Hivelord improvement

[Azmodan412]

Summary (a quick, 2-3 sentence summary):
As someone who plays hivelord quite often, I have often build great, sprawling hives with sticky resin and carefully placed walls. Of course marines go right through my hive like it was nothing, so I came up with an idea. Hivelord walls/doors could have double the health they would have if built by a drone.

Benefits (How this will benefit the server and game as a whole):
I believe this would give more importance to the hivelord's structures since they are a great pink drone who can tunnel at the moment. It would also encourage people to play as a pure support xenomorph caste.

Details (Description of how you think this would work, the benefits, etc):
Let us say, for instance, that a resin wall is destroyed with three M41A Mk2 bullets and the wall was built by a drone. If this is implemented and the wall was built by a hivelord, it would take six bullets to destroy, leaving the marines with the option to ACTUALLY follow the paths laid out by the hivelord. It would reduce the amount of ammunition the marines have to actually fight the xenomorphs, which would encourage NOT destroying hivelord hives. I would be happy with a 25 plasma cost increase to account for the denser walls/doors, but with a plasma regeneration of 28 plasma per tick, it would be offset. Perhaps include a sort of sprite change to differentiate between hivelord walls/doors and drone walls/doors.

Implementation (Optional, if you have an idea how to implement it):
I have no clue about how much trouble this would cause coding-wise, but I think it would be a quick number doubling in the wall/door coding.

Edit 1: Added a Details sentence.

[RhMoore]

Personally I think it could be a "Hivelord wall/door/membrane/etc" in terms of implementation. I like this though.

[Azmodan412]

Indeed, I would like to see the Hivelord have much more use and Resin Membrane have more of a role in hive-building.

[Arachnidnexus]

+1 If the current resin wall durability is unchanged. It would give hivelords a niche and a benefit to make up for losing acid and a lot of speed. One nice thing might be to give the hivelord structures different sprites so that they stand out.

[Azmodan412]

Well, current wall durability is drone-standard. What I am suggesting is a hivelord-standard durability change. Their entire role revolves around hivebuilding, and I think their structures (Walls/doors/membranes/etc.) would have to reflect this one and ONLY focus.

[Toroic]

Well, current wall durability is drone-standard. What I am suggesting is a hivelord-standard durability change. Their entire role revolves around hivebuilding, and I think their structures (Walls/doors/membranes/etc.) would have to reflect this one and ONLY focus.

The primary focus of hivelord is actually getting a tunnel network up. They build faster than drones, but tunnels are a feature unique to the caste.

That's why one hivelord per hive is the best approach, with all other drones becoming carriers.

Indeed, I would like to see the Hivelord have much more use and Resin Membrane have more of a role in hive-building.

The membrane is garbage. Xenos have no need for such a thing, and even if it had the same durability as normal walls it's still garbage.

It has not been my experience that marines swiftly cut through my walls and sticky resin as a hivelord. Usually they get partway in and then counter attacked and destroyed, with all damage fixed in 1-2 minutes after the marines leave.

[Azmodan412]

It has been my experience when I built a hive-wall about 8 walls thick and the marines went through the other entrance and just destroyed everything very quickly. Albeit we weren't organized , but the defenses were overwhelmed and we couldn't recover. In my mind, having a tunnel network falls under hivebuilding.

[Toroic]

It has been my experience when I built a hive-wall about 8 walls thick and the marines went through the other entrance and just destroyed everything very quickly. Albeit we weren't organized , but the defenses were overwhelmed and we couldn't recover. In my mind, having a tunnel network falls under hivebuilding.

The critical piece there us the lack of coordination. A squad of marines should be able to cut through the efforts of 1 xeno the same way 8 xenos can cut through the efforts of 1 engineer.

I am very hesitant to accept buffs or nerfs for either marines or xenos. I already win the vast majority of matches I play, close to 80% playing only xeno in high-pop.

