Play Around With Stealth Mechanics

[YummyToast]

Summary (a quick, 2-3 sentence summary): I would like to see the coders/whateverthehell experiment and do some testing to play around with the ability for more stealth options when playing as a human. The fact that Xeno's have complete straight up X-Ray vision that goes unhindered is something that I find seemingly underworked. I think there is a lot more potential to add some balancing/immersion in this area of the game that has been completely passed over.

Benefits (How this will benefit the server and game as a whole): Give any humans that would like to play a more tactical/stealth based experience those options. As of right now a Xeno can see you laying down through a wall in their full vision area. As well as being able to see every item you have and things in that room. If we add stealth options for humans the game can be much more fun and a whole new side of strategy can occur.

Details (Description of how you think this would work, the benefits, etc): As for the details of this I am unsure, I would like this to be an open discussion so that we can all come together as a community and come up with some great ideas to work off this. Here are some basic things to get us started and get some ideas bouncing.

• Limit the range of Xeno X-Ray Vision?
  Make Xeno X-ray vision instead only detect lifeforms?
  Implement a run/walk system where Xeno's can only detect marines with Run intent on?
  Add items/augmentations for marine that hide them from Xeno vision?
  Make only certain Castes able to see through walls to some extent?
  Xenos see moving marines only through sound?

Implementation (Optional, if you have an idea how to implement it): Honestly, it depends on what ideas we come up with together as to how it can be implemented.

OTHER NOTES: I would like us to discuss this as a whole. I think that adding some stealth options for humans would add new depth to the game (And is completely canon might I add) as well as solve some balancing issues.

[Jeser]

A-a-and we again facing questions: how aliens sense living creatures and how they sensing environment. Still no one gave solid answer with arguments. Before doing something we need to clarify this question, either through main alien lore or making our vision on these questions in our, CM's, lore.

[K0NFL1QT]

As far as I know, there is a rework for Alien Vision coming 'Soon™'. At the moment they have Darkvision and Thermal Vision combined into perfect X-Ray Vision. Not bad for a species that doesn't have eyes.

[YummyToast]

Xeno using smell as sight be like "I love the smell of: Glass, Grilles, Walls, Metal Rods, Grass, Security Department, Soda Can, Suspicious Looking Toolbox, Flashlight, 4no Raisins, Rolling Pin, Sink, Filing Cabinet, Book Case, Ripley, Central Primary Hallway APC, Potted Plant, Power Cable, Toilet, Replica Katana, Candle, Blood, Wooden Barricade, Dense Jungle Wall, Medical Splints, Closet, T-Ray Scanner, Multi-Tool, Soap, Rack Parts, Sunglasses, Colony Floodlight, etc."

[Jeser]

What I want definitely is nerfing alien's vision. For example, if anyone could explain me, how the fuck alien can see, what weapon carries marine through 5 walls, will receive cookie from me. (Yes, I don't want aliens to META-know, what name of this marine, what his class, weapon. Aliens shouldn't be able to find out what weapon marine carries, M41A, SMG or Smartgun until they got few bullets from that weapon in them. Or line of fire. Or rocket. Or incendiary bullet from scoped rifle. Or throwing knife.)

[coroneljones]

OR...
Make them detect any Organic being and or item in their vicinity via pheromones,any anything in their field of view is visible,but no X-ray maybe.

Also....Marine Cone of Vision?

[spheretech]

I don't think xenos should have xray at all. Maybe thermals or some hybrid like predators have.

[johners12345]

If we could get actual vision mechanics in. That would be big.

[Jeser]

OR...
Make them detect any Organic being and or item in their vicinity via pheromones,any anything in their field of view is visible,but no X-ray maybe.

Also....Marine Cone of Vision?

I already thought about Cone of Vision. Also about flashlights' cone of light. This should be great, RP, reallistic, increase squad unity, make teamwork even more essential and vital. But! I came up with thought that before making these changes to marines, aliens definitely need vision nerfs.

My main idea. Marines should have:

1. Cone of vision. Yeah-yeah, cover your sectors, people! You have blind spots! And many!
2. Flashlights' should have cone of light. RP, fun, realism and so on.

BUT, before implementing this, I want:

• Aliens to see ONLY silhouettes of marines. So you won't see what gear, what weapon, what marine's profession. ALWAYS. After all, they don't have eyes (or they are not working), people. So no more hunting on engineers, medics and SLs. Aliens DON'T understand ID tags. They DON'T see difference between engineer with SMG and Spec OP with Smartgun. They both are just future hosts.

If you implement this, I'm totally up for Cones of View and Light for marines.

Okay, I'm making suggestion, I guess.

[HalfdeadKiller]

Thermals, that would allow seeing mobs, but not map layout, would be very nice for aliens in my opinion. That is how it worked in most every video game featuring aliens. However, lore-wise, x-ray would make more sense. Or, shared knowledge of alien "line of sight".

A more complex, but perhaps semi accurate version, would be all aliens having shared line of sight. Say one alien can see into a room, but another can't, but the room is within both of their sight ranges. Due to one alien being able to see inside the room, the other alien would be able to also see what the first alien sees. If the first alien loses line of sight into the room, so does the second alien. This sounds incredibly complex to code, however.

