Squad Medics being able to heal fractures

[Evilkyle24]

Fucks sake people I already supported this as well.

YOU CANT FUCKING SPLINT HANDS OR FEET!!!

It only works on arms or legs.

And just fucking think about that logically for a second, a splint holds the two broken pieces of the bone together, how the fuck is that going to work on your hands and feet and still allow movement!?

[Surrealistik]

Space age tight albeit elastic supporting wrist/footbrace.

There's enough verisimilitude to make a go of this; there are even less logical things that are already in the game.

The minor suspension of disbelief it might require is worth the positive impact it would have on the gameplay.

[cylian]

Everyone knows the reason is because it makes life easier for the marines.

It's not just a matter of "easy". It's the harsh reality that the current system of shipping people in bundles to the Sulaco where there are only a handful of doctors (most of which are incompetent and can't do proper surgery) is not logistically viable due to waiting times exploding every round to be over 30+ minutes and I think we can all agree that evacuating, sitting on a dropship back home and then waiting half an hour to get a single bone in your hand fixed is NOT FUN. Even I suffer emotional damage every time I fix one patient in surgery just to have 25 other new guys waiting for help since the last time I came out of the room. And I'm a quick f*cking surgeon.

I'd really like the OP name to be changed to "Squad Medics being able to heal limb fractures" or at the very least, splint hands.

[Derpislav]

When hand fractures happen so often you make sure to always have a one-handed weapon on you and you make your right hand robotic just because of that, you know something's not right.

[Surrealistik]

It's not just a matter of "easy". It's the harsh reality that the current system of shipping people in bundles to the Sulaco where there are only a handful of doctors (most of which are incompetent and can't do proper surgery) is not logistically viable due to waiting times exploding every round to be over 30+ minutes and I think we can all agree that evacuating, sitting on a dropship back home and then waiting half an hour to get a single bone in your hand fixed is NOT FUN. Even I suffer emotional damage every time I fix one patient in surgery just to have 25 other new guys waiting for help since the last time I came out of the room. And I'm a quick f*cking surgeon.

I'd really like the OP name to be changed to "Squad Medics being able to heal limb fractures" or at the very least, splint hands.

As in the powers that be hate and probably won't implement it because it makes life easier for marines since they don't appreciate that, no matter how much sense it makes; we're totally on the same side here.

[Evilkyle24]

Ignore him, Surrealisk is basically a conspiracy theorist with the balance changes.

[Mycroft Macarthur]

+1

lets throw out all the roleplay shit for a second and get down to the nitty gritty of the matter, on the one hand i can see both viewpoints because i've played medical doctor pretty extensively in pre-alpha and now that im back its the only role i really enjoy anymore due to how combat in this game tends to be, so heres how i view things.

on the one hand i was told that medics arent allowed to perform surgery because it raises the importance of the sulaco medteam who often have nothing to do, its impossibly aggravating that we have basically nothing to do the entire round till injured start coming in only for some medic to decide to do your job FOR you, i mean this is your THING, this is the ONE thing you have to do in the game and you should be good at it, if you are there to take care of the wounded the medics should go back to attending to their friends in the field and if medics can perform surgeries in the field the need for YOU will plummet, this means people will never have to return to the sulaco except to get new helmets and ammo, which they wouldn't need to do anyways if the cargo team drops fresh supplies in.

on the other hand, lets be serious here in all honesty.

the vast majority of sulaco doctors are complete shit.

alot of people will flat out refuse to check wiki's, work with each other or understand any form of triage procedure, back when america's army came out their medic training course ingame was actually pretty good but basically boiled down to "MOST WOUNDED GUYS FIRST, LEAST WOUNDED GUYS LAST" and yet i will witness complete idiots performing surgery on a CORPSE when there is a LINE of dudes in need of eye surgery, bone surgery or who may be bleeding out right there in the FUCKING medbay, refusing to use anesthetic was fine pre-alpha because it was a mindless roleplay convenience but now it has actual code necessity, if you do not use anesthetic your chance of a successful surgery will plummet and the odds of your patient dying on the table jumps WAY THE FUCK UP and since you are taking longer to get the patient out the door the line of people in NEED of you is growing longer and longer and longer till they just start logging out, even when the doctors ARENT shit your server has modified some of the procedures to the point where they differ completely from the wiki, according to the wiki slapping cybernetics onto a guy is just a matter of sawing off the old nub and slapping the robot bits on but here theres an entire surgical process that isn't listed ANYWHERE that you have to learn through trial and error, if you cant guess the steps fast enough or if you have no one who can clue you in the patient will DIE ON YOUR FUCKING TABLE!