[Azmodan412]

But in typical play, an entire defensive hive is wiped away by one or two marines firing to destroy everything. I want to punish the wild firing in a hive just to destroy the walls/doors by forcing the marines to melee said fortifications in their way instead of completely and utterly destroying what hivelords work so hard and spend so much plasma on.

Edit 1: Punishment as in playing smarter and not wsting valuable xeno-killing ammo taking down walls/doors.

[apophis775]

This could be an idea.

If a hivelord builds something, it has 2x the health...

[Azmodan412]

Which would frustrate marines who would walk around the sticky-resin covered hive, destroying things in their way and appreciating the artwork, while saving ammunition to actually fight their targets.

[Toroic]

But in typical play, an entire defensive hive is wiped away by one or two marines firing to destroy everything. I want to punish the wild firing in a hive just to destroy the walls/doors by forcing the marines to melee said fortifications in their way instead of completely and utterly destroying what hivelords work so hard and spend so much plasma on.

Edit 1: Punishment as in playing smarter and not wsting valuable xeno-killing ammo taking down walls/doors.

This has never happened in a game I was playing in. The purpose of defenses is to slow down attackers while you defend with xenos, not to create an impregnable fortress.

This could be an idea.

If a hivelord builds something, it has 2x the health...

The problem with this is then a hivelord could be tempted to replace as much of the drone-produced resin as possible. It also makes drones who build a lot less satisfying, as a hivelord will eventually produce better defenses than they ever could.

[apophis775]

Then the drone can just upgrade to a Hivelord?

[Azmodan412]

I can see this issue, but what I am thinking is layered defenses, like a castle system. On the outside would be the motte and bailey, or crude, effective construction to keep enemies out and a keep in the center. Basically in my mind it would end up drones building the outer defenses, using their inherent speed to construct and the hivelords, being the slower caste, builds what would amount to an actual keep. The keep is supposed to be impregnable and a great hive doubles as a defensive and hard to siege location, as well as providing a safe place for Hivelords, hosts and even the Queen.

[Toroic]

Then the drone can just upgrade to a Hivelord?

It's common practice to keep a drone as a drone in the event of a queen death.

There's also the fact that the winrate is 50/50, so buffs and nerfs could upset the delicate balance. On the other hand, it would leave room for a marine buff or a xeno nerf.

[Azmodan412]

It's common practice to keep a drone as a drone in the event of a queen death.

There's also the fact that the winrate is 50/50, so buffs and nerfs could upset the delicate balance. On the other hand, it would leave room for a marine buff or a xeno nerf.

I feel Xenomorphs are getting a little bit of the short end of the stick and this would definitely help with the morale of people who play xenomorphs and perhaps create a demand for being Hivelord.

[Toroic]

I feel Xenomorphs are getting a little bit of the short end of the stick and this would definitely help with the morale of people who play xenomorphs and perhaps create a demand for being Hivelord.

There is already a huge benefit from having one hivelord on xeno team. Tunnels are an essential part of my strategy for winning, and ridiculously powerful if done correctly,

If you can keep the pressure on marines you don't need a impregnable hive, they'll be cowering in the FOB.

[Edgelord]

What if the hivelord had an ability that could strengthen resin walls? Kinda like strengthening a table with a welder.

[apophis775]

It's common practice to keep a drone as a drone in the event of a queen death.

There's also the fact that the winrate is 50/50, so buffs and nerfs could upset the delicate balance. On the other hand, it would leave room for a marine buff or a xeno nerf.

Which is meta as complete fuck. The death of a "queen" is such an unthought of, unmentionable loss to the aliens, that it's not even CONSIDERED. Look Aliens, the act of shooting at the queen enraged her SO MUCH she ditched her egg sack and chased ripley. It wasn't that she wanted to capture ripley or Newt, obviously, they could have captured Newt nearly anytime they wanted. It was because of the AUDACITY of what happened. This weak pitiful human ATTACKED her, in her OWN LAIR.

