Colonial Marines Ammo Management: Less is More

Thrain
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Re: Colonial Marines Ammo Management: Less is More

Post by Thrain » 17 Aug 2015, 23:54

Lostmixup wrote:I say limit the ammo around the sulaco in general, making calling in supply crates more necessary, and limiting people's ammo in a sense.
I don't think that would work too well. A few people early on getting all the equipment would then leave later joining marines unable to get at gear easily. Which would probably lead them to head into combat under-prepared and more likely to loose than they already are.

I did have one somewhat complex idea for this though:
Remove guns and ammo from the vending machines. Then give requisitions a new 'weapons kit' object. A sort of modified box that doesn't fit inside of anything. The box would contain the weapon in question, 5-7 magazines for that weapon, and two empty slots for cargo-staff to stick accessory items in before handing the item over to a marine. Specialty jobs would also get their own kits, such as engineers getting an 'engineering kit', and so fourth. This way cargo can make sure nobody is getting an excessive amount of supplies at the detriment of their companions. (I have a few rounds had engineers clean out everything in the engineering prep and then had cargo lack the supply points to supply me with anything.) I think returning a mostly empty weapon kit should give requisitions one cargo point, and then ordering a new weapon kit would cost exactly one point. Exotic weapons should probably cost 2 points (going or coming), and medical/engineering/command kits could cost three points.

At a base level cargo could order and return kits at net zero, and maintain that. Then the points that they gain over time and through sending back proper crates could then be used on supplies or ordering some additional kits for people who want more than requisitions can hand out by default.

There is a disadvantage of the fact that there would probably need to be at least one additional cargo tech to handle the round-start rush, or alternatively the bridge officers could help out round-start I guess.

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Re: Colonial Marines Ammo Management: Less is More

Post by FatalEYES » 17 Aug 2015, 23:58

I only carry 3 magazines of ammo on me AT MAX, two in the belt and one in a pocket. Assuming I'm a spec, I'll have a flamer and two cans of fuel in my backpack and that honestly holds me out just fine until I'm up on the Sulaco and have time to restock. However, it isn't uncommon that I'm taking half full magazines from the battlefield when I'm running low on ammo and I really like the enjoyment and tension it adds to my personnel gameplay. So yeah, I'll say +1 for this.
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Re: Colonial Marines Ammo Management: Less is More

Post by Lostmixup » 18 Aug 2015, 00:01

FatalEYES wrote:I only carry 3 magazines of ammo on me AT MAX, two in the belt and one in a pocket. Assuming I'm a spec, I'll have a flamer and two cans of fuel in my backpack and that honestly holds me out just fine until I'm up on the Sulaco and have time to restock. However, it isn't uncommon that I'm taking half full magazines from the battlefield when I'm running low on ammo and I really like the enjoyment and tension it adds to my personnel gameplay. So yeah, I'll say +1 for this.
I take a rifle and two back up weapons of done sort and only carry enough ammo to fit in my belt
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Re: Colonial Marines Ammo Management: Less is More

Post by Biolock » 18 Aug 2015, 02:05

Players right now don't have to really manage their space, especially standards... That's bullshit. If we're concerned that this is a nerf to the marines, then something else needs to be nerfed or buffed. There are few regular players, robust regular players rather, that can't manage their inventory to carry more than enough of what they need. As a medic, I carry six magazines of ammunition including the one in my rifle, and nearly everything in the medical vendomat (plus many duplicates: quick clot, dex plus, etc) without even using a webbing. The fact of the matter is that if you can't manage your inventory as a damn standard while receiving an inventory nerf, that's your fault and your problem, not the game's fault.

Addition: I also carry a sidearm and one extra speed loader for it as well as a flare.
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Re: Colonial Marines Ammo Management: Less is More

Post by Dyne » 18 Aug 2015, 02:08

Give standarts more gear to choose from- issue solved.
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Re: Colonial Marines Ammo Management: Less is More

Post by Biolock » 18 Aug 2015, 04:46

Dyne wrote:Give standarts more gear to choose from- issue solved.
That doesn't even address the problem, let alone solve it.
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Re: Colonial Marines Ammo Management: Less is More

Post by Snoopy11 » 18 Aug 2015, 05:21

-1 I feel it's another handicap that the marines can do without. There's only so many spaces you have on your person. Plus, it takes a while to grab something out of a box.

Open pack > Grab box > Click box with free hand/drag to self > Pull out mag. In combat, that's a lot of stuff to do.

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Re: Colonial Marines Ammo Management: Less is More

Post by Biolock » 18 Aug 2015, 06:14

Snoopy11 wrote:-1 I feel it's another handicap that the marines can do without. There's only so many spaces you have on your person. Plus, it takes a while to grab something out of a box.