this isn't counting the vast hordes of people who go SSD, get killed by dumbass MP's or kill themselves by playing around with something they werent supposed to be, ultimately at the end of the day if the doctors cannot or will not do their jobs, SOMEBODY has to because if the wounded are still coming in, due to the way things are in CM if you come back wounded at ALL then your injury is something that will render you INCAPABLE OF PLAYING THE GAME until someone can perform surgery on you, more often then not in the mid game at least half the marine force who is still active will be unable to fight the aliens because the medical team is NOT DOING THEIR JOBS, the admins will scream we cant call for shuttles or use the nuke because the numbers say more marines are alive then aliens but they NEVER look at the fact that of those marines maybe half are combat capable of which maybe one or two actually know what the fuck they are doing whereas the aliens have NEVER gotten any form of permanent injuries whatsoever, if they dont die outright they will come back from ANY firefight in brand new condition complete with that new car smell.

however there may in fact BE people onboard the sulaco who are able AND willing to perform surgery on the needy when the medical doctors are neither, people who may also happen to be in the right place and the right time to do the job that needs to be done in the right way, only for them to get bitched at by an admin even though they are the only one there who can and WILL help people who need help.

i get the idea behind wanting to emphasize the roleplay thing, but this is still a game and we need to put gameplay first, saying only doctors should be performing surgery is just hurtful to EVERYONE if the doctors cannot or will not do their jobs.

[Surrealistik]

Ignore him, Surrealisk is basically a conspiracy theorist with the balance changes.

It's not a conspiracy theory when changes with respect to balance (or lackthereof) at the very least strongly insinuate exactly what I'm saying.

Sci got nerfed into the ground, explosives got nerfed, marines have received little in the way of buffs or quality of life changes (despite a context/backdrop of well received requests) in the meanwhile even as aliens have gotten boon after boon they never asked for (and a couple they did!), including the blatantly OP crusher despite most marine wins coming from shuttle camping and not its actual strengths or alien weakness.

[Evilkyle24]

>Blatantly OP Crusher

Dude, we killed two in one round with no difficulty. One of us got a broken skull. Once they charge into the group, they have to change direction or stop, which STUNS them and they have no armor from the back. Get Fucking Gud.

SCI was forbidden from making poly acid nades because the aliens have a weakness to burn damage, meaning that even a single second single polyacid nade would INSTANTLY KILL THEM.

[Surrealistik]

Sci lost the ability to construct turrets, exos other than the Ripley, weapons, exo weapons, flashbangs were made useless because reasons (sci can make these so it is a nerf to sci), the explosives they made got nerfed, etc... They also are forbidden to use chemical warfare at _all_ nevermind polyacid.

And the fact that you anecdotally killed two doesn't mean anything; massed they're blatantly OP, especially when backed by a couple of spitter caste aliens, and now Team Alien is trying to get the powers that be to ban/limit Ripleys (and given their track record they'll likely be successful) so that the only kinda sorta counter the marines have won't work.

In short, everything I've said above is pretty much true, and it's frustrating as fuck.

[Evilkyle24]

The turrets were only stun turrets I believe.
Giving the marines a Gygax would be complete overkill.
Flashbags were made useless because otherwise marines would ALLAH ACKBAR with them and cause no detrimental effects to themselves while their teammates rush into the area and gun down stunned aliens.
Chloral Smoke is about as deadly as Poly Smoke.

STOP dismissing other people's experience as Anecdotes. That just pisses me off because you're saying "I see your example of when you can kill them, and completely dismiss it." You're basically saying "Ah yes, the Reapers. We have dismissed that claim."

The point is you can defeat a crusher if you're smart. I told you their weakness. Massed they're really strong? Yeah, no shit, they're supposed to be. You fucked around long enough for the entire fucking hive to evolve to T3.

[Surrealistik]

Anecdotes are dismissable because they're anecdotes and not systemic or representative of overall balance. Again, killing two (2) Crushers over the course of an entire round means exactly jack and shit when the context in which they're overpowered and nearly unstoppable is a massed horde; something that comes up consistently. No one is arguing they can't be killed; that they can be killed is irrelevant; their weaknesses are obvious and require no special insight to discern. What is relevant is how virtually unstoppable they are outside of certain niche responses Team Alien now wants to see banned because apparently marines aren't allowed to outthink them or adapt after they've gotten their death horde amassed.

No, research could make lethal turrets; they no longer can.

As for exos, I'm not even talking about the combat models; I'm talking about Oddys, and the improvised laser welders you could attach to Ripleys so they weren't complete shit outside of niche defensive circumstances.

As for flashbangs we've had this discussion; there were far worse offenders than FBs balancewise, and far better ways to handle any perceived overpowered component of the things than outright banning them.

And again, we're talking a blanket ban on chemical warfare, not chloral or poly. No mindbreaker, no soporific, no cryptobiolin, no synaptizine, no nothing.

