Fix Ladders

[UNDUS]

Summary (a quick, 2-3 sentence summary): Make the ladder delay smaller or remove it completely. Alternatively, remove ladders and replace them with stairs, which would just work by moving into them.

Benefits (How this will benefit the server and game as a whole): Right now, as soon as xenos are spotted on the Sulaco, everyone rushes to the ladders since they're implemented in a deathtrappish way.

Using the ladder takes several seconds and you're fully vulnerable during that time, and cannot move. You also can't see up or down ladders to know what you're climbing into, which makes things worse. All of this makes ladder-camping the go-to method for Sulaco defence. This is dumb, encourages metagaming, and is not in-line with the spirit of the game at all.

I have actually seen entire fortresses built around the ladders, with mines and barricades laid. All to exploit a gimmicky and awful mechanic. Something needs to change about the ladders.

Details (Description of how you think this would work, the benefits, etc): The only problem I foresee with no ladder delay is that people would spam up and down the ladders to avoid being hit. I think if the ladders were replaced with stairs instead this wouldn't be as big of a problem. Ultimately there's probably always going to be some clunkiness with ladders/stairs. Trying to have 3D movement in a 2D game is hard. But I'd prefer anything to how it is now.

Implementation (Optional, if you have an idea how to implement it): N/A

[Derpislav]

viewtopic.php?f=86&t=3106&hilit=ladder
Oh lol.


EDIT: Also, the last time I've placed anything remotely close to ladders (grilles two tiles away, emitters not pointed at ladders, but the hallway they're in) admins drained the power from the station ten times and exploded the emitters. Just a-help it when you see "ladder meta"*



*<vomits in the corner, almost dead from toxic overdose of the word "meta" these days>

[Tetsip]

No.

No.

No.

This timer was added because marines would abuse the no-timer to make themselves invulnerable gophers bouncing between ladders as they pop in, shoot, pop back out.. Pop in, grenade, shoot, pop back out. They were heavily abused. If aliens are camping the ladders, don't go down the ladders unless you're ready to die. Common bloody sense and what-have-you.

[UNDUS]

Then either replace them with stairs or add a rule that disallows ladder-hopping. The game shouldn't be stuck with a shit mechanic just because you tried to fix it once and it didn't work.

[Kilm]

Which server is it that runs SS13 and they have stairs that work really, really well? You simply walk up them and you shift a 'z' level. No delay, nothing.... I don't see what's wrong with that idea.

[UNDUS]

I know bay has them, dunno what else.

[coroneljones]

-1
You are saying marines abuse it
Well Xenos abused it as well,Going up and down forever,even a hivelord could outrun a predator on the ladders,the delay is fine

[Mycroft Macarthur]

having working stairs in the manner you describe is impossible, the two levels of the ship arent actually physically connected, they're two completely separate entities on different Z-Levels, thats why if you fuck up the floors it causes a breach instead of dropping you downstairs, being able to see UP the ladders is impossible for the same reasons unless it worked similar to how security cameras worked, which would render you incapable of defending yourself when you did it same as with security cameras, i can understand your grievance but i dont think theres a way around this.

the closest you could get is giving aliens a way to create their own ladders to breach the upstairs/downstairs respectively, it wouldn't work to let them put such things anywhere to lead anywhere but supposedly we might be able to put in designated parts of the ship where a hivelord would be capable of creating a spire of some kind that could breach the floor above them (ic'ly) which functioned identically to ladders otherwise. (for a high plasma cost of course), this would give aliens the option to flank such defenses or at least create new openings in areas which either arent as easy for marines to defend or would be considered metagaming if they DID set up a defensive line there to prevent the spire breach (unless they had other reasons to put up a defensive line in that particular location)

[Atpot]

-1
The timer was a suggestion that was implemented due to marines and xenos abusing the no timer count.

[UNDUS]

having working stairs in the manner you describe is impossible,

No it isn't, bay has them

[Mycroft Macarthur]

the way bay has them is basically the same as ladders work here, the only difference is that instead of having to click it we just move.

[Feweh]

Awful suggestion.

Think of how easy it was to abuse the ladders in the past.

[UNDUS]

Awful suggestion.

Think of how easy it was to abuse the ladders in the past.

It's easy to abuse them right now, too. How about we look for a solution that removes all varieties of ladder abuse?

[UNDUS]

the way bay has them is basically the same as ladders work here, the only difference is that instead of having to click it we just move.

Which is infinitely better, because you can actually block people trying to spam between the z-levels. It's way better than the ladders we have, in any case.

[Derpislav]

Since Sulaco's a military vessel, it's kinda stupid that the only way to the hangar is through ladders. Imagine throwing ammo crates and supplies down these. The most RP-friendly alternative is an elevator, but imagine fitting these 60+ roundstart marines on one...
Getting offtopic there, sorry.

[Tetsip]

It'd have to be one of those battalion-sized elevators like in the Star Destroyers of the Star Wars universe. Those ones that come up with an entire deployment of storm-troopers in formation. Hnngh.

[XanderDox]

having working stairs in the manner you describe is impossible, the two levels of the ship arent actually physically connected, they're two completely separate entities on different Z-Levels, thats why if you fuck up the floors it causes a breach instead of dropping you downstairs, being able to see UP the ladders is impossible for the same reasons unless it worked similar to how security cameras worked, which would render you incapable of defending yourself when you did it same as with security cameras, i can understand your grievance but i dont think theres a way around this.

There are two servers I have been on that have Z-Levels connected, from the itop level, you can see whats going on below you in holes in the floor, for example the bar has two levels, there is an open space above the barcounter so you can see the Bartender serving drinks below you, if you break the window and walk into the open space, you fall into the area right below you.

It does great for immersion and is possible.

[Mycroft Macarthur]

what? thats exactly the opposite of how the stairs worked at bay, if you stand on the square to keep people from moving down then the only thing that happens is they get teleported ANYWAYS and you both end up occuping the same physical space, aliens would have an even WORSE time trying to fight the aliens because the aliens would be teleported on TOP of them, meaning the marines would be covered by the aliens OWN SPRITE, we would be free to stab the shit out of you and you couldn't fight back because you wouldn't be able to click us.

[TopHatPenguin]

An elevator would be a nice.. alternate way to go up or from each z-Level and i suppose it could generally work the same way our shuttles work but instead of you seeing space outside you would see grilles or walls outside ( while moving that is ).

Just imagine this but bigger..And maybe in a different style.

[apophis775]

Denied.