Open pack > Grab box > Click box with free hand/drag to self > Pull out mag. In combat, that's a lot of stuff to do.
Alright snoopy let's hear it, what's your loadout?
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Re: Colonial Marines Ammo Management: Less is More

Post by cylian » 18 Aug 2015, 09:26

-1

The way that the game works with even the weakest aliens being able to recover to full HP by standing on some random vines for a few seconds (possibly soaking up an entire belt worth of magazines in minutes) leaves this logistical suggestion kinda awkward as 70-90% of all ammo shot is missed to begin with. RO needs to be able to send in frequent airdrops of ammo without needing someone from command to approve it for this to ever become viable as the infrastructure on the Sulaco is too much yo-yo with people going SSD or downright dying due to premature alien boardings.

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Re: Colonial Marines Ammo Management: Less is More

Post by Biolock » 18 Aug 2015, 09:34

cylian wrote:-1

The way that the game works with even the weakest aliens being able to recover to full HP by standing on some random vines for a few seconds (possibly soaking up an entire belt worth of magazines in minutes) leaves this logistical suggestion kinda awkward as 70-90% of all ammo shot is missed to begin with. RO needs to be able to send in frequent airdrops of ammo without needing someone from command to approve it for this to ever become viable as the infrastructure on the Sulaco is too much yo-yo with people going SSD or downright dying due to premature alien boardings.
You shouldn't be fighting xenos alone, and if you are, you shouldn't be expecting to get kills, you should be expected to ward off the xenos long enough to get to a group. Having an unrealistic surplus of ammo is just another factor that promotes solo ramboing.
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Re: Colonial Marines Ammo Management: Less is More

Post by Steelpoint » 18 Aug 2015, 09:37

He said nothing about fighting alone.....
This is war, survival is your responsibility.

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Re: Colonial Marines Ammo Management: Less is More

Post by cylian » 18 Aug 2015, 09:47

Biolock wrote:You shouldn't be fighting xenos alone
Never said I was. Not even once did I even remotely hint towards that.
Biolock wrote:you shouldn't be expecting to get kills
Never said I was expecting kills either. I simply stated some facts that some aliens can soak up bullets like nobodies business, including the red ones being able to outrun said bullets, causing them to not only be extremely hard to hit in the first place but even harder to kill due to their insane abilities to regenerate damage and not suffer any permanent injuries.
Biolock wrote:you should be expected to ward off the xenos long enough
Warding them off is not a problem if I brought sufficient ammo. I have however, played extensively as an harassment oriented xeno and I can say from experience that the moment marines stop firing, they will suffer severe injuries. Even if they are in a group behind fortifications.
Biolock wrote:Having an unrealistic surplus of ammo is just another factor that promotes solo ramboing.
.. What? Ramboing is only done by stupid people who don't realize how easy It is for aliens to knock you out & kidnap you. Don't blame the f*cking inventory space for this out of all things.

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Re: Colonial Marines Ammo Management: Less is More

Post by CaptainBritton02 » 18 Aug 2015, 09:49

I give it a +1. Also *magazines. This is a clip: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... M1-SKS.JPG
This is a Magazine: http://cartter.net/pictures/Clips/556Magazine.jpg
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Re: Colonial Marines Ammo Management: Less is More

Post by Biolock » 18 Aug 2015, 10:05

cylian wrote: Never said I was. Not even once did I even remotely hint towards that.

By using the measurement of one gun's firing capabilities, the scenario implies you are alone.
Never said I was expecting kills either. I simply stated some facts that some aliens can soak up bullets like nobodies business, including the red ones being able to outrun said bullets, causing them to not only be extremely hard to hit in the first place but even harder to kill due to their insane abilities to regenerate damage and not suffer any permanent injuries.

A runner will straight out die from eight hits with a pulse rifle.
Warding them off is not a problem if I brought sufficient ammo. I have however, played extensively as an harassment oriented xeno and I can say from experience that the moment marines stop firing, they will suffer severe injuries. Even if they are in a group behind fortifications.

I too am experienced in the field, many of the xeno's, especially the runners (red ones), use running near the marines and running off as a means of draining the marine's ammo. This tactic will always work if the marines bite it, regardless if you have 6 mags a person or 20.
.. What? Ramboing is only done by stupid people who don't realize how easy It is for aliens to knock you out & kidnap you. Don't blame the f*cking inventory space for this out of all things.
Carrying more ammo does support ramboing to an extent because you are less reliant on your teammates for cover fire. If you can afford to waste ammunition shooting at every dark spot on the map, you're more likely to run off. Admittedly, this is not my strongest point and not the one to be focusing on.