[Evilkyle24]

... Take Synaptizine out of there, thats a GOOD thing, marines get issued pills of it when someone makes them. Its a stimulant.

And I told you, if marines didn't send one squad to get slaughered then camp to shit, aliens wouldn't be able to evolve a mass of crushers.

And yes, it does mean JACK when I'm in a squad that killed two crushers. Get it?

They're NOT relatively unstoppable outside of niche circumstances. Go fucking kill them in the open instead of hiding in a LONG NARROW HALLWAY DESIGNED FOR CRUSHERS TO CHARGE DOWN.

Ripleys are not "NICHE" in defensive situations, they're great at locking a corridor down and a tiny alien can't deal with em. You have to swarm or call in the big guns.

You can't say "Their weaknesses are obvious" and then immediately say "They're unstoppable". Thats contradicting yourself.

[Surrealistik]

Synaptizine though a stimulant is also a deadly toxin that is pretty much impossible to eliminate from one's system outside of dialysis because it metabolizes so slowly and cannot be removed by dylovene; this is why I always pair it with _lots_ of anti-tox at a 20 : 1 ratio when making combat drugs with them; a leading reason inexperienced doctors shouldn't mess with chemistry too much when making consumables.

You can go on about theoretical 'what ifs' in terms of platonic ideals of Marine play, but the simple fact is that mass Crushers in practice are consistently achieved, and when achieved, are unstoppable outside of a Ripley phalanx that Team Alien would like to ban. Assuming perfect/near perfect competence on behalf of the marines, and using that as a basis for balance is simply naive. Hell, even if Marines are relatively fast about assaulting the hive assuming no meta, aliens still have about an hour and a half to get their evolutions between Marines briefing, getting equipped, deploying, establishing and securing FOB, the first initial skirmishes, and then finding _a_ hive.

And no, you killing 2 Crushers once upon a time is not evidence that Crushers are balanced on the whole; it simply is not. It does indeed mean jack in terms of assessing crusher balance on a systemic, overall level.

Ripleys are indeed only effective in niche defensive situations; in fact you just described one of two key niche defensive situations in which they are worth a damn (shuttle rushing Crushers en mass is the other).

And no, it's not contradictory to point out that despite obvious weaknesses they are unstoppable in certain key contexts; when there are so many of them that the weakness almost doesn't matter for example.

[Keyword]

Is this even about making Squad Medics able to perform bone surgery anymore...?

[Dalavi]

It seems to have gone off topic a bit. Please, Kyle and Surrealistik, I'm no mod but please just take it to the Discussion forum or another suggestion, a'ight?

Getting back on topic, I say either 1. Allow the medics to heal fractures, 2. Only allow aliens to target limbs, chest and head or, 3. Have splints cover hands as well. The reasons for medics being able to heal fractures have already been covered well enough in the thread, particularly by Mycroft. As for the second option... aliens, if you wish to argue lore and veer away from metagaming, don't seem to understand the concept of long-term crippling, nor firearms in general until it's (violently) shown to them. And the third option seems to be the best compromise for this current issue if the community is seriously split. Honestly I'd employ the third option as a fix for the current issue, then look into the wider issue presented by Mycroft at a slightly later dater (hopefully very soon).

[Nikov]

I'm all for hand-splinting. It practically achieves healing the fracture without every medic becoming a hand surgeon. Furthermore, a broken finger certainly can be splinted and the hand still able to operate some sort of device. A gun is a bit of a stretch, I prefer it over forbidding hand targeting or other measures.

[GingerCultLeader]

It would help counter the general meta that aliens target the marine's arms solely to incapacitate them in their use of the M41A.

[Mycroft Macarthur]

on that note i feel more marines should use gyrostabilizers, paired with a red dot sight your accuracy does not suffer any and if one hand is fucked you have a spare so you can keep firing since the gun becomes one handed, as a bonus if BOTH hands are fine your spare is free for faster reloads, grenades, chems, tools or even riot shields if you manage to find one.

[Steelpoint]

Yeah but screen shake recoil is annoying as crap.

[Mycroft Macarthur]

odd, i've never once gotten screen shake recoil when using gyros.

then again i use it on shotguns so its not as bad for me (you dont fire as often with those REGARDLESS)

[Steelpoint]

Fracture's need to be more easily fixable, its really obnoxious you have to spend 30 to 40 minutes out of the game due to one petty swipe from a Runner or a mis fire from a gun.

Whereas the same Runners and Alien can tank rockets and spend 30 seconds getting healed on weeds.

[apophis775]

Nope, I adjusted the strength of limbs not long ago, should be as constant of breaks to the point that this is needed, also doctors are allowed on the fobs now.