There's no reason to "play" for an "extra life" if the queen dies, it's meta to do so. In fact, maybe I'll adjust it so that drones are more limited with building to emphasis that hivelords are builders, and drones aren't just "1-ups"

[Toroic]

Which is meta as complete fuck. The death of a "queen" is such an unthought of, unmentionable loss to the aliens, that it's not even CONSIDERED. Look Aliens, the act of shooting at the queen enraged her SO MUCH she ditched her egg sack and chased ripley. It wasn't that she wanted to capture ripley or Newt, obviously, they could have captured Newt nearly anytime they wanted. It was because of the AUDACITY of what happened. This weak pitiful human ATTACKED her, in her OWN LAIR.

There's no reason to "play" for an "extra life" if the queen dies, it's meta to do so. In fact, maybe I'll adjust it so that drones are more limited with building to emphasis that hivelords are builders, and drones aren't just "1-ups"

Well, we could debate the advantages of drones over hivelord beyond being able to evolve into a queen (speed and acid are more useful, particularly on the sulaco where they can use the vents as well, and tunnels aren't possible. Drone is a better caste on the sulaco for that reason.)

Xenos have to obey the queen. They have no option to mutiny, which is fine and appropriate.

The problem comes in that the queen is an unrobust idiot 75% of the time, and because aliens have to obey, giving advice is going to be met with "I am your queen, I always know best."

This delays the game, and in the event the idiot queen dies (which often happens multiple times in a game) the only larvae available are either random players that joined, recent xeno deaths, or the same stupid queen.

The problem we run into with both xeno and marine leadership is that in real life there's a certain amount of meritocracy involved, and it would be impossible to get stupidity on the level we see in many matches.


Stupid queens also delay a round, sometimes by hours due to giving bad orders. Last night a queen delayed a round 90 minutes because she would not stop worrying about getting hosts, giving marines nearly an hour to fortify the sulaco. Had we just gone up, something I had suggested, the round would've ended much earlier in the same way.

A xeno player who stays as a drone can leverage the drone's advantages, and in the event that a queen dies the game won't drag. Admins have intervened before in a match where a queen has absolutely no clue what is going on, or D/Cs, because otherwise xeno team is fucked and there's no fun or challenge for marines.


I totally get where you're coming from, but my perspective is that a drone has worthwhile advantages over a hivelord, and there is a very high risk of getting not just one, but multiple dumbshit queens in a single match. Unlike marines who not only can depose a useless CO but designate any other marine to take their place, xenos are limited in who can step up and become queen. Keeping a drone as a drone helps things go a lot smoother and end rounds faster, particularly in low pop situations where hosts have stopped popping (which is always a wierd RP position for xenos).


The reality of this gamemode, is that we have huge skill differences between the best players and the worst players, and I think a 6 man squad of the best marines/xenos would have a greater impact than an entire team of the average skill player. Getting a bad queen is a leading cause of 3+ hour rounds, and multiple bad queens are a major reason rounds go 4+ hours, in my experience.

[Lostmixup]

I'd like it if the hivelord could put down special resin that had 2x the health of the normal kind, but maybe costed slightly more to put down.

[Toroic]

I'd like it if the hivelord could put down special resin that had 2x the health of the normal kind, but maybe costed slightly more to put down.

Even if you doubled the cost, plasma costs are just a factor of time, and hivelord plasma regen is crazy fast. Unless you're constantly building it is very difficult to run out.

[apophis775]

The problem we run into with both xeno and marine leadership is that in real life there's a certain amount of meritocracy involved, and it would be impossible to get stupidity on the level we see in many matches.

You would be SO SURPRISED in the Military.

[Caryl]

I remember the hivelords we had Pre-Alpha, we had something like this... Their resin structures are different looking and has added benefits.

[Azmodan412]

I play hivelord often, as the suggestion says, and right now, they are a glorified drone.