Ultimately having a more finite amount of ammo creates a more intense atmosphere in the game, one that many players, including myself, enjoy.
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Re: Colonial Marines Ammo Management: Less is More

Post by Infernus » 18 Aug 2015, 10:13

Making aliens get little permanent damage or making them heal on weeds 10 seconds after they got hit will very much balance this ammo management nerf.

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Re: Colonial Marines Ammo Management: Less is More

Post by Biolock » 18 Aug 2015, 10:19

Infernus wrote:Making aliens get little permanent damage or making them heal on weeds 10 seconds after they got hit will very much balance this ammo management nerf.
I almost never play xenos, but having them get permanent damage that can never be healed is kinda shitty. Maybe the queen can produce some sort of medical jelly or something to heal this permanent damage/ limb loss.
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Re: Colonial Marines Ammo Management: Less is More

Post by SecretStamos (Joshuu) » 18 Aug 2015, 10:31

Infernus wrote:Making aliens get little permanent damage or making them heal on weeds 10 seconds after they got hit will very much balance this ammo management nerf.
I agree with the idea of reducing the effectiveness of weeds on health regeneration. In my opinion, weeds make aliens extremely powerful, which deters marines from attacking alien nests and deters aliens from leaving them.

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Re: Colonial Marines Ammo Management: Less is More

Post by Jeser » 18 Aug 2015, 14:47

Lostmixup wrote:I say limit the ammo around the sulaco in general, making calling in supply crates more necessary, and limiting people's ammo in a sense.
Before this you have to make NORMAL "Large Calibre" and "Small Calibre" ammo crates.
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Re: Colonial Marines Ammo Management: Less is More

Post by Nikov » 21 Aug 2015, 03:44

You may enjoy taking less ammo than you should, but I don't enjoy being needlessly crippled in combat. Furthermore this is not an 'unrealistic surplus of ammo'. Someone taking six SMG's in their backpack is a problem, yes. That's unrealistic. But a realistic ammunition load for what amounts to a platoon jumping off a space ship? Four mags? Six mags?

"Of course the six magazines these two pouches carried wasn't nearly enough, so I also carried a used Claymore mine bag, with the dividing stitching ripped out, which held fourteen magazines. One magazine in my rifle, six on the belt, and fourteen in the pouch - I carried almost four hundred rounds of M-16 ammunition. And several times I used almost every one!"

I only go in with six but for goodness sake, don't call it unrealistic to see soldiers pulling as much ammo as they can stuff on their bodies. And to say those players who draw more ammo are bad team players is simple projection. To go into combat with less ammo than your combat load and rely on bumming ammo from those who planned ahead will not make you a popular individual in real life.
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Re: Colonial Marines Ammo Management: Less is More

Post by Jeser » 21 Aug 2015, 03:47

I usually have 5 magazines. And sometimes I take 2-3 more in a box. For those idiots who waste all their magazines in a first half an hour.
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Re: Colonial Marines Ammo Management: Less is More

Post by Jack McIntyre » 23 Aug 2015, 13:04

Where does it say this is a USCM deployment? I always play marine and I can tell you every time we are told we need to go down and check out a colony and rescue possible suvivors. There is never any, we are going to hold this planet until further orders or anything. I always sling my rifle in my backpack, a knife in my armor with a flare, side arm in my suit storage, and 4-5 rifle ammo and 1-2 sidearm ammo on my belt. I always laugh a bit when we gear at the start because we all know we fight aliens so everyone grabs all the ammo because they know how bad it gets down there. When I need to I loot their bodies for ammo because to be honest they die before they even use half that ammo because they think that ammo will save them.

As for how many rounds it takes to kill a alien if you work as a squad you can gun down a lot of aliens with less rounds, because after all you hit them faster with rounds then just ramboing it. If people want to grab all the ammo they usually grab at the start when we find out we are fighting shit loads of ammo then by all means load up, but I would agree we don't need to be loading up on shit loads of ammo when we think we are just checking out a dead colony and looking for suvivors because we don't even know about the xenos. Otherwise the commander to start the briefing could mention that we just got orders to go on a "Bug" Hunt and we needed to get suvivors and clear the colony. So although I know unpopular with marines I would say +1

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Re: Colonial Marines Ammo Management: Less is More

Post by HalfdeadKiller » 23 Aug 2015, 13:15

-1 Even with our current ammo system, I have seen marines running short on ammo. Someone referenced Aliens, and some marines running out of ammo. That is because their ammo kinda blew up earlier in the movie. They would have had plenty more had it not have. Also, due to ammo crates costing what I think is too high of supply points, for hardly any ammo, logistcal resupplying via cargo is pretty tough as is. And you should consider yourself lucky if you have a competent RO and BO getting those supplies ready for a drop. Marines don't need harder ammo logistics system currently in my opinion, it is already tough enough as is.

