of the round?

The death doesn't necessarily mean the end of the round. Queens are usually replaced quickly. This will just be a chance for marines to retreat or to push even harder. It'll discourage queens from being on the front lines as well.

Anyone can become queen. If you want to take up the role, you should already be familiar with how xeno's play and such. It's the same with commander, we heavily discourage a first time player to play commander because it generally leads to the round ending with marines exploding or something. We won't stop a new player from becoming the queen/commander, but chances are that the round won't end well for whichever faction has a newbie commander. Honestly, I think this will discourage players without experience from jumping into the role.

[Toroic]

The death doesn't necessarily mean the end of the round. Queens are usually replaced quickly. This will just be a chance for marines to retreat or to push even harder. It'll discourage queens from being on the front lines as well.

Anyone can become queen. If you want to take up the role, you should already be familiar with how xeno's play and such. It's the same with commander, we heavily discourage a first time player to play commander because it generally leads to the round ending with marines exploding or something. We won't stop a new player from becoming the queen/commander, but chances are that the round won't end well for whichever faction has a newbie commander. Honestly, I think this will discourage players without experience from jumping into the role.

You can't draw comparisons between queen and marine commanders though.

For one thing, the commander doesn't need to have micro skill, just macro skill. No one expects the marine commander to play a significant role in the fighting for their team to win. A queen is incredibly powerful offensively and defensively, and on the halloween map I pretty much stopped a marine push with 3-4 well timed screams.

For another, when a queen dies only drones and larvae can evolve into a queen, the current living players can't become queen unless they chose to stay as a drone in the event of a queen's death.

So instead of a player who is currently doing well taking over command, a xeno who recently died does, or a player who just joined.

Xenos also can't eject a queen who is currently doing poorly, and I've heard of queens witholding jelly deliberately.

I don't see a reason to make xenos punished even more for having a shit queen (a role that is demanding in and out of combat, requiring an understanding of hide build strategy and social skills to be successful) without anything to compensate.

[Lostmixup]

I was drawing the comparison that a shitty commander can cause a shitty end for marines, like when a shitty queen causes a shitty end for the xeno's. I wasn't saying that they require the same skills, I was saying that a shit one in either position usually leads to said side losing.

This also does not have to be a permanent thing either. As stated by the original suggestion, it could be a timed thing that only last 2-5 minutes, meaning there doesn't even have to be a queen replacement yet. I think this change will bring a lot more positives than negatives.

You're punished a bit harder if your queen dies; however, it'll probably keep queens off the front lines in the long run anyway which they really shouldn't be in anyway because they're the queen of the hive (I personally think that the leader of a giant hivemind shouldn't be on the front lines ever, I mean it's the core of your hivemind, why risk it) which means less queen deaths in the long run. It'll make players who are inexperienced think twice before hoping into the role, meaning less inexperienced bad queens. It's also not like you don't have your own skills as an alien when the queen goes down either, you can still fight like normal and take down humans as per normal, and you can still communicate, just not at range for a bit.

From the marine's side it'll give the marine an actual chance to take out the hive, save their guys, or whatever else in a push rather than just slowly decreasing their numbers through defense, and it'll give the marines a better chance to retreat if they need to if the queen happens to be killed while defending or attacking. It'll also give marines some major satisfaction knowing they just took out a important part of the aliens.

This change is more geared towards the marines, yes; however, it'll give marines a clear objective in their minds which may convince marines to push more which will lead to faster, more interesting rounds for everyone gameplay wise.

[Dyne]

Strongly disagree. Only the queen can roar, and she forms the alien leadership, and only she can use the consoles.
Queen roars are devastating in the right hands, even with plenty of eggs and jelly the loss of a queen really hurts.

It hurts, but you dont feel too hurt unless you are out of eggs/drones.
Ideally if devs get their claws on this suggestion it should go in pair with "louder higher castes" to distribute leadership roles a bit.

[Dyne]

Or will it only punish mistakes in an even harsher manner, discouraging the first-time Queen from ever giving that a shot again because their death meant the end of the round?

I am kinda missing the point.
How will Queen's death end the round for aliens if the proposal is taken into code?

[sicktrigger]

one thing to consider is round-start when there's no queen and the larva have to coordinate to make sure that one of them does in fact go queen. They'll need to spawn near each other, or have a sort of grace-period at the beginning of a round.

Otherwise I think this is a good idea that should be implemented if any devs actually read this subforum anymore

[Dyne]

I thought that the "distortion" should occur on Queens death, not initial absence, no need to complicate early xenos start.

[apophis775]

i feel like, this would be super abused by players who wanted to fuck the game...

[Dyne]

i feel like, this would be super abused by players who wanted to fuck the game...