[Felkvir]

I already thought about Cone of Vision. Also about flashlights' cone of light. This should be great, RP, reallistic, increase squad unity, make teamwork even more essential and vital. But! I came up with thought that before making these changes to marines, aliens definitely need vision nerfs.

My main idea. Marines should have:

1. Cone of vision. Yeah-yeah, cover your sectors, people! You have blind spots! And many!
2. Flashlights' should have cone of light. RP, fun, realism and so on.

BUT, before implementing this, I want:

• Aliens to see ONLY silhouettes of marines. So you won't see what gear, what weapon, what marine's profession. ALWAYS. After all, they don't have eyes (or they are not working), people. So no more hunting on engineers, medics and SLs. Aliens DON'T understand ID tags. They DON'T see difference between engineer with SMG and Spec OP with Smartgun. They both are just future hosts.

If you implement this, I'm totally up for Cones of View and Light for marines.

Okay, I'm making suggestion, I guess.

Silhouettes would make most sense, with how xenos detect their prey.. I'm all for that

[Mycroft Macarthur]

all i know is in the lore its physically possible to hide yourself from the aliens, i remember reading in one of the books someone made a suit that disguised someone as a xenomorph so they could go into the alien hive and the aliens wouldn't attack you or try to facehug you because they believed you were one of them (the disguise was imperfect in some way because the xenomorphs could realise you were a fake over time)

damn i wish you could post PDF's in these forums, i have some good stuff i could hook you guys up with.

[YummyToast]

all i know is in the lore its physically possible to hide yourself from the aliens, i remember reading in one of the books someone made a suit that disguised someone as a xenomorph so they could go into the alien hive and the aliens wouldn't attack you or try to facehug you because they believed you were one of them (the disguise was imperfect in some way because the xenomorphs could realise you were a fake over time)

damn i wish you could post PDF's in these forums, i have some good stuff i could hook you guys up with.

Ripley was able to hide from the Alien in the first movie. Unless it INTENTIONALLY didn't go after her. And then you have Alien Isolation which is literally about hiding from an alien.

[Evilkyle24]

The reason Aliens have X-Ray is so they can see the hive layout and don't get lost or run into a wall. That used to happen a lot.

Perhaps give them Meson vision instead?

[Jeser]

Perhaps give them Meson vision instead?

Well, not bad idea. I'm stealing it for my suggestion.

[YummyToast]

Well, not bad idea. I'm stealing it for my suggestion.

Not trying to sound rude, but isn't it kinda silly to have made that suggestion when this is here. And is literally the same thing discussing vision and how it plays with the stealth game

[Jeser]

Not trying to sound rude, but isn't it kinda silly to have made that suggestion when this is here. And is literally the same thing discussing vision and how it plays with the stealth game

This is kinda, more discussion, than suggestion. I made post exactly suggesting few detailed variants to implement. This is difference.

[Lostmixup]

I literally couldn't care less about the cannon in this instance. PLEASE for the love of everything, make it so that the X-ray works of a run/walk system, works based on proximity, and or works based on sound.

[apophis775]

Dunno what to do with a stealth system, since the aliens sort of "sense" people...

[Astralenigma]

Honestly, I think the aliens use a mix of smell and sound to determine their environment, they do a lot of clicking and screaming. Maybe smell to sense prey and sound to detect the environment.

[Jestephos]

Just remembering how Aliens worked in movies/games.. they used a mix of smell AKA Pheromone detecting and Echolocation.. and something akin to how Sharks find their prey. I'd be perfectly fine if you'd only be able to see Marines when they were moving/running unless you were at close range, then you'd just flat out see them anyways.

[Boltersam]

Well, not to copy someone earlier on, Alien Isolation you could hide under a table with the alien right there in the room.

Aliens do have eyes inside their skull, their skull is a one-way window.

a lot of people are having mixed feelings about this, and I'll lay down some things to think about, a lot of people are thinking aliens use thermal vision or smell to sense people, to rule out the thermal vision, cover yourself in mud, for smell, literally smear crap all over yourself.
If you talk about sound, I suppose they could hear somebody breathing, if they weren't holding their breath, and if they were moving.

that's the three ways you've all talked about that could lead to aliens sensing people.

the cone of vision/light is a really old idea on CM, but it was never implemented because it's too much of a nerf when aliens see you through walls and have a full vision, personally I would like to see it used, so that aliens can actually sneak up behind people, but as of now aliens have senses that are too keen even in the lore.

[bustered1]

So, I just thought of a really cool thing when i heard "they do a lot of clicking and screaming." Maybe along the lines of put an action in the Alien tab to throw out a sonar sort of thing where the aliens can see for a brief session what they have to see. OR have it to where the there is a second interval between being able to see hosts and moving down to meson vision afterwards. I think that's a cool concept.

[Boltersam]

So, I just thought of a really cool thing when i heard "they do a lot of clicking and screaming." Maybe along the lines of put an action in the Alien tab to throw out a sonar sort of thing where the aliens can see for a brief session what they have to see. OR have it to where the there is a second interval between being able to see hosts and moving down to meson vision afterwards. I think that's a cool concept.

Sonar. like bats? huh, well, it would explain a bunch of stuff....buuuut, unless they were xenomorphs that had the dna of bats, it's a no-go on the lore front.

[Lostmixup]

I would very much enjoy being able to do things to prevent alien thermal from tracking you, or to hide. Easy stuff like covering yourself in duct tape or something.