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Re: Colonial Marines Ammo Management: Less is More

Post by Evilkyle24 » 23 Aug 2015, 13:40

HalfdeadKiller wrote:-1 Even with our current ammo system, I have seen marines running short on ammo. Someone referenced Aliens, and some marines running out of ammo. That is because their ammo kinda blew up earlier in the movie. They would have had plenty more had it not have. Also, due to ammo crates costing what I think is too high of supply points, for hardly any ammo, logistcal resupplying via cargo is pretty tough as is. And you should consider yourself lucky if you have a competent RO and BO getting those supplies ready for a drop. Marines don't need harder ammo logistics system currently in my opinion, it is already tough enough as is.
Its important to remember that the Colonial Marines players are not a military organization. We're a bunch of computer nerds sitting in front of a glowing screen moving pixelated sprites around for the hell of it. Sure, in theory a supply beacon is useful, but the fact that we aren't exactly organized when we play kind of kills it.
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Re: Colonial Marines Ammo Management: Less is More

Post by Nikov » 24 Aug 2015, 10:30

Adam Hunter wrote:Where does it say this is a USCM deployment? I always play marine and I can tell you every time we are told we need to go down and check out a colony and rescue possible survivors.
Survivors of what? The liaison that hired the Sulaco very likely knows, the fact he hired the Marines and not a far less expensive civilian group demonstrates it, and the fact WY is permitting all manner of weapons into their colony proves it. Higher-ups know there's a need for weapons, and the soldiers would take standard combat loads. All research will demonstrate that is at least six magazines. The argument to say they wouldn't take more than the minimum because they expect alien contact is an argument about metagaming. With the number of hardened veteran characters it is really no surprise they pack extra ammo, following the logic that it is better to have a sore back than an empty chamber.

I can only repeat, -1.
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Re: Colonial Marines Ammo Management: Less is More

Post by Jack McIntyre » 24 Aug 2015, 12:52

But again standard load out, we aren't told that we are shit loads of aliens to fight off when we go down. Do we think we may encounter contact? Yea, but do you think the marines know they are going to be fighting against tough aliens that you need to put thousands of rounds into just to take them down? (Yes I know thousands is extreme, but you catch my drift.) Yes we want to bring that extra ammo and we have many instances although I am not sure how Vietnam refers to Colonial Marines, but alright. All I am saying is that yes we were hired, but having some guys carrying 20+ rounds into combat when he is probably going to die within the first five minutes on touching the planet...again I don't see the point. You just screw over the guys who are still in the fight in the late game because they may run out of ammo on the ship and kinda of hard to go back and try to find your body which is probably in the alien hive. Again I just don't see it, and to be honest we could work on something where the marines are more organized. I don't know if anyone has ever played arma or been in a mil sim unit, but yes we were all just playing on the computer, but when you would see missions that were planned and how they went off with sometimes the command guys with admin powers would make it so the plan fell through, so now you have to adapt. Oh your convoy that you thought was going to bring ammo or that supply drop you were expecting, yea that just got hit or shot down, so better borrow or scavenge off the dead enemy. Oh you thought that lz was going to be clear, guess what, we just had it get hit hard, now you have to find a way to get out your wounded without a medevac. Some of these guys were ex military, they knew shit could go wrong and they wanted you to adapt. You don't adapt and you fall apart then people die, you can't go in like rambo carrying hundreds of rounds because in the game, that weighted you down, and if you had all that weight guess what, your guy got tired faster and you passed out. Now you think fighting street to street, block to block in a urban environment is going to make your comrades happy when you can't even run five feet without passing out on the corner? Hell no, heck we even used to ditch our packs just bringing the essentials with us when we would attack a outpost or something leaving them in a spot together and marking it on our map so we could retrieve them so we could move quicker.

Now i know we don't have the weight system or anything, but you have to understand, most of the marines are thinking, go down check the colony, see what the hell happened, and once it is all clear and everything checks out, hop back up to the ship, get some chow and eat again. You think they are thinking, "Man we are going to spend a few weeks or months down there, and we may not get resupplied at all while we are the surface, we better pack for being there for a while. Would the vets bring a bit more stuff yea, but I doubt they would pack a bunch of extra shit. I mean look at black hawk down, most of the rangers who had experience didn't pack a lot of gear because they thought, it will just be a few hours for the mission and then we are back to base. Sure it bit them in the ass, but you think they were expecting all that shit to blow up in their face? I am sure even the guys who brought their full gear didn't think everything was going to go to shit. So I get it be prepared more then other people, but you don't need to bring enough ammo to be ready for world war three.

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