...by killing the Queen and distrupting hive comms for five minutes?

[apophis775]

By having queens suicide.

[Dyne]

So you expect a Queen player to grief/suicide for five minutes of disruption?
Just ban such Queens.

In the last five months I only saw one Queen suicide on purpose.

[apophis775]

I suppose we could look into this.

[Toroic]

i feel like, this would be super abused by players who wanted to fuck the game...

The more likely outcome is that rambo queens ruin the whole match because marines will know when a bad queen dies that the aliens are even more vulnerable and won't be able to coordinate a defense.

Anyone who is pretending this is anything but a straight nerf to the xeno team is misguided, and if xenos are too strong I think there are better ways to curb their power.

[Dyne]

Its a way to limit Queen ramboism, as Queens shouldnt rambo, yes.

[Toroic]

Its a way to limit Queen ramboism, as Queens shouldnt rambo, yes.

This won't limit queen ramboism, because good queens already don't rambo, and bad queens don't care.

All it does is punish the teams stuck with the bad queen more.

[Wickedtemp]

one thing to consider is round-start when there's no queen and the larva have to coordinate to make sure that one of them does in fact go queen. They'll need to spawn near each other, or have a sort of grace-period at the beginning of a round.

Otherwise I think this is a good idea that should be implemented if any devs actually read this subforum anymore

No, they really don't do that too often. Why? Because they spawn in different areas in the caves. And there's no way to actually find the other larvae because there's no tracker or anything for any other Xeno other than the Queen.

What ends up happening is that one of the larvae becomes the Queen, and then the others become their chosen xeno caste, THEN they meet up with the Queen.

Seriously, this mechanic, if implemented, could really lead to some serious meta shenanigans... I can already picture one marine saying "Hey... I bet they can communicate like we do with headsets, only in their minds. I bet that big one has something to do with it, and since it's dead, they can't talk! Let's attack and kill them while they're confused!"

Don't deny that this won't happen at least five times. And if it isn't said ICly, it's still automatic OOC knowledge that the marines WILL use to their benefit.

[Lostmixup]

By having queens suicide.

Could just, you know, not make it do it when they suicide.

[Arachnidnexus]

Well, the full five minutes would be too much imo which is why I'd favor a short period (~30 seconds to a minute) of complete communication loss then gradual restoration of hivemind so that the hive can agree on new queen, overall plans, etc.

[Lostmixup]

Well, the full five minutes would be too much imo which is why I'd favor a short period (~30 seconds to a minute) of complete communication loss then gradual restoration of hivemind so that the hive can agree on new queen, overall plans, etc.

A minute is waaaay to short for anything to actually get done in byond, it's gotta be like 2-4 at least.

[Wickedtemp]

A minute is waaaay to short for anything to actually get done in byond, it's gotta be like 2-4 at least.

So, the only argument I see (aside from fitting the lore, which is meaningless because we don't need to follow the lore on EVERYTHING) is that "It'll promote good xeno queens!"

Except it won't, it'll just punish stupid decisions more. There's a difference. The people that do stupid shit while in important positions won't care about the punishments, because they're "just here for the lulz". They don't care if their bad decision ends up costing the Xenos (or Marines in the case of CO/Command) the round. The people that do stupid shit will continue to do stupid shit.

However, the players that are new to playing as the Queen will now have yet ANOTHER horrible outcome in the case they make a mistake. Not only do they have the Hive relying on them, not only will they have to make a good Hive layout and be able to use the Screech correctly, give good orders, know when to attack and when to retreat, eggs, jelly, and more. Now, when they die, they get rid of the only means of long-range communication the Xenos have. Being the Queen is daunting enough as it is, and now you want to add yet another reason for other players to avoid the role? And for no legitimate reason? Do you think the Xenos need a nerf just after the Marines got a massive damage buff, enough to kill a T3

No, this isn't comparable to when Comms go down for the Marines. There are intercoms, and I'm sure there are ship/station-bounced radios as well. There are even radios at the Weyland compound, the marines have viable alternatives. The xenos, on the other hand, have NO alternative other than being in the same location.

[apophis775]

At the moment by the way, "comms going down for marines" should be NEAR IMPOSSIBLE if the marines are at all competent, unless griefed or they ship is getting lost (or power is lost).

[Dyne]

A minute is waaaay to short for anything to actually get done in byond, it's gotta be like 2-4 at least.

I'd prefer it be more or less consistent with the "new Queen" cooldown.
Also to be perfectly clear- I'm not proposing full comms downtime, just garbled communications.

[RoswellRay]

i feel like, this would be super abused by players who wanted to fuck the game...

So can EVERYTHING ELSE. There are already a million and one things I or anyone else with a decent understanding of 2d space can do to ruin the entire round.